How Good Is France?

by finbarthedog Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:10 pm

The question is actually how good were France on Saturday? Did Englands abject performance simply make them look better than they actually are?. They did seem to fade and allow England back into it. They certainly do not seem to have the same levels of fitness that the Welsh boys have attained.

Wales France is so hard to call. We were good but yet again won without really dominating. It was similar (but not as bad) as the warm up against England at the Millenium, which if we are honest that was a "how the Fk did we win that" game. 25% possession !!!!!!! makes the SA Aus q/f look evenly contested.

The weaknesses in our game are still there, we have merely found a way to work around them with a combination of scarey determination and self-belief. Our inability to claim an even share of the ball in the right areas of the pitch will at some point do for us and strategies to deal with this must be put in place. Ireland spent more than twice as long in our 22 as we did in theirs.

If we allow France the same 22 time domination are we in trouble, or are France still the spent force they have looked up untill Saturday?

by finbarthedog Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:12 pm

Apologies to our more educated contributors, I did of course mean

"How good is France?"

by doctornickolas Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:33 pm

I'm not scared about France to be honest.

They scored 2 tries against England and both of them were as a result of pathetic defending by England. The first where Foden just turned his back and let Clerc through and the second when France created a 2 on 4 'overlap' and England still couldn't defend it.

Then they went to sleep for the second half and only scored a drop goal to Englands 2 tries.

They looked most dangerous when they had a penalty to kick.

I honestly believe we just need to do what we did against Ireland.

I would like us to have more ball though. With a bit more possession we would have beaten Ireland comfortably.

My only other concern is Priestland's kicking. He missed a couple of relatively easy kicks over the last couple of games which is worrying.

by mystiroakey Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:35 pm

erm they ahvent been convincing for 80 mins. England matched the try count, but france made less mistakes- they got taken apart by the kiwis because they didnt take the chances when they had them. Id say they are an average france team at present

by doctor_grey Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:36 pm

My friend, the long and short of it are France are not what we have seen from them in the past. They have played consistently mediocre for a while now, including the 6N. Remeber the loss to Italy?

The question from a Welsh perspective is whether they can actually lift themselves for one more match. My guess is no, but then again, they are France. But, if I were a betting man, I would bet the ranch on Wales by 7+.

by Taylorman Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:55 pm

" I would bet the ranch on Wales by 7+"
morning doc... Too much time in the good old US of A?
Get them horses rounded up!

by Cymroglan Mon 10 Oct 2011, 7:03 pm

I'm just watching the England France game again very poor defending for the Vincent Clerc try.

by Cymroglan Mon 10 Oct 2011, 7:41 pm

England could have won that game if they had managed to get the basics right their passing from hand was very poor at times.
Having the best player on the bench did not help matters either.

by aucklandlaurie Mon 10 Oct 2011, 8:49 pm

How good are France?

Ask Tonga....

by doctor_grey Mon 10 Oct 2011, 9:27 pm

Taylorman wrote:" I would bet the ranch on Wales by 7+"
morning doc... Too much time in the good old US of A?
Get them horses rounded up!

Erm, good point. People use the 'bet the ranch' expression here all the time. I have been living in the New York area, which is very different than cow country.

But next weekend, I descend into the nether rings of hell. I am actually going to Texas. where men are men and cows are nervous. My Rugby club here is going for a tournament in Houston. I will count the guns I see and let you know. I will also count the number of people who:
- wear those cowboy hats, but look like they don't know which end of the horse to mount (no pun intended)
- talk in that funny accent
- drive pick-up trucks
- look like they might be just a bit too closely related, if you know what I mean (daddy says I'm the best.....)

by Cymroglan Mon 10 Oct 2011, 11:31 pm

France v Tonga clock on red score Tonga 19 France 9 to go through to the quarters France needed at least a losing bonus point.
Ref awards a penalty underneath the posts all France needed to do was kick a simple penalty that would have given them the bonus point but they went for the scrum.
Fortunately for them they managed to score a try their lack of communication could easily have resulted in them going home.

by newbie Tue 11 Oct 2011, 12:11 am

They didnt really need the bonus point only if Canada were going to trouble the all blacks which was never going to happen. Having said that it seemed strange but they did score the try with ease.

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011, 1:26 am

France are better than you lot think. They beat Ireland comfortably home and away in the warm-ups and had England beaten in the 1st half. They dominated England physically upfront, which we have yet to do. They have quality across the park and are also big and heavy. They will not be outmuscled or outboshed.

Lievremont has made some weird calls - having Parra at 10 is like us suddenly putting Mike Phillips there - and that has detracted from performance and morale. But we can't afford to give them 60% possession and territory. They have too much talent for that. Nor can we afford to give them hatfuls of penalties in our half. Yachvilli is a deadly kicker.

by Converter Tue 11 Oct 2011, 1:35 am

If Imanol H has the game he played against England he is going to ask a lot of questions of the young Welsh back row. Dusatoir and Bonnaire are also men who have been at the coal face a long time. The Welsh are rightly vaunted for their back row and especially the manner in which they dealt with the Irish back row. But now they are now very much into a psychological phase of the tournament and perhaps it will come down to no baggage, little experience (Welsh backrow) v. lots of baggage, lots of experience (French back row).

