India vs England 2nd ODI Debate

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Terrible start for England, with Cook and Kieswetter both falling for 0.

2/2 after 3 overs, very disappointing start after winning the toss, with both batsmen apparently getting out to innocuous deliveries.

couple more wickets could make it interesting, but England need them quickly. Kohli starting to play some beautiful shots, but Gambhir still doesn't look settled at all

why is Dernbach bowling leg stump half volleys to Kohli, who's very strong off his legs?

I think that its already getting to the point of no return for England. Without wickets soon India will be able to just go home in cruise control without taking risks

Cracking shot from Kohli

Hmm Kohli drives for four past Finn, was in the air though, but again, fortune not going England's way.

I think India are getting the hang of Dernbach, I'd give Meaker or Woakes a go next game

Fists of Fury wrote:Looks like this game is over, let's entertain ourselves with my central contracts thread instead haha.

In all seriousness though, how bloody annoying is it to not only see a man that should be out getting runs against you, but even worse when they're mostly off the edge. Frustrating, but I guess India need some help after the annihilation we served up in England.

Fists, I think I have to take issue with this one. Gambhir wasn't out, at most it was a touch and go call. It is not something like he edged and the umpire missed or he didn't walk.
Anyone remember Bellgate?

fifty for Kohli. Well batted

MSP, in my book that was out, he moved away far far too late. Anyway, never mind, it's happened now and India are well on their way to a 2-0 lead.

fifty for Gambhir, don't think many English will be applauding him though...

so.. changes needed for the next game for England? Patel has shown once again how ineffective he is as a bowler here, though he batted well enough. Time to give Borthwick a go? Certainly feel England look incredibly jaded out in the field there, energy levels dropped completely after about ten overs. Does Bresnan for instance need a rest? Swann could probably do with one too. Should Bell come in as he's the best player of spin in the squad?

England have a tough winter schedule. This tour feels utterly pointless, so might as well see how the youngsters do IMO. Give Borthwick, Meaker and Woakes a chance, if they fail, doesn't matter, if they do well then great!

well india are showing that they can play in india, but nowhere else

Bell has to play, get him in for Bopara.

Borthwick in for Patel.

Meaker for Dernbach.

Woakes for Bresnan.

Might as well give them a bash, as you rightly say players such as Bresnan just look jaded, which again brings us back to how ridiculous this tour was in the first place, given that we actually have matches of importance in the winter.

Kohli and Gambhir are matching each other, run by run, shot by shot. England seems to have run out of answers. What a change the change of places have done to both sides!.

Honestly, does anyone remember Gambhir playing much off the front foot. Couple of shots off Swann and that's about it. Why do we keep bowling short to him then? Same with Patel, the two guys we should be bowling full too, simple. Then you bowl about fifth or sixth stump to Kohli to stop him clipping you through the leg side all day...

If anyone can turn it around, its that man Kevin Pietersen.
Seriously, England's chances of a wicket is in the contest between the 2 Indian batters!.

msp83 wrote:If anyone can turn it around, its that man Kevin Pietersen.
Seriously, England's chances of a wicket is in the contest between the 2 Indian batters!.

or in the fact that Kohli still can't play when you bowl just back of a length fifth stump

Gambhir is good of both back and front foot, but Parthiv's case is different. His backfoot game is much better than his front foot game. Yet surprisingly, England seem to have missed the point.

Particularly on Indian wickets, its not easy to contain Virat Kohli. But English bowlers are keeping a poor line and length to him.

England are tired, and India are not going to miss out on the chance to inflict a small measure of revenge here. 5-0 it will be, and if England get even one game close they'll have done better than I expected them to do...

"England look strangely hollow out there" from the BBC text. Hint to Mr Dirs: it has something to do with the fact that England would probably rather not be in India at all...

Finny has some energy left, bouncer at over 93 mph, good effort! Then again, he only played about two ODIs and a couple of T20s last summer didn't he?

Hmm said it in the last game, but IMO Patel is still some way off the fitness needed to be an international cricketer. Did anyone else see how knackered he looked today after getting out?

Sod this pyjamas garbage, we are most effective by far as a Test team, with our one day performances still lagging behind. Something about our players and their styles is just suited to the longer format.

Swann has looked really flat with the ball too. That's worrying, as we really need him at his best this winter.

He actually started well, but with that 10 over patch of seriously bad luck that England were made to endure it almost sapped the life out of our attack.

Swann is another that is most likely jaded, given the sheer amount of cricket he has played this year.

Maybe Borthwick in for Swann then? Give Patel one more chance to prove he can cut it at this level? Certainly would like to see Borthwick in, and Swann looks like he needs a break, as does Bresnan.

woops Trott drops a catch at deep mid-wicket, ah well

Utter garbage this fielding display from England has been, and it smacks of a team that simply doesn't want to be in India. Can't say I blame them, in all honesty. Any blame has to lie with the ECB.

actually one of the positives to come from this might just be that it'll lower expectations for the winter, and less pressure could help England. These batsmen have been very good at taking plenty of time between deliveries to make sure they're ready for the next one, England could learn from that (India got through their overs really quickly today)

MS Dhoni's observation on what it means by a sporting wicket in India is a well directed, and absolutely correct one. A sporting wicket in these conditions should turn a bit, a bit of bounce to accompany the turn would be perfect.

