RWC2011 quater final: Wales v Ireland

First topic message reminder :

let the speculation begin.

and a poll. feel free to change your mind as the week goes on.

this is going to be wales' biggest game for a long time, well since the samoa game. it is too close for comfort. either team can win.

my welsh xxii
geth, bennett, adam
awj,chartris
lydiate (fingers crossed he's fit if not ryan) warbs,faletau
phillips,jones
shane, roberts,williams,north
byrne
burnes, james, brad, ryan (but if he starts instead of lyds powell on bench), williams, hook (if fit, if not priestland), 1/2p

All I do know is that on paper, this match should be an absolute corker. what time's it on?

We'll need Lydiate back to make a real fight of the backrow Stand, with him there, he gives Warbs a lot more room to work. Protecting the ball at the breakdown has been a bit of a problem area for us though, so I've no doubt Ireland will target that.

What I like is the fact that Welsh fans are not dismissing Ireland's chances and the reason for that is that we believe in our team.
Worried fans will try and convince themselves that the opposition is not very good

i am going for ireland based on a few 'bigger' games recently.

but i dont think this match is worth any sort of punt eitherway. gonna be great from a neutral

To close to call. Id have

Jenkins
Bennett (burns had his best 20today though)
Jones
Awj
Chatteris
Lydaite (only if 100%)
warburton
Faletau
Phillips
Hook or Preistland (altho his kicking out of hands rubbish)
Shane
Robberts
Davis
North
Halfpenny (byrne was average v very poor opposition)

James, burn, Davies, jones, Williams, jones/preistland, sc Williams

Cari its on at 6am aaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Posibilities - go out Friday night and stay out????

Muffy - you could do that, but then I woudn't recommend drinking too much booze cause you don't want to fall asleep or be too pished to watch the match. Red Bulls all round I think....or you can be a boring fart like me, and go to bed at 9 o'clock and get up bright and early

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

mckay1402 wrote: Wales are a lot stronger all over the paddock than australia.

This is the Tri-nation champions and one of the pre-tournament favourites? And Wales who came 4th (after a controversial win in one game) in a NH competition of 6?

Not getting a little carried away are we...

Being the 3N champs doesn't automatically class them as better in every department. Last time Wales faced the full Aussie compliment in the scrum we took them apart, never saw such a one-sided contest before then. And that was with the same set of forwards that should start on Saturday, including the real Lions (Geth and Adam) and not the "should be" Lions (Healy and Ross).

I'm not saying that the scrum is a dead cert in our favour but people often forget that this front row has never really failed to deliver. Feel free to object but just if you do name the last time Jenkins and Jones together were bested.

Only my opinion but our first choice pack will give you a sterner test than that of the Wallabies.

Cari wrote:Muffy - you could do that, but then I woudn't recommend drinking too much booze cause you don't want to fall asleep or be too pished to watch the match. Red Bulls all round I think....or you can be a boring fart like me, and go to bed at 9 o'clock and get up bright and early

Thats a distinct possibility + + + + + + +

+ a few captain Morgans should do the trick

on paper id say the front rows are pretty evenly matched and at scrum time you may see penalties won (or given away depending on your view) by both sides,

i think that DOC and POC offer more in terms of carrying than wyn jones and charteris (assuming it those two) i think the irish lineout will function as it always does. The question for wales is what they decide to do, if they use the same tactics as against SA (which in my opinion we must do) and keep the linout options simple and towards the front we shouldnt have many problems in this area, it seems as soon as we start trying to throw back balls bennett comes under pressure

back rows are simple for me, the irish will gain more yards the welsh will win more turnovers, the problem is tho, i believe the irish will defend against us as they did against oz, with their 'choke' style tackling, if we dont try and counter this with close support players and offloads then thats slow ball and we cant get our strike runners into the game,

half backs are much of a muchness, having phillips will help against that irish back row

centres, heres where i think wales have upper hand need to get roberts running down 10-12 channel however this depends on good possession

back three, both sides very good and evenly matched, little worried bout wales at fb,

tbh as has been said either side can win it, but for me wales need to play as they did against SA to have a chance of winning, they wont 'out-last' or 'out-fitness' the irish plus they know how to keep the scoreboard ticking over,

for me it boils down to one area, the lineout, if wales can have the lineout success they did against SA they will win, if not we get our ball slowed down and the irish will grind us down to victory, on this area my heart says we can do it, my head is 50-50

I don't think it will be decided by the line out, I think it will be decided by the team who doesn't go to sleep in defense.

