Haye's Last Stand - Will He Have The Bottle To Salvage Some Respect

So with some minor hoop-la over the past few days it now appears likely that Haye and Vitali will share the square ring. Two fighters coming to the end of their career.

Mr Vitali has clearly intimated his desire to pound the younger David into a meaty pulp. There's isn't much to read between the lines when considering the cognitive process of the leading fighter of his generation. The cerebral precaution of his younger, shall we just say it, cleverer brother is just not as present.

Haye's lip has now been written into the history of HW boxing but to date his mouth will only be remembered to highlight his lack of ability, heart and desire when it came to the biggest fight of his career against Wladimir, supposedly his swan song. That fight against Wladimir was a terrible indictment on, let's be honest, Haye's fairly decent career as a Cruiser.

So how does Haye close the show in his last fight.


Does he repeat the Wladimir performance and end up consigned to the scrap heap of the ridiculed? A performance all about taking the money and doing a runner, foregoing his reputation even further.

or

Does he become the man he professes to be, a man who while starring at the jaws of defeat goes out to restore his credibility. Will he chose a noble defeat, going out as a true warrior on his shield? could he even dare to dream of winning the fight?

I fear it will be the former, it was clear after a few rounds plan A was not working against Wlad and yet it prompted no urgency, no change in tactics, no blaze of glory heculean effort, just more of the same that was not working.

Given he has made no apparent changes to his team and seemed overly quick to dismiss the first fight as the outcome of a poorly toe one has to wonder what evidence there is to think he will perform any differently this time round, particularly as he is going straight back in with no warm up fights.

Is a real pity as his stock could not be any lower but as Brits we are a pretty forgiving bunch, particularly with heavyweights and you have to feel even if he loses to Vitali, as I am sure he will if he went down with a bang rather than a whimper he would be able to rescue something of his tarnished reputation.

What's new about this fight being made? Last i heard they were calling a presser for tomorrow to announce his retirement?!

In an ideal world he would knock out the seemingly iron chinned invincible Vitali.

In a not so ideal world he's go out on his shield after throwing everything he had at the iron chinned giant before being pulled out on cuts in a fight of the year candidate.

In the real world he'd probably run and try to potshot in a bore fest.

I can't see Haye salvaging any respect in this fight unless he pulls off a miracle and stops Vitali.

Arreola and Adamek were less skilled than Haye, but a darned sight tougher and more durable, hence they were accorded respect for trying to make a fight of it and taking a beating.

Haye couldn't take the beating they did, so he would either retire into his shell like he did against Wlad, or get sparked early going for a KO.

Neither scenario will gain my respect.

Coxy


Boente is saying he is in negotiations with Adam Booth.

The fight seems a runner. Haye announcing his retirement appears to be a publicity stunt.

They are just trying to set up a "will he, won't he" scenario to suck in gullible fans again.

Bob wrote:I can't see Haye salvaging any respect in this fight unless he pulls off a miracle and stops Vitali.

Arreola and Adamek were less skilled than Haye, but a darned sight tougher and more durable, hence they were accorded respect for trying to make a fight of it and taking a beating.

Haye couldn't take the beating they did, so he would either retire into his shell like he did against Wlad, or get sparked early going for a KO.

Neither scenario will gain my respect.

Haye would get my respect if he had a go and got KO'd in then process. He will be heavy underdog and not expected to win. A gutsy performance even in defeat, as Jeff said above, would more than likely go down well with the British public.

coxy0001 wrote:What's new about this fight being made? Last i heard they were calling a presser for tomorrow to announce his retirement?!

In an ideal world he would knock out the seemingly iron chinned invincible Vitali.

In a not so ideal world he's go out on his shield after throwing everything he had at the iron chinned giant before being pulled out on cuts in a fight of the year candidate.

In the real world he'd probably run and try to potshot in a bore fest.

In an ideal world Haye would get sparked in 1 round.

In a not so ideal world Haye would get stopped late on.

In the real world Haye lasts the distance but loses on points.

Strongback wrote:

Bob wrote:I can't see Haye salvaging any respect in this fight unless he pulls off a miracle and stops Vitali.

Arreola and Adamek were less skilled than Haye, but a darned sight tougher and more durable, hence they were accorded respect for trying to make a fight of it and taking a beating.

Haye couldn't take the beating they did, so he would either retire into his shell like he did against Wlad, or get sparked early going for a KO.

Neither scenario will gain my respect.

Haye would get my respect if he had a go and got KO'd in then process. He will be heavy underdog and not expected to win. A gutsy performance even in defeat, as Jeff said above, would more than likely go down well with the British public.

A gutsy performance like what?

I could see this fight going a la Manny-Hatton, and to say that was a gutsy performance is a condescending platitude at best.

I'd rather Haye retire.

