Ireland vs Wales.... who are the winners?

This will be a tight one. Real tight. 2 of the best teams in the WORLD right now, on form.

Both teams seem evenly matched and on paper there is little between them. But we often hear that rugby is often a physiological battle.

With that in mind, lets look at the 2 teams.

Of Ireland starting XV, 11 have won Heineken Cups, while scrum-half Conor Murray has won the Magners League on a semi-final and final, knockout basis. Wales cannot draw on any comparable experience.

Will the lack of any real knock out experience and the distinct lack of silverware bedevil the Welsh?

You have to say, winning is a habit and this is cup rugby.

Do Ireland have the physiological edge?

Well, time will tell.... enjoy

hmmmmm, I'm always of two minds. Yes experience counts, but no one has done anything until they've actually done it, if you follow?
There had to be a first time for the Leinster and Munster players to come through knock out stages and prevail. So there's no reason why this couldn't be the 1st time for the Welsh players to do it.
I could barely sleep last night.
The following results WOULD NOT suprise me in any way:

Wales 22 Ireland 19
Ireland 22 Wales 19
Wales 36 Ireland 5
Ireland 40 Wales 7

The thing that it worries me will give Ireland the edge is that their coaching staff are likely to have done a better job preparing them for this game tactically than ours.

Didn't the ospreys win the magnets play offs beat leinster in Dublin.

Surely a few of this guys have experience.

The Cardiff lads had a great HeC run with the blues beaten by no more than a penalty shoot out.

Plenty of flaws in your argument mate.

Boyne wrote:
Do Ireland have the physiological edge?

I wish I could say yes but the Welsh camp looks very relaxed and confident.

None of the usual jibes from Gatland or talking his team up. They seem very at ease with the position they're in and that worry's me.

I think Wales have the edge psychologically and have a swagger about them. Ireland have had to pull out some special performances to make this tie happen whereas it's kind of fallen on Wales lap without them having to do much other than limp past Samoa.

If Ireland start well then they have a chance but if Wales score first I think it will be very hard to stop them.

To be honest even though the welsh lads have not as much silverwear as their irish counterparts in the domestic front, there are a far few boys there that were in good U20s international sides, and a number of survivers from the brawl in Swansea a few seasons ago. So they know what its about.

I would hate to have to call this match even now. I prey that Wales have it in them to win, but if we don't at least I won't have to listen to the part-time fans spouting nonsence at work about how Wales are world beaters just like back in the 70s and how amazing it is that Gatland has developed all of these young players single handedly. I swear its worse than listening to the fact England won a football world cup a few decades back

Hey Rodders... when did all this negative stuff start to creep in? I'm all in favour of being low key and being honest about your weaknesses... and even being realistic that there's a hair's breadth between us. But I really don't see any real reason why the welsh should be more confident than the irish going in to this one.

I do hope that they're more over-confident than us... but I certainly don't think the Irish lads should go in fearing the worst (or with a pyschological chip on their shoulders) just because of Wales' demolition of two of the worst sides at the tournament.

Remember it's not all about individuals and it's as much (if not more) about a solid team defense as it is about speed and attack.

The nerves are killing me too tho I have to admit...

Nos the mentality of our two countries are different. When Wales tails are up then they are really UP!

If they get momentum, as they have now then they are very, very difficult to stop and I think if they score early then it will further enhance the belief running through the Welsh camp that this is their destiny.

If we play like we did against Australia and blow them away up front then off course we can win but I'm not sure if we can dominate them physically the way we did against Australia.

More often than not it's the Welsh who beat themselves by being either too cocky or too pessimisic but I'm not sensing either from this side.

roddersm wrote:Nos the mentality of our two countries are different. When Wales tails are up then they are really UP!

If they get momentum, as they have now then they are very, very difficult to stop and I think if they score early then it will further enhance the belief running through the Welsh camp that this is their destiny.

If we play like we did against Australia and blow them away up front then off course we can win but I'm not sure if we can dominate them physically the way we did against Australia.

More often than not it's the Welsh who beat themselves by being either too cocky or too pessimisic but I'm not sensing either from this side.

