Irish Post mortem

First topic message reminder :

This thread is going to be painful and its time the gloves came off so if you dont like it just ignore it. But Im absolutely sick to the back teeth about what I heard tonight all of which blamed the defeat on ROG and Murray. Heres my take on it



1. Lets get one thing straight -Wales have a better team 1 to 15. I only found this out today but its clear. Their strenght and physicality was superior. They owned the break down which is where they won game. Our half backs were under severe pressure and were forced to change there plans at the last second every time. Warburten murdered us here.

2. Roberts absolutely killed us. And it wasnt in the 10 channel. BOD and Darcy are now the most ineffective centres in top tier Interantional rugby. For the second try Darcy shouted at players that he had the blindside covered - by f**k did he.

3. Front row - Irelands front row has been a revelation in the last 6 months and I am loathed to even think about criticising any player here. Cian Healy and Mike Ross have brought Ireland to this top table and simply have been brilliant. Didnt go well today.

4. Back row - Irelands best weapon in the games where we have turned up. One player has been absent - Heaslip. P. O'Mahony now has to be looked at as a replacement. You cant live on reputation. Would SOB have done so well against Australia if they had a natural 7 Pocock playing??? Not a criticism of SOB as he is not a natural 7. I believe you can live without a natural 7 as long as you commit men to the breakdown.

5. ROG and Murray - ROG had a terrible game - two over cooked kicks in the first half lost us good field position. Some sympathy for Murray as the break down was a mess because we didnt commit numbers and failed to secure our own ball. Pack was going backwards at the rate of knots all day. Did Sexton and Reddan make any difference - imo no- reddans first contribution was 2 poor box kicks into mid field and sexton first kick was an aimless kick into mid field which led to the third try.



Why we lost - the game was lost in the pack. Wales totally dominated here slowing down our ball at best and turning it over at best. Everything Preistland touched turned to gold. Roberts was a human wrecking ball.



Reirements


2. BOD great season in 09 for GS but is just falling off tackles now and not making breaks. Possibly move to 12 but I think should now retire

3. ROG - will retire

4.DOC - times up -great servant

5.Darcy - time to step aside - one of Irelands best ever 12s if not the best

SOB, He was sensational for a period at no 8 last year in the blue jersey. Given the strength of the scrum the last few years him clattering off a dominant scrum will give us instant go forward.

I think Dom Ryan will turn out to be a super player and could well lock down a flanker berth

Thanks Rory I am quite horizontal

DOD wrote:Most folks (who were not Munster supporters) agreed. However Dublin the point is it moved from an Ireland Postmortem to a ROG postmortem to then determining that his selection was to blame...

I re watched the game...he didnt play badly (verified by independent witness Glas) and made a couple of errors but nothing major. The comment that Sexton was not picked because of his kicking stats is self serving bull, Sexton cannot kick either at the posts or out of hand (witness lead up to third try and last ten minutes of ITalian game). Neither can he get a back line moving (in fact its his limitation in this area which will come back to haunt him ) - please point out the lovely moves we made after he came on?

We lost because Wales were better on the day. A lot of players didnt turn up or played poorly including a lot of the feted Leinster boys...who the f is being precious now?

This is a load of rubbish,Sexton has been kicking far better from hand all tournament,I said this ona previous thread but if you point out one bad kick from hand for Sexton this WC I'll show you two from O'Gara.I still backed O'Gara to start as kicking from the ground is so important but how you can watch that game and say he didn't play badly is beyond me.Our entire backline was either poor or anonymous.

A lot of people seem to see Dominic Ryan as an openside, though to me he seems more like a blindside? If a little lightweight. The Leinster backrow of McLaughlin, Ryan and Ruddock underperformed at the start of this year.

Asoreleftshoulder....Sextons kicking from hand has been atrocious..even Cian HEaly had to do the kicking when he came on during the Italian game...

Note the aimless kick up the middle for the 3rd try, his aimless kicking against Italy (admittedly at the end). He is pointless, at least the two ROG went dead with were attempts to force the Welsh back three back.

