Lions Tour 2013

First topic message reminder :

Will there be any Scots or English players on the tour. Richie Gray and Ben Foden maybe but thats about it -well maybe Kelly Brown and Ross Ford.

mystiroakey wrote:I respect your historical love of the game- you lot are true fans of rugby and have passion for the ecentric within. I am just a fan of the game with not enough passion for what is historical- My passion is golf. One day i will get on that board, but i am bideing my time at present

Your passion is Golf. Well I guessed it was not Rugby. The Lions concept brings to life all that is great about our sport and to fail to appreciate that fact, merely shows you have no love for the greatest team game of them all, or have any comprehension about why others love it.

Try the Golf forum and do yourself and everyone else a favour

finbar, just because someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean they're wrong. As I posted above, I think the Lions is past its sell-by-date.

Different strokes for different folks.

finbar

wind it in fella, mystiroakey is 100% entitled to his own opinions and if he wants to come onto the rugby section and discuss the sport then he is free to do so.

Lets get rid of the Masters.

Not a flippin lions post.

I dont like it because it distracts the players and also at this stage putting four teams together to play one and to fail regularly..waste of time..but given its now a complete marketing and money earner it will be around for a while unfortunately

DOD wrote:Not a flippin lions post.

I dont like it because it distracts the players and also at this stage putting four teams together to play one and to fail regularly..waste of time..but given its now a complete marketing and money earner it will be around for a while unfortunately

have you been on a Lions tour?

viewtothegym wrote:The second Lions test 2009 was and still stands as the most physically and intense game of Rugby played,
that game set the bench mark for future test matches on the level that can be achieved.

One of the all time great matches.

I really enjoy the Lions. I was raised with 'em and they are part of my Rugby DNA. Can't imagine a time without 'em.

The financial rewards are massive for Lions players, wasn't it like £60k for 5 weeks work last time?

Not a bad little earner really, besides I guess it does give us a chance to wheel out all the 70's dinosaurs to talk about the honor and pride of being a Lion with tears in their eyes. It is nice to see, but it is also far removed from modern day professional rugby.

No Gatts I haven't . I dont have any affinity for it. I go to Ireland/Munster games (not alot these days). In the last ten years i have probably gone to more away games for both Munster and Ireland which are more enjoyable so maybe that is the reason you ask. I just dont have that feeling for the lions

Firstly many people dont have sky, and have become detached from the Lions as a result, of not seeing them.

Secondly the tours nearly always end in defeat, the last exciting tour I can remember was 1995.
The 1999 was a total disaster and turned many people off the concept simply because the English were so arrogant and broke ranks over any minor issue. Everything was conducted via the press.

Thirdly is that ALL the home nations sides are often decimated by injuries after the tour, Wales grandslam 2005 side was decimated by the 2005 tour to New Zealand and their form and moral was smashed, not to mention their bodies!

Finally while the Lions are touring it often robs our national coaches of a chance to build his team up during that summer, as our marquee players are unavailable, it also takes away revenue from our Unions that they could of gotten from a tour to a 3 Nation team of their own.

AlynDavies wrote:Firstly many people dont have sky, and have become detached from the Lions as a result, of not seeing them.

Secondly the tours nearly always end in defeat, the last exciting tour I can remember was 1995.
The 1999 was a total disaster and turned many people off the concept simply because the English were so arrogant and broke ranks over any minor issue. Everything was conducted via the press.

Thirdly is that ALL the home nations sides are often decimated by injuries after the tour, Wales grandslam 2005 side was decimated by the 2005 tour to New Zealand and their form and moral was smashed, not to mention their bodies!

Finally while the Lions are touring it often robs our national coaches of a chance to build his team up during that summer, as our marquee players are unavailable, it also takes away revenue from our Unions that they could of gotten from a tour to a 3 Nation team of their own.

I believe you mean 1997 when they beat SA? What happened in 2001?

Alyn,
thanks for that.

My initial point was the paucity of decent players from Scotland/England and that Wales/Ireland would supply the majority - with maybe the exception of Gray, Ford, Brown and Foden (if he gets the makeup out his eyes) !

Gatts wrote:I believe you mean 1997 when they beat SA? What happened in 2001?

Yes Gatss sorry, your right with the dates.
Wasnt that the one when Henry was coach, and Healy went around calling a Aussie lock a plod and such in the press, and Dawson said something also that nearly got him thrown off the tour. then when Henry backed down, Martin Johnson himself said hed of quit the tour if Dawson had gone?