For once we are in complete disagreement on summat Rodders. Confidence based on a brief (albeit inmpressive) upturn in your performances is a fragile thing. If Ireland can lay into Wales with intensity and cause knock-ons, etc then those heady dreams of how they played against Fiji and Namibia will seem more and more like a mirage. Ireland's confidence in their defence on the other hand has a base that extends back beyond this year's 6N with the development and success of Leinster's blanket defence. I really don't see that crumbling even if Wales do score early. This isn't the same Ireland of 2 years ago.

Wales can absolutely win this game. But Ireland should be confident they can assert their gameplan better than Wales can.

The physiological edge? Wales have North who is a new Jonah apparently and Jamie Roberts. Irish have a great backrow but I edge this to Wales.

The psychological edge. Ireland have club experience. They will have confidence from the Australia win. Wales have built through the tournament butif they get behind on the scoreboard at the business end of the game I fear for their mental fortitude. The psychological edge to Ireland.

I hope you are right Nos. I think the pre match tension is getting to me!

Ignore my ramblings, I thought we would lose to Italy last week too!

I just wish I could see more weaknesses in this Welsh side.....

roddersm wrote: I hope you are right Nos. I think the pre match tension is getting to me!

Ignore my ramblings, I thought we would lose to Italy last week too!

I just wish I could see more weaknesses in this Welsh side.....

Keep looking Rodders, keep looking.

Going to be a long night

Ireland are a good side but I do feel that some posters are really clutching at straws by looking for weaknesses in the Welsh side.
When Wales play poorly I'm often guilty of doing the same I look for weaknesses in the opposition or maybe create them just to make myself feel better.
Since the first warm up game against England I knew that this young Welsh side had a different mental attitude to what I had seen in the recent past.
This side we have now is far better than the side that won the 2008 GS and it's certainly miles better than the side that played in the 2011 6N.

Cymroglan wrote:Since the first warm up game against England I knew that this young Welsh side had a different mental attitude to what I had seen in the recent past.This side we have now is far better than the side that won the 2008 GS and it's certainly miles better than the side that played in the 2011 6N.

I concur. That is why I am worried. In the past I would be confident that we would be able to bully the Welsh pack and gradually the belief would seep out of Wales. I don't see that here and this looks the best Welsh side since 2005 albeit they are playing a more direct and less expansive form of rugby.

That said this Ireland side is as strong as I've seen but I think our strength comes from crushing our opponents spirit through relentless controlled aggression and spirit but I don't see this Welsh side wilting at all.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:Ireland's confidence in their defence on the other hand has a base that extends back beyond this year's 6N with the development and success of Leinster's blanket defence. I really don't see that crumbling even if Wales do score early.

On the subject of defence, here's an interesting fact: both Ireland and Wales conceded only 34 points in the pool stages. This could be a seriously tight game.

roddersm wrote:I just wish I could see more weaknesses in this Welsh side.....

Cymroglan wrote:Ireland are a good side but I do feel that some posters are really clutching at straws by looking for weaknesses in the Welsh side.

Now your just being silly Cymroglan.

1) Firstly for taking advantage of Rodders in his weakened state. Rodders was clearly paying a compliment to the welsh boys and yet you've proceeded to have another partisan pop regarding some fantasy you have about Irish posters in general.

2) Every side has numerous weaknesses. Even the AB's. So to pretend otherwise is just plain overconfidence. Just a few of Wales' more obvious weaknesses are the fact that they've only recently come to form (and two of those games were against very poor opposition), they have some young and inexperienced heads on the pitch, they're kicking has been dodgy and they've been conceding tries in crucial games for over the last year.

Doesn't mean they're gonna lose... mind you.

Some posters

Cymroglan wrote:Some posters

Ahh I see you meant all those Argentinian posters who've been avidly debating the Ireland-Wales game.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:Now your just being silly Cymroglan.

1) Firstly for taking advantage of Rodders in his weakened state. Rodders was clearly paying a compliment to the welsh boys and yet you've proceeded to have another partisan pop regarding some fantasy you have about Irish posters in general.

Come on Ireland!

Nos na Gaoithe
Let's hope it's a cracking game tomorrow

Cymroglan wrote:Nos na Gaoithe
Let's hope it's a cracking game tomorrow

I hope its 75-74...

















....but not the way you're thinking!

75th minute and the 74th point for wales is reached.............thats what you meant, surely?

andy powells minder wrote:75th minute and the 74th point for wales is reached.............thats what you meant, surely?