I honestly dont think ROG played particularly badly. HAve you looked at the game? In the first half we attacked quite well but came up short. Once he went off Wales completely controlled the game due to fatigue and a lack of any kicking ability or ability to break out (who was OH then remind me?).

Your last line sums it all up...

I still backed O'Gara to start as kicking from the ground is so important but how you can watch that game and say he didn't play badly is beyond me.Our entire backline was either poor or anonymous.

Our Backline was doing fine in the first half (please watch the game again).

dod. the fly halves performance was analyzed. so what. i personally do not think he got ott abuse from anyone.

many leinster players were crap in the world cup. quite aware of that thanks

darcy has been terrible in the green jersey for over 12 months.
Heaslip is in the worst form of his career
Drico is a pale shadow of his former self
Sexton kicked poorly off the ground and was indifferent with ball in hand

On Sexton im sorry a player who cannot do any of what you mention would not have 2 HC medals in which he played starring roles in both. he has not yet delivered this consistency in the green jersey but god willing he can in the coming years. We need him too.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:The reason I think RoG is picked out is because his is one of the few positions where there is a player capable of stepping in and doing an equal or better job.
The only other positions we have this kind of competition is the wing but that isn't nearly as pivotal a position.

And can you explain why Sexton would change his kicking prep in the start of a world cup? I remember ROG getting slated a few years ago changing his kicking style a few years back in the Magners (he was trying to get more distance in his kick) and he reverted back to his old style for HCup & internationals though.

Not a word about Sexton changing his style (someone on Leinster fans was wondering who made him change his kicking style )

And it is a myth that Sexton can get a backline moving. He hasn't done it for Ireland and its Nacewa who is the creative back for Leinster.

Rory re POM - think he will be a big player - one thing he has got over most of his competition for the backrow is passion - he was speechless with rage over losing to the Ospreys - luckily the media training mantra kicked in - all he could manage to say was I'll need to look at it again and then obviously think I better say the Ospreys are a very good side.

I think Mick Galwey said that what made Paul O'Connell stand out when he was a kid first in Munster was he had a kind of competitive rage about him. I think POM has that.

But lets wait and see how he gets on this season before he is set up to knock him down.

DOD wrote:Asoreleftshoulder....Sextons kicking from hand has been atrocious..even Cian HEaly had to do the kicking when he came on during the Italian game...

Good post dd agree with most of that

Really you're clutching at straws,our forwards dominated the 1st half but our backs did nothing.If you can show me one good attacking play in the first half which came from our backs
As for kicking from hand,O'Gara kicked 2 dead against Wales,one terrible cross kick against Russia,one out on the full against Oz and one aimless straight up the middle against Oz which they launched a very dangerous counter attack from.
Even the cross kick McFadden scored from against Russia was poor,he was on his back catching it and made the kick look good.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:The reason I think RoG is picked out is because his is one of the few positions where there is a player capable of stepping in and doing an equal or better job.
The only other positions we have this kind of competition is the wing but that isn't nearly as pivotal a position.

And can you explain why Sexton would change his kicking prep in the start of a world cup? I remember ROG getting slated a few years ago changing his kicking style a few years back in the Magners (he was trying to get more distance in his kick) and he reverted back to his old style for HCup & internationals though.

Not a word about Sexton changing his style (someone on Leinster fans was wondering who made him change his kicking style )

And it is a myth that Sexton can get a backline moving. He hasn't done it for Ireland and its Nacewa who is the creative back for Leinster.

Rory re POM - think he will be a big player - one thing he has got over most of his competition for the backrow is passion - he was speechless with rage over losing to the Ospreys - luckily the media training mantra kicked in - all he could manage to say was I'll need to look at it again and then obviously think I better say the Ospreys are a very good side.

I think Mick Galwey said that what made Paul O'Connell stand out when he was a kid first in Munster was he had a kind of competitive rage about him. I think POM has that.

But lets wait and see how he gets on this season before he is set up to knock him down.

