your Wales 22 to play Ireland

First topic message reminder :

This is the hardest team selection Gatland has had to make with several players staking real claims for the jerseys and with less injury problems than usual, the hardest decision for me would be who to go with at full-back, if we stick with Lee Byrne then surely North and Halfpenny should start on the wings especially with Priestland not being the best long-range goal-kicker i'd think HP could come in handy but then where does that leave Shane?

also Hook is not a FB and whenever Wales have selected him there we've always seemed to lack that attacking cutting edge and failed to win games we could have won, i would be dissapointed if Wales select Hook at 15 or at this point even in the starting team as hes not a better centre or fly-half than Priestland, Roberts, JD or Sc. Williams at the moment, the question is do we take a gamble with HP at FB out of his familiar role and have Shane and North on the wings or do we go with a natural FB in Byrne and drop our top try-scorer in the history of Welsh rugby?

for me i think i'd go with:

1. Jenkins
2. Bennett
3. Jones
4. AW-Jones
5. Charteris
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. Roberts
13. J.Davies
14. Halfpenny
15. Byrne

16. Burns
17. P.James
18. B.Davies
19. R.Jones
20. L.Williams
21. S.Jones
22. Sh. Williams

personally i dont think i could select HP at FB now after giving him limited time in the 15 jersey already but i'd have Shane on the bench so that if Byrne appeared to be playing out of form then i could still be able to make the switch at some point in the game however i cant find room for Hook in the side as we may need Stephen Jones to come on to control the game for us at some point

what would you go with?

TycroesOsprey wrote:Hello FHF up late this evening,

I think Hook is supremely talented but not good enough at OH where Priestland deserves his spot and Wellies is a better option to bring on at 10 to close out a game.

Not effective enough at 15 and Halfpenny or Byrne can both do a better job there. Best at outside centre but Williams and JD are both better defensively and Sc W is scoring tries for fun. I would however like to see him picked here for Wales but if it aint broke dont fix it.

However probably the best most instinctive broken field runner we have other than Shane who also might miss out. Hooks big boot and goal kicking will be missed but Priestland showed against FIJI hes ready for the responsibility, lets hope Byrne can start finding some accuracy kicking from hand

Tycroes my old mucker .............. how are you?

Two things

1. I would say a certain George North might question you on the most instinctive broken field runner, and even a certain Scott Williams. But you are correct his talent is for instinctive running and his hand off

2. If Shane is fit and on form, he would be first on my team sheet, still can make the tries possible, and on top form still is world class.

ps I have really enjoys Wales in the WC so far, and now my team is out I am supporting the boys in red

Bench needs 4 forwards, in my view. Back row battle is going to be brutal, but so is the second row. Ryan Jones, Bradley, Burns, James - all needed.

No Wellies needed to "control the game."

If we are ahead with 15 to go, stick with the backs on the field.

If we are a score or two behind, bring on the game-breakers.

samuraidragon wrote:Bench needs 4 forwards, in my view. Back row battle is going to be brutal, but so is the second row. Ryan Jones, Bradley, Burns, James - all needed.

No Wellies needed to "control the game."

If we are ahead with 15 to go, stick with the backs on the field.

If we are a score or two behind, bring on the game-breakers.

if we need gamebreakers then i think a 4 back strategy might be better with ryan to cover lock and 6/8. Means we can have the likes of jd2, hook, Byrne, Half/Shane for impact

A 3 forward bench is a bit risky in my view. Lydiate may well need to come off, so then the cupboard would be bare in the case of an injury in 2nd /back row.

Of course there's always the Hook to number 8 option....

i'd laugh if i thought you were joking! Bet hook would jump at it given the chance. perhaps Shane as wing 9 cover then? Still think we might see 4 backs.

samuraidragon wrote:Bench needs 4 forwards, in my view. Back row battle is going to be brutal, but so is the second row. Ryan Jones, Bradley, Burns, James - all needed.

No Wellies needed to "control the game."

If we are ahead with 15 to go, stick with the backs on the field.

If we are a score or two behind, bring on the game-breakers.

Samurai

Two myths about your gamebreakers

1. Wales scored 5 tries in 60 mins before Jones comes on, thats 1 try per 12 mins, then they scored 4 tries in the next 20 mins that 1 try per 5 mins that certainly tells the story, plus Jones had a conversion and out of hand kicking of ratio 100%. Now I would say he deffo was a calculated gamebreaker plus great defence..........wouldn't you agree......probably not eh because you want him out of the 22!...beggars belief

2. Your view of a player who is a gamebreaker is what others see as a Supsrfluous risk taker, plus of course he has shown very little of that gamebreaking recently, look at the Samoa game, how it changed when Halfpenny came on. But most importantly against Ireland you have to be positionally aware, and defensively strong. No mavericks please Ireland will tear you apart........calculated gamebreakers, not headless chicken risk takers.