Nope... we've gone with ROG. So it's a no try game for us.

Wales scored 15 tries and converted none...

ROG scored 19 penalties and 5 drop goals... and Sexton came on to kick the last winning penalty from the touchline on the 22 in the 80th minute!

What a game... you should've been there.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

andy powells minder wrote:75th minute and the 74th point for wales is reached.............thats what you meant, surely?

Nope... we've gone with ROG. So it's a no try game for us.

Wales scored 15 tries and converted none...

ROG scored 19 penalties and 5 drop goals... and Sexton came on to kick the last winning penalty from the touchline on the 22 in the 80th minute!

What a game... you should've been there.

Ahhhh.......thats OK then, an honourable draw you mean

Ireland are lucky I'm not in charge of team strategy... I can't even fix the game right!

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Phewww, thought it was my man sausage up of the maths for a sec.

I honestly feel like puking its that tense.

At the start if you'd have said to us we'd be playing Wales and not SA in the QF, I would have been delighted.

Now, having seen the way Wales have played...hmmm not so sure.

Strongest Wales and Ireland for ages.

If Ireland lose this, I hope Wales go all the way.

Boyne wrote:I honestly feel like puking its that tense.

At the start if you'd have said to us we'd be playing Wales and not SA in the QF, I would have been delighted.

Now, having seen the way Wales have played...hmmm not so sure.

Strongest Wales and Ireland for ages.

If Ireland lose this, I hope Wales go all the way.

Hear hear that man, and vice versa

One thing which is making think that Wales will fail come tomorrow is how every article I read in both NH & SH papers is how Wales are destined to get to the final, how they are no longer minnows, how this is the beginning of a golden generation etc etc etc.

They are taking their eye of the ball.

Lets be honest.... they haven't achieved anything yet. They're in a QF.... the bare bare minimum for a team of Wales' quality. They beat Samoa by the string of their teeth and then beat a 2nd team Fiji side (Fiji made 11 changes from the Samoa match). Fine they put in a decent performance against SA but its almost like they waited for die bokke to catch up and that they fully expected to lose.

Lets see how they cope with KO rugby pressure before people laud them as the next big things.

Just remember, Charlie Hodgson has probably been one of the best players the NH has produced over the last decade but always crumbles over pressure, you can't never tell how a player reacts until players are put to the test.
Wales have never really proved themselves in cup competition, either in the HC or the RWC so the debate is still out.

They're going to have their hands full against IRE thats for sure. They possess a big pack and a seasoned team and will be very very tough to beat.... by anyone in the competition, let alone Wales.

Baring the occasional WUM,the banter on here has been good. Nice to see. Can't wait to be cheering on the boys at 6 Am tomorrow as we try and assert ourselves over Wales.





Cmon Ireland!!!!!!!!

fa0019 Everybody struggles against the Samoan first XV including Australia.

The second string Australian team.

Cymroglan

Not denying Samoa wasn't a half-decent victory, Samoa are a good side... all I was suggesting was that its hardly cause for all this hysteria.
If Wales beat IRE and then get into the final then by all means but at the moment the performances do not warrant the praise and I think the dreaming is going to affect the team in a bad way.

Lets wait until they put in a real performance and back it up with a victory. They have the talent... but then again, they've had the talent for the last 8 years. Talent is only one of many indicators to success at this level.

Yeah losing to a POOR POOR POOR SA performance and struggling to beat Samoa really makes a great team

Seriously peeps i know your nervous but this Wales team are nowt special and will be shown up badly 2moz

Here's what Ewen McKenzie, the Queensland Reds coach has to say on the rugby heaven website,

The other team that has impressed is Wales. They'll play an Irish team that has performed especially well in defence and, tactically, been very good.

Most pundits will tip Ireland to account for Wales. If you look past the win versus the Wallabies, the Irish took ordinary form into the cup but have come together as a team, unlike some other finalists.

The most interesting thing is the Welsh differential of 146, the second best in the tournament - behind the All Blacks - and they have the fourth-best defence so far.

So he just compliments both teams and doesn't call it. Neither does Guscott on the BBC website. A lot of rugby pundits won't stick their neck out and make a prediction, which I find pretty annoying.

Do your job pundits and bleedin call it for feic sake.

