Pretty pathetic....and to think of all the people who said we were bad sports in 2007

First topic message reminder :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10758658

For guys like Biltong, this does them a bit of an injustice. I don't seem to recall a group of over 60,000 people asking for Wayne Barnes to never referee a game after 2007, pretty childish really.

As much as I think Bryce is overrated by the IRB, I don't think any man deserves the Poopie he's getting and nor did I think Barnes deserved it in 07, although he did have a poor game.

They're humans at the end of the day after all.

Peace out

The thing which kills off Watsons argument is when he said he had no problems with his first match in charge... which was the ENG vs. ARG match.

That was the match where he binned an ENG player due to the teams constant infringements... yet ARG gave away more penalties during the match yet not only did he not bin a ARG player but he didn't even give them a final warning.

We are all biased.... this is why Watson cannot referee a bok game... because as much as he says he is not.... he will be biased.

The game has moved on since his time and the breakdown has become much more difficult to administer. Saying that it doesn't take away the point that BL is a poor ref.... and he has been consistently poor for the whole RWC.

fa0019 wrote:The thing which kills off Watsons argument is when he said he had no problems with his first match in charge... which was the ENG vs. ARG match.

That was the match where he binned an ENG player due to the teams constant infringements... yet ARG gave away more penalties during the match yet not only did he not bin a ARG player but he didn't even give them a final warning.

What are you talking about? He gave Argentina plenty of final warnings.

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/content.php?222-Referee-Rankings-after-the-Quarter-Finals


As rated by his peers Lawrence is still the worst ref at the cup as he has been consitently through the entire comeptition including his handling of teh England game.

Amazing the IRB take the opposite view but there you go.



Still no reason for the OTT supporter reaction, although its nothing compared the Owens abuse .

TheGreyGhost wrote:

fa0019 wrote:The thing which kills off Watsons argument is when he said he had no problems with his first match in charge... which was the ENG vs. ARG match.

That was the match where he binned an ENG player due to the teams constant infringements... yet ARG gave away more penalties during the match yet not only did he not bin a ARG player but he didn't even give them a final warning.

What are you talking about? He have Argentina plenty of final warnings.

High Five emoticon required

Seabiscuit, don't be mischievous. That's not a rating of his peers.

Qfinal spots were apportioned based on peer reviews within the elite referee's community. So clearly they rated him up there.

I think he was very lax on breakdown infringements, which may have been what he thought was in order. Certainly with the injury to HB it made Australia's life easy. If the injury had gone the other way giving HB free reign at the breakdown, would SA fans be complaining now? I doubt it. They'd be celebrating his arrival as the world's greatest fetching flanker.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:http://www.rugbyrefs.com/content.php?222-Referee-Rankings-after-the-Quarter-Finals


As rated by his peers Lawrence is still the worst ref at the cup as he has been consitently through the entire comeptition including his handling of teh England game.

Amazing the IRB take the opposite view but there you go.

Still no reason for the OTT supporter reaction, although its nothing compared the Owens abuse .

That's an interesting article. IMO it's a little harsh on Pearson and Walsh, and a little generous to Barnes.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Seabiscuit, don't be mischievous. That's not a rating of his peers.

Qfinal spots were apportioned based on peer reviews within the elite referee's community. So clearly they rated him up there.

I think he was very lax on breakdown infringements, which may have been what he thought was in order. Certainly with the injury to HB it made Australia's life easy. If the injury had gone the other way giving HB free reign at the breakdown, would SA fans be complaining now? I doubt it. They'd be celebrating his arrival as the world's greatest fetching flanker.

Fair post!

I note from that table though that Joubert has awarded the highest number of penalties, presiding over the greatest number of stoppages and only completes 50% of the scrums.

Should make for a pretty tedious semi-final.

chewed_mintie wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:Like I said Alyn, Barnes didn't deserve what he got.

It isn't clever to try and turn this around as if to condone what is going on.

not sure i get your point then- I took the point of your thread to mean how unjust we were to the kiwis back in 2007 by calling you sore losers or chokers, but the saffas are acting worse today, so take it back!!- that is the jist of your post pal. and that is what we are comenting on!

bad reffing to the level shown shouldnt exsist when we have such tech advances- or they should be trying to work out ways of aiding the refs we have.