It will probably be a very dull battle of attrition.

Like the Italian match its a game Ireland should win. We beat welsh teams consistently in the league and hc. On the international front after Italy we have the highest win ratio against them in the last 20+ years. Individually wales have some good players however as a team i think ireland are better balanced. In addition we have just beaten the 3ns champions.

Wales can win the game but I think this Irish team know what its about, this is hc knock out territory and 13 of the starting 15 have been in that zone 4out of the last five years . Plus they have a coach who has done it with this team, munster and dont forget he is the only irish coach to win a world cup.

Plus with the Irish crowd who will be there its going to be a home game for us

Comparing this to playing in the Pro12 or HC is rather pointless.

there's a point Cymro in that they'll have a better knock out competition mentality and experience, but we've been playing knock out rugby since the SA match, so maybe that'll be enough for us. I dunno. Ireland do have advantges over us, whether or not it's enough to make the difference...I really can't tell.

True but i did include our record in the 6Ns. Ireland expects rather than Ireland hopes..we should win. Whether we do or not depends more on how Ireland play than Wales . If we play as well as we can we will win regardless of what Wales do

If the winners of the HC or league were all Irish and played for the same club then yes there would be a point there.

I see Wales winning this,
Ireland will rightfully go in a favourites they topped their group and beat a tri nation team but beyond rumbling the ball forward and kicking for touch they don't bring anything else to the game,
Wales will use the offloading game to keep the Irish back row honest and guessing and once they are taken out if the occasion the Irish backs will just be speed bumps for the Welsh backs.

The Irish scrum will struggle but the Line out will be good so Wales must give O'Gara or Sexton hell and stop them from steering the Irish ship around the park,
Wales must keep the ball in play for long periods because the Irish tight five rely on kicks for touch for rests and to take on Water this way gaps will appear around the ruck for Mike Philips to exploit.

When the Irish have the ball Wales will find it comfortable because its just pick and carry from the big boys and the flyhalf stands far to deep for the backs to worry them.

BRING IT.

View...must be the worst analysis of the current irish team ever. Very funny though

Yep because you don't agree with it, it surely must be wrong.
England showed it in the warm up game muscle up in forwards and play some nice offloads with long periods of ball in play and the Irish are left grasping shadows.

Cymroglan wrote:Comparing this to playing in the Pro12 or HC is rather pointless.

Hardly irrelevant... these guys will have met face to face on numerous occasions by this stage. And the Irish players have, in general (given that the majority of Irish come from the Leinster/Munster axis), gone into those games with a history and expectation of winning AND come away from them more often than not on top.

True, most of that history is left behind when they walk on the pitch... but not all of it. For example ROG has a history of turning games in the last minutes at club and international level... and Leinster have recently shown the same in the HC final. That will surely stand to them if they're in a tough game come 60m mins.

Hook meanwhile might well be thinking of those misses against the Saffers!

Not sure I'd have used ROG as an example of turning a ggame on it's head.....

Seriously though Nos, I think you do have a point, the experience Ireland have here could be key to them winning. It might only make a 1% difference but in a game that's looking to be so close, that could be enough for you guys.

View Nothing to do with disagreeing with it (although i do) but because everything in it is completely wrong when compared to the last three games

rugbydreamer wrote:Not sure I'd have used ROG as an example of turning a ggame on it's head.....

Can't disagree there... ROG could either win this game by steering the game with his cool head and slotting the winning kick... OR he could be the weak link that allows the welsh break the gameline too often.

Wonder who Kidney is going to start at 10???

Feel so proud of the professional commited approach from Wales.These boys are focussed and confident in their skills.They were disappointed not to beat SA and are desperate to put that right in the Final.
BOD,POC and Darcy were great players.Time has moved on.ROG can still kick.Will that be enough?I doubt it.
Youth will prevail.
Talk of Provincial glory is laughable as, unless you are England,Johnny Foreigner mercenaries dont come into it.
It will be tough but I can only see one winner.