I think the Welsh players had a bit of a tiff with Henry also, after being told they were the best in the world only to go on tour with the Lions only to find out they werent the best along the M4!
then the English players were moaning at the amount of Welsh boys on the tour, and Shaw was moaning he was better than the other Locks selected even though he was 5th choice or so at the time for England.

mystiroakey wrote:I think many of us(especially younger or newer fans to rugby) dont really get the lions, because the games arnt that important to us- there isnt much media or press pushing the games to us- its harder to relate to the team. I personally feel its abit patronizing that we should have to play the best of all of us to give one of the tri nations a game. I understand why you lot love it though and if i got into this game and played for a team from a young age i would probally feel the same.

i see where your coming from but your wrong (imo). Firstly look at the results of Lions test series, recently i believe we have won only 2 test matches on last 3 tours( was it 1 in aus? cant remember). Yeah we have best of 4 teams BUT the advantage of this is balanced out by the difficulty in making a new team.Also like lots of others said its about more than just the games.
For me I would probably put the Lions as my fav of 4 year rugby cycle. The last lions tour was most enjoyable rugby i can remember watching, would have loved to have gone to SA for it.

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think many of us(especially younger or newer fans to rugby) dont really get the lions, because the games arnt that important to us- there isnt much media or press pushing the games to us- its harder to relate to the team. I personally feel its abit patronizing that we should have to play the best of all of us to give one of the tri nations a game. I understand why you lot love it though and if i got into this game and played for a team from a young age i would probally feel the same.

i see where your coming from but your wrong (imo). Firstly look at the results of Lions test series, recently i believe we have won only 2 test matches on last 3 tours( was it 1 in aus? cant remember). Yeah we have best of 4 teams BUT the advantage of this is balanced out by the difficulty in making a new team.Also like lots of others said its about more than just the games.
For me I would probably put the Lions as my fav of 4 year rugby cycle. The last lions tour was most enjoyable rugby i can remember watching, would have loved to have gone to SA for it.

sorry to tell you john- but i am not wrong- I am not giving you cold hard facts here- i am just telling you how i and others feel. How is that wrong?

Can I just ask everyone to pause there and reminate on the molton bronze droplet of beauty that comes from having three pages of a Lions thread without one mention of Gavin Henson.

As you were.

sorry if i caused offence, i put IMO to show i see its just opinions we are giving but couldnt really think of constructing my sentence for that so just put "your wrong in my opinion". i always see the forum as like having a discussion with your mates and just post like that- I really enjoy the forum and wouldnt intentionally be rude to someone on here, so once again im sorry..... but your still wrong

"so once again im sorry..... but your still wrong"

i will take that as a joke, but the only person that is 'wrong' is you. My comment isnt about wrong or right- its an expression of the way i feel

yes i know,and agree with you-it was a joke

sweet

To be chosen for the Lions is one grade above national selection. You aren't just the best, you are the best of the best.

The people you play with are usually your greatest foes, but also great names and this is the only serious chance you will ever have to play WITH them.

Then you get a few weeks to turn this collection of individuals, usually the greatest of rivals, into a winning Rugby team. And that's really tough.

For the fans, we all get together for those few weeks and cheer ourselves hoarse for AWJ or BOD or whoever.

Just for those weeks, rugby is more than rugby. It's something even the WC can't do.

Cowshot wrote:To be chosen for the Lions is one grade above national selection. You aren't just the best, you are the best of the best.

The people you play with are usually your greatest foes, but also great names and this is the only serious chance you will ever have to play WITH them.

Then you get a few weeks to turn this collection of individuals, usually the greatest of rivals, into a winning Rugby team. And that's really tough.

For the fans, we all get together for those few weeks and cheer ourselves hoarse for AWJ or BOD or whoever.

Just for those weeks, rugby is more than rugby. It's something even the WC can't do.

Only a true fan knows the feeling

Gatts:

mystiroakey: Think I saw you say golf was your big thing - well the Lions has a lot of the same appeal as the Ryder Cup.

Gatts wrote:

Cowshot wrote:To be chosen for the Lions is one grade above national selection. You aren't just the best, you are the best of the best.

The people you play with are usually your greatest foes, but also great names and this is the only serious chance you will ever have to play WITH them.

Then you get a few weeks to turn this collection of individuals, usually the greatest of rivals, into a winning Rugby team. And that's really tough.

For the fans, we all get together for those few weeks and cheer ourselves hoarse for AWJ or BOD or whoever.

Just for those weeks, rugby is more than rugby. It's something even the WC can't do.

Only a true fan knows the feeling

thats nice for you gatts- feel part of the gang

thats nice for you gatts- feel part of the gang

mystiroakey: He's not having a go at you, it's just that he's right. It's not "part of the gang", it's a shared positive experience.

If you weren't following Rugby for the last Lions, well, you have something good to look forward to.

mystiroakey wrote:

Gatts wrote:

Cowshot wrote:To be chosen for the Lions is one grade above national selection. You aren't just the best, you are the best of the best.

