The Evolution of Tigers Swing

This is a video posted on golf digest which traces the changes in Tigers swing from is amateur days to the present.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/swing-sequences/2011-04/evolution-of-tigers-swing

From watching this I get the impression that the changes of late are a little more subtle than the media would have us believe. The main difference seems to be his swing plane on the backswing, I think it looks a little more round the body compared with the more upright swing in his earlier days. Another thing I notice is that in the Butch days his right foot is not exactly planted and in fact slides along the ground towards his left leg.

It would be very interesting to see what other differences you guys can pick up over the years.


Edit

Here is further, potentially more balanced, review of tigers swing.

http://www.waynedefrancesco.com/video-on-homepage/tiger-woods-in-2000-the-myth-of-the-perfect-swing/

I think his hip rotation is much more controlled and in sync during the Butch era. It's all over the place with Haney & Foley. That said, you can really see why he had so much knee trouble when you see his leg action during the Butch era.

I have to say the 2009 version looks the most efficient and smooth swing to me.
The 2011 version is horrible. Almost a deliberately abrupt backswing causing him to throw everything towards the ground on the downswing in a attempt to make up power/speed.

But hey, what do i know!!

I've been noticing for ages that he "dips" on his downswing (in an apparent effort to hit the ball harder and further), and the more he dips, the further right the ball tends to go - which is very much an amateur problem. But as MPB says, what do I know??

Is that right LP? The more the dip, the further right? That's interesting

The odd thing is, you see clips of him all the time on the range working on 'keeping his level'. But then on the course it seems to go out the window. That would imply it's something very ingrained and difficult to break but it doesn't really show up until the 2009 clip. Odd

I've seen clips on youtube showing the likes of Hogan having the same 3 'dips' as Tiger. Tiger's is slightly more pronounced but apparently you can still be a good ball striker with them.

Trouble is when he dips, he's lashing at the ball, trying to hit it harder and further and I know as soon as he does it, the ball's going right and into the rough. When he swings smoothy and doesn't try to knock the skin off it, it usually does straight - and long! Hogan may have dipped, but I doubt he tried to smash it!

I find it difficult to tell much difference but of the things mentioned, I'd say the dip has increased over time. Also, when it was less pronounced in the early days, he stopped and almost corrected it on the way down, so that he was virtually back to full height at impact. 2009 and 2011, the dip is larger and there's no attempt to restrain it, his height only returning on the follow through. I assume that means his downswing will be on a shallower plane, or more in to out, so if the hands aren't quick enough the ball goes right. (which I think would tie in with LP's observation?)

That dip and staying dipped also leads to a bent right arm through impact. Leaving that arm and wrist bowed like that restricts the release and will lead to a massive block. It is accentuated by the fact that he's also lagging the clubhead behind his body and coming in on a flatter plane.

Then when he does release one it's a snap hook of massive proportions.

He's got a two way miss... and that's not going to get any better unless he ditches this pointless method foley is teaching.

Butch was the man to sort him out, after his shoddy treatment of Haney last year, but Butch knocked him back because it was a poisened chalice. There were even rumours that Butch's brother was going to have a go, but Tiger decided on Foley, who has no big names really on his CV. The biggest would probably be Mahon, Rose, O'Hare, Ames and Owen - hardly world beaters. Butch's stable is an all-star stella cast, so surely that must tell it's own story. Tiger get a grip and get on bended knees and get Butch or Hank back, because thats where you won all your majors.

By the way your new swings shyte

I think the root cause of his problems is trying to hit the ball too hard. He has always been a powerful hitter so he has no need to try to give it the full can of beans. A smoother, more controlled swing using one club more will solve a lot of his problems.

As we all know though, it's a macho thing hitting the ball further. I play off 6 and the other guys in my regular Sunday fourball are off 2,3 and 5. They all regualrly comment that they wish they had my accuracy off the tee because I'm a smooth swinger, I don't hit it anything like the distances they do.

Wish I had their short games though

Your right Hogans swing was so much more smoother. And less violent. Tiger hits those pop ups as well when he dips too much.