Gatland your know how well your side has gelled and been so much more potent over the last two games........smell the coffee

How do you mean Wellies had a "out of hand ratio of 100%"? He kicked away possession on a couple of occasions, straight to the Fijian full-back. And he was poor against Namib, gifting an interception try to a Namib forward who read it like a book even though the guy's an amateur rugby player!

I'll smell the coffee when you stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking...

samuraidragon wrote:How do you mean Wellies had a "out of hand ratio of 100%"? He kicked away possession on a couple of occasions, straight to the Fijian full-back. And he was poor against Namib, gifting an interception try to a Namib forward who read it like a book even though the guy's an amateur rugby player!

I'll smell the coffee when you stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking...

fhf, you need to go to casualty and get that wood you have for Jones looked at

15-9 Halfpenny, North, Davies, Roberts, Brew, Jones, Phillips
1-8 James, Bennet, Jones, Jones, Charteris, Jones, Warburton (c) Faletau
16-22 Jenkins, Byrne, Bevington, Powell, L Williams, Hook, Shane Williams.

Brew is the unexpected choice who gives the Irish regions grief week in week out. Shane is not fit and needs to be nursed. Would consider Scott Williams at 13. Hard on Priestland, but the Irish back row would decimate him. Alun Wyn can cover the back row and Ryan can cover second row meaning a full front row replacements. Lloyd Williams is the revelation of the competition for me and together with Powell, Hook and Shane should make an impact if they come on.

Ryan Jones over Dan Lydiate, Glas? Really?

Also, I can't agree that Priestland should make way for Wellies.

Lydiate isn't fit is he?

I'm sure I heard we've got a full squad to pick from.

Then yes I'd pick him with Jones replacing Powell on the bench. Priestland isn't up to the physicality of this match, even as a sub.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but this could well be Shane's last game for Wales - we have to play the guy given his record even though 1/2p is looking great.

Play both, 1/2p full back.

im surprised how every poster on here has put jenkins to start without even thinking,

is there no room for debate on the risk of putting him in in such a big game against a formidable opponent in Mike Ross? especially after only two games against limited opposition,

dont get me wrong a fully fit gethin jenkins is nearing world class, and he looked and is very good in the loose against namibia and fiji,

however hes there to do a job at scrum time first and foremost and against Mike Ross he will find it tough,

in adition to this paul james has not put a foot wrong in a welsh jersey and IMO is a slightly better scrummager than jenkins,

is it not worthy of a discussion on who should be played here rather than just assuming of the back of two very good performances against lesser opposition geth should walk back into the side?

flyhalffactory wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Hello FHF up late this evening,

I think Hook is supremely talented but not good enough at OH where Priestland deserves his spot and Wellies is a better option to bring on at 10 to close out a game.

Not effective enough at 15 and Halfpenny or Byrne can both do a better job there. Best at outside centre but Williams and JD are both better defensively and Sc W is scoring tries for fun. I would however like to see him picked here for Wales but if it aint broke dont fix it.

However probably the best most instinctive broken field runner we have other than Shane who also might miss out. Hooks big boot and goal kicking will be missed but Priestland showed against FIJI hes ready for the responsibility, lets hope Byrne can start finding some accuracy kicking from hand

Tycroes my old mucker .............. how are you?

Two things

1. I would say a certain George North might question you on the most instinctive broken field runner, and even a certain Scott Williams. But you are correct his talent is for instinctive running and his hand off

2. If Shane is fit and on form, he would be first on my team sheet, still can make the tries possible, and on top form still is world class.

ps I have really enjoys Wales in the WC so far, and now my team is out I am supporting the boys in red

Georgie still has weaknesses with his game that nobody seems to have exploited yet, Im not sure why. His kick return game is non existant, both Hook and Byrne have been quick to come accross recieve his pass and kick. His defensive positioning is still a work in progress, 1 on 1 tackles is not a problem hes strong and has good technique but his positioning needs improvement. Ireland would do well kicking over his head forcing him to turn and put pressure on him and the full back forcing him to return.

TycroesOsprey wrote: Ireland would do well kicking over his head forcing him to turn and put pressure on him and the full back forcing him to return.

