England First Choice T20 and ODI Squads

ODI

Cook
Kies
KP
Mogs
Ravi
Bairstow
Stokes/Woakes/Patel
Swann
Broad
Borthwick(at 8)/Dernbach(at 11)-(depending on pitch)
Finny

Reserves

Jimmy
Trott
plus whoever misses out above

People will ask me abt Bresnan but despite his brilliant Test form his ODI record with the ball is surprisingly very poor.
63 wkts in 51 matches at an average of 37,a s/r of over 40 and economy of 5.3

T20(considering that the T20 WC is in Sri Lanka)

KP
Kies
Bairstow
Mogs
Ravi
Patel
Buttler
Borthwick
Swann
Broad
Dernbach

Reserves

Finny
Briggs
Bell
Bresnan

afaik the selectors have already picked the squads for the next series

lets wait to see how those go before crystal-ball gazing

and btw bresnan has been a regular in the ODI team for 2 and half years now, i'm fairly confident he is not only part of the first choice squad but the first choice XI , even with everyone fit

you just keep looking at stats selectively tho shanks when judging his value to the ODI team

rich1uk wrote:afaik the selectors have already picked the squads for the next series

lets wait to see how those go before crystal-ball gazing

and btw bresnan has been a regular in the ODI team for 2 and half years now, i'm fairly confident he is not only part of the first choice squad but the first choice XI , even with everyone fit

you just keep looking at stats selectively tho shanks when judging his value to the ODI team

this thread is not to guess what the selectors will do.it is to pick EACH ONE'S OWN first choice team.

and whats the point doing that when we have a series starting on friday with the squads already picked and what happens in that series might impact peoples decisions on a few of the fringe players ?

but whatever floats your boat i suppose

rich1uk wrote:and whats the point doing that when we have a series starting on friday with the squads already picked and what happens in that series might impact peoples decisions on a few of the fringe players ?

but whatever floats your boat i suppose

this is the team i would pick atm.in case someone is having a shocker,the team would be updated.

btw i thought we had decided not to argue till the end of this series.but everytime i say bresnan shouldnt be in the side you start going on and on about it.would you plz reserve these comments for after the india series?

well maybe you should stop saying bresnan shouldn't be in the team

and i never agreed to stop discussing the subject and certainly didn't say that i was likely to change my judgement of bresnan based on one series

the guy has been a regular in the team for a long time now, his year by year record is showing steady improvement and there are not many bowlers around that do all the things he does and are as good with the bat

one series wont change any of that

Tests

Cook
Strauss
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Morgan
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson

Taylor
Davies
Finn
Tremlett
Panesar

ODI's

Cook
Pietersen
Trott
Morgan
Bopara
Patel
Kieswetter
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson

Bairstow
Bell
Dernbach
Finn
Borthwick

Test

Strauss
Cook
Trott
KP
Bell
Morgan/Taylor
Prior
Swann
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson

ODI
Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
KP
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Swann
Borthwick
Bresnan
Broad

t20
Hales
Kieswetter
KP
Bopara
Morgan
Buttler
Patel
Swann
Bresnan
Broad
Dernbach

Why would you guys pick bresnan?did you see those numbers?

because shanky not everyone goes by numbers.. he is a very good bowler,

shanky also remeber that he bowls at the death, where the economy rate will be high

Most of these ODI sides are a bowler light. Bopara isnt a collingwood, he cant be relied upon as a regular 10 overs bowling option ...despite having good figures.

When Morgan is fit England will have a big choice to make as to which batsmen keep their places.

cricketfan90 wrote:because shanky not everyone goes by numbers.. he is a very good bowler,

shanky also remeber that he bowls at the death, where the economy rate will be high

So what is your criteria?

shanky read the 2nd part of the post...

he bowls at the death where the econcomy rate and average will be high!!!

jimmy anderson has a better average,s/r and economy rate and he too bowls at the death and the powerplays.
yet bresnan is the better bowler.i am interested to know why.

i never said he was the better bowler, shanky when did i say bresnan was the better bowler...

anderson just dosent bowl well on sub contient pitches.

I have no problem with his economy rate.He bowls in the powerplays and the slog overs but surely that gives him a better chance of taking wkts as the batsmen go after him yet his s/r is over 40 which isnt good enough in an ODI.An average of 37 isnt great either as he should be taking more wkts if the batsmen are going after him.

the average is fine, it will lower as he plays more games, and odi's arent all about taking wickets, its about containing as well....nowadays if u bowl your ten overs for 50, and have a wicket, u have done a verygood job.

