Coaching Casualties of the WC

Coaching Casualties/Possible casualties of the WC and speculation on replacements -

PDV - has resigned his position. PDV is definately going, who will replace? Who do people want? Heinke Myer (spelling?) the old Tigers head coach was in the running before PDV, would people want him in now? The sarries man, Venter could be another option, but didnt he go home to run the family surgery.

I've heard talk of Andy Robinson going. He has time left on his contract, although the results havent been there I think he has done a lot for Scottish rugby. There is more structure, he should be given a bit more time and maybe appoint a more creative attacking coach.

MJ or his staff, or all? Should he go, will he go - I dont know. I would love to see Wells (forwards coach) and Ford (defence coach) go, how have they survived while 2 previous head coaches have been canned! Brian Smith, can be given a little longer as he is the newest appointment of the lot. Rowntree? well, our scrum was not the best, but was fairly solid when players were 'in their best positions'. Dave Alred (kicking coach), well kicking hasnt been great at the WC has it for England!

Who could we replace those England coaches with? What premiership team has the best defence, the best forwards, the best scrum, the best kickers?

Dean Richards would have been right in for the top job if he hadnt have been banned. Malinder and West of Saints are a good combo.

Do we look to foreign coaches? Maybe the RFU needs an outsider to add that spark to Englands game.

Personally I think MJ and Robbo should stay in their repective roles.

Robinson has brought Scotland on a huge amount but needs help with the attack role, Gregor doesn't seem to be doing it.

Last season England proved they can play and play well but something went wrong in NZ, I would a shake up again in his backroom staff but Jonno to stay.

Lievremont had gone before the WC with Sant Andre coming in I believe.

Yes, forgot about Lievremont for St Andre.

also, Isnt Nick Mallet being replaced by another dispite his good result in the last 6N.

For South Africa, I think Venter would be a good call. I don't know much about the coaches in domestic rugby in South Africa to really put one of them forward.

France have done the right thing. Lievremont out was mandatory, Saint Andre coming in is an excellent appointment. France will be a real threat in the coming years.

England need a complete overhaul. New head coach appointing his own team. The current crew haven't come anywhere close to realising the potential in English rugby.

I wouldn't get rid of Robinson personally. I think he's a good coach, but I do think he should be given the chance to revamp his coaching team and appoint his own staff. He's never really had that chance.

Deans should stay with Australia, he's done a good job there.

Henry is a superb coach and should be given any job he wants.

Gatland is doing a great job with Wales. They should do everything to keep that coaching group together.

Ireland should stick with Kidney for the duration of his extended contract.

Yes, Mallet is gone. Ludicrous decision. England could do an awful lot worse, and not a lot better. He'd be an excellent appointment, especially if he could convince his old mate Steve Meehan to be the backs coach.

For South Africa, it is either going to be Rassie Erasmus or Allister Coetzee. I think Gert Smal is also in with a shout. I don't think Heineke Meyer is going to make it or if would even want to coach SA.

Exiled Scott - Agree, Mallett has done a lot for Italian rugby with limited recources. I would like to see him move on to another coaching role in this hemisphere. England could do a lot worse, but I'm not sure that Meehan would be a good shout.

propdavid_london wrote:Coaching Casualties/Possible casualties of the WC and speculation on replacements -

I've heard talk of Andy Robinson going. He has time left on his contract, although the results havent been there I think he has done a lot for Scottish rugby. There is more structure, he should be given a bit more time and maybe appoint a more creative attacking coach.

+1

Am hoping that perhaps some homegrown coaching talent (Chalmers at Melrose or Donaldson at Currie) might get a look in to replace Townsend, but otherwise I'd leave Robinson, Steadman, Cuttita and Hodge well alone

Mj to stay on ...but Wells and his fellow coaches all need to go.

Gatland is doing a great job with Wales. They should do everything to keep that coaching group together.