I'm not convinced that Vitali really has any genuine deep rooted dislike towards Haye. Instead, I imagine he just saw how much money his younger bro made from fighting him and now also wants a slice of the cake. After all, there isnt any other credible or financially lucrative fight left for either brother (excluding each other).

Likewise, I feel Haye is just looking for one final paycheque. His heart is clearly no longer in the sport and I doubt he even has any belief that he can actually win this fight.

Haye will fight in his usual, ambush style. However, Vitali's size and strength added with Haye's suspect stamina will mean Haye will just stay on the outside/backfoot, launch the occassional attack but attempt to remain elusive enough to avoid a stoppage loss.

Vitali UD.

Bob

Vitali isn't Manny, he's much more cautious. Hatton thought he could out muscle Manny which was a big error. Hatton went face first into a lethally quick powerful puncher.

Vitali will fight like Wlad behind the jab and will not tear into Haye. It would be more of a grinding down process but he would take more chances than Wlad did. If Haye planted his feet and threw more punches he would win respect. Vitali rarely gets a stoppage in the first half of the fight these days and his punches have lost snap and KO power. I would see Haye lasting 7 or 8 rounds at least if he came to fight against Vitali.

Surely he can't run around the ring again?

Hate to say this but cant see Haye winning unless Vatali gasses himself out trying to KO Haye.

How I expect the fight to go is Vatali trying to KO him within the first 6 rounds and if he cant settle down and coast to a comfortable points victory.

Think people are being harsh on Haye yes he lost to wlad but Wlad is a class boxer he did better than most.

Seems more people are up for vitali to beat him not sure why tbh I think it would be better to have a British champ.

Can Haye win? I think he can but he needs to make changes and cant use the same gameplan maybe he needs a new trainer.

Waingro wrote:Think people are being harsh on Haye yes he lost to wlad but Wlad is a class boxer he did better than most.

Seems more people are up for vitali to beat him not sure why tbh I think it would be better to have a British champ.

Can Haye win? I think he can but he needs to make changes and cant use the same gameplan maybe he needs a new trainer.

Lennox Lewis is up for the job by all accounts.

trottb wrote:

Waingro wrote:Think people are being harsh on Haye yes he lost to wlad but Wlad is a class boxer he did better than most.

Seems more people are up for vitali to beat him not sure why tbh I think it would be better to have a British champ.

Can Haye win? I think he can but he needs to make changes and cant use the same gameplan maybe he needs a new trainer.

Lennox Lewis is up for the job by all accounts.

Chris Byrd will be gutted.

rowley wrote:

trottb wrote:

Waingro wrote:Think people are being harsh on Haye yes he lost to wlad but Wlad is a class boxer he did better than most.

Seems more people are up for vitali to beat him not sure why tbh I think it would be better to have a British champ.

Can Haye win? I think he can but he needs to make changes and cant use the same gameplan maybe he needs a new trainer.

Lennox Lewis is up for the job by all accounts.

Chris Byrd will be gutted.

Maybe they could team up. If they've both beat him then Haye will have twice as much chance of beating Vitali!

He could win by cuts or shoulder injury.

Is Pele Reid available?

We need someone who combines the attributes of the great heavyweights. The trainer's role for Haye can only be a job for Iron Jersey Rocky "The Lion" Ali, who will devise a plan that will have Vitali whimpering back to mother.

Waingro wrote:Think people are being harsh on Haye yes he lost to wlad but Wlad is a class boxer he did better than most.

Seems more people are up for vitali to beat him not sure why tbh I think it would be better to have a British champ.
Can Haye win? I think he can but he needs to make changes and cant use the same gameplan maybe he needs a new trainer.

I believe it's time for a champ from Mongolia.

Talented chaps, Mongolians. Very good at throat singing and pretty good at raising sheep.

HumanWindmill wrote:
Talented chaps, Mongolians. Very good at throat singing and pretty good at raising sheep.

Suspect you're confusing them with the Welsh Windy.

Also very talented at conquering half the known world while only mounted on horses and living in yurts, Windy. Certainly relevant. However, I favour a champ from Papua New Guinea, where the locals haven't had much to shout about since their rugby league team beat Great Britain a few years back.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Also very talented at conquering half the known world while only mounted on horses and living in yurts, Windy. Certainly relevant. However, I favour a champ from Papua New Guinea, where the locals haven't had much to shout about since their rugby league team beat Great Britain a few years back.

Quite so, captain, though people look at old armies with far too much nostalgia, of course. A champ from Papua New Guinea is appealing, though.

jeff, you wouldn't, by any chance, be trying to flush out our Steffan, would you?

Absolutely, Windy, The Mongols would never have stood up to the modern ammunition of the armies nowadays.

Bear in mind the modern training techniques would surely usurp such out- moded practices as drinking blood from human skulls

Fists of Fury wrote:Absolutely, Windy, The Mongols would never have stood up to the modern ammunition of the armies nowadays.