But this ODI team is not for sub continent pitches.Its a general team.
The T20 team is for subcontinent pitches as the next 3 t20 WCs will be played in the subcontinent.
The next ODI WC is in Aus/NZ.We should be building our ODI team for those conditions not the subcontinent.Thats why I was surprised to see 2 spinners in your side.

i chose 2 spinners, cos i was only saying my squad for this tour..

also in australia, places like adeliade, and sydeny its best to play 2 spinners.

cricketfan90 wrote:the average is fine, it will lower as he plays more games, and odi's arent all about taking wickets, its about containing as well....nowadays if u bowl your ten overs for 50, and have a wicket, u have done a verygood job.

So according to you figures of 10-0-53-1 are good?

in india where scores of 300 are par then yes.

These bilateral series are irrelevant.Each bilateral series should be geared towards WC preparation IMO and we should look to build a side for those conditions.

in your opinon.

Bresnan bowled well in the tests in Australia last time he was there.

He can also bat a bit which is a plus for him over say Finn.

At the moment my teams would be:

T20

Hales
Kieswetter
KP
Bopara
Morgan
Patel
Bairstow
Swann
Bresnan
Broad
Dernbach

ODI's

Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson (in England) Dernbach (overseas)

As i said he is a quality test bowler but i am talking abt odis

Bresnan's odi record in england is disastrous GG mate.

Well he took 4 - 108 in two matches, last time he was out there.

Not bad figures.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Bresnan's odi record in england is disastrous GG mate.

We are talking the next world cup are we not???

T20

Who cares? Take a basic core (Morgan & Pietersen being the most obvious) & add whoever is in form.

ODI

Tricky - do they look to develop a team for the next big tournament, or simply aim to create a "culture of winning"? A number of question marks, not least Pietersen.

Test

Bell is simply too good now to bat at five, so a real problem for Strauss. Look for a new option at six (Taylor perhaps?) as neither Morgan nor Bopara are up to much.

Nz conditions similar to england

Yes but he has never bowled in NZ.

His figures and bowling was pretty good when we toured Australia last time out and he is a useful number 8 (please not 7).

I would pick him at present but there is a lot of Cricket to be played before the next world cup.

If all were fit at the moment and we were playing at home, I'd play:

ODI:

01 Cook
02 Kieswetter
03 Trott
04 Bopara
05 Morgan
06 Bairstow
07 Stokes
08 Bresnan
09 Broad
10 Swann
11 Anderson

Pietersen and Bell's form isn't good enough in this format. Not fully convinced by Bopara yet, we've seen false dawns from him before, but he's earned a go. Stokes and Bopara share fifth bowler duties. Would still like to see Taylor around the squad.

When an extra spinner is needed, Patel in for Stokes.

T20:

01 Hales
02 Kieswetter
03 Pietersen
04 Morgan
05 Bairstow
06 Buttler
07 Bresnan
08 Borthwick
09 Swann
10 Broad
11 Dernbach

Although I'd like to fit Stokes in too, otherwise we have no sixth bowler. One option would be to open with Pietersen and drop Hales.

m@tt

Bopara at four?

Hi amanuensis, how'd you hear about 606v2 mate?

Agree with you there about Bopara. Pietersen's ODI form may have been scratchy of late but you'd take him over Bopara at 4 every time.

ODI's

Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
KP
Morgan
Bairstow
Stokes/Patel/Woakes
Swann
Dernbach/Borthwick
Bresnan
Broad

Reserves:Those who miss out, plus Buttler and Bopara. Bowler and All Rounder dependent on conditions, think it's dependent on how we go about it.If we want a nurdler at 3, it's Trott. If we want another hitter, bring KP in there and replace Trott with Buttler, with everyone moving up a slot in the order.

T20:

Kieswetter
Hales
KP
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes/Patel/Woakes
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Dernbach

amanuensis wrote:m@tt

Bopara at four?

I put him at 4 because he's not a finisher - he needs time to get in. Putting him in at 5 or 6 would be fairly pointless - he'd be batting in the batting powerplay and closing overs before getting his eye in. His T20I record is so poor (SR under 100) because he is allowed that time. Players like Morgan and, from his early performances, Bairstow seem much more capable of scoring at a good rate from the first ball. But it's flexible - if the top order lay a really good platform and the second wicket goes down past the half-way stage, promote Morgan as he's our premier ODI batsman.

