Home nations team of the tournament so far

First topic message reminder :

15-9 Foden, North, BOD, Tuilagi, Earles, ROG, Phillips
1-8 Healy, Best, Ross, POC, AWJ, Ferris, Warburton, O'Brien
16-22 Jenkins, Thompson, Gray, Faletau, L Williams, Jones, Scott Williams.

Bench at best though no?

GavinDragon wrote:oakey the reason for the lack of english players in my team TO DATE is because the irish/welsh teams have played better opposition in their matches, with ireland beating all put in front of them and wales beating all except SA,

england have looked ordinary against both Arg and Scotland, im not saying you wont/cant go on to win the world cup r that england are useless, just saying tht on form so far in the tournament not many have really put their hands up to be included in this sort of team, at the end of the world cup if england had beaten NZ in the final i may change my outlook

So as you haven't mentioned Wales vs Samoa, i'm taking you think Wales did a number on them...

Wales won whilst underachieving. Whilst you may wish to believe otherwise the Scotland match was your A game on display.

Glas a du wrote:Bench at best though no?

Yes, wouldn't have him over 1F, so he'd have to compete with Kelly Brown & Dan Lydiate for the other 6 spot

Stokosch was your best player against England Asbo.

15.Kearney
14.Ashton
13.Tuliagi
12.Roberts
11.North
10.Priestland
9.Reddan

8.Haskell
7.O'Brien
6.Ferris
5.Palmer
4.O'Connell
3.Cole
2.Best
1.Stevens

Palmer -
Cole -
Stevens -

HEALY
BEST
COLE

GRAY
LAWES

FERRIS
WARBURTON
O'BRIEN

MURRAY
PREISTLAND

ASHTON
ROBERTS
TUILAGI
BOWE
FODEN


This will be the actual lions team in the next one if anyone is interested
Why
Cause i said so

now for the wc

healy
best
jones

gray
poc

ferris
warburton
o'brien

phillips
priestland

ashton
roberts
BOD
earls
kearney

If you think that was England's "A game", you clearly haven't watched much international rugby over the last year.

GavinDragon wrote:oakey the reason for the lack of english players in my team TO DATE is because the irish/welsh teams have played better opposition in their matches, with ireland beating all put in front of them and wales beating all except SA

So basically Wales lost to SA and squeaked past Samoa (ranked below both Argentina and Scotland) and then beat the worst side in the tournament (by far) and Fiji who were practically on the plane and have looked awful.

I really don't understand how Welsh fans are feeling so confident. Maybe it's just the a different set of standards?

EnglishReign wrote:If you think that was England's "A game", you clearly haven't watched much international rugby over the last year.

Oh yes I have!

Let them bask mate. It's good being the underdog

EnglishReign wrote:Let them bask mate. It's good being the underdog

That's a serious point. I think that suits Johnson's style better than being favourites. On the other hand, when did Ireland last cope well with the favourite tag? The HC final, really? Did you see the first half?

Sam Youngs seriously? I know you are biased but come on! Admittedly he played well in his cameo vs Argentina but he had an easy ride from the England pack

I said none of the scrum halfs had shone, I wouldn't be fussed with Blair going ahead of him but his high tempo style of game would suit the backrow and the fly half I've selected.

And i thought Ross Ford had a v good tournament in a crap team, certainly better than Thompson and Hartley

I'd forgotten about him, very true. He certainly played well against England.

POC was very good against italy. His carrying was as good as it has ever been. Flawless lineout too and one maul was collapsed by DOC and for another he wasnt on the pitch.

Got pinged in at the side for one on the half way line and the one in front of the try line that was eventually dragged down by DOC. Pretty sure he was on for the third one because I'm sure it was him that dragged it down. He plays close to the edge of the laws which I like but he was not as subtle as he should be and some of his shouting at the ref in that game made me lose a lot of respect for him.

genuinely not sure how Cole could be considered given the amount of penalties he conceded against argentina and Scotland. Deacon shouldnt make the england 2nd row over palmer (who is underrated) and Lawes.

Cole got pinged once maybe twice vs Scotland? The ref made up his mind early on that Stevens wasn't binding properly and then everything thereafter was Stevens fault (some rightly, some harshly), even when the Scots were wheeling. Deacon runs the lineout that's been working so well, adds the most to the scrum and does all the work in the tight that allows his second row colleague to drift further out and make carries etc. Not the best second row going but he is effective.

Glas a du wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Let them bask mate. It's good being the underdog

That's a serious point. I think that suits Johnson's style better than being favourites. On the other hand, when did Ireland last cope well with the favourite tag? The HC final, really? Did you see the first half?