I wonder what Foley is teaching is natural enough for Tiger? This keeping weight left etc doesnt seem natural for Tiger. Like others have said he has lightening quick hips so when he's turning everything left on the DS with little weight shift I'd think he would get even more stuck. Also, he does love to hit the ball hard so not really turning behind the ball and then the weight shift forwards is always going to be difficult for him to compute. HIs rhthym does seem shot at the moment.

Surely getting Tiger to swing a club well isn't this complicated? Why not pick an average coach who will look at his natural movements and go from there?

For me he's another year in the wilderness before a) he tries something else or b) we see any sort of consistency each week he tees it up. I dont see his short game improving much while he's battling the new swing moves.

All the time he was changing things to get closer to the 'perfect' swing i could kinda understand what he was up to.

This, however, is not the perfect swing!
And he must know that.

He'll have to change before long i would think

I think it's time that Tiger came out and admitted that he's a cockjockey. All those women have clearly been a cover up and he'll be much happier in himself if he opens that clost door.

Hard to see very much from that bit of (very poor) video. '90s looks a bit loose to me w/ a move off the ball during the backswing. Anselmo era looks the most 'natural' to me but Harmon looks the most solid and together (right foot slide reminds me of Norman). The Haney bit doesn't look that bad (but his dip though impact is messy and error-prone) but you don't get any DTL views so you can't see that daft path he developed on the takeaway with Haney. Foley looks OK to me apart from the follow through; wouldn't say he looks any more 'unnatural' in his current setup than any of the others. Again we don't get any DTL views and can't see what his club path is like w/ Foley vs. Haney.

Stop bitching about Foley's method and S&T (particularly the last bit if you don't know anything about what Bennett and Plummer actually advocate) when he hasn't been following Foley's ideas for long. Sheesh. Anyone would think it's easy to change a highly drilled swing method overnight such that it'll stand up under tournament conditions.

Navy other than badds the stack and tilt is dead, what a very stupid idea it was too.

mclaren

if i remember correctly the sgu coached stack and tilt for a while.......and they gave us drumoig the white elephant.....now where did our fees go ???????????

McLaren wrote:Navy other than badds the stack and tilt is dead, what a very stupid idea it was too.

Mac

With respect, that comment shows just what you (don't) know. Badds hasn't been with Plummer/Bennett for ages (since ~mid-2008) for one thing. As I said before, if you don't know what you're talking about (and on this you obviously don't), it's probably best to keep schtumm.

The one thing they did wrong was give their system a daft name although I think it actually came from Charlie Wi.

Navy

Getting a bit militant here, are you not? Care to explain what you know that I dont instead of just saying I know nothing? I think we are all willing to learn from you.

Excuse my ingorance, but what exactly is 'Stack & Tilt'? I've only ever seen it on here, where everyone seems to know what it involves bar me.

SmithersJones wrote:Excuse my ingorance, but what exactly is 'Stack & Tilt'? I've only ever seen it on here, where everyone seems to know what it involves bar me.

I hope navy will answer this as he seems to think he is the only one who understands it.

SJ

In very basic terms, it involves keeping your weight more on your left side during the takeaway so that rather than turning away from the ball, you stay more over it.

It goes against all the accepted theories but the principles can be used quite effectively for teaching beginners who have a tendency to have too much lateral movement in an attempt to get more distance.

drive4show wrote:SJ

In very basic terms, it involves keeping your weight more on your left side during the takeaway so that rather than turning away from the ball, you stay more over it.

It goes against all the accepted theories but the principles can be used quite effectively for teaching beginners who have a tendency to have too much lateral movement in an attempt to get more distance.

So a deliberate reverse pivot?

SmithersJones wrote:

drive4show wrote:SJ

In very basic terms, it involves keeping your weight more on your left side during the takeaway so that rather than turning away from the ball, you stay more over it.

It goes against all the accepted theories but the principles can be used quite effectively for teaching beginners who have a tendency to have too much lateral movement in an attempt to get more distance.

So a deliberate reverse pivot?

Yeah, I guess you could call it that although the intention is to keep the shoulders directly above the ball resulting in a steeper downswing. I toyed with it on the range, it can give a very crisp strike as it makes it easier to get the clubhead back to it's exact starting position.

drive4show wrote:

SmithersJones wrote:

drive4show wrote:SJ

In very basic terms, it involves keeping your weight more on your left side during the takeaway so that rather than turning away from the ball, you stay more over it.