These young Welsh lads have no fear, All week we were told that Fiji would be our bogey side because they did well against us the last time the two sides met but they were blown away today.
What we have now is a confident bunch of young guys selected because they are on form if Ireland are going to beat us then you really will need to be on top of your game.
Knowing how to close out games is one thing being able to implement it is another story.

Youth will prevail ? I disntictly remember this type of talk before the SA game .look how that turned out

I hope priestland starts for wales. Cos if you think rog can be flaky ..

Backline much more fluent with rog playing...his defence is never an issue except to some of the blue rinsed brigade.

Bullsbok why are you so critical of Wales? I thought the game between us was brilliant and you have a very good chance of going all the way.

I'm not critical of Wales i just said i remember the same talk? Referring to Irish Legends ROG BOD and POC being percievd as past it

View,our scrum will struggle and our pack are unfit? One thing that has surprised me is that we have kept the intensity up for our key games. It was incredibly tough to do it today wat with less oxegen and everything. This Irihs team are physical,Bowe,D'Arce are big fellas and Kearney and Bod aren't exactly slouches. You will probably meet Conor Murray for the first time aswell. He is like a Mike Phillips copy.(impressed with Phillips recently,smoother passing)

"Youth will prevail"

Willful brash ignorance more like. I just hope some of the Welsh players spout off in a similar manner about BOD, POC, etc all being past it. That is just about the final ingredient we need. There's nothing we "provincials" like more than this kinda stuff... Like many before you, I'd say ye are in for a rude awakening as regards the "auld fellas" in big games!

And the only reason Welsh posters (who seem to be grasping at every possible straw!) are not talking about "provincial glory" is that they have none to spout on about!

DOD wrote:Plus with the Irish crowd who will be there its going to be a home game for us

There's been a lot of support for the Welsh at their games too

Wales have been playing some fantastic rugby during this tournament infact some of the best i have seen them play for a long time.

I just think that Ireland have the dogidness to win tight games and be able to close out any Wales attack.

For me i am going for an Irleand win. But i will not be trying to predict what the score will be, i think it will be a close game though.

You can't talk up Leinster and Munster as reasons why the Irish will win because Isa Necawa and co don't play for Ireland.

Wales will win and do it convincingly Ireland are going to witness the fitness.

BELIEVE.

Good luck Ireland but I for one am leaving this thread.

Thomond. Murray will be vetter than mikey. Phillips likes to dominate physically. But once negated he is ineffective. Tol always dominated him murray will do the same.

Ireland have been to the same camp Wales have numerous times. Trust me these guys are ready. We have guys playing on one leg for Ireland,they're committed to the cause and willing to do it for the jersey. I believe we can do the business.


Dod,he will be over time next Saturday I don't know if he will be.

view mate come off it, if you think we are simply going to 'outlast' ireland with our fitness your in for a shock!

This is a dream QF. If we don't make it I'll be supporting the Welsh all the way.

Wales are in fantastic form, the best I've seen 2008. Super fit and super confident and Warburton is a future lions captain I'm sure.

However as one of the most cynical Irish supporters on here I can only say that I bought my Ireland replica jersey today and I plan to be wearing for a few more weeks yet .

Believe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjjpBb9q1PA

Murray will start. He is no1 now..regardless of whether its sexton or rog

Bullsbok wrote:I'm not critical of Wales i just said i remember the same talk? Referring to Irish Legends ROG BOD and POC being percievd as past it

Do you seriously think that they have not reached their peak yet?Havent their performances been on the decline?I'll have a pint of what you are drinking.
SA are World Champions.You narrowly beat Wales.Ireland are certainly not World Champions.

DOD, with all due respect I disagree with a lot of what you say. ROG's defence is and has been an issue for years, the Irish side is however tactically intelligent enough not to call on him too often in defence, especially not in one on one situations.

Saying it'll depend on how Ireland play and not in the slightest on how Wales play is disrespectful and untrue. Having said that you are passionately biased in Ireland's favour just as I am in Wales' favour. As was said earlier there's so little a gap between these two sides on current form that almost every non-neutral supporter is predicting with their heart and not their head. I'd say that playing as well as we did today will be enough, though the Irish will undoubtedly say similar.

