St Andrews...........Again.

So, the 2015 Open is to be at St Andrews. Am I the only person here who finds it the most boring course on The Open cct? My opinion is based solely as a TV viewer. All the tradition and history of the place doesn't compensate for watching boring golf.

It wouldn't bother me if it was every 10 years instead of every 5 but not because I find the course or golf boring though, just a bit too repetitive when you consider the Dunhill Links is there each year too. I think we see too much of it.

4putt, as you may know I'm a member at st.andrews and totally agree its the worst course on the open rota, whereas the best, Carnoustie is 10 miles as the crow flies away and barely gets a look in.
one thing is for sure though, Mac will be having a good thrash in his squalid bedsit about the news.

Crowds at St Andrews are bigger than those at the other Open venues, so I'd say that lots of people like going there. I suspect the views about St Andrews on here are not the majority opinion.

Was always going to be St Andrews for this one everytime the year ends in a "0" or a "5" its TOC.

Super and I are often shot at on here for stating we feel TOC is the poorest on the Rota. I too played it many times and get the the hysteria as its the "so called" home of golf and has its history but sadly all that history does NOT IMO make it worthy of hosting the Open every 5years, especially when there are a whole host of other links that get no look in that would play far more challenging. Plus as pointed out earlier in the thread we see it every year at the Dunhill too

Disappointing decision. Would have been an ideal opportunity to put Royal Portrush on the rota, but they took the easy option. Like others have said though, such a decision was inevitable.

My view on TOC is that it's somewhere all golfers should have on their bucket list, but beyond that, it's not somewhere that I'd go out of my way to play again and again. I have played it once, and it was the most annoying round of golf I have ever played due to how busy it was, and having to wait at least 5 minutes on EVERY shot. A 5 1/2 hour round isn't my idea of fun!

Controversial comment alert.... The Old Course is more fun to play on the X-Box than it is in real life.

I would agree, weakest course on the rota by some distance. I get the history bit and could even buy the uniqueness element but every 5 years is a nonsense and a disservice to other far more worthy courses on the rota.

No doubt the crowds influence the decision to stick with the every 5 years element but I think sooner or later they will have a rethink.

Not only is it a poor course its also a poor spectators course , has a dreary finish and virtually never creates any drama. Boring, predictable old farts in the r&a not willing to grow a pair of balls. There simply isn't a need to have it there every five years, it would be like holding the fa cup final at deepdale because of the history. Ludicrous, and another example of golf living in the past.

Couldn't agree more Super and if history is such an important factor to the old farts why don't they put Prestwick back on the rota (before everybody jumps in yes I know it hasn't got the room, no longer has the length and the Pros would spit chips about having to play a totally blind par 3 and a ridiculously blind par 4 approach).

It does beg the question though, if it did get reduced to every 10 would another course get added and if so which one?

Yawn. Tend to agree re. TOC. Played it twice, glad I have because of its place in the golfing pantheon but don't buy in to the 'quality' of the course.

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm delighted the Open is at St Andrews every 5 years ... as TOC and Carnoustie are the only two on the rota that are easy(ish) for me to get to!

Totally agree with the comments about the TOC in terms of quality and excitement though. Nowhere near the best on either count.

ST Andrews is a Pitch & putt, with wind its only protection, its embarrising to watch the tournament being played there so often. Far to easy a course for a competative tournament, the best open i've seen was at Carnoustie when the Pros were bubbling that the course was to difficult and the rough was to severe. They then had to make it easier for the next time !! If tradition has to be kept then bring back the open belt, haha, might even bring Hulk Hogan out of retirement, haha !! Agree with guys above blaiming the old farts club at the R&A.

Shock Horror, Links course with wind as its' only protection!

Even Carnoutie is a lot more timid with no wind.

That said, I agree, having played TOC, i found it awe inspiring beacuse of history, and then after I had tee'd off the first, found it a bland set up!

dr_peeps wrote: the best open i've seen was at Carnoustie when the Pros were bubbling that the course was to difficult and the rough was to severe.

[irony]Yes, let's have more majors won by Paul Lawrie.[/irony]

Yes, lets. I'd reather a Brit won than any other nation. Besides, the Open has a habit of throwing up rnadom winners, look at the last 15 years or so.