Cheers, I just emailed this to ROG

Whilst he may not have the best kick return, having Byrne, Hook or Halfpenny around to kick it back makes it less of an issue. Plenty of back 3 players dont handle being turned well but thats why the back 3 have to be a unit. Shane Williams has never had a good kicking game but its rarely been an issue. If he cant run it back because of good chasers then he will and has used others around him and he's alrady shown he can beat the first man or hold off from going to ground so it may end up that it needs a phase of play and lose 10 yards but what he offers elsewhere makes up for that.

roddersm wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote: Ireland would do well kicking over his head forcing him to turn and put pressure on him and the full back forcing him to return.

Cheers, I just emailed this to ROG

Im sure Declan has already sussed this out Rodders.

It's worth remembering that we'll be playing (probably) against one of the best tactical kickers in the game.

In the last 6N game Hook out-O'gara-ed O'gara and got a man of the match.

Gatland is unlikely to forget that.

scoi wrote:Whilst he may not have the best kick return, having Byrne, Hook or Halfpenny around to kick it back makes it less of an issue. Plenty of back 3 players dont handle being turned well but thats why the back 3 have to be a unit. Shane Williams has never had a good kicking game but its rarely been an issue. If he cant run it back because of good chasers then he will and has used others around him and he's alrady shown he can beat the first man or hold off from going to ground so it may end up that it needs a phase of play and lose 10 yards but what he offers elsewhere makes up for that.

Its not that he hasnt got the best kick return, his kick return is absolutly woeful. As you say thats fine if Halfpenny or Byrne are covering and he has time to make the inside pass. However Byrnes kick from hand is hit and miss and as you say Shanes is weak. That leaves us with a back three that are unlikely to play a kicking game which allows Irelands chase to be far more effective which in turn puts pressure on our kick recievers. A loose kick will allow Bowe, Bod, Darcy etc to really attack. Shane and North are our best two attacking wings but in the same side it leaves a glaring weakness in our defence and its defences that win world cups.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

scoi wrote:Whilst he may not have the best kick return, having Byrne, Hook or Halfpenny around to kick it back makes it less of an issue. Plenty of back 3 players dont handle being turned well but thats why the back 3 have to be a unit. Shane Williams has never had a good kicking game but its rarely been an issue. If he cant run it back because of good chasers then he will and has used others around him and he's alrady shown he can beat the first man or hold off from going to ground so it may end up that it needs a phase of play and lose 10 yards but what he offers elsewhere makes up for that.

Its not that he hasnt got the best kick return, his kick return is absolutly woeful. As you say thats fine if Halfpenny or Byrne are covering and he has time to make the inside pass. However Byrnes kick from hand is hit and miss and as you say Shanes is weak. That leaves us with a back three that are unlikely to play a kicking game which allows Irelands chase to be far more effective which in turn puts pressure on our kick recievers. A loose kick will allow Bowe, Bod, Darcy etc to really attack. Shane and North are our best two attacking wings but in the same side it leaves a glaring weakness in our defence and its defences that win world cups.

I think the Namibians wanted to exploit North's lack of a kicking game...it didnt end well.

Yeah, but we're not playing Namib semi-pros now, but the best tactical kicker in the NH.

My team would be

1. Gethin
2. Bennet
3. Adam
4. AWJ
5. Charteris
6. Lyds
7. Warbs Capt
8. Toby
9. Mike
10. Priestland
11. Shane
12. JR
13. JD2
14. North
15. Byrne

REps

16. PJ
17. Burns
18. Davies
19. Ryan
20. Lloyd
21. Hook
22. Scott

I'm with the Capo di tutti frutti on that 22, except I'd have Halfpenny at least on the bench.

I'd love to have Halfpenny as FB and keep Shane as 11, but I worry with ROG dropping kicks on the FBs head and really putting the pressure on, we'll need an out and out FB and as much height as we can get in the back 3.

I'd pick a back 3 of LB, GN, LH - I think halfpenny has been playing great rugby and has the added benefit of a monster boot - and think how scary it will be for the Irish to face having Shane coming on once the game has broken up.

Centres have to be JD2 and Dr Bob, as they've worked very well together, look dangerous and are defensively very solid. Also feel it's a big risk to mess around a partnership and bring in a very inexperienced Williams (who I really like) for a QF.

Priestland wins the 10 race hands down, question is who do you put on the bench out of Jones or Hook - Jones has the experience and will be able to calm down the game and see out a win if needed, while Hook has the versatility and is a very good when the game has broken up - but I don't think we'll really need that with the attacking talent we already have in the team. Either, but I'm edging towards Jones.

Phillips I think to start to use his physicality to give the Irish backrow something to think about. L Williams to come on after 50/60 mins to speed things up.

I think the fowards pick themselves - and of course if you want to pick 3 fowards on the bench, then Geth can double as a 2nd row, an 8, a centre, a 10, a 15 in fact he's the new Hook!