Canastota 2012 - Ballot is out now!

Dan Rafael revealed the list via twitter (reported James Slater on eastside):

Full list here: http://twitpic.com/6up5ya

However - includes:
Curry
Farr
Ceferino Garcia
Hamed
Hearns
Mark Johnson
Cocoa kid
Dariusz Mich...
Sven Ottke
Ken Overlin
Gustave Roth
Wilfredo Vasquez
Hilario Zapata

Who goes in, who misses out?

I'd pick Cocoa Kid to go in - he should be in there already IMO.

From the modern era - as long as Ottke misses out, I'm happy. Dariusz Mich did a lot and was unfairly treated by organisations pandering to RJJ.

Curry really should be in the HoF. Were Hamed to get in and Curry miss out - there would be something quite rotten in the heart of Canastota.

Seems a given Hearns will sail in and rightly so, would also say Hamed and Curry are long overdue but would have to think were they going to make it would have happened by now. Will be interesting to see how Dariusz and Sven get on

Hearns is definitely in.
Curry, Cocoa Kid and Hamed are the next in with a shout. If this is the full boxers list they will probably all get in.
Ottke and Darius should just about miss out, although wouldn't be too surprised at the reverse.
I wonder why people get in that have had multiple opportunities before get in other than needing to induct a certain number.

Ludicrous that Zapata, for instance, is to be considered, but not Santos Laciar, for example, whose record is much better overall. Amazed that Farr and Roth, good fighters, but clearly miles short of elite, should even be troubling the scorers, so to speak.

Even more interested to see how people vote on Hamed and Curry in our HofF deliberations the week after next. Hearns, of course, has already cracked our more exclusive club!

Apparently Fat Dan is voting for Tommy Hearns, Mark Johnson and Darius M at first glance.

Can someone who is on Twitter pester him to vote for Hamed, for some reason his continued exclusion is annoying me far more than should be the case

He gets 10 votes. How many can be inducted

I won't be able to contact Fat Dan on Twitter, we had an argument on there before which resulted in him blocking me. I think he is utterly useless, and a clown of that order should be allowed nowhere near a vote!

Ah, I see that Laciar is on the ballot, alongside men such as Peter Kane. Much better. Rafael is a particularly egregious example of the American boxing commentator who will invariably vote for his own, rather than a better candidate from a different country from around the same weight. Voting for Johnson, but not Kane, Kingpetch or Laciar? Madness. Then again, he selects Michalczewski, which is baffling if you like your candidates to have proven beyond doubt at some stage that they were the number one in their divisions. Perhaps it's less national bias and more the case that Rafael doesn't really know his own posterior from his elbow.

Precisely, Captain, and glad you agree with my sentiments.

Is Kingpetch on there? Was struggling to read his scanned in photo. For someone who is a "renowned boxing writer" you would hope that he could at least use an iphone

Yeah Kingpetch is just below Cocoa Kid.

There's not a sane person alive who wouldn't put Hearns in so it's two spaces left for the rest.

Personally i'd go for Dariusz Mich and Wilfredo Vasquez.

Perhaps on a different day, Dariusz would lose his place to Hamed.

Fists of Fury wrote:I won't be able to contact Fat Dan on Twitter, we had an argument on there before which resulted in him blocking me. I think he is utterly useless, and a clown of that order should be allowed nowhere near a vote!

Agree with you for once fists he is one bitter fat idiot...Remember him crying because David Haye blocked him off twitter...What was your argument about?

He hates Haye and Floyd Mayweather because he cant get interviews but has a man crush on the Klitschko's because they are stupid enough to talk to him.

Gotta say I would be surprised if Hamed got in.
I don't think he had the titles, reign or status to be considered HoF.
Barrera and Morales will walk in.. but Hamed, not sure.

It will be his flashiness and what ifs that would get him in.

More bizarre is the idea that Hearns has only been retired since 2006!

Gerard the problem is there are any number of Barry McGuigan's or Ingemar Johansen's in there with way less compelling claims than Hamed and still he doesn't make it.