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011, 1:44 am

As for the V. Clerc being down to poor tackling - yes, it was. But so were the JD2 and Phillips tries we scored against Ireland, if looked at in isolation.

Good teams make other teams look bad, by stretching, tiring and outthinking them.

by Glas a du Tue 11 Oct 2011, 7:04 am

finbarthedog wrote:Apologies to our more educated contributors, I did of course mean

"How good is France?"

How good are the French team?

France is a wonderful place. Skiing resorts and the Riviera a couple of hours drive apart. Excellent food and wine and hospitality if you can be bothered to try and converse in their language and are not English.

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011, 8:49 am

Parra at 10 again!!! Yippee!

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 9:42 am

Glas a du wrote:
finbarthedog wrote:Apologies to our more educated contributors, I did of course mean

"How good is France?"

How good are the French team?

France is a wonderful place. Skiing resorts and the Riviera a couple of hours drive apart. Excellent food and wine and hospitality if you can be bothered to try and converse in their language and are not English.

Je vais vendredi pour un peu de golf de Nice trip-Je suis toutefois en anglais mais sera toujours essayer de converser en langue il ya

by funnyExiledScot Tue 11 Oct 2011, 10:26 am

France have some great players and a great leadership group within the squad. The squad should be a match for any side. However, they have the worst coach in international sport (including De Villiers) and that has hindered them. However, like England in 2007, it appears that they no longer listen to anything he has to say, and Dusatoir, Nallet, Servat and co now appear to have the reigns.

Great players, ok team, average coach - that's how I sum up France.

Very good players, great team, great coach, that's how I'd sum up Wales.

I really really want Wales to win this.

by rugbyfan Tue 11 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

But how good CAN France be?
If France play to their potential and Wales do aswell - who would win?

What game it would be to watch!

by dublin_dave Tue 11 Oct 2011, 11:15 am

france are an enigma wrapped in a question mark.

lots of ability and on their day sensational. if france play to their potential and start trinh duc i think they will win.

should be a cracking game. cannot wait

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 11:27 am

"ut how good CAN France be?
If France play to their potential and Wales do aswell - who would win?

What game it would be to watch! "

are france that good- I even think that england on there day would beat france on there day. and so would wales- its wales to loose. France have not looked good in any game i can even remeber- all this enigma stuff sounds nuts to me. there play good , average or shocking but in recent times never really amazing

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 11:29 am

mystiroakey wrote:"ut how good CAN France be?
If France play to their potential and Wales do aswell - who would win?

What game it would be to watch! "

are france that good- I even think that england on there day would beat france on there day. and so would wales- its wales to loose. France have not looked amazing in any game i can even remeber- all this enigma stuff sounds nuts to me. there play good , average or shocking but in recent times never really amazing

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011, 5:05 pm

Hard for the Anglophone media to accept, but France are the easily most successful NH rugby team of the modern era. Since the second world war, or since the turn of the century they have the most grand slams and the most victories and the best record against the Tri-nations.

This is not a vintage France team, but it is big, strong and nasty, with a scattering of game-breakers in the backs.

Heymans can't get into the 15. Poitrenaud, a superb player, didn't even make the squad. Servat, Nallet, Dusutoir, Hardinoquay, Rougerie - all battle-hardened warriors. Clerc and Medard - tricky speedsters. Trinh-Duc- a top-quality 10. Yachvili - maybe the best goal-kicker in the NH currently.

We underestimate these guys at our peril.

by Glas a du Tue 11 Oct 2011, 5:10 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Glas a du wrote:
finbarthedog wrote:Apologies to our more educated contributors, I did of course mean

"How good is France?"

How good are the French team?

France is a wonderful place. Skiing resorts and the Riviera a couple of hours drive apart. Excellent food and wine and hospitality if you can be bothered to try and converse in their language and are not English.

Je vais vendredi pour un peu de golf de Nice trip-Je suis toutefois en anglais mais sera toujours essayer de converser en langue il ya

Bon chance a Nice Mystiroakey. Mais, plus chance de Pays des Galles!

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue 11 Oct 2011, 5:16 pm

De quoi vous parlez? Vouz n'avez pas de honte?!

France are a game of roulette. You never quite know where the ball will land with them or on which side you can bet. But if you´re a statistics man, you´ll have noticed that they haven´t been playing well of late.

Does that mean they will play badly this weekend? Probably. Will I bet my house on them losing? Definitely not? Are they capable of self-destruction? Quite likely? Are they capable of brilliance? Yes, but unlikely. Should Wales win? Probably.

How good is the French rugby team? As good as they can be bad but tending towards bad at the moment. Simple really.