Who said he changed his kicking style,the Leinster kicking coach is on record as saying he didn't.

Is it controversial to say that i thought neither of our 10's had a great RWC? I dont think either will be as good or bad as made out but i dont think either set the world on fire.

The only thing i would say is that for the future of Irish rugby i think Sexton needs picked as the 10 consistently and to a large extent irrespective of whether ROG is playing better.

Standulstermen wrote:Is it controversial to say that i thought neither of our 10's had a great RWC? I dont think either will be as good or bad as made out but i dont think either set the world on fire.

The only thing i would say is that for the future of Irish rugby i think Sexton needs picked as the 10 consistently and to a large extent irrespective of whether ROG is playing better.

Nope I totally aree, I thought neither played any standard of good rugby. Which is why watching Keatley for munster in the meantime for me was a breath of fresh air.

Players to watch from Munster for the next WC. Obviuosly they wont all make it, but talent coming through none the less. I also probably have misse a couple



1. Stehen Archer- prop

2. Mike Sherry - Hooker

3. Ian Nagle -Lock

4. P. O'Mahony - Backrow (captain)

5. Conor Murray / Duncan Williams SH

6. Keatley - fly

7. Simon Zebo- wing - (stil hasnt broekn into Munster team but everytime I see him he looks dangerous

8. Danny Banres - Centre

9. Felix Jones - fb

Standulstermen wrote:Is it controversial to say that i thought neither of our 10's had a great RWC? I dont think either will be as good or bad as made out but i dont think either set the world on fire.

The only thing i would say is that for the future of Irish rugby i think Sexton needs picked as the 10 consistently and to a large extent irrespective of whether ROG is playing better.

Nope think your not far off the mark in fact. Keatley may start to put pressure on Sexton - will be interesting to see how he responds

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Really you're clutching at straws,our forwards dominated the 1st half but our backs did nothing.If you can show me one good attacking play in the first half which came from our backs
As for kicking from hand,O'Gara kicked 2 dead against Wales,one terrible cross kick against Russia,one out on the full against Oz and one aimless straight up the middle against Oz which they launched a very dangerous counter attack from.
Even the cross kick McFadden scored from against Russia was poor,he was on his back catching it and made the kick look good.

Tommy Bowe, Shaggy & Keith Earls make all those crossfield kicks look perfect.

O'Gara was getting the field position for the team to score - just the forwards kept knocking on and failed to ground the ball. And why was O'Gara getting smashed by Welsh backrowers?

haha. the three amigos are here.

"And it is a myth that Sexton can get a backline moving. He hasn't done it for Ireland and its Nacewa who is the creative back for Leinster"

so you are saying that all of Leinsters good back play comes only from Nacewa at fullback?? At least have the good grace to give Sexton a bit of credit in the Heiniken Cup wins. He was tremendous in both finals. He is well able to run a backline. I suppose Elsom won us the first Heiniken Cup single handedly going by that "logic" and i have read that on the old board.

For the more rational posters it certainly will be interesting to see Keatley in the HC if he gets some gamtime. I imagine Rog will remain first choice though. As for WC performance, Rog was better than Sexton for me but not near as superior as made out by some.

Sin é wrote:
Tommy Bowe, Shaggy & Keith Earls make all those crossfield kicks look perfect.

O'Gara was getting the field position for the team to score - just the forwards kept knocking on and failed to ground the ball. And why was O'Gara getting smashed by Welsh backrowers?

It's very easy to make a joke and pretend you're right but if you think a winger should be catching a kick as he's sliding on his arse then I can't debate with you as your just being unrealistic.

O'Gara made a couple of decent kicks and a couple of awful ones,the forwards then are expected to score all on their own?8 v 15 even from 5 metres out isn't good odds.

ok another debate on where we go from here:

Keatley has started well for Munster and good on him. However if Rog retires but remains first choice for Munster in HEC games Keatley will see relatively little game time. Going straight into the international setup will therefore be quite a step up from the Rabo Direct.