FES,

I am still not sure about Howley and someone like Ashton would be great but I very much doubt the WRU would change the World Cup winning coaching team

Martin Johnson will stay on unfortunately. Personally I would recommend MJ serving on an apprenticeship as an assistant coach at Leicester.

All the England management need to be sacked. The whole RFU needs to be sacked. No Clive Woodward.

Some names I was thinking of

Ian McGeechan
Brian Ashton as attack coach
Paul Gustard as forwards and defence coach.

I'd like to see Mallett given a go, apart from the scrum half experiment at twickers his done a good job with three maybe four players.

SCW has been out of rugby too long for me to walk straight back into the set up plus have people forgotten the Lions tour.

For me Robinson has to go. the team played below their potential. he had almost everything he wanted in preparation. His selections were poor.

Scotland need new blood - someone from outside the Scottish game - a young ambitious southern hemisphere coach.

Todd Blackadder might be a choice and there are others - or Mallet

I dont think Scotland did pay below par...they are mising a playmaker or 2 desperately.

If they had this they would have beaten both Argentina and us (England)

Where its coming from though...well thats the question. I cringe to say it but i'd be looking for a someone with a scotish granny.

TJ - which selections were poor?

Someone from outside the Scottish game like Matt Williams?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I dont think Scotland did pay below par...they are mising a playmaker or 2 desperately.

If they had this they would have beaten both Argentina and us (England)

Where its coming from though...well thats the question. I cringe to say it but i'd be looking for a someone with a scotish granny.

More than happy for us to do that, geordie!

Another John Leslie would suit me just fine!

"Another John Leslie would suit me just fine"

I firmly believe that someone like that is the difference between a pool exit and a potential QF/SF

I agree that Scotland aren't missing much just a creative playmaker, I've thought for years that they've been very close to challenging the other home nations but didn't have that creativity or strength in depth - now thanks to Robinsons and the regions they have realistically 2 (or more) players they could choose in each position and have a much more structured way about them.

They were so close to finishing top of thier group (should have beaten Argies, could very well have beaten England) and that would have been a great achievement.

Give Robinson a bit more time and I reckon you'll see the team continue to improve a lot.

Robinson should stay, not got a problem with that, but he cannot be absolved of all the blame. He made some poor choices.

Firstly the players were under cooked, two Friendly matches were not enough preparation. Ok they had two "easier" World Cup games, but with the two games coming so close togehter, he had to chop and change meaning most of the guys went into the Argentina match with only two games under their belt since the start of May. It also crucially meant that he went into our key game in what was basically a knock out match, not knowing his best team.

He took a number of "key" players out of action at the end of the 6 Nations, it worked for Chunk and Ford who both played well at the World Cup. But for the Glasgow trio, Gray had a below average world cup and Kellock went from captain to sitting in the stand and Barclay who was just coming back into form when the was rested, should not even have been in the team by the England match.

Cuister being selected, why? He was nowhere near fit/sharp enough, due to his lack of Rugby since returning from injury, so why pick him and not take a fully fit and firing Laidlaw?

Kellock is the Captain then gets dropped from not only the team but the squad. Lawson takes over the leadership of the team and then for the England game is cast to the stands.

Ansbro dropped for the Argentina match???????????

His predetermined use of Replacements and his refusal to budge from that plan, despite how the game was going. Jackson taken off versus Argentina despite him playing his best match for Scotland. Every time Chunk went off the Scrum suddenly came under pressure, why take him off, when his replacement clearly is unable to scrummage at the top level?

Going back to my original point, I would keep Andy Robinson but I do think this 6 Nations are a big test for him, another failure and the pressure must surely build.

DM - on a couple of those:

1. The captaincy. This has been a big problem area for Robinson. Kellock isn't guaranteed a starting place, and his scrum halves were in a muddle going into the tournament. Personally I think you pick your XV first and then your captain. AR didn't do this and it was an error. The two obvious candidates to me were Kelly Brown and Sean Lamont. Both guaranteed starters if fit, and two consistent performers.