Is there a certain number of fighters that are allowing in each year?

rowley wrote:Gerard the problem is there are any number of Barry McGuigan's or Ingemar Johansen's in there with way less compelling claims than Hamed and still he doesn't make it.

You reckon there's a certain amount of "this is your comeuppance for being so arrogant" about the voting?

Dazstarr wrote:Is there a certain number of fighters that are allowing in each year?

I heard 3 pioneer, 3 old timers, 3 modern. Which considering modern is the only one increasing in size doesn't sound like a great idea.

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:Gerard the problem is there are any number of Barry McGuigan's or Ingemar Johansen's in there with way less compelling claims than Hamed and still he doesn't make it.

You reckon there's a certain amount of "this is your comeuppance for being so arrogant" about the voting?

James Toney is going to be screwed if that's the case!

DAVE667 wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

rowley wrote:Gerard the problem is there are any number of Barry McGuigan's or Ingemar Johansen's in there with way less compelling claims than Hamed and still he doesn't make it.

You reckon there's a certain amount of "this is your comeuppance for being so arrogant" about the voting?

James Toney is going to be screwed if that's the case!

You don't think that spite comes into it?

rowley, good point about McGuigan.
I remember reading a Ring edition about two years ago and it was considering modern fighters that would be in the hall of fame.
I think at the time there were only 4 absolute nailed on certs - Barrera, Morales, Tzuyu and Hopkins.
Number of titles, number of weight classes and quality of opponent all came in to play.

McGuigan is in due to the impact he had in Northern Ireland. I'm from the north so I think highly of Barry but a title win and immediate loss should not qualify him for HoF.

Scottrf wrote:

Dazstarr wrote:Is there a certain number of fighters that are allowing in each year?

I heard 3 pioneer, 3 old timers, 3 modern. Which considering modern is the only one increasing in size doesn't sound like a great idea.

Cheers Scott - thats sounds a bit bizarre as they will end up eventually putting all the old timers in at some point.

Dazstarr wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Dazstarr wrote:Is there a certain number of fighters that are allowing in each year?

I heard 3 pioneer, 3 old timers, 3 modern. Which considering modern is the only one increasing in size doesn't sound like a great idea.

Cheers Scott - thats sounds a bit bizarre as they will end up eventually putting all the old timers in at some point.

Might not be correct, I haven't checked.

Soon its going to be difficult not to get into the HoF going off some of the names on that list

Hamed to stay out. The fat useless waste of space feasted on tomato cans for years, beat a couple of half decent fighters (not great ones) and then got humiliated by Barrera who was supposed to be past it. Then became a cry baby and quit the sport.

Have no time for him

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Hamed to stay out. The fat useless waste of space feasted on tomato cans for years, beat a couple of half decent fighters (not great ones) and then got humiliated by Barrera who was supposed to be past it. Then became a cry baby and quit the sport.

Have no time for him

Jeff will not be happy at that Dee! You have been warned! Haha!

What's the cut off point when modern fighters become old-timers? (I can see Windy pitching a fit right now)


"I think at the time there were only 4 absolute nailed on certs - Barrera, Morales, Tzuyu and Hopkins.
Number of titles, number of weight classes and quality of opponent all came in to play."

You can add Marquez to that list...especially when he beats Manny!

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Hamed to stay out. The fat useless waste of space feasted on tomato cans for years, beat a couple of half decent fighters (not great ones) and then got humiliated by Barrera who was supposed to be past it. Then became a cry baby and quit the sport.

Have no time for him

Glad you added the last line as your first paragraph left your feelings pretty ambiguous.

Hearns Hamed and Curry to get in I reckon

Ottke?? lol now there was protected fighter I do not think he was that good maybe he was unbeaten but he had lots of robberies and didnt fight no one good.

rowley wrote:Gerard the problem is there are any number of Barry McGuigan's or Ingemar Johansen's in there with way less compelling claims than Hamed and still he doesn't make it.