The question being is it feasible to look at players who have not had exposure to Heineken Cup rugby and are not regulars for their provinces. Mc Fadden, Cave(if Ulster decide have PWallace and Spence as frist choice for HC games.

dublin_dave wrote:haha. the three amigos are here.

"And it is a myth that Sexton can get a backline moving. He hasn't done it for Ireland and its Nacewa who is the creative back for Leinster"

so you are saying that all of Leinsters good back play comes only from Nacewa at fullback?? At least have the good grace to give Sexton a bit of credit in the Heiniken Cup wins. He was tremendous in both finals. He is well able to run a backline. I suppose Elsom won us the first Heiniken Cup single handedly going by that "logic" and i have read that on the old board.

For the more rational posters it certainly will be interesting to see Keatley in the HC if he gets some gamtime. I imagine Rog will remain first choice though. As for WC performance, Rog was better than Sexton for me but not near as superior as made out by some.

Sexton's contribution to the first HC was minimal - fairplay to him he did get his kicks. Rocky Elsom had a phenomenal season with Leinster (which resulted with him making the dream team of the first 15 years of the competition). I think BOD is the only other Leinster player that made that team says it all really.

Fairplay to Sexton for the 2nd half of the HC final - but don't forget he was the only Leinster back that scored for Leinster (Nathan Hines got a try).

As for Keatley - I don't think there is a need to rush him and putting all that expectation on him. It will take a while for him to come to terms with the difference in expectation between Connacht & Munster in that at Connacht they are used to losing.

So are you just going to forget what you said about Sexton changing his technique.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0913/1224304023382.html

Do you just make this stuff up and hope no one will pull you up on it?

What point are trying to make when you say Sexton was the only Leinster back to score in the HC final,just how many tries did you expect Leinster to score and should they have been parceled out equally amongst the backs?

dublin_dave wrote:ok another debate on where we go from here:

Keatley has started well for Munster and good on him. However if Rog retires but remains first choice for Munster in HEC games Keatley will see relatively little game time. Going straight into the international setup will therefore be quite a step up from the Rabo Direct.

The question being is it feasible to look at players who have not had exposure to Heineken Cup rugby and are not regulars for their provinces. Mc Fadden, Cave(if Ulster decide have PWallace and Spence as frist choice for HC games.

I wouldn't expect to see Keatley being involved in Ireland A for the 6Ns* and then go on tour to NZ and maybe getting a midweek game against the Maori perhaps. By this time next year he could be starting for Munster in HCup games.

*Sexton was playing AIL when he got that chance.

So lets just sum this all up.

O’Gara is good
Sexton is good
Neither of them performed to the peak of their ability in the world cup
Neither of them were the sole reason we lost against Wales

if that was a minimal contribution v Leicester in final and v Munster in semis i would hate to see what a major contribution was. It was a consummate out half performance particularly in the first half. I think Heaslip may have made the team but not sure. yerrah what do these end of year teams matter. Cullen,Jennings and Whitaker also played key roles particularly in terms of leadership we were lacking.

Fair point on Keatley. What age is he again? Having said that it would be beneficial from an Irish perspective if he did see some HC gametime but you have to look after yourselves first obviously and if a retired Rog is a better option so be it.

dublin_dave wrote:if that was a minimal contribution v Leicester in final and v Munster in semis i would hate to see what a major contribution was. It was a consummate out half performance particularly in the first half. I think Heaslip may have made the team but not sure. yerrah what do these end of year teams matter. Cullen,Jennings and Whitaker also played key roles particularly in terms of leadership we were lacking.

Fair point on Keatley. What age is he again? Having said that it would be beneficial from an Irish perspective if he did see some HC gametime but you have to look after yourselves first obviously and if a retired Rog is a better option so be it.

There is usually a stand-out player who makes these games - they do something right. Leicester HCup final it was Elsom. In the Northampton Final (2nd half) it was Sexton. I think Nathan Hines had a major contribution as well and will be missed in Leinster this season.

