Are Wales now officially a "BRITISH TEAM"

Just wondered

Always were surely? But I think your point is that will all the Scotland and English supporters get behind you?

As an English supporter myself, I think this transformed Welsh team is a beautiful thing to watch.

I am totally behind this Welsh team to go all the way now, and it looks like they've got the tools to do it. Good luck with the nerves Welsh fans!

In terms of that Wales is in the British Isles geographically then yes. But then so are Ireland... geographically speaking.

In terms of Wales being in the UK then yes again.

Or are you just having a dig to suggest most English fans are now going to support Wales because they out?

I guess that is down to the individual.

As I have Irish & Scottish family I would have cheered them on, but seeing as they are all out I feel no obligation to support anyone, but what the heck, Wales are British afterall, What What old boy!

I think the topic heading should be 'Is Wales now officially a "BRITISH TEAM"'.

But besides that minor grammatical error, I think Wales always were a British team? As in part of the British Isle?

OzT.

We are a race of people not technically defined as a country so I did not use "Is". (May well still be grammatically incorrect, but hey live and learn)

I was referencing the tendency of the English press to adopt and claim the success of others. Hence Andy Murray the tennis player becomes British when he wins and reverts to being Scottish when he does not.

Tongue in cheek really

As was mine finbarthedog... tongue in cheek, was just kidding round the oft use 'are xxx' when should be 'is xxx', something I get picked up on quite often myself!

The problem with the rest of the world and our home nations is that, they dont really get if we are different countries or not. Its all abit confusiing. There are no seperate dutch teams(allthough the netherlands is actually split up(holland is part of it), there are also no seperate spainish teams even though there country is also split up. We obviously cretaed these sports so we have historical teams that move forward. But we are not really different countries by law(discounting ireland offcourse). Then ireland throw more issues into it all as there is no NI team. So even in the irish team you could have 'british' players playing for them.

In England the second page headline was "Great Britain to meet France in historic semi" following the front page title "French delight as shambolic Samoa crash out of QF's"

Well, you've got the British Isles, so if you are from them then you can be called British unless you are from Ireland when you do or don't depending on whether you are from Northern Ireland (and which tradition) which is part of the UK or Eire which was but isn't.

Clear?

mystiroakey wrote:The problem with the rest of the world and our home nations is that, they dont really get if we are different countries or not. Its all abit confusiing. There are no seperate dutch teams(allthough the netherlands is actually split up(holland is part of it), there are also no seperate spainish teams even though there country is also split up. We obviously cretaed these sports so we have historical teams that move forward. But we are not really different countries by law(discounting ireland offcourse). Then ireland throw more issues into it all as there is no NI team. So even in the irish team you could have 'british' players playing for them.

Clearly you have missed the last ten years of devolution. Scotland is a seperate legal entity as is Wales from England. We have clear cultural distinctions between our different nations as well as linguistic. We are all British geographically but dont think the union means we are all the same country we arent.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:The problem with the rest of the world and our home nations is that, they dont really get if we are different countries or not. Its all abit confusiing. There are no seperate dutch teams(allthough the netherlands is actually split up(holland is part of it), there are also no seperate spainish teams even though there country is also split up. We obviously cretaed these sports so we have historical teams that move forward. But we are not really different countries by law(discounting ireland offcourse). Then ireland throw more issues into it all as there is no NI team. So even in the irish team you could have 'british' players playing for them.

Clearly you have missed the last ten years of devolution. Scotland is a seperate legal entity as is Wales from England. We have clear cultural distinctions between our different nations as well as linguistic. We are all British geographically but dont think the union means we are all the same country we arent.

Erm nope i know how different we all are- just making the point about the rest of the world not getting it. You obviously dont understand how split the spainish are - It really is no different than our isles- yet they play as one

Hi there..new to the site. There are a couple of posters suggesting that Ireland could be called a British team...are those serious comments or are the posters doing this to annoy Irish people?

oh also how are we separte entities by law- we are only british nationals in other countries- we only have british embassys and we only have british passports(well actually uk passports)

in Northern irelna dits different they can choose what they want to be or even be both.

anyway i really dont want to get into this but scotland and wales have not devolved(is that how i should put it) Scotland may and have seperate laws about alot of things as it stands, but then so do the regions of spain we all also know that we are culturaly different, but then so do the spainish- but from an outsiders perspective and on the international scene we are the same, as are the spainish- you are just as ignorant to them as they are to us in a way. the only difference between us and spain is that we have certain seperate sporting teams, they dont!

"Hi there..new to the site. There are a couple of posters suggesting that Ireland could be called a British team...are those serious comments or are the posters doing this to annoy Irish people?"

nope they are a seperate team, but one of the home nations(historical) they also play in the british and irish lions. And they also could have 'britsh' players(theoritically) playing for them(if for instance a northern irish citizen classed themself british or irish and british) because in rugby ireland plays as one.

But no ireland is not a british team.

I understand how spain is divided which is for completly different sociological and anthropological and historical reasons to the division of the uk. Spain has always been a federal system with autonomy in the regions; yet the catalans are hardly happy about being Spanish now are they? nor are the basque seperatists.