I am a neatural to both of those games, but as i am english and have felt the same during football world cup games.

Time to voice up and put pressure on the IRB to sort it out.

A petition should be raised about how to aid the refs(not ban the ref in question) but then again as pointed out - its still better than 'death threats'

No, my point was really that we don’t seem to have learnt (as rugby supporters in general) from 2007. What some NZers did then was reprehensible and immature. For the last few years, we have been all labelled as sore losers, even those who took that lose on the chin. Now the Sth Africans have blown their tops about this. As most of the labelling came from NH posters on the old 606, are they going to label the Saffa’s as such?

Someone made a brilliant observation earlier, after 2007 not one of the All Blacks players or coaching staff publicly blamed Wayne Barnes. Here, it’s taken John Smit all of 24 hrs to blame BL.

I’m also just trying to point out that until we have cyborgs controlling games, then I’m afraid human error will be part and parcel of Rugby (and sport in general).

well then pal - make the point without the undertones

When did "pal" make a resurgence? 6 Months ago it was never heard.

Now every second post has "Pal" in it.

Just a reminder to all those nostalgic folks behind this little fad: It's the digital age. There is no phase to alternate. Move on.

mystiroakey wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:Like I said Alyn, Barnes didn't deserve what he got.

It isn't clever to try and turn this around as if to condone what is going on.

not sure i get your point then- I took the point of your thread to mean how unjust we were to the kiwis back in 2007 by calling you sore losers or chokers, but the saffas are acting worse today, so take it back!!- that is the jist of your post pal. and that is what we are comenting on!

bad reffing to the level shown shouldnt exsist when we have such tech advances- or they should be trying to work out ways of aiding the refs we have.

I am a neatural to both of those games, but as i am english and have felt the same during football world cup games.

Time to voice up and put pressure on the IRB to sort it out.

A petition should be raised about how to aid the refs(not ban the ref in question) but then again as pointed out - its still better than 'death threats'

No, my point was really that we don’t seem to have learnt (as rugby supporters in general) from 2007. What some NZers did then was reprehensible and immature. For the last few years, we have been all labelled as sore losers, even those who took that lose on the chin. Now the Sth Africans have blown their tops about this. As most of the labelling came from NH posters on the old 606, are they going to label the Saffa’s as such?

Someone made a brilliant observation earlier, after 2007 not one of the All Blacks players or coaching staff publicly blamed Wayne Barnes. Here, it’s taken John Smit all of 24 hrs to blame BL.

I’m also just trying to point out that until we have cyborgs controlling games, then I’m afraid human error will be part and parcel of Rugby (and sport in general).

well then pal - make the point without the undertones

Sorry 'pal' think you're looking for something in my post that isn't there. Suggest you brush up on reading skills and then come back to me 'pal'

It isn't just Lawrence who has had shockers in the RWC. It didn't affect the result but Nigel Owens performance in the NZ-Arg QF was also pretty dismal and he looked as if he was just waiting to ping the Pumpa while letting McCaw run riot coming in from the side. There was one ruck I think in the second half when Owens was standing a couple of metres from a ruck and McCaw right in front him flopping in from the side killing the Argie ball and getting away with it.

That said, Owens record as a ref is pretty good and every ref is entitled to an off day. It's just unfortunate for SA that Lawrence's off day was their QF against Oz. But whatever a ref does, any team with the possession and territory stats SA had should score more than 2PG and 1DG over 80 minutes. And yes, Lawrence did get two key decisions right - the pass for Lambie's try was forward and Roussow did pull the Oz no8 down in the line out for JOC's PG at the end.

Given his record, I never thought I'd see the day when Steve Walsh is one of the best refs in a RWC. Fair f***ks to him.

