I Told You So.

So I was right about a great number of things.


1-Hook will cost Wales a place in the Final
2-Warburton shouldn’t be captain.
3-Never write off the French
4-Rolland isn’t a very good Ref
5-The RWC has been a non event.

Reasons

1-Hook is just too inconsistent to play No10 Jones should have started and Wales would have won even with 14 men.

2-Warburton is just too young to be a captain, it wasn’t that long ago he was just trying to get in the team, other senior players should have taken the burden of the captaincy, during the anthems you could see Sam was over hyped and pumped up.

3-The Welsh fell into the same trap as England the week before and believed the French were so bad that they could be beaten easily.

4-For too long people have said he’s a good Ref, you only have to look at his past performances to see his a biased little git and more often than not the team he wants to win, wins!

5-The Final will be a non event, NZ will win, roll on the 6 Nations for some real drama and skill.


It’s such a shame Wales didn't make the final as I believe they could have competed with NZ for most of the game, and for what its worth it wasn't a Red card, if it was for dangerous play then define dangerous?

If a prop collapses a scrum and wasn't binding correctly or not at all then surely he should be red carded for endangering the other players in the front row as this is dangerous play, is it not?

You're right about one thing: that James Hook had a shocker. Everything else you've written is just plain wrong.

HERSH, you really do talk some nonsense mate. I sincerely hope that nobody bites and gives you the reaction that you are clearly looking for.

Very sad indeed.

Your 5th point is the province of the loser

I call it as I see it Ozzy.

These are of course my opinions people can agree or disagree, that is the point of a discussion board

But some people have pre conceived views (like yours) once they see who the post was written by, of that I have no control.

Look, as a neutral France aren't as bad as they've shown themselves to be at this World cup, not by a long way, and to also be perfectly frank Wales aren't as good as their fans and some commentators seem to make out.

France have been to finals and semi's before ,while Wales haven't (much) and they know just what to do, or how much to do and all the Welsh bombast in the world won't change the reality, which is that France are a top tier team, for all their frailties, and Wales are a second tier team and even if Warbs had stopped on the pitch, there is no certainty that Wales would have won. So get over it and reflect on a World cup campaign where you punched abouve your weight!!

HERSH, no preconception from me fella, I just read what you'd written and in my opinion it is a complete load of nonsense, with little or no validity. Keep up the good work.

never "write" off the French.

Thanks walesworldcup.

Looks like you might have to change your name.

how about GowerShowerPower?

HERSH wrote:I call it as I see it Ozzy.

Maybe you need glasses so.

1-Hook will cost Wales a place in the Final - No he didn't, yes he had a very poor game and missed two kicks but Jones also missed one that a top class kicker should have slotted. Warburton getting sent off didn't help but what about the players who give away the 3 penalties that France kicked.

2-Warburton shouldn’t be captain - Yes he should, other than Saturdays incident he has been exemplary both on and off the field and has portrayed himself in front of the cameras very well indeed, other players have been given the captaincy and none have done a better job than Sam has done during the WC.

3-Never right off the French - One point I agree with but the ABs should and will win very comfortably.

4-Rolland isn’t a very good Ref - He will be public enemy No1 but he got it right by the letter of the law, I still think its a harsh red and should have consulted with touch judges but in cold light of day it was a correct call. Consistency is what we ask for.

5-The RWC has been a non event - Its more of an event than 07 when the two most most boring and defence orientated sides got there but like this year none of their fans will be bothered.

[quote="bedfordwelsh"]

4-Rolland isn’t a very good Ref - He will be public enemy No1 but he got it right by the letter of the law, I still think its a harsh red and should have consulted with touch judges but in cold light of day it was a correct call. Consistency is what we ask for.

There really was no need for him to consult anyone, he got it bang on right!

You could argue that other refs have got it wrong elsewhere in the RWC, but it is largely irrelevent, AR was spot on with this decision, lets hope this type of dangerous tackle is phased out!

Warburton was a case of too much too soon, captains lead by example and in that situation of a SF Sam blew it by trying too hard.

He'll learn from it and go on to be a great captain but IMO he shouldn't have been captain yet, and I was proved right.

The Welsh players lack of big games in the HC really showed up in that game.

Not really sure i agree with any of your points really Hersh.

I think that Warburton is a natural leader and inspires his team. Hook didnt cost Wales a world cup final either.

Rolland is normally a very good ref, it took some ...... to make such a big decision.