Although that game also showed that they never know when they're beaten. Are they actually favourites for the QF game? Too close to call in my opinion.

Sam Youngs? SAM! It's Ben. You'll be calling Ferris Ian next!

EnglishReign wrote:

Glas a du wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Let them bask mate. It's good being the underdog

That's a serious point. I think that suits Johnson's style better than being favourites. On the other hand, when did Ireland last cope well with the favourite tag? The HC final, really? Did you see the first half?

Although that game also showed that they never know when they're beaten. Are they actually favourites for the QF game? Too close to call in my opinion.

They topped their group so they must be.

Healy
Ford
Cole
POC
Palmer
Ferris
Warburton
Haskell
Youngs
Priestland
Ashton
Roberts
Tuilagi
Bowe
Kearney

Glas a du wrote:Sam Youngs? SAM! It's Ben. You'll be calling Ferris Ian next!

Sam, Youngs....

Metal Tiger I presume we are talking about England squad not form home nations side! No English player, no not even the mighty tigers would get into a home nations form side. Ok maybe Tuilagi but that's debatable. Also is he English?

In regards to England I would pick Wigglesworth ahead of Youngs. Certainly based on Saturday's performance.

Judging the way Hodgson,Farrell and Barritt are playing the England management should pick at least one of them. MJ probably doesn't like them though for obvious reasons. Hodgson based on current form would be ahead of Wilkinson. Farrell could play at FH or inside centre. Barritt is a much better inside centre than Tindall,Hape of Banahan.

Strettle should be there instead of Bananaman.

Goode should have been in the squad too. No FB cover now because of Armitage's ban.

I am not complaining that much as recent results in the AP are showing, Saracens are having the last laugh. We have had 8 players missing at the world cup but you wouldn't be able to tell. Other international teams do appreciate our players.

Glas a du I was talking to the poster Sam about Youngs.

Right I see

formerly known as Sam wrote:Deacon runs the lineout that's been working so well, adds the most to the scrum and does all the work in the tight that allows his second row colleague to drift further out and make carries etc. Not the best second row going but he is effective.

True, fkaSam, but I thought it was Palmer who made a huge difference when he came on against Scotland - at last England were secure at the set-piece on their own possession, whereas previously they'd struggled at lineouts

beshocked, I'm sorry but how on earth were you ever going to find room for Goode in the squad? you don't need THREE FBs in a 30 man squad, that would be sheer lunacy. Especially when you consider that Cueto can always do a decent job there.

Mad for Chelsea sorry who is the 2nd full back? Oh wait he is banned yet again!

You are talking about bizarre role reversal! Cueto being employed at FB and Armitage on the wing.

Armitage has played well but doesn't help matters by being unavailable.

Standout Lions eligible players picked out by the IRB official website (from different Pools):

Pool A: Winner: Richard Kahui.

Pool B: Winner Juan Figallo. Special mention: Manu Tuilagi, Chris Ashton & The Brand. Scotland: Richie Gray.
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2057025.html#player+pool+b+juan+figallo

Pool D: Winner Sam Warburton. Special mention - George North & Toby Faletu
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2057124.html#player+pool+d+sam+warburton

Pool C: Winner Sean O'Brien. Special mention: Brian O'Driscoll (execmplary captain & for scoring try in 4th world cup), Ronan O'Gara, Keith Earls, Cian Healy, Paul O'Connel & Jamie Heaslip.
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2057045.html#player+pool+c+irelands+sean+obrien.

Going on that then included in a Lions squad would have to have:

1. Healy
2. ?
3. ?
4. Richie Gray
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Sam Warburton
8. The Hask/Heaslip/Faletu
9. ?
10. Ronan O'Gara
11. Keith Earls
12. ?
13. Brian O'Driscoll (captain)
14. George North/Ashton
15.

The fact that Ferris isnt even mentioned is baffling. Is he the new Richard Hill. People dont realise how important he is till he isnt there?

No, Richard Hill is the Old Ian Ferris

Think he might be the new RH alright. I think the really good thing about our backrow is that they are playing together in a way that facilitates the best attributes of each of them coming to the fore and you end up with a very potent unit.

So who is the coach of this team - Gats, Johnson or Kidney?

Robinson

Standulstermen wrote:The fact that Ferris isnt even mentioned is baffling. Is he the new Richard Hill. People dont realise how important he is till he isnt there?

I'm not sure how anyone couldn't notice him Stand, he's the massive guy with 6 on his back thats been smashing everyone that comes near him backwards and taking 3-4 defenders over the advantage line everytime he carries. The fact that there's a huge guy with 7 on his back in the same team doing the exact same thing doesn't change how well Ferris is playing. Even the Irish times are calling him the best 6 on the planet .

