RWC2011 quater final: Wales v Ireland

First topic message reminder :

let the speculation begin.

and a poll. feel free to change your mind as the week goes on.

this is going to be wales' biggest game for a long time, well since the samoa game. it is too close for comfort. either team can win.

my welsh xxii
geth, bennett, adam
awj,chartris
lydiate (fingers crossed he's fit if not ryan) warbs,faletau
phillips,jones
shane, roberts,williams,north
byrne
burnes, james, brad, ryan (but if he starts instead of lyds powell on bench), williams, hook (if fit, if not priestland), 1/2p

If you negate a pack of forwards you negate a backline. Your backline can't get moving if they don't have clean ball. Also we had Cooper rattled.

Thomond wrote:9 against Fiji is pretty great though regardless of how awful they played

Did you see the game Thom? Fiji were playing some frankly bizarre stuff I really don't think it will offer any guide to next week's encounter.

But... to concede one point... I do think that Ireland would struggle to run in that many tries no matter how bad the opposition are playing.

Didn't Nos,will be watching the highlights later.

The thing about Australia is because they have a weak pack if you can disrupt half back ball they're pretty limited. Put pressure on Cooper and he plays like a 12 year old.

Wales are a lot stronger all over the paddock than australia. I think our front row is just superb. Our second row is definitely improving and our back row are nobodies mugs. SOB and Ferris are good but I think they will meet their superiors in Warbs and Lyds.


For all those above suggesting bringing Jones in for Priestland...Are you mad? Keep the backline as it was today and I I think Wales will have enough to score tries against Ireland.

mckay1402 wrote:The thing about Australia is because they have a weak pack if you can disrupt half back ball they're pretty limited. Put pressure on Cooper and he plays like a 12 year old.

Wales are a lot stronger all over the paddock than australia. I think our front row is just superb. Our second row is definitely improving and our back row are nobodies mugs. SOB and Ferris are good but I think they will meet their superiors in Warbs and Lyds.


For all those above suggesting bringing Jones in for Priestland...Are you mad? Keep the backline as it was today and I I think Wales will have enough to score tries against Ireland.

Gee one loss and people forget Australia are the 3N champs. Ireland played an Aussie pack without Pocock and Stephen Moore, best openside in the world and their first choice hooker.The full aussie pack that your suggesting is weak bullied the All black and Bok packs on their way to the 3N. and to suggest SOB and Ferris are inferior to Warbuton and Lydiate is just daft .O brien didnt win the ERC player of the year by accident.

mckay1402 wrote: Wales are a lot stronger all over the paddock than australia.

This is the Tri-nation champions and one of the pre-tournament favourites? And Wales who came 4th (after a controversial win in one game) in a NH competition of 6?

Not getting a little carried away are we...

Australia also lost to Samoa, with all due respect to Australia they don't look like a side that's just won the 3N South Africa and New Zealand are currently playing far better than them.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

mckay1402 wrote: Wales are a lot stronger all over the paddock than australia.

This is the Tri-nation champions and one of the pre-tournament favourites? And Wales who came 4th (after a controversial win in one game) in a NH competition of 6?

Not getting a little carried away are we...

Quite. It's amazing what wins over Namibia and Fiji will do for confidence. Or maybe it's the beer talking

Cymroglan wrote:Australia also lost to Samoa, with all due respect to Australia they don't look like a side that's just won the 3N South Africa and New Zealand are currently playing far better than them.

So SA are playing great because they beat Wales by 2 points (and should have lost if Hook had kicked his goals), fell over the line against Samoa and ripped apart a Fiji team that got flattened by everyone except Namibia.

Wales are great because they lost a game they should have won, scrambled a win against the Samoans and flattened a Fiji team that were already on the plane.

But the Oz are in terrible form because they lost one tight match to Ireland and flattened everyone else.

And Ireland are way behind because they won all their games but the Oz are "not all that"

Yep this is not "one-eyed" at all...

AlynDavies wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:Far too much soppy agreement on here. Time to focus on the disagreements.

Don't worry someone will slip up sooner or later, probably Miaow or GreyGhost then we will a real bítch fight going on, on this forum.

i hope for some lively debate but if any posters try and derail the thread with wumming or baiting posters off topic i will, um, i'll, umm...

well, you have been warned.

I'm glad you are confident in your team and thats to be expected.
I'm happy with how Wales are playing

try and focus on the game ahead. we are rapidly straying in to the x,y,z of international rugby; something i find quite pointless.

and, safeasmilk, the beer comment is clear baiting. naughty.

I'd like to think that Wales have been building very well, seem to have a great attitude at the moment, and some real strength in depth.

I think it will be a belter of a game, and being Welsh, I have to back Wales to win it.

Other than the experience, which I know is huge in tournaments is there much between the teams.

Some will say Ireland are stronger and better equipped because their Provinces have won the HC whilst our Regions haven't but we still one slams in 05 & 08 whilst Ireland had to wait even longr than us.

None pf the teams have ever got to the final of the WC yet with Wales getting to Semis in 87 and Ireland not having gone past the quarters, so neither have huge pedigree in the tournament really.