2. The bench. Without question Robinson's biggest weakness as Scotland coach. Firstly he tends to pick benches that don't provide adequate cover, and secondly he has a silly Lievremont-esque habit of taking off key players on 60 minutes just because there's a pre-determined spreadsheet somewhere. I know he sees Dickinson as an impact sub, but only make the sub if we need the impact. Similarly taking off Jackson against Argentina. Why on earth do that?? He was playing his best game for Scotland, had a handle on the conditions and was growing in confidence. Again, he had some pre-determined notion of Parks closing out the game, but on the evidence in front of him, Jackson was doing a good job of closing it out himself.

3. In terms of selecting the squad, my only quibble was Laidlaw being left out. It was an odd decision given that Blair had played quite well in the warm-up games, Lawson was solid but Cusiter was undercooked. We didn't need to gamble on Cusiter, and he was pretty much a passenger. As for Ansbro dropped against Argentina, wouldn't have been my call but NDL has played quite well in the warm-ups. The bigger issue was Morrison at 12. Made it very hard to get quick and meaningful ball to Evans and NDL, who often found themselves enveloped when they received the ball.


However, I agree that Robinson should stay. The side are better with him than they have been since Telfer was in charge, he has the respect of the players and the requisite experience to fix the problems. He needs to change the men around him, but in terms of the head coaching role, I think he's a good man to have around Scottish rugby.

funnyExiledScot wrote:DM - on a couple of those:

1. The captaincy. This has been a big problem area for Robinson. Kellock isn't guaranteed a starting place, and his scrum halves were in a muddle going into the tournament. Personally I think you pick your XV first and then your captain. AR didn't do this and it was an error. The two obvious candidates to me were Kelly Brown and Sean Lamont. Both guaranteed starters if fit, and two consistent performers.

2. The bench. Without question Robinson's biggest weakness as Scotland coach. Firstly he tends to pick benches that don't provide adequate cover, and secondly he has a silly Lievremont-esque habit of taking off key players on 60 minutes just because there's a pre-determined spreadsheet somewhere. I know he sees Dickinson as an impact sub, but only make the sub if we need the impact. Similarly taking off Jackson against Argentina. Why on earth do that?? He was playing his best game for Scotland, had a handle on the conditions and was growing in confidence. Again, he had some pre-determined notion of Parks closing out the game, but on the evidence in front of him, Jackson was doing a good job of closing it out himself.

3. In terms of selecting the squad, my only quibble was Laidlaw being left out. It was an odd decision given that Blair had played quite well in the warm-up games, Lawson was solid but Cusiter was undercooked. We didn't need to gamble on Cusiter, and he was pretty much a passenger. As for Ansbro dropped against Argentina, wouldn't have been my call but NDL has played quite well in the warm-ups. The bigger issue was Morrison at 12. Made it very hard to get quick and meaningful ball to Evans and NDL, who often found themselves enveloped when they received the ball.


However, I agree that Robinson should stay. The side are better with him than they have been since Telfer was in charge, he has the respect of the players and the requisite experience to fix the problems. He needs to change the men around him, but in terms of the head coaching role, I think he's a good man to have around Scottish rugby.

Even a negative impact?!?!

Indeed. The bigger worry is that Grant, Welsh and Traynor are all a pile of turd, so I guess we'll be stuck with Dickinson's special brand of impact until one of them spends an afternoon with Jim Telfer and Tom Smith.

Some names I was thinking of

Ian McGeechan
Brian Ashton as attack coach
Paul Gustard as forwards and defence coach..

Problem is they've never worked together and Ashton is unlikely to ever return to the RFU set up. Geech has only just taken over at Bath and they aren't to hot at the moment. Agree whole heartedly that Paul Gustard should be appointed as defence coach with a role in the forwards, though I'd want him assisting another forwards coach. Mallinder, West, Gustard would be good as would Cockerill, Gustard, Catt. Don't want a foreign head coach. Not sure on the kicking coach.