The team I refer to was selected for the first 15 years of the competition (ROG was selected as best player over the 15 years). Heislip didn't get anywhere near it (bear in mind he would be up against double winning Dayglo). Axel Foley got it - the backrow selected was Elsom, Wallace & Foley. http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/115724.html

They refer to Elsom as being sensational!

Keatley is 24. He also has also started more games for Connacht than Sexton has for Leinster (including 18 Amlin)!

I don't think we have to look after ourselves. If Keatley is good enough, he will displace ROG, if he isn't Munster & Ireland should be looking elsewhere.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:So are you just going to forget what you said about Sexton changing his technique.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0913/1224304023382.html

Do you just make this stuff up and hope no one will pull you up on it?

What point are trying to make when you say Sexton was the only Leinster back to score in the HC final,just how many tries did you expect Leinster to score and should they have been parceled out equally amongst the backs?

So his Leinster coach (a couple of 1000 miles away) claims he hasn't! Surprising that Kidney or some of his Ireland coaches weren't saying the same as I'm sure some of the coaches were asking those questions out there.

I wouldn't take much notice of what they would say. In his first 6Ns when he couldn't kick, he first of all claimed that he had an injury problem, but later admitted that his technique wasn't right.

For the record, I wouldn't say he was lying at the time - just that he didn't know what was wrong until he fixed it.

I think he had shortened his run up in the first couple of games, then the misses got in his head.

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

ah right thought you were referring to the best team of that particular year. elsom in a team of 15 years based on one year in the HC. bit nuts but there you go.

Sin é wrote:
So his Leinster coach (a couple of 1000 miles away) claims he hasn't! Surprising that Kidney or some of his Ireland coaches weren't saying the same as I'm sure some of the coaches were asking those questions out there.

I wouldn't take much notice of what they would say. In his first 6Ns when he couldn't kick, he first of all claimed that he had an injury problem, but later admitted that his technique wasn't right.

For the record, I wouldn't say he was lying at the time - just that he didn't know what was wrong until he fixed it.

I think he had shortened his run up in the first couple of games, then the misses got in his head.

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

Well you and George Hook are the only people I've seen who claim he had changed it,I'd trust his kicking coach ahead of you 2 100% of the time.
So again how many tries should we have scored,maybe Sexton should have passed instead of backing himself to score so he could pad out the stats of his backs?

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

What point are you making exactly? The HC stats show the backs did score more tries than the forwards.

He's doing what he always does,taking one stat out of context and trying to build a whole argument around it.He thinks if he repeats it long enough without replying to any of the points made showing him why it doesn't work that we'll get tired of arguing and he'll win by default.

Stand and Mickado...thanks for the measured and well thought out posts. Let me reciprocate in kind....

I think Sexton on his day is very good..but I now fear he has not the ability to get better than he is at the moment. His leadership in the HC final was immense he had a great game. Would if he could play like that every game.

Where he needs to improve...
1. His kicking out of hand can be aimless at times.
2. In attack he is limited in that he can do the wraparound (very effective) but has limited passing as in skip passing etc. ROG was very good at this (i.e 07 pre WC) but maybe not now.


His kicking will come good. I am not 100% sure about Keatley but he is certainly endearing himself to Munster supporters. I have liked the look of Madigan so far.

Much as I like and admire Gaffney I am glad we will be getting a new backs coach.

Asoreleftshoulder look at the break from Darcy, Kearney and when we were in the Welsh 22. Welsh defence was excellent, in our case the Welsh never really went around us unfortunately they went through us (with ease in the first five minutes...

ah feic it its all done and dusted now.

Mickado wrote:

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

What point are you making exactly? The HC stats show the backs did score more tries than the forwards.

Will that continue when Kearney is fullback for Leinster?

i do love the fact that Cian Healy had to take over the kicking because Sextons was so bad

This running a back line carry on. According to some our backplay is actually good and the issue is at fly half when Sexton starts as he cannot run it

Lets face it our collective backplay from 9-15 is poor. the root cause is either due to gaffney being a very poor backs coach or kidney not giving him the required input with the added caveat of not trying new things.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
So his Leinster coach (a couple of 1000 miles away) claims he hasn't! Surprising that Kidney or some of his Ireland coaches weren't saying the same as I'm sure some of the coaches were asking those questions out there.