Yes, have toagree with everthing that people have written on here so far. It would be great if the Open could one day come to the South West of England, Saunton is a great links also but just does not have the infrastructure to hold the event. I dont think if they were to go to Portrush they could look at a date anytime before 2018 given the amount of planning required. Every 5 year at TOC is just kicking the backside out of it.
Shame also that I have not seen no mention of the Open going back to Royal Troon anytime soon either. Last time there was 2004 and is handy for me as i have some friends who gives us accomodation not 5 mins walk from the course, also got to play some composite of Lochgreen and darley whilst the open was on. Great to be playing golf at the same time that the Open is going on on the otherside of the railway line!!

Im sure Lawrie would gladly compare open victory stories with the likes of Donald & Westwood around any English links !!

dr_peeps wrote:Im sure Lawrie would gladly compare open victory stories with the likes of Donald & Westwood around any English links !!

Here Here!!

dr_peeps wrote:Im sure Lawrie would gladly compare open victory stories with the likes of Donald & Westwood around any English links !!

Indeed.

Paul Lawrie > Luke Donald and Lee Westwood

Troon is likely to host it in 2016.

Totally agree with all the points.

Appears to me the R&A are maximising it's revenue, but surely they make enough money at most of the venues and there is a big risk they will dilute the "St Andrews home of golf" brand.

None of us on this site rate the course (becuase we are keen golfers) but we respect the history and it is special. Lets keep it special by playing it the same frequency as the other open venues.

Probably nothing will change unless the crowds start to reduce or the pros start to moan. I can't see either happening as St Andrews is a draw and the pros are unlikely to complain the course is not difficult enough so we may have St Andrews every 5 years for some time to come.

Very dissapointing for Ireland and other parts of UK mainland who are trying to get one or two extra courses added to the rota. Bring the number of course up to 10, have a fixed rota and go to St Andrews the years enging in "0". Sorted!

Just awaiting the Trump course to take over the running of the open????

oldparwin wrote:Just awaiting the Trump course to take over the running of the open????

If it's good enough to provide a challenge for the pro's then why should it not host the Open like any other venue

Super I would love to see TOC dropped from the open Rota but not for the same reasons as you. I would actually like to see the open rotated between castle stuart, trumps vandalism and Kingsbarnes with maybe the odd trip to hoylake or lythm st anns.

I don't think you lot are thinking very clearly.

It's in Britain because most people who go to watch live in Britain. Moving it to Northern Ireland would inconvenience a lot of people who attend every year. It's always held on the same few courses because there aren't many courses that are good enough (ie tough enough) to host it, and have the infrastructure (roads, public transport etc) to hold it.

No doubt new courses will be added to the rota, but bear in mind that the last new addition was Turnberry in 1977, so it takes a long time.

As for hosting it St Andrews - it's the most popular venue for spectators, it provides reasonable viewing for the spectators, it's the home of the R&A, and it's quite easy to get to. Move it somewhere else and the R&A is risking a lot.

If you ran a business, would you stop making your best selling product?

George1507 wrote:I don't think you lot are thinking very clearly.

It's in Britain because most people who go to watch live in Britain. Moving it to Northern Ireland would inconvenience a lot of people who attend every year. It's always held on the same few courses because there aren't many courses that are good enough (ie tough enough) to host it, and have the infrastructure (roads, public transport etc) to hold it.

No doubt new courses will be added to the rota, but bear in mind that the last new addition was Turnberry in 1977, so it takes a long time.

As for hosting it St Andrews - it's the most popular venue for spectators, it provides reasonable viewing for the spectators, it's the home of the R&A, and it's quite easy to get to. Move it somewhere else and the R&A is risking a lot.

If you ran a business, would you stop making your best selling product?

Last time I checked and served out there, Northern Ireland falls under the Great Britain region too. There would also be a lot of people from N.I and the ROI that would attend the event much like here in mainland Britain so I do buy into that, and as for infrastructure over there is every bit as good as scotland.

As for selling it's best product, St Andrews is not it's best product, its actually putting something on the viewing public that is inferior on to regular an occurence for it's own gain...

Britain is Scotland, England Wales.

UK is Britain and Northern Ireland.

Do you really think so many people would attend an Open at St Andrews if it was an inferior venue?