HERSH wrote:The Welsh players lack of big games in the HC really showed up in that game.

That's one of the daftest things you've written, which is saying something. Ireland are overflowing with Heineken Cup-winning players and their experience counted for nothing in the quarter final. (That's not meant as a slight against Ireland, although I still don't understand why they didn't kick the penalties on offer in the first half of that match.)

There really was no need for him to consult anyone, he got it bang on right!

JD,

Of course you are right but IMO the decision seemed rushed and maybe getting his touch judges view might have changed it, then again it might have not.

As I said decision was a correct one so no complaints overall.

If he had consulted with the touch judges and come to the same conclusion would more people have accepted it?

Davie wrote:If he had consulted with the touch judges and come to the same conclusion would more people have accepted it?

Yes because it appeared to be a rushed decision more suited to football than rugby, the ref normally asks for the touch judges for their opinion and recommendation if anything this gives the Ref a chance to calm down himself and make an informed call, which in this case didn't happen, Warburton could have been cited after the game if the citing commissioner felt he got off lightly.

Personally i feel that the decision was also rushed but at the same time Rolland obviously deemed it to be dangerous and felt well within his rights to send him off.. Letter of the law says he was right but i personally thought that it was a bit overzealous.

HERSH wrote:

Davie wrote:If he had consulted with the touch judges and come to the same conclusion would more people have accepted it?

Yes because it appeared to be a rushed decision more suited to football than rugby, the ref normally asks for the touch judges for their opinion and recommendation if anything this gives the Ref a chance to calm down himself and make an informed call, which in this case didn't happen, Warburton could have been cited after the game if the citing commissioner felt he got off lightly.

Steve Walsh was admonished byu the IRB earlier in the tournament for taking that appraoch though. It is clear what the IRB want from their refs in this regard and Rolland delivered it.

This all stinks of the IRB wanting NZ to win the RWC, Wales posed the most serious threat therefore they were taken out of the competition that’s why Rolland penalise Mas when Charteris was holding on because he was suffering inside and knew it wasn't right.

Funny how Pocock was singled out from the 1st minute of the other SF!

I wonder?

HERSH wrote:This all stinks of the IRB wanting NZ to win the RWC, Wales posed the most serious threat therefore they were taken out of the competition that’s why Rolland penalise Mas when Charteris was holding on because he was suffering inside and knew it wasn't right.

Funny how Pocock was singled out from the 1st minute of the other SF!

I wonder?

Alain Rolland- What a guy! And to think he has been accused of lacking empathy!

HERSH wrote:This all stinks of the IRB wanting NZ to win the RWC, Wales posed the most serious threat therefore they were taken out of the competition that’s why Rolland penalise Mas when Charteris was holding on because he was suffering inside and knew it wasn't right.

Funny how Pocock was singled out from the 1st minute of the other SF!

I wonder?

Hersh, Pocock wasn't singled out, He was officiated in accordance to the law, the same as McCaw was.

HERSH wrote:So I was right about a great number of things.

...
5-The Final will be a non event, NZ will win, roll on the 6 Nations for some real drama and albeit with less skill.

...

Fixed that for you

Maybe kiwi, but certainly more passion

HERSH wrote:Maybe kiwi, but certainly more passion

I've never denied that

Just out of interest, has anyone seen the tackle that Florian Fritz put in on Tom Varndell in the Heineken Cup this year? Rolland was referee and Fritz got sent off, so he has form for being "on" the tip tackle. Just a shame that no other refs have the consistency, or it would be easier to accept. Re, the Fritz tackle I didn't think that was a red card either. Varndell didn't get turned over as much, but he was driven into the floor, so I don't know.

HERSH wrote:

Davie wrote:If he had consulted with the touch judges and come to the same conclusion would more people have accepted it?

Yes because it appeared to be a rushed decision more suited to football than rugby, the ref normally asks for the touch judges for their opinion and recommendation if anything this gives the Ref a chance to calm down himself and make an informed call, which in this case didn't happen, Warburton could have been cited after the game if the citing commissioner felt he got off lightly.

If unsighted.

It happened right in front of the ref, there was no need to discuss what was a clear red. The ref is the sole arbiter of the laws.

Alain 'Colm Pierre' Rolland lost his cool F A C T.

HERSH wrote:Alain 'Colm Pierre' Rolland lost his cool F A C T.

he still got it bang on right though!