I wouldn't take much notice of what they would say. In his first 6Ns when he couldn't kick, he first of all claimed that he had an injury problem, but later admitted that his technique wasn't right.

For the record, I wouldn't say he was lying at the time - just that he didn't know what was wrong until he fixed it.

I think he had shortened his run up in the first couple of games, then the misses got in his head.

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

Well you and George Hook are the only people I've seen who claim he had changed it,I'd trust his kicking coach ahead of you 2 100% of the time.
So again how many tries should we have scored,maybe Sexton should have passed instead of backing himself to score so he could pad out the stats of his backs?

Check out Leinster fans - plenty over there think he did (and one poster is demanding to know who made him).

Keith Earls frequently gets criticised for going for the tryline himself. I don't have an issue with him backing himself. I just don't agree that 'he gets a backline' moving. ROG is way better at that.

Well Leinster were impotent for years when Gaffney was backs coach,Schmidt took over and all of a sudden things changed.

We'll have to wait and see about what Kearney will do,I'd be very surprised if we suddenly stopped scoring tries because we changed our fullback.

So DOD, basically you’re saying he needs to be more consistent, I agree there. But I do think he’s capable of doing it. I don’t think his best performances have been a flash in the pan, I think they’re a sign of things to come.

And yes, Ireland will massively benefit from a new backs coach. Not sure if they could request Schmidt to do it, given that they do employ him I would say it’s a possibility.

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
So his Leinster coach (a couple of 1000 miles away) claims he hasn't! Surprising that Kidney or some of his Ireland coaches weren't saying the same as I'm sure some of the coaches were asking those questions out there.

I wouldn't take much notice of what they would say. In his first 6Ns when he couldn't kick, he first of all claimed that he had an injury problem, but later admitted that his technique wasn't right.

For the record, I wouldn't say he was lying at the time - just that he didn't know what was wrong until he fixed it.

I think he had shortened his run up in the first couple of games, then the misses got in his head.

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

Well you and George Hook are the only people I've seen who claim he had changed it,I'd trust his kicking coach ahead of you 2 100% of the time.
So again how many tries should we have scored,maybe Sexton should have passed instead of backing himself to score so he could pad out the stats of his backs?

Check out Leinster fans - plenty over there think he did (and one poster is demanding to know who made him).

Keith Earls frequently gets criticised for going for the tryline himself. I don't have an issue with him backing himself. I just don't agree that 'he gets a backline' moving. ROG is way better at that.

Ah yes anonymous people who heard George Hook say something and now present as there own knowledge,sounds familiar actually.

I'm going to stick with this http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0913/1224304023382.html it comes from someone who has genuine knowledge of the situation.

You persist with taking one game for your argument instead of a career,you are saying that Sexon scored 2 tries but should have got Leinsters backs to score a few as well.Do all the tries he helped create in the previous rounds as well as in the Magners not count.

rog is a very good distributor off both sides agreed. his skip passing is nice but not as effective against the physicality and line speed that the top teams have nowadays. This is as much to do with Darcy and O Driscoll lacking the pace and breaking ability of yesteryear.

A few of us called for a more direct running centre and were shot down (be it Bowe, Downey (ducks for cover hahaha) or Spence)

Mickado, DD I agree completely. I think ROG has had his day. Will be a nice backup to have going forward. With defences the way they are now his time has passed a little....

Sexton does need to become more consistent. I guess the one thing you could say for ROG is that (WC 07 excepted) his consistency over the last 10 years has been his main stay.