I think the game is honestly to close to call and a lot of posters, myself included will go with our hearts and pick our own side.

So Wales for me by 5

bedfordwelsh wrote:
I think the game is honestly to close to call and a lot of posters, myself included will go with our hearts and pick our own side.

Completely agreed. No room for reason in this one. Either team could bring the goods on the day.

But I'd still say it's 55-45 Ireland rather than 50-50 given our recent head-to-heads!

So by that logic ...Ireland by 5.

It's all going to come down to composure on the day, those little one off mistakes or not. The teams are that evenly matched across the pitch I feel. Such a tough one to call. I feel sorry for those officiating this match already!

Heart says Wales by 5, head says Ireland by 5, but I just don't know!

I hope Best is OK. Look at how the loss of their hooker effected Australia. The scrum and the lineout were well beaten by Ireland in the end. Cronin might step up and play well. But nobody knows for sure. He's never even played a Heineken Cup match.

no but Cronin has played in the 6 Nations hasn't he?

Besides you're better off then we are. If Bennet is injured we've got Burns who only started playing hooker last season, or Owens who only got his first ever cap for Wales last week.

I do hope for his sake though, that Best is okay.

Feck,

What are your back up hookers like, I guess they are in theory 3rd n 4th choice now what with Flannery out to?

rugby,

I thought Burns has done ok, line out has been bit loose but has good work rate and took his try well today

Of the surviving NH nations in this world's world cup, Wales and Ireland have shown the best form. But in the 6N England were the strongest, and in the warm-up games France were the most impressive. England have the world-cup pedigree and are past-masters at winning ugly. France have the most talented players. Ireland have the experience. Wales are improving the fastest.

Bottom lime - much too hard to call.

But a big thank you to Ireland for ensuring NH representation in the final.

Highlights are on now, Fiji have been pathetic, An under-15 team would get a bollocking if they defended like that!

Warburton is a better all-rounder than O'Brien tbh, the latter may try to intimidate with brute strength and fitness but Warbs is better at the breakdown and has decent power himself. Based on recent form I'd say Faletau is capable of matching Heaslip. I'd give Ferris the edge over Lydiate or Jones but if Lydiate is fit it'll be a war, at least if you can't say that about the back rows already.

Wales ought to do their best to give ROG/Sexton a torrid time, worked well enough in March.

Wales have had the edge in the scrum in the past but this time it'll be more even, just maybe unless Best misses out.

D'Arcy and BOD will have to up their game if Roberts is fit (please ffs), he's linking up increasingly well with those around him and his power speaks for itself.

Irish fans don't take that rant personally, it's been a while since I've been able to get this arrogant for a game of this magnitude and I'm not going to miss out now.

bedfordwelsh wrote:rugby,

I thought Burns has done ok, line out has been bit loose but has good work rate and took his try well today

aye he's done okay, but would you really want someone so inexperienced who's lineout is known to malfunction, start for us in such a tight QF? I reckon he'd be okay, but not great. I dunno, it's a tought one. He's v good in the scrum though I'll give him that.

rugby,

I think every single Welshman and Woman were dreading the thought of Bennett being our 1st choice before the tournament but fair play to him he's proved a lot of us wrong.

AGree with you that going into game with Burns and Ownes in the 22 I would be nervous.

Hopefully Bennett went off as precaution etc.

I know bedford, I'm still getting used to feeling confident with Bennett when he takes to the field. Guess one of the good thing about Burns is that at least he knows Charteris well so they can link up well in the match, that could help him.

I'm pretty sure Bennett's okay. Even if he can play juts a half that's better then not at all.

I am still not overly confident and do gets the attack of nerves at lineouts likewise whenever Powell is on the field but again he has played well and backed my point about him being best used as an impact player

aye I know that feeling bedford!

Just watching todays match again, can't get over how laid back Faletau appears to be when he's playing. Fair play to him though, he very rarely misses a tackle and does some super work at the breakdown.

Not sure he's the equal to Heaslip yet but he's such an exciting player. So much room for him to improve.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Feck,

What are your back up hookers like, I guess they are in theory 3rd n 4th choice now what with Flannery out to?

Cronin came as the Ireland 3rd choice hooker. Flannery is gone home. If Best is out too then Cronin is starting. He's played most of his rugby with Connacht so has no Heineken Cup experience. He's played bit parts at times for Ireland but has little test experience either. To be fair to him, he's great in the loose. Great ball carrier. Not sure, but he may be the fastest forward in the tournament. Wouldn't be far off it anyway.

But his throwing technique is suspect. He struggles at lineout sometimes. And with when it comes to the scrum, he simply hasn't had the match practice and understanding with the two Ireland props that Best has. Best is a particularly good scrummaging hooker. So he'll be a big loss there no matter who is replacing him.

Behind Cronin, Damian Varley has replaced Flannery. I think he has one cap as a substitute on the 2010 summer tour. If Best is ruled out of the World Cup I'm not sure who will replace him. Maybe Mike Sherry? I don't think he has any caps.