With all the objectivity and neutral analysis I can muster I'd say Ireland were always deservedly going to be slight favourites after the Australia game. There really isn't many a solid area in this game that couldn't swing either way. It really depends on who has more bottle on the day and who takes their chances better.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:I'm not critical of Wales i just said i remember the same talk? Referring to Irish Legends ROG BOD and POC being percievd as past it

Do you seriously think that they have not reached their peak yet?Havent their performances been on the decline?I'll have a pint of what you are drinking.
SA are World Champions.You narrowly beat Wales.Ireland are certainly not World Champions.

Fortunately for Wales they wont be going into the game thinking that cause if they were they'd get a rude awakening .

Ah I knew everyone was being to nice, so we have a Taff/Paddy alliance after the game, now by late evening were starting to be snide and pick holes at each other.
God help us by next Sunday!

AlynDavies wrote:Ah I knew everyone was being to nice, so we have a Taff/Paddy alliance after the game, now by late evening were starting to be snide and pick holes at each other.
God help us by next Sunday!

Good thing the game is on Saturday then!

Bullsbok wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:I'm not critical of Wales i just said i remember the same talk? Referring to Irish Legends ROG BOD and POC being percievd as past it

Do you seriously think that they have not reached their peak yet?Havent their performances been on the decline?I'll have a pint of what you are drinking.
SA are World Champions.You narrowly beat Wales.Ireland are certainly not World Champions.

Fortunately for Wales they wont be going into the game thinking that cause if they were they'd get a rude awakening .

Of course they wont they will prepare for the Ireland's great as if they were in their pomp.Simples.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:I'm not critical of Wales i just said i remember the same talk? Referring to Irish Legends ROG BOD and POC being percievd as past it

Do you seriously think that they have not reached their peak yet?Havent their performances been on the decline?I'll have a pint of what you are drinking.
SA are World Champions.You narrowly beat Wales.Ireland are certainly not World Champions.

Ahhhhh... now I see why your so confident! Coz you don't have a clue what you're talking about! You seem to be confusing youth, exhuberance and speed with gameplay skill and talent.

BOD may be slower than ever before... Darc may be slower than ever before... POC's knees may be more bandy than they've ever been before... But what you have missed is that with the new introductions this is now by far the best Irish combination ever to be assembled on the pitch. Hardly even comparable with the Irish teams of a few years back.

BOD and Darc are probably the best defensive centre partnership around. The back row are a phenomenon. Our scrum is now competitive with the best. We have two out halfs that can completely transform the game if things are going wrong. POC and ROG have proven themselves inspirational beyond their age (hence the problem for the much younger Sexton). etc, etc...

And I seem to remember a certain English team were filled with OAPs when they brushed all and sundry aside.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:I'm not critical of Wales i just said i remember the same talk? Referring to Irish Legends ROG BOD and POC being percievd as past it

Do you seriously think that they have not reached their peak yet?Havent their performances been on the decline?I'll have a pint of what you are drinking.
SA are World Champions.You narrowly beat Wales.Ireland are certainly not World Champions.

Ahhhhh... now I see why your so confident! Coz you don't have a clue what you're talking about! You seem to be confusing youth, exhuberance and speed with gameplay skill and talent.

BOD may be slower than ever before... Darc may be slower than ever before... POC's knees may be more bandy than they've ever been before... But what you have missed is that with the new introductions this is now by far the best Irish combination ever to be assembled on the pitch. Hardly even comparable with the Irish teams of a few years back.

BOD and Darc are probably the best defensive centre partnership around. The back row are a phenomenon. Our scrum is now competitive with the best. We have two out halfs that can completely transform the game if things are going wrong. POC and ROG have proven themselves inspirational beyond their age (hence the problem for the much younger Sexton). etc, etc...

And I seem to remember a certain English team were filled with OAPs when they brushed all and sundry aside.

It seems to be catching!

viewtothegym wrote:You can't talk up Leinster and Munster as reasons why the Irish will win because Isa Necawa and co don't play for Ireland.

Wales will win and do it convincingly Ireland are going to witness the fitness.

BELIEVE.

Remind me who that mercenary Tommy Bowe plays for

Munster & Leinster combined win/lose total against Welsh teams last season.

Irish teams won 14. Welsh teams won 4. One draw.
Conor Murray has never lost to a Welsh team yet! He second start was a great Munster win against Cardiff in Cardiff.