If he's been slipping under the radar then all the better for us .

Glas a du Richard Hill would have eaten Ferris for breakfast,lunch and dinner.

None of the young Irish,Welsh,English or Scottish pretenders are yet worthy to be compared to Richard Hill.

POC is way off the pace eh? But he's been getting very high ratings in all the newspapers for every match. Usually 8 or 9 out of 10. The lineout is flawless. He's been named in the team of the pool stage of every website or newspaper that did one.

He's widely regarded by most to have been the stand out lock of the tournament so far. But you think he's way off the pace??? You haven't actually watched any Ireland games or you weren't paying attention.

1. Cian Healy
2. Huw Bennett (seriously.)
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Shaun O'Brien
7. Sam Warburton (c)
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Rhys Preistland (ROG hasnt played every game)
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Manu Tuilangi
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Chris Paterson

16. Mike Ross
17. Steve Thompson
18. Luke Charteris
19. Jamie Heaslip
20. Eion Reddan
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Brian O'Driscoll

wales606 wrote:
6. Shaun O'Brien

Is this the clone of SOB that Wales are ready to release on Saturday!

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Shaun O'Brien
7. Sam Warburton
8. James Haskell
9. Ben Youngs
10. Ronan O'Gara
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

I haven't seen anything THAT impressive from Tuilagi yet.. hes obviously got potential but I think Scott Williams has had a much more impressive WC debut

munkian wrote:I haven't seen anything THAT impressive from Tuilagi yet.. hes obviously got potential but I think Scott Williams has had a much more impressive WC debut

Hes played well in every game. Williams has played how many?

If we are allowing for perfomances in one game then wheres Shaw? Hape? Cueto?

Why no mention of Dan Parks.........every team needs a towel boy!

beshocked wrote:Glas a du Richard Hill would have eaten Ferris for breakfast,lunch and dinner.

None of the young Irish,Welsh,English or Scottish pretenders are yet worthy to be compared to Richard Hill.

He definately hasnt reached Hill's level yet but with a couple of injury free seasons he could. Hill was playing with a much better pack as well (not to be overly critical of Ireland but England at that time were something else).

standulstermen true we will have to see.

The Irish backrow has real potential to be excellent in my opinion. It's good now but where's the limit?

Stand I disagree. The game has moved on from when Hill played so you are not comparing like for like. There are several areas of the game where Ferris is far better than Hill ever was and areas where he isn't but in terms of a modern no 6 Ferris has everything you need and more.

Ferris hasn't had the injury free run to build up the consistancy that Hill had over a long period.

beshocked wrote:Metal Tiger I presume we are talking about England squad not form home nations side! No English player, no not even the mighty tigers would get into a home nations form side. Ok maybe Tuilagi but that's debatable. Also is he English?

Seeing as the form players of the RWC are being picked from the national sides then I mean both. If Sarries had any England Qualified players who were better in form, then they would be picked wouldn't they. You really have to stop this whole RFU don't like / ignore Sarries thing you have going.

beshocked wrote:
In regards to England I would pick Wigglesworth ahead of Youngs. Certainly based on Saturday's performance.

Sorry... Ben Youngs beats Wiggles hands down and has proved what he can do time & time again. He was a game changer for us against Argentina. But Ben struggled in the Scotland game but I put that more to not being paired up with Toby Flood and given JW instead so timing & position has been off.

beshocked wrote:
Judging the way Hodgson,Farrell and Barritt are playing the England management should pick at least one of them. MJ probably doesn't like them though for obvious reasons. Hodgson based on current form would be ahead of Wilkinson. Farrell could play at FH or inside centre. Barritt is a much better inside centre than Tindall,Hape of Banahan.

I refer to my earlier comment about conspiricys. Martin Johnson does not hate Sarries because he's ex Tigers.

beshocked wrote:
Strettle should be there instead of Bananaman.

I'll give you that one... not a fan of Spannerham at all.

beshocked wrote:
I am not complaining that much as recent results in the AP are showing, Saracens are having the last laugh. We have had 8 players missing at the world cup but you wouldn't be able to tell. Other international teams do appreciate our players.

Yes... I agree Sarries are laughing because they are stocked to the gills with internationally retired Bokkes so it doesn't really affect your starting XV come international time. Whereas teams like Tigers, Gloucester and Northampton believe in developing international talents, both English and other nationalities' for their 1st XV's and are rightly proud to supply them come 6N, AI, RWC etc.

Back to the original question I suppose....

English contenders for the Form Home Nations team would be for me Croft & Palmer... Englands lineout has functioned well and both have worked hard around the park.

Foden has been the best FB of all the home nations and I certainly think Ashton should be in there as top try scorer.