The people you play with are usually your greatest foes, but also great names and this is the only serious chance you will ever have to play WITH them.

Then you get a few weeks to turn this collection of individuals, usually the greatest of rivals, into a winning Rugby team. And that's really tough.

For the fans, we all get together for those few weeks and cheer ourselves hoarse for AWJ or BOD or whoever.

Just for those weeks, rugby is more than rugby. It's something even the WC can't do.

Only a true fan knows the feeling

thats nice for you gatts- feel part of the gang

What is your problem ? I wasn't even addressing it to you but obviously you had to comment because i get the feeling you just don't belong do you. You certainly don't appreciate one of the greatest traditions in rugby

Take that huge chip off your shoulder using your 'plausable' thumbs.

As an Irishman living it London, I have made so many English friends playing rugby, but obviously when it comes to the 6N our friendships are put aside for a few weeks.

Our club went on the SA tour and it was such a unique experience to all be on the same side for once and directing our banter at the saffas (and rog). Can't wait for Aus already the tour is in the planning stages! Long may it continue!

I LOVE and always will LOVE the Lions tours, I have been privilegd enough to go on the 95 and 05 tour and hopefully going complete the series by going to Oz in 2013.

On a playing front the 05 has been the worst but 01 it was all decided in the last test despite all tghe off field antics and in 09 we seen some brutal games that were great.

Oops 97 Tour damn typo

George Carlin wrote:Can I just ask everyone to pause there and reminate on the molton bronze droplet of beauty that comes from having three pages of a Lions thread without one mention of Gavin Henson.

As you were.

The Bloke is just a rugby player...! If he is playing better than anyone else and fit, he should be in the Welsh Team or the Lions.

maestegmafia wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Can I just ask everyone to pause there and reminate on the molton bronze droplet of beauty that comes from having three pages of a Lions thread without one mention of Gavin Henson.

As you were.

The Bloke is just a rugby player...! If he is playing better than anyone else and fit, he should be in the Welsh Team or the Lions.

Agreed Maesteg.

Just that if there's a god in heaven, the permatanned buffoon won't be anywhere near that glorious shirt.
Wales doesn't have a problem at outside centre any more.

He doesn't even have a team yet so hopefully a LONG way off the Welsh shirt.

AlynDavies wrote:Firstly many people dont have sky, and have become detached from the Lions as a result, of not seeing them.

Secondly the tours nearly always end in defeat, the last exciting tour I can remember was 1995.
The 1999 was a total disaster and turned many people off the concept simply because the English were so arrogant and broke ranks over any minor issue. Everything was conducted via the press.

Thirdly is that ALL the home nations sides are often decimated by injuries after the tour, Wales grandslam 2005 side was decimated by the 2005 tour to New Zealand and their form and moral was smashed, not to mention their bodies!

Finally while the Lions are touring it often robs our national coaches of a chance to build his team up during that summer, as our marquee players are unavailable, it also takes away revenue from our Unions that they could of gotten from a tour to a 3 Nation team of their own.

First three paragraphs is no differnet to the usual syummer tours.

Final paragraph ...does it? Again how often do they have full squads available in the summer to tour with? Doesnt it give them the option to get the fringe players together and sdee how they cope without the superstars? Doesnt it give some of those young playewrs a break to work on developing their physical fitness?
Last sentence...ah yeah the old "its all about the money" argument. Im not sure the Lions nations take much from summer tours anyway though, most of the revenue goes to the host nation and the TV cash is very limited especially for teh likes of Scotland who have virtually zero TV draw for the meaningless middle of the night fixtures. I wouldnt be suprised if even when spilt four ways the money form the lions is equal or greater, whith much more sponsorship and much more tv coverage ( even the warm ups were shown live )
You talk as if the summer internationals are anything other than a joke. Its only England in Australia who have put up a show in recent years against a Tri nations side, unsuprisingly that was the year before the world cup...the only year theyd bother to send a proper squad down.

I think when Lions tours are on its a perfect chance for coahces to build their pool and experiement with 2nd string players by going on a tour to less renonwed rugby nations.

You still have a blend of experience as not the entire first team would go so could mix them in with youth.

One point about the Lions which I do agree with is the injury count. Since Lions tours are longer than the typical June Internationals, the number of injuries increases. But it is not just the length of the tours. It is the intensity of the matches which I believe are as high as any in the RWC. And that comes from pride in the jersey and the concept by the players.

All that contributes to a high rate of injuries. Many players are not right for the following season. But that is part of our sport.

I believe the Lions are something unique in the sports globally. A great tradition.

Yes true about the injuries but its nice to actualy watch international games played with some level of intensity...most a re comeplte joke.

If youre going to have international rugby at least have the games mean something to the players and fans rather than a string of borish friendlies.