As I said in my post, I still have doubts over Bopara. Before the India series, I would have dropped him from all forms of the game for good, as we've got a lot of good young players at the moment. However, he's difficult to leave out at the moment because he had a good series against India (plus Stokes, our all-rounder-in-waiting, won't be able to bowl until next year). So it could be another false dawn or he might finally have cracked it. We'll see.

ODIs
Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
KP
Morgan
Bairstow
Stokes/Patel/Woakes (unsold on Patel, don't know much about Stokes's bowling, believe Woakes is a good enough batsman to bat 7)
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson (not convinced by Dernbach in the longer form yet).

Reserves:
Borthwick (who'd probably play on turning pitches)
Dernbach
Finn
Bopara

T20s:
Kieswetter
Hales
KP
Morgan
Bairstow
Bopara/Buttler/Stokes (probably not Buttler, we need a 6th bowling option)
Bresnan
Broad
Borthwick
Swann
Dernbach

Reserves:
Finn
Patel
Woakes
the n°6 batsmen not playing
Briggs

Have you guys seen Bresnan's terrible ODI record?

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Have you guys seen Bresnan's terrible ODI record?

guys, like it or not Patel and Bopara play a big part in the ODI and T20 formats. Patel in particular. Ive always been a big fan of four 'frontline' bowlers using up 40 overs and thus batting 8,9,10&11. and then finding no.6&7 batsmen that can fill in the remaining 10.
that gives the whole team the balance that is so desperately seeked by the selectors!
so like it or lump, Patel and Bopara will get a run in the team.. untill Stokes can bowl again or someone like Woakes/Bresnan can bat 6or7.
I think Bresnan has the ability to bat at 7 in tests but at 8 is fine for ODI's.

really not a big fan of Trott and would much prefer Bell at 3 but on current form Trott will keep his place.

I'm a huge fan of Trott as a cricketer rwalton, but tend to agree that in the shorter format Bell has so many more scoring options and is a much more fluent player.

As you rightly say however, it is up to him to prove that with big scores, but for now Trott holds the aces.

rwalton9 & Fists of Fury

Bell's limited overs international career is probably finished. That's a shame, as he's one of the most gifted strokeplayers in the modern English game against a ball which is either new or old. It does though create a real problem for Flower & Strauss - I can't see him simply accepting his present lot as a number five in tests. With an average over 80 in his last 20 games, I suspect he'll be increasingly assertive in seeking promotion.

bell may still have a chance at odi cricket, but he wont ever play t20 for england again

we are slightly deviating away from the topic slightly but oh well...

I think Bell still has alot to offer the ODI team and I would personally open with him and not Kieswetter. too often for my liking has Kieswetter found himself behind Cook in strike rate and struggling to get going. He just doesnt have the range of shots that Bell has, hence why i think Bell should open with Cook and Kieswetter dropped down to 6 or 7 for lower order hitting!
i thnk Cook has taken brilliantly to his role as ODI opener, so with Bell the other end finding the gaps for boundary and hitting the odd 6 ( just over long on) that should be the solid foundation that is necessary.

with Biffers like Bairstow,KP, Morgs and Kieswetter to come in lower down.

Because at the end of the day KP Morgs and Bopara know how to compile big test match scores so if we are 2down for eff all then they can all nurdle it around and THEN go big later on. But if our big hitters are out early then its harder for Bell, Trott, Cook to hit out. is anyone with me?

[/i]

Swanny is one of the few players, that is guranteed a place in all of the line ups.

Bell averages 34 in ODI Cricket with a s/r of 72 over 100 ODIs.He has been our best Test batsman this year but his ODI stats over the same period are absolutely disastrous.
Thats all I have to say.

i think we need him in india. He's our best player of spin, and we looked hopeless in the first odi

cricketfan90 wrote:i think we need him in india. He's our best player of spin, and we looked hopeless in the first odi

being a good player of spin out side the sub continent doesn't mean you're a class player of spin on turning tracks. you need to be able to dominate the spinners, and only kp is good at doing that. bell isn't the master of spin he is made to look.

Issac Watson wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:i think we need him in india. He's our best player of spin, and we looked hopeless in the first odi

being a good player of spin out side the sub continent doesn't mean you're a class player of spin on turning tracks. you need to be able to dominate the spinners, and only kp is good at doing that. bell isn't the master of spin he is made to look.

better than the rest of our players.