Youngs is the best SH in the NH but has been a bit hit n miss but he will come good.

The Brand has made a case for himself too I think.

That's about it folks.

1. Cian Heeley
2. Ross Ford
3. Euan Murray
4. AWJ
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. Roberts
13. O'Driscol
14. Ashton
15. Patterson

Wales and Ireland have produced the best rugby so far as a team. As individuals though there is a mix and some of the Scots deserve recognition. Some players were injured in the first couple of games and surely if they had not been would be standing tall in my selection. Courtney Lawes is a fine player as is James Hook and Dan Lydiate and they performed well in their opening matches.

I think Ewan Murray is the best TH in the world and Stephen Ferris is currently THE best player in the world. Very surprised our backrow has been so effective in competing at the breakdown. I thought SOB as an alternative to Wally would carry more but not be as competitive on the floor. I think he has really stepped up to the mark here but Ferris is the heartbeat of the pack.

1. Cian Healy by miles
2. Rory Best
3. Ewan Murray
4. Palmer
5. POC
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. ROG
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton/Bowe
15. Ptterson

I love this misconception that “irish/welsh teams have played better opposition”

Knocked out of Ireland’s group were Italy, USA and Russia. Ireland beat Australia.
Knocked out of Wales’ group were Samoa, Fiji and Namibia. Wales lost to the Boks
Knocked out of England’s group were Scotland, Georgia and Romania. England beat Argentina.

Based on current rankings for the teams knocked out it goes in descending order.

Scotland (10)
Samoa (11)
Italy (12)
Georgia (14)
Fiji (16)
USA (17)
Romania (18)
Namibia (19)
Russia (21)

Glad to know Scotland are worse than Russia who themselves are ranked below Portugal who are not even at the RWC.

Jennings will have his chance to shine on Saturday. Heaslip is to be dropped and O'Brien moved to 8.

The WarLord Mashaka wrote:I love this misconception that “irish/welsh teams have played better opposition”

Knocked out of Ireland’s group were Italy, USA and Russia. Ireland beat Australia.
Knocked out of Wales’ group were Samoa, Fiji and Namibia. Wales lost to the Boks
Knocked out of England’s group were Scotland, Georgia and Romania. England beat Argentina.

Based on current rankings for the teams knocked out it goes in descending order.

Scotland (10)
Samoa (11)
Italy (12)
Georgia (14)
Fiji (16)
USA (17)
Romania (18)
Namibia (19)
Russia (21)

Glad to know Scotland are worse than Russia who themselves are ranked below Portugal who are not even at the RWC.

Recent rankings only reflect the games recently played.

If there had been a playoff between those teams mentioned that were knocked out then I would presume teams like Scotland Tonga, Canada, Samoa and Italy would be ranked higher than teams like Romania and Georgia.

yeah i honestly think that ireland are on a bit of a high, and the italy game was one that gave them almost as much confidence as the aus win.

not being funby here- but england allways batter them as you did in the WC stage. but you have abit more of a dodgy time against them-as you did in the last 6n's

Italy arnt the opposition you think- you guys have just underperformed aginst them previously.

great win though- you didnt even give them a point- but trust me georgia are a pretty tasty side in there level.

GavinDragon wrote:the reason for the lack of english players in my team TO DATE is because the irish/welsh teams have played better opposition in their matches, with ireland beating all put in front of them and wales beating all except SA

Well, England have beaten all put in front of them as well, and yes Aus & SA are superior teams than those faced by England, but Argentina & Scotland are both ranked above Samoa & Italy, Georgia is ranked above Fiji & USA, and Romania is ranked above Namibia & Russia.

All that being said, the only England players I would put forward are Tuilagi, Foden and the tournament's top try scorer (he didn't score against the toughest opposition in the world but he scored more tries against tougher opposition than any of the other back three put forward, none of them having scored against Aus or SA).

hawalsh wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:the reason for the lack of english players in my team TO DATE is because the irish/welsh teams have played better opposition in their matches, with ireland beating all put in front of them and wales beating all except SA

Well, England have beaten all put in front of them as well, and yes Aus & SA are superior teams than those faced by England, but Argentina & Scotland are both ranked above Samoa & Italy, Georgia is ranked above Fiji & USA, and Romania is ranked above Namibia & Russia.

All that being said, the only England players I would put forward are Tuilagi, Foden and the tournament's top try scorer (he didn't score against the toughest opposition in the world but he scored more tries against tougher opposition than any of the other back three put forward, none of them having scored against Aus or SA).

I agree that Tuilagi and Ashton are up for contention but Foden isnt really playing that well, certainly not as well as Patterson, Byrne, Halfpenny or Kearney in the same position.