I don't think the problem of "getting the backline moving" lies with either Sexton or ROG anyways.. with D'Arcy and BOD in the midfield there is no creativity, power or pace to speak of and that is where the problem lies. When you look at our back three we potentially have the best in the world (yes, the best) but they aren't being used properly.

dublin_dave wrote:rog is a very good distributor off both sides agreed. his skip passing is nice but not as effective against the physicality and line speed that the top teams have nowadays. This is as much to do with Darcy and O Driscoll lacking the pace and breaking ability of yesteryear.

That is exactly the point I've been trying to make for the past 6 weeks

Your opinion doesn't count. You're only the token Ulsterman.

Thomond wrote:Your opinion doesn't count. You're only the token Ulsterman.

SUFTUM!

I don't think it really matters anymore about ROG and sexton

Rog is gone now, it wasnt that he was bad against wales it was that they figured out his weakness, cut off his passing option and make him run with ball in hand, from there a ligth breeze could have tackled him and it was the end of us getting first phase ball out wide.

had he been on the bench and the same tactic had been employed on sexton, i bet you he would have figured something out chips in behind or having bowe as first receiver.

i dont know why people are talking about leinster getting there backline moving, we will be grand and will try our damdest to retain the heineken cup, hopefully rog can drag munster out of there group this time.

All I really want to say is that its just so disappointing. I am still not over it....watching the game yesterday especially the first half when we were putting them under pressure I was getting all excited and thinking they were going to score a try.....how sad is that. ...

DOD wrote:All I really want to say is that its just so disappointing. I am still not over it....watching the game yesterday especially the first half when we were putting them under pressure I was getting all excited and thinking they were going to score a try.....how sad is that. ...

+1 DOD. I'm still devasted. I was so feckin depressed on Monday when the reality hit that our RWC was over. This is the worst defeat to stomach ever. Even worse than when Clerc scored that try that cost us the GS.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:
So his Leinster coach (a couple of 1000 miles away) claims he hasn't! Surprising that Kidney or some of his Ireland coaches weren't saying the same as I'm sure some of the coaches were asking those questions out there.

I wouldn't take much notice of what they would say. In his first 6Ns when he couldn't kick, he first of all claimed that he had an injury problem, but later admitted that his technique wasn't right.

For the record, I wouldn't say he was lying at the time - just that he didn't know what was wrong until he fixed it.

I think he had shortened his run up in the first couple of games, then the misses got in his head.

As for Leinster parcelling out the attack - I'd just expect more backs to be on the score sheet than forwards for a team that is meant to have a great backline.

Well you and George Hook are the only people I've seen who claim he had changed it,I'd trust his kicking coach ahead of you 2 100% of the time.
So again how many tries should we have scored,maybe Sexton should have passed instead of backing himself to score so he could pad out the stats of his backs?

Check out Leinster fans - plenty over there think he did (and one poster is demanding to know who made him).

Keith Earls frequently gets criticised for going for the tryline himself. I don't have an issue with him backing himself. I just don't agree that 'he gets a backline' moving. ROG is way better at that.

Ah yes anonymous people who heard George Hook say something and now present as there own knowledge,sounds familiar actually.

I'm going to stick with this http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0913/1224304023382.html it comes from someone who has genuine knowledge of the situation.

You persist with taking one game for your argument instead of a career,you are saying that Sexon scored 2 tries but should have got Leinsters backs to score a few as well.Do all the tries he helped create in the previous rounds as well as in the Magners not count.

ha, ha - they hate George Hook (and anyone who criticises a leinster player) on leinsterfans.

The issue with the career is that invariably when Sexton shines for Leinster, Nacewa is also present. It will be interesting to see how great the Leinster backline will be when Nacewa isn't in the starting lineup.

Even in Sexton's best game of the last year (England), Ireland only scored 3 tries. And his 2nd best game Ireland scored 0 tries (against Australia).

D24tress wrote:I don't think it really matters anymore about ROG and sexton

Rog is gone now, it wasnt that he was bad against wales it was that they figured out his weakness, cut off his passing option and make him run with ball in hand, from there a ligth breeze could have tackled him and it was the end of us getting first phase ball out wide.

had he been on the bench and the same tactic had been employed on sexton, i bet you he would have figured something out chips in behind or having bowe as first receiver.

i dont know why people are talking about leinster getting there backline moving, we will be grand and will try our damdest to retain the heineken cup, hopefully rog can drag munster out of there group this time.