Westminsters final recognition of our nations differences has taken a hell of a long time legally. Our sporting teams seperate identity has been part of that struggle for legal equality in Britain. Nevertheless my point was quite clear we are quite seperate entities legally as part of the UK. Just as the UK is a seperate entity to France within the EU.

Both Wales and Scotland have devolved administrations and have done since 1999. Its quite simple we are devolved. Scotland has its parliament back and we have the senedd. That is a clear legal distinction.

Wales is part of Great Britain. It's a British team. And has been for quite some time.

Whether you call them that depends on the context.

Wales is the only British team left in the RWC.
Wales is the only British rugby union team to have played South Africa in the RWC 2011.
Wales is the last of the British representatives in the RWC.
Wales has more than British players and coaches in its travelling party.
Wales was the last British team to win a Grand Slam and could be the first British side to win against New Zealand in a Rugby World Cup.
Wales do Britain proud in reaching the RWC semi-final for the first time this century.
Wales is putting the great back into Great Britain.
We're all so proud that a British team is still in the RWC despite the supposed dominance of the competition by Southern Hemisphere teams.
It's great to British players running with the ball and scoring tries compared to their kick-obsessed and defense-minded South African and Australian counterparts.
Britain is in with a chance to win the Rugby World Cup for a second time in less than a decade.
British teams are always there at the knockout stages of the competition, and could have another finalist in the comp by next Monday.

It's great to be British - look at the fantastic company you can keep.

ok tycoes no problems - my point was allways how we are seen to the rest of the world tho. Also i am sure we both know that a typoical welshman is no different from a typical catalan when it comes to someone calling you british(or even english) or him spainish

its obviously not a geographical question and i think your trying to be a smart arse if youve suggested it. it is in the same context that andy murray is scottish when hes losing but the british number 1 when hes doing well. imo no, we are a home nation but i will always see the national team as WELSH. its part of our identity.

Born British.. PRIVELIGED TO BE WELSH

wonder_man wrote:its obviously not a geographical question and i think your trying to be a smart arse if youve suggested it. it is in the same context that andy murray is scottish when hes losing but the british number 1 when hes doing well. imo no, we are a home nation but i will always see the national team as WELSH. its part of our identity.

Born British.. PRIVELIGED TO BE WELSH

whats your point , that you as a welshman only sees murray as british when he wins, but scottish when he fails.

no the way that the english press percieves him. my main point is just that i was just annoyed that people were suggesting this is a geographical question when it is obviously a question of perception and feeling

wonder_man wrote:no the way that the english press percieves him. my main point is just that i was just annoyed that people were suggesting this is a geographical question when it is obviously a question of perception and feeling

oh i see your attacking the english- right sorry i misunderstood.

we may have got sidetracked into a more interesting and intellegent debate, so sorry about that, lets just carry on with the childs play shall we!

not the english themselves, but the press often annoys me.. so if you consider that attacking the english, guilty

its british press- and if there is only one british team left in the event- who are the press going to talk about!

do you need a calculater- all this murray british when he wins, scottish when he looses talk is just a chinese whisper- have you ever even witnessed it.

Murray gets exeptional support at wimbledon- win or loose.

mystiroakey wrote:its british press- and if there is only one british team left in the event- who are the press going to talk about!

do you need a calculater- all this murray british when he wins, scottish when he looses talk is just a chinese whisper- have you ever even witnessed it.

Murray gets exeptional support at wimbledon- win or loose.

Well i hope you are right because all anyone in the press seems to be interested in right now is England's exit.

your missing the entire point of what im saying and the thread,,, sorry i havent got my point through to you, seems clear enough to me though

Gatts wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:its british press- and if there is only one british team left in the event- who are the press going to talk about!

do you need a calculater- all this murray british when he wins, scottish when he looses talk is just a chinese whisper- have you ever even witnessed it.

Murray gets exeptional support at wimbledon- win or loose.

Well i hope you are right because all anyone in the press seems to be interested in right now is England's exit.

come thursday it will all be about wales- i flaming hope anyway. Time to kill the trash talk

wonder_man wrote:your missing the entire point of what im saying and the thread,,, sorry i havent got my point through to you, seems clear enough to me though

nope got it loud and clear. Its just a boring subject that holds little truth, just pointing that out

I'll have to disagree, it's about national identity and to some people it's quite important

We always were!
We voluntarily merged with England in the 1500's, legally the Welsh became english then.
We are also Celts, so if we win we can all take a little glory!

Before you go on about being English Welsh Scottish or British you only had that identity because you happened to be born in that particular country.
Ask yourself what have you done to make your country proud of you? Or are you just bragging about your nationality due to the achievements of others.
I'm a Welshman who made a career in the British Army and do you know what that taught me ? It expanded my horizons it made me realise that yes we may have our cultural differences and not all of us would consider English as being our first language but at the end of the day a foreigner would have a hard time knowing the difference between a Sassenach Jock or Taff.