Ferris+O'Brien+Heaslip wrote:Yeah losing to a POOR POOR POOR SA performance and struggling to beat Samoa really makes a great team

Seriously peeps i know your nervous but this Wales team are nowt special and will be shown up badly 2moz

I wish you well tomorrow let's hope it's a great sporting spectacle for all us true rugby fans


PS Does anybody else think that this poster is not Irish

Having heard so much emphasis put on the Irish provincial success in relation to this game, one thing has to be said: If HC success really did carry through to the national side, Ireland will have won more than one 6N title and Wales less than two. That not being the case...

"Will the lack of any real knock out experience and the distinct lack of silverware bedevil the Welsh?"

If you define lack of silverware as precisely two championship wins in the last 6 years, then surely the same doubt lies more strongly on the Irish side.

If we were talking a Leinster v Ospreys HC QF I'd be inclined to agree with most of what you're saying. However, we're not, it's Wales v Ireland and don't ye forget it

Boyne wrote:I honestly feel like puking its that tense.

At the start if you'd have said to us we'd be playing Wales and not SA in the QF, I would have been delighted.

Now, having seen the way Wales have played...hmmm not so sure.

Strongest Wales and Ireland for ages.

If Ireland lose this, I hope Wales go all the way.

+1

Havent been on here in a few weeks and am like a kid on Christmas eve.
Going for Ireland to win a very tough match.

I think Wales will come out guns a blazin' and expect the same from Ireland.

Thankfully I have rugby training tonight to take my mind off of it.
We are playing Carlow (our local arch rivals) for the first time in ten years in a competitive match and we have a deal with SOB that if he wins we wont let him down on Sunday!
Mon Ireland (and Tullow on Sunday)!!!

Cymroglan wrote:

Ferris+O'Brien+Heaslip wrote:Yeah losing to a POOR POOR POOR SA performance and struggling to beat Samoa really makes a great team

Seriously peeps i know your nervous but this Wales team are nowt special and will be shown up badly 2moz

I wish you well tomorrow let's hope it's a great sporting spectacle for all us true rugby fans


PS Does anybody else think that this poster is not Irish

He certainly isn't representative of the Irish view on the game.

Thomond wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:

Ferris+O'Brien+Heaslip wrote:Yeah losing to a POOR POOR POOR SA performance and struggling to beat Samoa really makes a great team

Seriously peeps i know your nervous but this Wales team are nowt special and will be shown up badly 2moz

I wish you well tomorrow let's hope it's a great sporting spectacle for all us true rugby fans


PS Does anybody else think that this poster is not Irish

He certainly isn't representative of the Irish view on the game.

There was another guy here posting during the warm ups, used all the same jargon "tourney, peeps, 2moz....." Forget his name (anyone?), he was a wum too- 10er to the euro its the same person under a different name.

Just watching the build-up reports in Cardiff and Wellington. Has to be said I'm now buzzing on the inside, I can hardly sit still, this is the feeling I used to get on Christmas Eve as a kid. Guess who's not sleeping tonight

[quote="Knowsit17"]Just watching the build-up reports in Cardiff and Wellington. Has to be said I'm now buzzing on the inside, I can hardly sit still, this is the feeling I used to get on Christmas Eve as a kid. [b]Guess who's not sleeping tonight[/b] [/quote]

I would say most Irish and Walsh fans!
And I have a match in the morning after the England match(Stupid fixtures )...

If there's any injustice in rugby it's that these two proud nations have to fight it out in the quarters rather than the final. I have genuinely never seen so much respect between Irish and Welsh fans.

[quote="mckay1402"]If there's any injustice in rugby it's that these two proud nations have to fight it out in the quarters rather than the final. I have genuinely never seen so much respect between Irish and Welsh fans. [/quote]

I doubt if it will be like that after the match

17 - 9 Wales won't score a try bookmark it

I think they will imo but wheither or not they do will most likely be irrillivent to the score it will be close and nerve-racking and hopefully exciting.

I can't get Irelands call out of my head. Hope that isn't a sign...

Irish Curry wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:If there's any injustice in rugby it's that these two proud nations have to fight it out in the quarters rather than the final. I have genuinely never seen so much respect between Irish and Welsh fans.

I doubt if it will be like that after the match

After the match The Irish and Welsh will be drinking like fish together in a pub ….. With the losers wishing the other all the best and warning them ... Just don’t go and lose to the F***ing English!!