Had to go all posh on us and call them ' Mongols ' didn't you, Fists?

is Haye really that impudent that Kenghis Khan is required to save this thread.

Strongback, I didn't mean to sabotage your thread, but sometimes people say things that almost demand a flippant reply (not you, I hasten to add).

To answer your question, I'm not sure that legacy or respect are top of Haye's list of priorities, however much noise he may have made about both since becoming a heavyweight. The two paramount considerations, in no particular order, have been column inches and cash. One may well say that boxing is a brief career and that one should look to get everything out of it that one can, etc, etc. Fair enough, of course, but we're entitled to be sceptical about any sense of pride from a man who so recently back-pedalled for most of twelve rounds, in absolute defiance of the tear-up that he had promised, and then whipped out the throbbing toe to account for such a show.

You've got to imagine that the pattern of the last fight will be repeated. Set yourself up for minimum damage and hope that the pay-off overhand right might work. After that, trust to luck, damn the critics and cry all the way to the bank.

Still sitting on the fence when it comes to Haye I see Captain, take it this means we can put you down as an undecided when it comes to him getting in our HOF?

I've rarely seen such a Jekyll and Hyde character as Haye, Jeff. A warrior with a touch of class as a cruiserweight; a foul-mouthed huckster with a nice line in smoke and mirrors at the higher weight. He'd still be in my all-time top 30 Brits, oddly enough, but no, I think I could probably restrain myself from voting for his inclusion into any Hall of Fame that you might be able to imagine.

Retire or not, I don't see what he can do to make any kind of amends apart from beating a Klitschko, and even if he were to fight and beat Vitali there are a good number of people who will say "OK, well done but he's hardly the embodiment of youth". As far as the heavyweight scene goes Haye is/has been a 'little guy' who's done alright insofar as he won a belt and beat a few opponents. That's all. He fell short of what was needed, and if he wants to take the money and run then good luck to him. In the long run he's potentially been quite damaging to the relationship between future British heavyweights and the paying public. I've personally gone off boxing a bit of late what with the whimsical stripping and appointing of 'champions' and farcical scenarios such as this one and the P*******/M********* debacle.

Think you have touched on why he attracts the vitriol he does Captain, he is far from the first British heavyweight to not quite deliver on the big stage but think there were more than a few people, myself included, willing to believe that based on his cruiser reign that even if he fell short at heavy he could at least be relied upon to breath some life into the division, that he has failed to do so in such spectacular fashion is beyond disappointing.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Strongback, I didn't mean to sabotage your thread, but sometimes people say things that almost demand a flippant reply (not you, I hasten to add).

My comment was in jest, meant more as a slight at Haye's lack of effectiveness.

What's stands out boldly is how very far Haye's star has fallen. He has virtually no popular support which wasn't the case before the Wladimir fight. If this lack of support for Haye is mirrored by the general public it is hard to see the fight delivering good PPV figures in Britain. How the purse is split may take some negotiation particularly if Vitali's people play hard ball.

Strongback wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Strongback, I didn't mean to sabotage your thread, but sometimes people say things that almost demand a flippant reply (not you, I hasten to add).

My comment was in jest, meant more as a slight at Haye's lack of effectiveness.

What's stands out boldly is how very far Haye's star has fallen. He has virtually no popular support which wasn't the case before the Wladimir fight. If this lack of support for Haye is mirrored by the general public it is hard to see the fight delivering good PPV figures in Britain. How the purse is split may take some negotiation particularly if Vitali's people play hard ball.

Agree 100% Strongy, on the back of Harrison and Wlad and with Sky saying they are not really looking to do PPV Haye may be reduced to going onto Primetime or something similar, if he does this his bargaining position is going to be extremely weak. The brothers are known for being tough negotiators, with a guy they don't like who doesn't bring much in terms of sales to the table he could really find himself eating some massive humble pie if he wants this fight.

rowley wrote:

Strongback wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Strongback, I didn't mean to sabotage your thread, but sometimes people say things that almost demand a flippant reply (not you, I hasten to add).

My comment was in jest, meant more as a slight at Haye's lack of effectiveness.

What's stands out boldly is how very far Haye's star has fallen. He has virtually no popular support which wasn't the case before the Wladimir fight. If this lack of support for Haye is mirrored by the general public it is hard to see the fight delivering good PPV figures in Britain. How the purse is split may take some negotiation particularly if Vitali's people play hard ball.

Agree 100% Strongy, on the back of Harrison and Wlad and with Sky saying they are not really looking to do PPV Haye may be reduced to going onto Primetime or something similar, if he does this his bargaining position is going to be extremely weak. The brothers are known for being tough negotiators, with a guy they don't like who doesn't bring much in terms of sales to the table he could really find himself eating some massive humble pie if he wants this fight.

Can't really see it myself with his over inflated ego and sense of self worth, can you?