I dont understand all this talk about Rolland consulting the judges - if your 100% certain then why would he? We are all assuming that he made a rash decision however as far as we know he was prob 100% sure of his decision.

Still gutted but if anybody's to blame its the kickers, I personally thought Gatland chose the wrong fly half to start, it was clear from the start that Wales were kicking the ball back needlessly and it was back to the Wales we have known for the last few years.

Any news on Priestland for Friday?

Alain Rolland, perhaps, just perhaps got the decision right, in the letter of the law, but in the real world that was a Yellow and totally ruined a game i had been looking forward to, so right in one way, but too rushed and quite simply an over-reaction.

english,

Well said, plain simple to the point and RIGHT.

When you say "totally ruined the game", don't you really mean "resulted in a scoreline that wasn't favourable to the team I wanted to win"?

Did it really "ruin the game"? There was a single point in it after 80 minutes and the last 5 minutes of the game was incredibly tense with Wales on continuous attack and the French defending through something like 27 phases of uninterupted play.

Does that sound like a "ruined game"? I don't think so

Had Warburton only received a yellow and 10 minutes in the sin-bin, maybe Wales would have gone on and won by 20-30 points. Would that have been a better game to watch?

english warrior wrote:Alain Rolland, perhaps, just perhaps got the decision right, in the letter of the law, but in the real world that was a Yellow and totally ruined a game i had been looking forward to, so right in one way, but too rushed and quite simply an over-reaction.

Awww, it ruined the game you wanted to watch. Poor you.

I suggest you write to the IRB and ask them to direct the refs to ignore all red card offences during games you want to enjoy. They should only apply the laws to games you don't care about, eh?

Grey's just a bitter 606er poster don't rise to the bait English Warrior, anyone with common sense or who watches rugby week in week out knows it was a yellow card.

HERSH you must know who I am by now, not "GowerShowerPower".

I told you so. And repeatedly told you so. Even though you kept on ignoring me.

If your 5 points were horses, the RSPCA would be reading your rights now.

On point #1 I can only salute you. The rest however...

Warburton is a much better captain than you make out. His age and, as you seem to consider important, the way he looked during the anthems are entirely irrelevant compared to results and on that front Warbs has led us to our first semi since 87 and our closest yet to a RWC final.

The French weren't written off and were outplayed even with a numerical advantage. The only area they bossed was the lineout. On level terms we would have stuffed them.

I've already said numerous times I don't agree with Rolland's decision but one decision doesn't make his career.

Your fifth claim is 100% subjective and as others have stated, sore loser talk. Ask any New Zealander, Frenchman, Irishman, Welshman, Samoan, Tongan, South African and other various populations whether this was a non-event and I guarantee you the answer will be in the negative. Your unique opinion doesn't make it true.

I know, I've sunk to the WUM and I apologize.

HERSH wrote:Grey's just a bitter 606er poster don't rise to the bait English Warrior, anyone with common sense or who watches rugby week in week out knows it was a yellow card.

No, I'm just a 606 poster, just like you.

The only difference is I'm not a serial wum. Didn't you promise not to wum when you crawled back in here? Nice to see you keep your promises.

HERSH wrote:So I was right about a great number of things.


1-Hook will cost Wales a place in the Final
2-Warburton shouldn’t be captain.
3-Never write off the French
4-Rolland isn’t a very good Ref
5-The RWC has been a non event.

Reasons

1-Hook is just too inconsistent to play No10 Jones should have started and Wales would have won even with 14 men.

2-Warburton is just too young to be a captain, it wasn’t that long ago he was just trying to get in the team, other senior players should have taken the burden of the captaincy, during the anthems you could see Sam was over hyped and pumped up.

3-The Welsh fell into the same trap as England the week before and believed the French were so bad that they could be beaten easily.

4-For too long people have said he’s a good Ref, you only have to look at his past performances to see his a biased little git and more often than not the team he wants to win, wins!

5-The Final will be a non event, NZ will win, roll on the 6 Nations for some real drama and skill.


It’s such a shame Wales didn't make the final as I believe they could have competed with NZ for most of the game, and for what its worth it wasn't a Red card, if it was for dangerous play then define dangerous?

If a prop collapses a scrum and wasn't binding correctly or not at all then surely he should be red carded for endangering the other players in the front row as this is dangerous play, is it not?

You are right.

Ah, reverse psychology... clever!