Don't think so - IRFU are doing a big PR job here to try and keep him. Note in the piece below how they are bigging him up about kicking points in Australia game etc. The IRFU do not want him to retire now ... and even O'Gara is saying that he won't let Ireland down if they are stuck.


http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/24443.php

O'Gara, who is now a veteran of three World Cups, was again asked about his future with the Ireland team. During the tournament in New Zealand he had to clarify comments he made in a post-match TV interview when he said that he will 'be done with Ireland in a few weeks'.

Speaking today, he said: "I haven't thought about long term. An awful lot happens in a week. Irish rugby's been so good to me and you don't walk away from that. You see what's in store.

"Then the other side of it is that I'm 34 and there's new talent coming through. We'll see what happens, but you don't ever turn your back on a great country."

In the past two months O'Gara has made five starts for Ireland, including three against Russia, Italy and Wales at the World Cup.

He also kicked the match-winning penalties in the historic victory over Australia, and his assured place-kicking in recent weeks has pushed his Irish points-scoring record to 1075 points.

It is clear that he has been energised by Ireland's achievement of finishing top of a World Cup pool for the first time, although the quarter-final defeat to Wales was tough to take for all involved.

The positive feelings surrounding Ireland's Kiwi adventure will help when the Wellington loss is mulled over in in the coming days. O'Gara will certainly have happier memories of New Zealand 2011 compared to the side's exit from the last World Cup in France.

He added: "I remember coming back home four years ago and the feeling was completely different. Yet, the next runout we got at Musgrave Park when we played for Munster was something we'll never forget.

"Irish people are really loyal people. The team are hurting. It's disappointing but there's been some great highlights along the way, as I said, and you don't forget them either."

Sin é wrote:
The issue with the career is that invariably when Sexton shines for Leinster, Nacewa is also present. It will be interesting to see how great the Leinster backline will be when Nacewa isn't in the starting lineup.

Even in Sexton's best game of the last year (England), Ireland only scored 3 tries. And his 2nd best game Ireland scored 0 tries (against Australia).

Well lets wait until Nacewa is gone before jumping to conclusions.You're insinuating that it will all suddenly fall apart without anything to back it up.Some people thought we'd struggle when Elsom left but we replaced him and are stronger than ever.I don't see why the same thing won't happen when Nacewa decides to finish up.

roddersm wrote:

DOD wrote:All I really want to say is that its just so disappointing. I am still not over it....watching the game yesterday especially the first half when we were putting them under pressure I was getting all excited and thinking they were going to score a try.....how sad is that. ...

+1 DOD. I'm still devasted. I was so feckin depressed on Monday when the reality hit that our RWC was over. This is the worst defeat to stomach ever. Even worse than when Clerc scored that try that cost us the GS.

I'm still crestfallen over it. Saturday was a very bleak day, herself was out with work, i was going to head out with the lads, but i just didn't have the heart. I just stayed in and thought about what might have been. I found it far more devestating than the missed GS in 07. Put's all that "don't stop believing" crap into perspective.

Sin é wrote:
Don't think so - IRFU are doing a big PR job here to try and keep him. Note in the piece below how they are bigging him up about kicking points in Australia game etc. The IRFU do not want him to retire now ... and even O'Gara is saying that he won't let Ireland down if they are stuck.

I think thats the best thing all round. O'Gara and the older players need to remain available for Ireland selection. For one thing it's in their contract and they can't remain at their province as an IQ if they are not available.

However the Irish management should be actively looking to select the younger guys, where they are playing well and where there is a 50/50 call I think they should be erring on the side of youth.

Experience is still important but we need to build the team around players who will be in their prime in 2015 and new leaders are unlikely to emerge with BOD, POC and ROG calling the shots in all the big games.