George1507 wrote:Britain is Scotland, England Wales.

UK is Britain and Northern Ireland.

Do you really think so many people would attend an Open at St Andrews if it was an inferior venue?

Hence I said great Great Britain and as a former serving soldier all service for NI goes down as Great Britain. Also anyone from northern Ireland can claim to be British so one and the same.

As for your other point of course people will attend it, thats a really pointless thing to say, people will go wherever the stars are whether thats TOC, or at some municple in the back waters of beyond so your point actually is.....

Not much love for TOC on here. So in the interests of balance, as a member of the viewing public, I enjoy watching the Open at TOC.

And yes it's because of the history and it being the home of golf, and not the quality of the course, but what's wrong with that? It's special, the same as Wembley for football fans or Lords for cricket fans.

Plus as far the pro's are concerned, it's the one on the Open rota they all want to win. And not just because it's the easiest course.....

if you look in your passport, you'll see that the name of the country that you are subject of is 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

So NI is not part of Britain, no.

And no - people go to St Andrews to see the Open because it's famous, it's historic, it's familiar and they want to go there. They don't go to Turnberry in such numbers because it's not all of those things.

Unfortunately money talks. Ask an American to describe golf in the UK, and the first thing he'll say (assuming he/she is the type who realises that civilisation exists outside the US of A) is St Andrews. Not only is this important for tourism, but also hugely important for the TV networks. An open at St Andrews is big news, and the people in charge a premium for broadcasting rights.

Correct or not, that's the way it is, and the way it will stay.

A point was made above about the logistical issues of having the open in NI. what's the difference between having to travel to Irishland and a southerner having to travel to the frozen wastelands of the north in order to watch the open on one of the Scottish courses? If anything, it's more convenient to get to Ireland on the ferry than to negotiate the dirt tracks leading to the north.

George1507,

Maverick is spot on.

It is also one of the worst courses for spectators as you are limited to the extremeties of the course and very flat with few natural vantage points.

Overall St Andrews works as a venue but its weaknesses will get more exposed the longer the Open goes there every 5 years. St Andrews should be used the same as the other courses to keep it "special" and this will give the R&A some scope to add an extra course.

Tiler76 wrote:Plus as far the pro's are concerned, it's the one on the Open rota they all want to win. And not just because it's the easiest course.....

Maybe i'm being pedantic today but I find his comment odd to, surely they all want to win the Open regardless of venue...

Of course Mav, but it's the "home of golf". It's the one that's a little bit more special than all the others. And no, I don't have any quotes to back that up, just memory of watching golf for 25 years, and the interviews they do with all the players. Just as the Open is seen by many as the most prestigious major, St Andrews is the most prestigious venue.

When a pro looks back at the career they have just finished I very much doubt they would worry about where they won the major whether that be St Andrews, Carnoustie, RSG etc. Maybe i'm looking it from a mercenary perspective that regardless of where it is a win is a win...

Mav

If TOC makes the most profit when holding an open then it is the R and A's best product in terms of finance. Whether you think it is the product of the highest quality has no baring on the argument.

The r and a would be fools to drop TOC for an NI event, or not to cast in on it every 5 years.

Although I do not think these great old courses should hold the open will not be an argument the r and a considers when you look at the money they make.

Mav - I disagree. We know that majors define a players career, rightly or wrongly, and ultimately there is no "grading" for those players who won majors on tougher or easier or more historic courses, it's just the count that matters.

But if I'm a player who's won one, I think I would definitely look back at where I won. And one Open at TOC would probably look very slightly better than one anywhere else. Well, that's what countless players interviewed over the years have inferred anyway...

Tiler76 wrote:Mav - I disagree. We know that majors define a players career, rightly or wrongly, and ultimately there is no "grading" for those players who won majors on tougher or easier or more historic courses, it's just the count that matters.

But if I'm a player who's won one, I think I would definitely look back at where I won. And one Open at TOC would probably look very slightly better than one anywhere else. Well, that's what countless players interviewed over the years have inferred anyway...

I think it all comes down to the individual player. If a player is interested in the history of the game, then he may well view winning at TOC as the pinnacle. However, if he's only in it for personal glory, then the only thing that matters to them is seeing "Open Champion" on their CV, and receiving all the spoils that such a win would inevitably provide.