Doesn't matter what the rest of 'Britain' thinks of us - our boys have earned respect from the rest of the rugby world playing positive rugby and conducting themselves professionally off the field.

The rest of Britain isn't qualified to offer an opinion at the mo.

wonder_man wrote:I'll have to disagree, it's about national identity and to some people it's quite important

you explained loud and clear that the subject was about the english press calling a winning team/individual british when he/they win or from there country(discounting england in this i presume) when they fail.

If you want to explain to me that national identity is important- then hey i 100% agree with you, it may be an outdated concept- but i am a very proud englishman all the same, as you are a very proud welshman.

Cymroglan wrote:Before you go on about being English Welsh Scottish or British you only had that identity because you happened to be born in that particular country.
Ask yourself what have you done to make your country proud of you? Or are you just bragging about your nationality due to the achievements of others.
I'm a Welshman who made a career in the British Army and do you know what that taught me ? It expanded my horizons it made me realise that yes we may have our cultural differences and not all of us would consider English as being our first language but at the end of the day a foreigner would have a hard time knowing the difference between a Sassenach Jock or Taff.

spot on

ok then perhaps my murray link was a poor way of trying to make a point that this is not about geography but identity.
All I'll say is that as a Welshman i don't consider Wales to be representing Britain just because the other home nations are out, in the same way i didn't feel represented by England in 03/07. I see Wales as representing that odd sticky outy bit on the the UKs west coast, not the rest of it.

I will not be supporting Wales or France....i have no affinity to either. I hope its a good game, but i dont care who wins.

wonder_man wrote:ok then perhaps my murray link was a poor way of trying to make a point that this is not about geography but identity.
All I'll say is that as a Welshman i don't consider Wales to be representing Britain just because the other home nations are out, in the same way i didn't feel represented by England in 03/07. I see Wales as representing that odd sticky outy bit on the the UKs west coast, not the rest of it.

that really does go without saying dude- We arnt going to pretend we dont have our own team- anyway good luck

Cymroglan wrote:Before you go on about being English Welsh Scottish or British you only had that identity because you happened to be born in that particular country.
Ask yourself what have you done to make your country proud of you? Or are you just bragging about your nationality due to the achievements of others.
I'm a Welshman who made a career in the British Army and do you know what that taught me ? It expanded my horizons it made me realise that yes we may have our cultural differences and not all of us would consider English as being our first language but at the end of the day a foreigner would have a hard time knowing the difference between a Sassenach Jock or Taff.

Fair point which I agree with but I would like to say some of us in the West take exception to the phrase taff which is an insult to the welsh, I understand that forces use these terms and Im not about to denigrate their service to the UK. However its not a very nice word its an insult.

TycroesOsprey us North Walians have even less affinity with the term Taff to us it's a stretch of dirty water in South Wales
I used the term just to get a point across.

wow i didnt think you guys hated that word so much.

Limies, poms sasanarchs- call me what you want i really dont care lol.

Why do you hate it so much guys?

I don't understand what the problem is here, Some of the Welsh are getting grumpy because the rest of Britain is behind them to beat the French and make your first RWC final appearance, wheres the harm in that?

I supported most of the Welsh players when they wore the red Lions shirt.

Some posters need to get a grip as normal service will be resumed once the 6 nations starts.

No worries Cymro I have a personal dislike of the word after having it thrown at me working in London for 20 years.

Oakey type "taffy is a welshman taffy is a thief" into google and read on.

Whats wrong with Taff?

I wouldn't watch Dads Army then!

The children's nursery rhyme 'Taffy was a Welshman' has its origins in Celtic Mythology. Amaethon (from which the name Taffy is derived) was the God of Welsh Agriculture. This Celtic God Amaethon was renown for stealing a variety of wild life from the god Arawn, the Lord of the Otherworld. The association between Taffy and the thief is thus explained...

If we look at the above then it cant be to bad- But all the same the nursery ryme is abit flaming odd isnt it- supposedly sung on st georges day. But then these days name me an englishman that even knows what day st georges day is anyway!!

St what?

Dunno where you got that oakey but,

Amaethon was a benevolent god whilst Arawn as lord of the uAnnuvin is not a nice god who keeps ideas such as farming and fire for himself.

The phrase has also been used by the political right in westminster on two occasions directed at a welsh leader who wished to raise taxes. DLG who wanted to rasie taxes for pensions in 1906 and Kinnoock who wanted to rasie taxes for whatever labour promised in 91.

As for Dads Army, I undertsand that times were different, for instance Love thy neighbour is unlikely to get aired today guven its overt discriminatory language.

well you can call me a taffy, cos technically i am, bit of a small area though, its like calling all englishmen scousers

Jeebus folks, I am more than happy for Wales to be where they are in the competition. They prepared right, and have been shining ambassadors for themselves as a team, and as a country.

My 'default' position is always to support a country that is part of the British & Irish Lions if England go out, which has now happened. Wales will have my support

so whats the name you guys call us english from historical times then?

mistiroakey - normally Saes; an abbreviation of Saesneg (English). I am not offended by that at all.

Zzzzz time for me.

Nos da.