It goes against all the accepted theories but the principles can be used quite effectively for teaching beginners who have a tendency to have too much lateral movement in an attempt to get more distance.

So a deliberate reverse pivot?

Yeah, I guess you could call it that although the intention is to keep the shoulders directly above the ball resulting in a steeper downswing. I toyed with it on the range, it can give a very crisp strike as it makes it easier to get the clubhead back to it's exact starting position.

Ok, thanks for that. Don't think I'll try it just yet. Maybe if Tiger wins another major.

McLaren wrote:Navy

Getting a bit militant here, are you not? Care to explain what you know that I dont instead of just saying I know nothing? I think we are all willing to learn from you.

Mac

You wrote and I quote:

McLaren wrote:Navy other than badds the stack and tilt is dead, what a very stupid idea it was too.

So point 1) is, you obviously don't know that Aaron Baddeley hasn't been following S&T since 2008. I would have thought someone who knew a lot about it would be up to speed on this.

Point 2) is that anyone who writes such a short, obviously evidence-based () statement as yours above needs a bit of help.

McLaren wrote:I hope navy will answer this as he seems to think he is the only one who understands it.

My pleasure, if you have the time.

drive4show wrote:In very basic terms, it involves keeping your weight more on your left side during the takeaway so that rather than turning away from the ball, you stay more over it.

It goes against all the accepted theories but the principles can be used quite effectively for teaching beginners who have a tendency to have too much lateral movement in an attempt to get more distance.

Not really right. It does NOT go against all accepted theories. It does NOT say anything about not turning away on the backswing. I'm a bit confused as well. If you accept the principles can be used to teach beginners, they surely apply to more advanced players as well.

SmithersJones wrote:So a deliberate reverse pivot?

NO, NO, NO AND NO! Not remotely. S&T advocates a strong weight shift down the target line during the downswing; there is NO suggestion that any weight goes backwards (i.e. reverse pivot) on the downswing in S&T.

drive4show wrote:Yeah, I guess you could call it that although the intention is to keep the shoulders directly above the ball resulting in a steeper downswing.

Yes, you're meant to be 'stacked' with your shoulder centre over the ball at setup but keeping the shoulders there doesn't result in a steeper downswing. You're meant to rotate the left (for a right hander) shoulder more downwards on backswing (i.e. rotating the shoulders on the same plane as hands/clubhead) but you actually end up with quite a flat looking backswing.

drive4show wrote:I toyed with it on the range, it can give a very crisp strike as it makes it easier to get the clubhead back to it's exact starting position.

Odd. You say it gave you a very crisp strike and made it easier to get the clubhead back to the ball accurately but still diss it as an idea? Very odd.

Navy

I have never dissed S&T as an idea. The point I was trying to make is that when teaching beginners ( or anyone for that matter), there is often a tendency to 'slide' through the ball in an effort to generate more distance. The principle of S&T helps to prevent this by keeping more weight on the left hand side then hitting down into the ball. This action can cure some problems but ultimately cause other ones. I often use some elements of the theory as a practice drill at the range when working on trying to stay more centred over the ball. I'm not a powerful player and I have a tendency to drive too much with my hips and consequently get ahead of the ball at impact.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well in my original post.

Check out this further analysis of tigers swing.

http://www.waynedefrancesco.com/video-on-homepage/tiger-woods-in-2000-the-myth-of-the-perfect-swing/

Another nice sequence showing the history of tigers swing, with comments from each of his coaches.


http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/swing-sequences/2011-04/photos-tiger-woods#

Swing is a little more solid out at the Tavistock still got a few loose cannons in there but his long game is starting to look more promising slowly for Augusta the big question is his chipping/short game, he used to take the club more outside and used the bounce more whereas now he is taking it more inside and it looks slightly hooded meaning he is having to hit down more to make the ball pop up.


I can see some benefits in some elements of stack and tilt and have adopted the more weight on left side myself, since suffering pain in my left knee for which I have to see a surgeon about this week! It is due to this that I think Tiger will persist due to the knee pain he had for so long so he is looking to perfect a swing that will give him at least another 10 years on tour to overhaul Jacks record. Its a long slow process for him but I think in the end he'll get there