Tiler76 wrote:Mav - I disagree. We know that majors define a players career, rightly or wrongly, and ultimately there is no "grading" for those players who won majors on tougher or easier or more historic courses, it's just the count that matters.

But if I'm a player who's won one, I think I would definitely look back at where I won. And one Open at TOC would probably look very slightly better than one anywhere else. Well, that's what countless players interviewed over the years have inferred anyway...

So, you'd look back and be able to say: 'i won on the worst course on the open rota'

Never played TOC (was scheduled to play 9/13/01, but that's another story) ... BUT I would love to see a NI course, like Royal Portrush, in the mix. Or how about a Heathland Great (Walton Heath surely has the room and think of the crowds they would get)?

My point exaclty SR, you tell me one pro that looks back and really gives to dogs turds which course on the roate they won on. Bet Louis Ooserwotsit doesn't care but he can still say he won it

I'm pretty sure that winning the Open at RSG would be the pinnacle, as it's obviously the finest course on the Open rota. That's why Big Phil tried harder than ever before to win it.

super_realist wrote:

So, you'd look back and be able to say: 'i won on the worst course on the open rota'

No, I could look back and say; "I won the Open at the Home of Golf"

Am I totally alone on this though? Surely we've all seen the interviews over the years with various pro's before the event saying this is the one they want to win, home of golf, most prestigious, etc, etc. Or did I dream it all?

Of course they'll say that. They're not going to slag off a course before they even start. They may criticize the condition or the set-up, but they'd never say how one course is more prestigious than the other.

You'll never get an honest answer from any sportsperson unless their name is Bubba Watson, but then you get a mixture of honesty, ignorance and stupidity.

Shotrock

I would love to see an open on a heathland great but only in the hypothetical world where holding an open would not require course changes for the pro's that would ruin the course for everyone else. I hate it when a course as great as TOC has to push the tee’s so far back they are off the course and then still appears easy for the pro’s of 2011 using technology that has gone out of control. As sad as it is the golden age courses and the great links of the 19th centaury should stay clear of hosting the pro’s. All that happens is people like super and mav assume these courses are flawed because they are not prov1 proof.

I really dread to think what will happen at merion and feel places like whistling straits or in time trumps vandalism of Menie are the sort of places the majors should be held in the future. There is no point changing great courses for the sake of 140 people who can hit it 340 yards and stop the ball from knee high rough with a 4 iron.

Back to the point raised of holding the open on a non links course, I say go for it as long as the course is of the same architectural quality of the great links courses.

Two quotes from Jack Nicklaus -

If you're going to be a player people will remember, you have to win the Open at St. Andrews.

When the British Open is in Scotland, there's something special about it. And when it's at St. Andrews, it's even greater.

George1507 wrote:Two quotes from Jack Nicklaus -

If you're going to be a player people will remember, you have to win the Open at St. Andrews.

When the British Open is in Scotland, there's something special about it. And when it's at St. Andrews, it's even greater.

I wonder if Jack Nicklaus won any of his Open titles at St Andrew's?

I've heard quotes from both Woods and Nicklaus stating their St Andrews Open wins as most important, but I guess thats an easy quote to make when you've won multiple majors. Always thought Nicklaus was trying to appear better than other multiple major winners who hadn't won there.

SpacemanSpiff wrote:I've heard quotes from both Woods and Nicklaus stating their St Andrews Open wins as most important, but I guess thats an easy quote to make when you've won multiple majors. Always thought Nicklaus was trying to appear better than other multiple major winners who hadn't won there.

Nobody does mawkishness as good as a yank.

super_realist wrote:

Tiler76 wrote:Mav - I disagree. We know that majors define a players career, rightly or wrongly, and ultimately there is no "grading" for those players who won majors on tougher or easier or more historic courses, it's just the count that matters.

But if I'm a player who's won one, I think I would definitely look back at where I won. And one Open at TOC would probably look very slightly better than one anywhere else. Well, that's what countless players interviewed over the years have inferred anyway...

So, you'd look back and be able to say: 'i won on the worst course on the open rota'

Super, your mate with the dodgy knee and orange and black stripes has said winning at St Andrews is more special than anywhere else.