A Question for the Tindall haters

Do you really think the England team is stronger for not playing Tindall?
I'm not saying that I'm against the Flood / Tuilagi combo, but so many of you have been begging for Tindall to be dropped.
Do you really think that he's that bad for England?

I've been looking through some of England's games over the last few years.

We went a whole year not picking him for England (2009 and Early 2010).
During which time we played such players as May, Geraghty, Hipkiss, Tait, Flutey, and my personal favourite Erinle.
Most of those games were a complete washout and we lost the majority of them.

Tindall then came back roughly when our fortunes started to change in 2010... is that a coincidence?

Prior to 2009, Noon was a regular in the England centres, and no-one was too happy about that.

What I'm trying to say, is that any revival in England performances over the last year or so have included Tindall in the team.



Admittedly, to counter all of this, we were able to beat France and Ireland in 2008 when Flood was at Inside Centre, and he had the creativity and dangerous power game of Jamie Noon outside him.
Similarly, when we played Wales in the 6N in 2010 and won 30-17, Flood was playing 12.
On top of all that, Tuilagi has never lost in an England shirt, so this could be a promising combination.


All I'm trying to say is that everyone was writing Tindall off in 07/08, and yet he was central to our improvement in 2010.
He isn't necessarily finished and over the hill yet.

I like Tindall, but maybe its time to give someone else a go, with Manu at 13 England don't lack any beef in the middle of the park and Flood can tackle well too, the French would have expected Tindall to start.

I've just read Jamie Noons wiki page. I'm pretty sure he wrote it himself. It's effin' hilarious!

Agree about Tinds, brought stability to a very shaky England midfield just when it was really needed. Gave a chance for the younger players to bed in.

Tindall has been a massive servant to England.

But centres need pace and more importantly some kind of handling ability...(not just on blondes)

Tindalls pace is gone and his handling is attrocious.

This WC...Tuilagi is the man.
Post WC...leave it to Lowe, Trinder, Waldouck, Tuilagi etc etc...

He's a very good defensive back and tackles very well.

But he's not that fast, has poor acceleration, his passing is rarely on target, if he actually passes, and just takes the crash option one too many times for my liking.

Sorry but that's just the way I see it. Not been a fan of Mikes for a long time.

He's a wrecking ball in a position that requires power AND finesse.

Well if England dont beat France we will never see Tindall play for England again for certain.
If they do he'll still have a hell of ajob changing the combination thats got them thorugh, although I suspect they wouldnt go up ahgainst a SANZAR side with Flood at 12 to get easten alive.

Geordie...
I'm not disagreeing, I think that post-WC we need a better option, presumably to partner Tuilagi.

Obviously, players can't go on forever (except maybe Shaw)
However, do you think that Tindall really had more pace and better handling in 2010 when he performed really well for us.

Do you think he was ever much faster than he is now?

what has happened to flutey?

i'm very concerned about our defence with Tindall missing. Its not that Flood can't tackle but an effective tight defence is about so much more than just one on one tackling ability.

Defence is about working as a team, Tindall was the leader and organiser of this and without him i can imagine a lack of communication, understanding and trust in each other could see us get torn apart.

Well, he went to France, got a bit injured, lost a bit of form, and then came back to Wasps.

This season he has actually played ok.... but in my opinion, not amazing.
The problem I have with Flutey for England is that he's kinda a jack of all trades, and master of none.

He can kick well, he can distribute, he can tackle, and he can step and run.... but he's not fantastic at any one of those attributes.

if Tindall regularly plays like he did v Ireland then it would'nt be a problem.

he doesn't ... so he is.

No in a word. When you have props in the competition with better distribution skills than Tindall you know he's got problems. He's a big strong man with good leadership qualities but that's pretty much it. He'd be the second worst centre on display this weekend I reckon.

I respect what Tindal has achieved, but I keep seeing people saying that we’ve got to pick him etc, but how long for??? ‘That Tindal may not be fast, but his mobility scooter really helps straighten the line!’

I understand that the quarter finals of the World Cups aren’t the place to start experimenting, but something has really got to change afterwards.