England had made some serious progress during the Strauss-flower days, and built on that under Cook. They should ensure they don't throw all tat away.
The fact that Kevin Pietersen's 46 was a top score in a decent ttotal says quite a few things. Trott, Bopara, Bairstow, and Samit Patel, they all, besides Pietersen got starts, but not even a single player scored a 50. That is serious problem.
India, trationaly an average fielding unit, have done really well in that department so far, while England's standards have slipped. They are indeed missing Ian Bell in the field with all those outfield catches. Patel is a nightmare, Trott, Pietersen, Cook, all need to work on this as well, as other than Samit, none of the others are naturally poor fielders.

some of the comments on here have been also as classless as bresnan and trott's behaviour. all this talk of 'meaningless series' is very comical. this tour was booked years ago, and it was a full tour, ie tests plus odi's. the tests have since been moved to next year. england have been outclassed in all departments. this talk of being tired is a joke. india have played the same amount of crcke as egland. the bowlers lack the skill needed to bowl in india. the batting line up isn't strong enough. england need to ditch kieswetter, why play 2 keepers?

side for mohali should be:
cook c
bell
trott
pietersen
bopara
bairstow w/k
woakes
bresnan
swann
meaker
borthwick

well you could say the same in reverse of india.

what a bag of Poopie both teams are abroad hey.

would also like to add that trott could open as well, he was batting really well today and was on top of the bowling

For India, the bowling worked as a unit. Vinay Kumar did well to pick up 4 wickets, even showing he can bring his pace up to the mid 130s at times. I hope he bowls at least at an average of at least 130 KMPH, a bowler bowling at an average of 124 KMPH, without much of swing, can't be expected to consistently trouble international batsmen.
Good to see Gambhir back among the runs, he has had a tough time with injuries in recent times, he should stay fit, with runs under his belt, when India go to Australia at the year end.
India should also think about giving Manoj Tiwary or another young and upcoming batsman an opportunity in place of Parthiv Patel. He of course is a decent wicket keeping backup, a backup opener. But a lot more can't be expected from him.

msp83 wrote:For India, the bowling worked as a unit. Vinay Kumar did well to pick up 4 wickets, even showing he can bring his pace up to the mid 130s at times. I hope he bowls at least at an average of at least 130 KMPH, a bowler bowling at an average of 124 KMPH, without much of swing, can't be expected to consistently trouble international batsmen.
Good to see Gambhir back among the runs, he has had a tough time with injuries in recent times, he should stay fit, with runs under his belt, when India go to Australia at the year end.
India should also think about giving Manoj Tiwary or another young and upcoming batsman an opportunity in place of Parthiv Patel. He of course is a decent wicket keeping backup, a backup opener. But a lot more can't be expected from him.

i find it strange that gambhir doesn't open. is this due to sachin and sehwag being the regular openers? what about uthappa?

Issac Watson wrote:some of the comments on here have been also as classless as bresnan and trott's behaviour. all this talk of 'meaningless series' is very comical. this tour was booked years ago, and it was a full tour, ie tests plus odi's. the tests have since been moved to next year. england have been outclassed in all departments. this talk of being tired is a joke. india have played the same amount of crcke as egland. the bowlers lack the skill needed to bowl in india. the batting line up isn't strong enough. england need to ditch kieswetter, why play 2 keepers?

side for mohali should bbbe:
cook c
bell
trott
pietersen
bopara
bairstow w/k
woakes
bresnan
swann
meaker
borthwick

If anything, the Indian's have played more cricket with all those T-20 bashings.

For one, they are playing two keepers because they believe they are in the best six batsmen in the country. Buttler isn't out there for the T20 squad to back up a keeper, it is because he is good enough to play as a batsman. Same with Johnny and Craig.

And as for your team Isaac, if Bell plays he can't open. He is our best player of spin so opening with him would be a waste. He has to bat 4/5 if he plays. And an aggressive player has to open with Cook incase Cook doesn't get us off to the flying start that we require. I'd stick with the same side for the next game at least, accept maybe giving Borthwick a bash for Dernbach or Patel. More than likely Dernbach for me, I'm beginning to think that playin three spinners might be a risk worth taking.

msp, to be fair though, most of India's side didn't play in the test series this summer. Of the top of my head only Dhoni, Praveen and Gambhir played. And then Gambhir missed the ODI series. Whereas with England Cook, Trott, Bell (although not playing), Pietersen, Bresnan and Swann all played in the Test series.

Gambhir has been doing a fine job at 3 for some time now, and when Tendulkar is playing he comes at 3.
But I think they should have him opening, with young Ajinkya Rahane coming in at 3, without a lot of pressure to set the pace of the innings.
May be they are not going that way because Parthiv Patel also is a lefty.

JDizzle wrote:For one, they are playing two keepers because they believe they are in the best six batsmen in the country. Buttler isn't out there for the T20 squad to back up a keeper, it is because he is good enough to play as a batsman. Same with Johnny and Craig.