Think I made this point before but as brief as McGuigan's reign was he was a classic world champion in that he beat "the man" am not so sure if Hamed was. Also Ingemar was a classic world champion. I really think in this day and age of multiple trinkets only "classic" world champions should get in. So a cheat like Ottke who hid in Germany while Calzaghe was operating throughout his title "reign" should never get in despite his numbers. Neither should anyone who defended a strap umpteen times but never proved themselves the best. Dariusz Michalczewski should be in there on the basis he was undiputed champ beating Hill and never lost his belts in the ring.

Waingro wrote:Hearns Hamed and Curry to get in I reckon

Ottke?? lol now there was protected fighter I do not think he was that good maybe he was unbeaten but he had lots of robberies and didnt fight no one good.

Anyone.

Super whilst Hamed may not have beaten the "man" at the weight to win his title, if indeed there was one during his reign he went on to beat the WBA, IBF and WBC champion so but for politics was the unified champion and whatever people think of him was undoubtedly and accepted pretty much worldwide as being the number one feather weight in the world for at least a couple of years. Am pretty sure Barry M would struggle to say the same.

Rowley just trying to say that could be what keeps Hamed out for a while. Also, bear in mind his less than decent personality, running people over and being stripped of his MBE - all things that don't help his case.

I personally don't think his personality helps him one bit, suspect this is perhaps the biggest factor in his continued exclusion because if you look solely on his ring exploits his claim is as strong as countless others who are safely in there

Johansson is a Heavyweight, and McGuigan is in as much for his social impact I expect.

Absurdly, only Primo Carnera, among lineal heavyweight champions, is missing from Canastota. I'm amazed that they decided to draw the line at poor Primo. No evidence of any sort of comparison between fighters. Just Alice in Wonderland - all have won and all shall have prizes.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Absurdly, only Primo Carnera, among lineal heavyweight champions, is missing from Canastota. I'm amazed that they decided to draw the line at poor Primo. No evidence of any sort of comparison between fighters. Just Alice in Wonderland - all have won and all shall have prizes.

Is Hart in there Captain? Would think Primo is as deserving as Marvin

Na, Hart's not there.

oxring wrote:Dan Rafael revealed the list via twitter (reported James Slater on eastside):

Full list here: http://twitpic.com/6up5ya

However - includes:
Curry

I'd hate tobe Truss's keyboard when he reads that....

No, he's not, Jeff. My mistake. I guess I felt that since Hart's claim to the title has been so disputed over the years, that I was omitting him from my calculations. Douglas and Spinks aren't in either, I don't think, so I was a bit off-beam, to say the least. Nevertheless, either Hart or Carnera have as much claim as Braddock, Willard, Sharkey or Johansson, I should think. Which is to say no claim at all.

Does stink doesn't it that you can pretty much do anything at heavyweight and get in and do everything at the lower weights and it's a lottery.

Rowley rowley. Did you not remember the awesome debate (think it was with onetwo, but if I do him a disservice I apologise) back on the beeb - where Audley was proclaimed as greater than Floyd because Audley was bigger?

Clearly - being a fatty equates to a level of greatness that little fellas can't compete with. As such, it should be easier for them to get into the Hall.

oxring wrote:Clearly - being a fatty equates to a level of greatness that little fellas can't compete with. As such, it should be easier for them to get into the Hall.

Dearly hope you're right mate as if so my induction can only be a matter of time.

Clearly - being a fatty equates to a level of greatness that little fellas can't compete with

Trussie must be on his 14th entry by now then

coxy0001 wrote:

Clearly - being a fatty equates to a level of greatness that little fellas can't compete with

Trussie must be on his 14th entry by now then

He gets more than that on a Saturday night down the Blue Oyster...

BALTIMORA wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

Clearly - being a fatty equates to a level of greatness that little fellas can't compete with

Trussie must be on his 14th entry by now then

He gets more than that on a Saturday night down the Blue Oyster...

coxy0001 wrote:

Clearly - being a fatty equates to a level of greatness that little fellas can't compete with

Trussie must be on his 14th entry by now then

Believe they are called entree's Coxy