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 6:25 pm

samuraidragon wrote:Hard for the Anglophone media to accept, but France are the easily most successful NH rugby team of the modern era. Since the second world war, or since the turn of the century they have the most grand slams and the most victories and the best record against the Tri-nations.

This is not a vintage France team, but it is big, strong and nasty, with a scattering of game-breakers in the backs.

Heymans can't get into the 15. Poitrenaud, a superb player, didn't even make the squad. Servat, Nallet, Dusutoir, Hardinoquay, Rougerie - all battle-hardened warriors. Clerc and Medard - tricky speedsters. Trinh-Duc- a top-quality 10. Yachvili - maybe the best goal-kicker in the NH currently.

We underestimate these guys at our peril.

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 6:27 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
samuraidragon wrote:Hard for the Anglophone media to accept, but France are the easily most successful NH rugby team of the modern era. Since the second world war, or since the turn of the century they have the most grand slams and the most victories and the best record against the Tri-nations.

This is not a vintage France team, but it is big, strong and nasty, with a scattering of game-breakers in the backs.

Heymans can't get into the 15. Poitrenaud, a superb player, didn't even make the squad. Servat, Nallet, Dusutoir, Hardinoquay, Rougerie - all battle-hardened warriors. Clerc and Medard - tricky speedsters. Trinh-Duc- a top-quality 10. Yachvili - maybe the best goal-kicker in the NH currently.

We underestimate these guys at our peril.

firstly they are not the most successfull nh side. england are very close in the 6n's stakes, have a better record againbst them, and a better world cup record

secndly we never underestimate them

by Guest Tue 11 Oct 2011, 6:28 pm

just a quick reminder if you're going to write sentences in a foreign language, please provide a translation also. Thanks.

by Shifty Tue 11 Oct 2011, 6:39 pm

Considering they spanked us by 19 points the last time we played them and we haven't beaten them since 2008, I think Wales need to be very careful.

Regardless of France being a bit iffy youd have to assume that they will be ready for Wales and at this point in the tournament you won;t see them simply going to sleep, and they wont go into the game complacement.

I reckon France to sneak it.

by Taffineastbourne Tue 11 Oct 2011, 6:52 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:just a quick reminder if you're going to write sentences in a foreign language, please provide a translation also. Thanks.

Can we have that in Welsh please?

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 6:54 pm

I AM GOING for wales by 7 plus. France dont look great to me and perhaps had it abit to easy against england- if england didnt make the handling errors they/we did , they wouldnt have won. they also got ruined by NZ and even tonga!!. france are gonna be hit hard by the welsh and they look like they have no fear- i am a betting man and i will have a punt on this. I am not trying to blow smoke up wales asses here at all- its just the way i see it. Wales have played well in erevy game- france havent put on one good 80 mins so far, and all this enigma stuff is very hard to believe at present- this is not an amazing french team- far from it!

I wasnt suprised they beat england, but i will be very suprised if they beat wales on current form

by Guest Tue 11 Oct 2011, 7:01 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
rugbydreamer wrote:just a quick reminder if you're going to write sentences in a foreign language, please provide a translation also. Thanks.
Can we have that in Welsh please?

I shall attempt it, I've no doubt Welsh posters on here will correct me on my grammer and spelling Wink

atgofiad cyflum, os wyt ti'n mynd i ysgrifennu mewn iaith dieithr, rhoi trosiad hefyd os gwelwch yn dda. Diolch.

by Gatts Tue 11 Oct 2011, 7:01 pm

The biggest challenge we face with france is uncertainty. We simply cannot predict which France will turn up. There are a myriad of tells which can inform that, their dismal loss v Tonga, their traditional outstanding perf in 1 knockout game at RWC, their inherent enigma, the disharmony in camp, the best counterattack in the world.

But we really don't know and that might set us free to pursue our own very effective gameplan. I read somewhere on here recently that Wales had been in knockout rugby since we lost to SA and it is true. That has served us well. The defeat to SA mean't we had to win every game and in doing so we conquered those PI demons which set us up to defeat Ireland.

The key to France is to continue to express our game. To go out as we did v Ireland and take the game by the short and curlies. To force the french to chase us which will create errors for us to exploit. Our kicking game needs to be extremely accurate. We must dominate the french back row.

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 7:05 pm

i cant see this outstanding game coming from them- i really dont think they have it in them. name me there last outstanding game, i cant even think of one since the last world cup when there were at home!!

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011, 11:20 pm

mystiroakey wrote:i cant see this outstanding game coming from them- i really dont think they have it in them. name me there last outstanding game, i cant even think of one since the last world cup when there were at home!!

You know they won the grand slam in 2010, right?

by mystiroakey Tue 11 Oct 2011, 11:24 pm

yeah i do - but what game was outstanding- wales were not the same team then anyway

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011, 11:30 pm

mystiroakey wrote:yeah i do - but what game was outstanding- wales were not the same team then anyway

In 2009 they beat the All Blacks in New Zealand. How outstanding do you need?

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