It’s a sad indictment of past systems that England have not been able to find somebody better until now.. We’ve got a stuck on starter in Tuilagi at outside centre, but need to find one, possibly two, alternatives to allow for injuries. I’d personally pick two from Henry Trinder, George Lowe, Dom Waldouck, Adam Powell, Dan Hipkiss or Jonny May and just keep them around the set up, even if they stuff up occasionally.

As ever inside centre is the frustrating one. I’d have Brad Barritt as the no.1 contender at the moment, so get him involved as soon as possible. Then I’d find two from Billy Twelvetrees, Anthony Allen, Jordan Turner-Hall or Owen Farrell. Just pick a couple of them and stick with them, even if things go wrong.

disneychilly wrote:No in a word. When you have props in the competition with better distribution skills than Tindall you know he's got problems. He's a big strong man with good leadership qualities but that's pretty much it. He'd be the second worst centre on display this weekend I reckon.

I'll bite, who's the worst?

Tindall is and has been a master centre for England. His defence is top drawer he is a good tactician and kicker and he also always carries well. (His passing is a little pedestrian at times though). In today's international game where just about every team have giants in the mid-field he has been excellent. Against the SH sides you would not want anyone else in the mid-field except may be against Australia.

Cumbrian...
you say it's a sad indictment of past systems that we haven't found someone better, but England have tried.
The problem is that none of them have been any better than Tindall in the past.

I've listed a number of the options that we've tried, including the 'flavour of the months' such Tait, Hipkiss, Geraghty etc....
Generally none of them have shone (although i'm sure plenty of people will say that they haven't had enough opportunities)


Age is irrelevant.... ability and performance is the only thing that should concern selectors.
If Tindall is up to it, and better than the rest, then he should be picked... If others are better, then he shouldn't.

In the past, we have tried to find better, and failed.
Hopefully, we may have now succeeded.
A Flood / Tuilagi partnership has a lot going for it..... given time.
It's interesting that we're trying it for the first time in a 1/4 final of the RWC with 3 weeks of the most important games ahead of us.

wasps wrote:Cumbrian...
you say it's a sad indictment of past systems that we haven't found someone better, but England have tried.
The problem is that none of them have been any better than Tindall in the past.

I've listed a number of the options that we've tried, including the 'flavour of the months' such Tait, Hipkiss, Geraghty etc....
Generally none of them have shone (although i'm sure plenty of people will say that they haven't had enough opportunities)


Age is irrelevant.... ability and performance is the only thing that should concern selectors.
If Tindall is up to it, and better than the rest, then he should be picked... If others are better, then he shouldn't.

In the past, we have tried to find better, and failed.
Hopefully, we may have now succeeded.
A Flood / Tuilagi partnership has a lot going for it..... given time.
It's interesting that we're trying it for the first time in a 1/4 final of the RWC with 3 weeks of the most important games ahead of us.

Age may be irrelevant, but skill, speed and the ability to avoid/recover from injuries isn’t. Tindall has hands like jubblies and lacks vision and speed. People’s justification for him seems to be that he runs hard and is good defensively. I just don’t believe simply being defensively sound is enough in international rugby. As for leadership, England have run around like headless chickens at times this tournament, I’ve yet to see anybody show leadership qualities

Ask the supporters from pretty much any other team in the quarter finals if they’d like to swap for Tindall. I guarantee once they stop laughing, they’ll say no. The fact that we’ve found nobody else until now is the sad indictment of the past system (Not of Johnson who has searched hard, 13 different centre combinations since he became England manager).

Also, Tait wasn’t exactly flavour of the month; the lad is only 25 and has 38 caps despite being almost constantly injured for Sale for two year.

Agreed about the Flood/ Tuilagi combination, I'd prefer to have somebody who play at inside centre more regularly though.

Tait - in 7's he ran tries in for fun. I really hope there is an international future for him but its much more likely to be as a wing first not center

wasps wrote:
Tindall then came back roughly when our fortunes started to change in 2010... is that a coincidence?

Maybe not, but it's worth remembering that that was also the time when Lawes, Youngs, Flood (at 10), Ashton, Foden and even the much maligned Hape started getting picked, so putting it all down to Tindall may be stretching it. In any case we're 18 months on from that now, so it's perfectly possible that he may have declined in the meantime.