Biltong,

Just checking to make sure you're still there and after the loss by SA to Aus in the cricket that we don't have to put you on suicide watch

Former Test referee Andre Watson believes Bryce Lawrence will never control a Rugby World Cup game again after his performance in last weekend's quarter-final victory for Australia over the Springboks. The South African, who is the only man to referee two World Cup finals, said: "He allowed a free-for-all." Watson added that Lawrence, who is rated as one of the best referee's in the Southern Hemisphere after taking control of the Super 15 final, will be admonished by the IRB and will never control a match at the tournament again.

Now now Otago...no need for that...
You going to the match Sunday?

Taylorman wrote:Now now Otago...no need for that...
You going to the match Sunday?

It was meant to be in good humour as Biltong had said after the QF that at least he had some cricket to look forward to with Aus arriving in the Republic - just wanted to make sure he was OK .

Yep, I'm flying up from Chch to Jaffaville on Sunday and back on Monday - as I've said to friends, I'll be there when the AB's win the cup or when they flame out - hopefully the former obviously. Will you make it to anymore games?

How's the dog holding up Biltong?

Hi ya biltong.
Hows things. Been a bit of a tough week for ya I know.

The loss kind of closes off one chapter for another one to open.

2 months to look for a new coach I believe.
With you and oz both likely to have young teams next year our oldies might struggle to keep up.
So a new era for us all i reckon.
Theyll be fine. Youll be fine.

Sit back and relax a bit while we all stress it out this weekend. Would still lke to hear ypur opinions on the two matches. We could be joining you after all

brennomac wrote:It isn't just Lawrence who has had shockers in the RWC. It didn't affect the result but Nigel Owens performance in the NZ-Arg QF was also pretty dismal and he looked as if he was just waiting to ping the Pumpa while letting McCaw run riot coming in from the side. There was one ruck I think in the second half when Owens was standing a couple of metres from a ruck and McCaw right in front him flopping in from the side killing the Argie ball and getting away with it.

That said, Owens record as a ref is pretty good and every ref is entitled to an off day. It's just unfortunate for SA that Lawrence's off day was their QF against Oz. But whatever a ref does, any team with the possession and territory stats SA had should score more than 2PG and 1DG over 80 minutes. And yes, Lawrence did get two key decisions right - the pass for Lambie's try was forward and Roussow did pull the Oz no8 down in the line out for JOC's PG at the end.

Given his record, I never thought I'd see the day when Steve Walsh is one of the best refs in a RWC. Fair f***ks to him.

There's been a lot of talk about BL having an off day. For me he reffed the same he normally does in 3N and in Super Rugby. Take a look at the Crusaders and Reds Super Rugby Final -both packs off their feet and offside all day. He rarely blows up a ruck - SA would have had all the tapes on hand if they wanted to look at his style and adjust for it.

The bottom line is, if you can't cope with the random factor of referee error, you might be better advised to give up watching/playing. It will always be there, rarely because refs have agendas against particular teams, even if it feels like it. Being big enough to accept that sometimes things go against you unfairly or unluckily is part of what sport is about.

And that's just what I'll say if we lose to France tomorrow because of some try after a missed forward pass...erm, maybe

Random factor refereeing error and an off day fine. But when one ref is consistently poor for the entire tournament, referees to his own ruleset, and still gets picked for a quarter final...you have to wonder what went on that meeting.
No doubt theyll bring back Barnes for the France NZ final.

Without a Ref you don't have a game, all rather pathetic really.

SA weren't going to win anyway, half the team were past there best in 2008 and were only hanging around to pick up more caps to satisfy their own personal glory.

I am amazed Wayne Barnes has made it this far, he is as inept as his fellow countrymen have been this tournament!

Cue, a major match changing error from him!

There is absolutely no conspiracy, because as a Kiwi Bryce Lawrence will know that the team the AB's really fear is not the Springboks, but good old OZ as they have a real inferiority complex regarding their larger and more populous neighbours, and fear them for being what Will Carling described as being ' Very intelligent beasts'

The AB's know this and they also know that when it counts no-one team can pressure them like the Aussies. So forget the fear of SA by the Kiwi's and understand that there is no team they would rather less face at this stage. Hence there is no conspiracy, just the prospect of a truly great game, which i hope the Aussies win!!