And as for your team Isaac, if Bell plays he can't open. He is our best player of spin so opening with him would be a waste. He has to bat 4/5 if he plays. And an aggressive player has to open with Cook incase Cook doesn't get us off to the flying start that we require. I'd stick with the same side for the next game at least, accept maybe giving Borthwick a bash for Dernbach or Patel. More than likely Dernbach for me, I'm beginning to think that playin three spinners might be a risk worth taking.

mohali is a fast bowlers ground, 3 spinners would work in mumbai and kolkota though. regarding bell, india aren't exactly going all guns blazing, so bell could bat through and get 120-50 not out. you don't need to blast it. just pace yourself.

Fair enough, I don't know Indian grounds that well. I bow to you superior knowledge. In that case, I wouldn't change anything from today's side. Trouble is, when has Bell ever batted through an ODI for 120-150 not out? He has had plenty of chances, but has one or two centuries maximum in an ODI.

JDizzle wrote:Fair enough, I don't know Indian grounds that well. I bow to you superior knowledge. In that case, I wouldn't change anything from today's side. Trouble is, when has Bell ever batted through an ODI for 120-150 not out? He has had plenty of chances, but has one or two centuries maximum in an ODI.

very true about bell, but he's in great form, so he should take responsibility.

JDizzle wrote:msp, to be fair though, most of India's side didn't play in the test series this summer. Of the top of my head only Dhoni, Praveen and Gambhir played. And then Gambhir missed the ODI series. Whereas with England Cook, Trott, Bell (although not playing), Pietersen, Bresnan and Swann all played in the Test series.

Raina also JD.
Besides, Bresnan didn't play all of the test series, and he wasn't part of the Lanka series. Pietersen got time to rest during the ODIs against India and WI T-20s.
Dont think that line of argument can explain things a lot.
Its another matter that I consider the scheduling of the series right after the England tour problematic.

One man does not lose us a game, but Deadweight got out at completely the wrong time YET again. Had he made 75-100 then we would have been competitive.

Having said that we were awful today

msp83 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:msp, to be fair though, most of India's side didn't play in the test series this summer. Of the top of my head only Dhoni, Praveen and Gambhir played. And then Gambhir missed the ODI series. Whereas with England Cook, Trott, Bell (although not playing), Pietersen, Bresnan and Swann all played in the Test series.

Raina also JD.
Besides, Bresnan didn't play all of the test series, and he wasn't part of the Lanka series. Pietersen got time to rest during the ODIs against India and WI T-20s.
Dont think that line of argument can explain things a lot.
Its another matter that I consider the scheduling of the series right after the England tour problematic.

Good point, forgot about Raina. And big Tim played all but one of the Tests if I remember rightly? Or was it two he played. I don't know! I don't think that 2 weeks rest would be enough time for recuperation from a summer of Test match cricket, and also a huge tour of Aus over the winter for KP. If both sides were strongest obviously India would still be favourites to win but it would be closer. And I think England are more mentally tired that physically, they have reached their zenith. Beating Aus in Aus and then going unbeaten against India all summer and going to Test number 1 so I would imagine that they are struggling to get themselves up for this series, whereas India are desperate to redeem themselves after their stuffing in England.

As for Raina, he can't be tired! He barely spent anytime at the crease in the Test series...

Gregers wrote:One man does not lose us a game, but Deadweight got out at completely the wrong time YET again. Had he made 75-100 then we would have been competitive.

Having said that we were awful today

Who top scored for England today??????

JDizzle wrote:

msp83 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:msp, to be fair though, most of India's side didn't play in the test series this summer. Of the top of my head only Dhoni, Praveen and Gambhir played. And then Gambhir missed the ODI series. Whereas with England Cook, Trott, Bell (although not playing), Pietersen, Bresnan and Swann all played in the Test series.

Raina also JD.
Besides, Bresnan didn't play all of the test series, and he wasn't part of the Lanka series. Pietersen got time to rest during the ODIs against India and WI T-20s.
Dont think that line of argument can explain things a lot.
Its another matter that I consider the scheduling of the series right after the England tour problematic.

Good point, forgot about Raina. And big Tim played all but one of the Tests if I remember rightly? Or was it two he played. I don't know! I don't think that 2 weeks rest would be enough time for recuperation from a summer of Test match cricket, and also a huge tour of Aus over the winter for KP. If both sides were strongest obviously India would still be favourites to win but it would be closer. And I think England are more mentally tired that physically, they have reached their zenith. Beating Aus in Aus and then going unbeaten against India all summer and going to Test number 1 so I would imagine that they are struggling to get themselves up for this series, whereas India are desperate to redeem themselves after their stuffing in England.

As for Raina, he can't be tired! He barely spent anytime at the crease in the Test series...

Not just Raina, most others had the same experience, of course other than the wall!.
India certainly looked the more motivated side. But then, they too had mentaly demanding moments. The WC came with as much pressure as possible, playing at home, Sachin's last chance....... Then till last month they had the number ranking to protect at the test level.
Pietersen got more than a month of rest I believe.

Pietersen doesn't make a team, though. He has looked pretty sprightly actually, it is more the bowling unit that is the cause for concern.