No point appointing a new England coach or even reviewing Johnno's position until the RFU board sort itself out. No regular Chairman, Chief Exec or Performance Manager and Thomas is about to face a third vote of no confidence. What's the point of appointing someone new when there's a war zone raging in the management structures above them!

Scotland should keep Robinson but be warned he is incompetent when it comes to backs so a strong willed backs coach is a must for you guys.

Ireland should stick with Kidney for now but need to really look at freshening the squad up.

Not sure if Meyer would go back to the SARFU as I think he was pretty peeved at being overlooked last time, hence coming to Tigers (sadly illness his family prevented that from being a long stay).

Sam - why not a foreign head coach?

I do agree though that England need to sort things out at the top, and put in place a management structure, before replacing the coaching staff. It needs to happen from the top down. The people at the top need to pick their man, and that man needs to pick his own coaches, and then they need to pick their own players. Any other way is simply a mess.

For once, I found myself agreeing with Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times this weekend. His suggestions and those from Barnes weren't bad ideas on the whole.

funnyExiledScot wrote:TJ - which selections were poor?

Someone from outside the Scottish game like Matt Williams?

Not playing Rory lamont, not playing Shug and ansbro in the centre, playing parks and not trusting him to kick the goals so playing Mossy at full back. Not playing Kelloch.

Matt williams was a plonker. Needs to be someone good and ambitious. ~Scotland will never be a top job for outsiders so you want someone who is on the upward curve of their career.

Scotladn did not play to their potential - why not? teh buck has to rest with the coach - he simply is not up to it

Not playing Rory Lamont is only a bad selection if you wanted Parks to start ahead of Jackson. Picking Jackson at 10 and Rory Lamont at 15 would have left you struggling in the kicking stakes. Jackson is a kick and hope merchant, with nothing like the accuracy of Parks or CP.

If you wanted Parks at 10, you'd have the entire population of Scotland screaming at you.

I agreed with the decision not to play Kellock. He isn't as good as Hamilton, Hines or Gray. The mistake was picking him as captain.

These things are all a matter of opinion. There were hardly any howlers.

I don't think Scotland played a long way off our potential, sad though that may sound.

You have to select to win matches not to not lose them. Far too conservative IMO - and even when playing Parks Robinson did not pick Rory Lamont.

We played well below our potential. dropped places in the world rankings due to poor showing. We will continue to do so while Robinson is in charge - he simply cannot cut it.

Subbing Jackson against argentina - a real howler that probably cost us the game

While we do struggle for creative backs the ones we have were badly used. And where was the inspiration? the exciting tactics? Teh attacking gamble? Laidlaw should have gone for example

Agreed on the Jackson sub and the omission of Laidlaw, I'm not trying to suggest that mistakes weren't made. But had Blair set Parks properly for the drop goal, we'd have won that game, not dropped in the rankings (not that I care a jot about those) and would have made the QF.

I suspect Robinson wouldn't even be questioned had that happened. We were extremely competitive against Argentina and England, worth remembering, and were within a whisker of winning both matches. Let's not get too reactive to those results. The most disappointing performance for me was the Romania game. They were a poor side and we should have put them away convincingly.

TJ wrote:You have to select to win matches not to not lose them. Far too conservative IMO - and even when playing Parks Robinson did not pick Rory Lamont.

We played well below our potential. dropped places in the world rankings due to poor showing. We will continue to do so while Robinson is in charge - he simply cannot cut it.

Subbing Jackson against argentina - a real howler that probably cost us the game

While we do struggle for creative backs the ones we have were badly used. And where was the inspiration? the exciting tactics? Teh attacking gamble? Laidlaw should have gone for example

Not sure that's correct, TJ? Parks' only start was against Georgia and R Lamont was at fullback? I also think you could argue that we dropped places mainly cos Tonga overcame France and Ireland beat Australia - no more or less than that? Not sure that you could make a case that subbing Jackson cost us the game vs Arg - there were several areas (the breakdown, poor tackling, appalling restart, etc.) that were at least as much to blame?