HERSH wrote:So I was right about a great number of things.

1-Hook will cost Wales a place in the Final
2-Warburton shouldn’t be captain.
3-Never write off the French
4-Rolland isn’t a very good Ref
5-The RWC has been a non event.

Several people have accused us of being twin brothers if not the same person but I'm going to totally disagree with you on most of your points.

1) A bad set of circumstances cost Wales a place in the final the biggest of which was losing on the score board to France!
The red card didnt help at all, as Wales were dominant until then. Clerc run into Warburton, Warburton drove him back, as a result Clerc was lifted in the air and Warburton let him go, resulting in Clerc landing heavily on his back / neck area.

Lets pretend a French forward had done this to Shane Williams, there would of been a riot in Wales! Effigies of the French player would of burnt in the street and Welsh people would of refused to buy French products at super markets, it would of taken them years to of been forgiven!

Rolland could of done things differently but he applied the letter of the law and sent a Welsh player off. It's been pretty much accepted now by the Welsh coaching team including Gatland, now the emotion has died down that the referee was correct, though it did sadly spoil the game.
I still say Rowland is a great referee, and no one was moaning when he was given the Samoa game to referee and Wales partially won that game because he is so strict and doesn't allow dangerous play or cheap shots. It's hypocritical to be happy when the Samoans can't rough us up because we have a strict ref, but píss and whinge when we have an unfortunate set of circumstances that damage Wales chances of winning a game, that's rugby I'm afraid.
Secondly "IF" Wales had taken any of our kicking chances we could of won, it's no ones fault that so many chances were lost. I don;t blame Hook for that because Stephen Jones had a bad day with the boot in 2007 when Fiji knocked us out, kickers have off days sadly all of our boys seem to of had one on the same day!

2) Warburton has done a fantastic job in the absence of Rees, we could not of asked any more of a kid who's still only 22 and already looks one of the top 3 in the world in his position. No one in Wales will blame him or knock him for his efforts, he did more for Wales then we ever thought possible and will be supported.

3) I agree never write off the French, every time Wales are confident against them we always lose, every time we think we can't possibly win we normally do though!
I knew it was a mistake for Wales to big themselves up, it doesn't work well with Welsh players mentally.

4) No he is a dam good ref, but I think he should not be allowed to referee France because his father is French and it leaves him open to situations where people can scream bias at him. There have been several situation now where he could of given a different decision but often it is the decision which will benefit France the most, he sent off Warburton and in 2007 he sent off a Namibian player for a arm across the shoulder (nothing more than that) both very early in the game. I do wonder if a French player had done it whether the red would still come out.
Secondly Imanol Harinordoquy can clearly be seen pushing his fist into Alun-Wyn Jones face after the Warburton tackle, if were applying the letter of the law that is a strike to the face and a red card also. It was ignored, why was it ignored? If were being strict then 2 players should of walked.

5) Rubbish!!! This World Cup has been wonderful, the kick off times for Europe have been awful of course, and anyone with a job would of missed most of it unless they were dedicated enough to still want to watch the games after potentially finding the results out.
New Zealand have really made a massive effort in this competition and the IRB was justified in giving them the chance to host it, however murky the process was of them being awarded their chance.
It's not as good as the 1995 tournament but it is better than all the others by some margin in my opinion.

AlynDavies wrote:There have been several situation now where he could of given a different decision but often it is the decision which will benefit France the most, he sent off Warburton and in 2007 he sent off a Namibian player for a arm across the shoulder (nothing more than that) both very early in the game. I do wonder if a French player had done it whether the red would still come out.

Yes, it would have, just as it came out for Fritz in the HEC when he did a similar tackle. Clear evidence that he's just as prepared to red card a French player if necessary.

greybeard wrote:Yes, it would have, just as it came out for Fritz in the HEC when he did a similar tackle. Clear evidence that he's just as prepared to red card a French player if necessary.

Then I'll consider the query answered.
Rolland is still the best referee in the Rabo direct league countries by some margin though, and I have never been unhappy when he has been appointed to a Wales game.
At least Rolland keep his head down and mouth shut, Owens can, "on occasion" be a bit of an attention whoré.

Club vs country are two different things Greybeard, maybe his follows Toulon not Toulouse!

So that proves nothing.

It does prove one thing about you Hersh.

Rubbish, if he sent off an English player against a French team in the HEC you'd be spouting the same BS.

No I wouldn't.