Warburton has never really struck me as a ball carrier though. First ruck you see Ferris on him and he won't want to know about it. That was the most pathetic performance I have ever seen from Fiji. 25 missed tackles according to Wales online. I'd say there was more!

We're in a similar situation back up wise then after our first choice hookers feckless

Thomond wrote:Warburton has never really struck me as a ball carrier though. First ruck you see Ferris on him and he won't want to know about it. That was the most pathetic performance I have ever seen from Fiji. 25 missed tackles according to Wales online. I'd say there was more!

Warburton is one of our best ball carriers, was in the 6 Nations and has carried that on in the wc. He's deceptively quick as well, so give him just a bit of space and he's gone. Underestimate that part of his game at your peril. Sure Ferris can put in the big hit, but Wales have an out and out 7 in Warburton, and that'll give us the edge at the breakdown. Mark my words

Ben Dirs "Celtic classic in the making" is a good read on the bbc website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bendirs/2011/10/celtic_classic_in_the_making.html

I particularly like as an Ireland fan how he sums up Warburton and O'Brien.

"Skipper and open-side flanker Sam Warburton looks to have pretty much the lot: he fetches, he links, he supports, he scores. He is top of the range alright, a limited edition model with bells and whistles as standard, made all the more remarkable by the fact he is only 22."

"If Warburton is top of the range with all the bells and whistles, Sean O'Brien is all that with added bullbars. The Kiwis cannot get enough of him - their commentating team appear to have settled on the adjective 'colossal', and the feeling over here is that the Leinster open-side is a front-runner for player of the tournament."

Dreamer I was open to correction on Warburton. A great young player and one we need to hit hard and early. Hopefully take him out of the game.

T, I know you're on a wind up, but that's a disgusting attitude to take.

Warburton is superb and he just keeps getting better. I remember back in the AI's when we played Australia and he all but nullified Pocock, and to see how much he's improved as well....

I know the backrow of Ireland are big units, but they don't have that stand out player who really knows how to jackle the ball superbly etc. I think in that particular aspect of backrow play Warbs gives us the edge, although Ireland obviosuly win in the ball carrying stakes.

Dreamer.... I'm thinking you're jumping to the wrong conclusion there! Thomond was surely saying that we have to hit him hard in the sense of intimidating him with the physical presence of SOB and Ferris - so that he can't get a foothold on his fetching game. Nothing to do with injurying him...

(at least that's what I'm hoping he meant?)

ha aye just read it back and think perhaps you're right. First instance of reading it though it looks pretty bad!

Sorry T, my bad there.

Just think Ireland might be a bit too good for Wales, but this Welsh team have a lot of class..................what a great chance for both to get to a semi or even a final.........................

Nos,knows what I'm on about. If you hit a player hard and fair I don't think trying to take out a team's biggest threat is a big deal

40% Wales
59% Ireland

What happened the missing 1%?

Gotta love the welsh optimism. We might as well not turn up. The Irish backrow is not as good, the frontrow is not as good, our backs are lightweight. Wales apparently didnt lose to a badly performing boks, barely got past samoa and beat a disinterested fiji.

Ireland haven't beaten anyone of note and our performances arent great either. SOB clearly is not that good and we cant score tries.

Final score wales 555 ireland 3

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:40% Wales
59% Ireland

What happened the missing 1%?

It was me, undecided.

DOD wrote:Gotta love the welsh optimism. We might as well not turn up. The Irish backrow is not as good, the frontrow is not as good, our backs are lightweight. Wales apparently didnt lose to a badly performing boks, barely got past samoa and beat a disinterested fiji.

Ireland haven't beaten anyone of note and our performances arent great either. SOB clearly is not that good and we cant score tries.

Final score wales 555 ireland 3

Irish penalty on the 79th minute to avoid a whitewash

France will get through from their match, and there's no point in Ireland playing them cause they'll lose, so it's better if you're knocked out of the QFs sooner rather than later isn't it? You can thank Wales after the match...

Just looked at my Croke Park prog from 2010 - only 5 of the Wales starters yesterday started then. Warbs for instance on the bench. Ireland now much as then. So no good comparing the past. We have moved on.

Front row - Ireland. Healy and Ross are probably the Lions props at the moment

Second row - Ireland superman is back to his best

Back row - Ireland - probably the best unit in the world now although cant wait to see SOB v Warburton

Half Backs - Sqaure

Centres - Wales but Darcy is recovering form

Three quarters - Square - Bowe Earls Keaney v Bynre North Williams - great line up

Bottom line is packs win matches and Ireland have a stronger pack

Seriously, is POC all right? I know his hamstring injury was giving him jip today.

I don't agree with you on the front row BM, but I do on the 2nd and backrows.

Tis two very, very even teams.

We havent played agaisnt a top class fetcher yet so we will have to see how it goes but to be honest one of the features of this ireland team has been the clearing our, particularly our backrow.

Anyone who has seen Ferris and SOB hit rucks in the RWC will know they are taking all and sundry out of them. I would be surprised if Warburton will be as effective with Ferris and SOB barrelling into him at each ruck. It will be an interesting battle though