India vs England 2nd ODI Debate

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Terrible start for England, with Cook and Kieswetter both falling for 0.

2/2 after 3 overs, very disappointing start after winning the toss, with both batsmen apparently getting out to innocuous deliveries.

msp83 wrote:

Gregers wrote:One man does not lose us a game, but Deadweight got out at completely the wrong time YET again. Had he made 75-100 then we would have been competitive.

Having said that we were awful today

Who top scored for England today??????

Who failed to see us to a competitive score? Who failed to convert a start once again?

Gregers wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gregers wrote:One man does not lose us a game, but Deadweight got out at completely the wrong time YET again. Had he made 75-100 then we would have been competitive.

Having said that we were awful today

Who top scored for England today??????

Who failed to see us to a competitive score? Who failed to convert a start once again?

all of the middle order got starts and failed to push on gregers! not kp's fault this time, all the middle order had 30's and 40's and didnt push on!

Bell for Kieswetter surely

Deadweights job is to get us to a competitive total, he hasn't done that for over 24 months.

Not good enough for a number 4

i think KP showed signs in that knock of getting back to form, and i think he will get better as the series goes on

He has been showing those signs for the past 23 months

Not good enough, quite simply.

Although there are plenty of 4 letter words to describe Deadweight in ODI's as well

I love the way you only pick on KP, despite the rest of the middle-order also getting in and getting out. Had he made 75-80 you'd probably have had a go at him for not scoring a hundred...

Fists of Fury wrote:Pietersen doesn't make a team, though. He has looked pretty sprightly actually, it is more the bowling unit that is the cause for concern.

Even if KP scores a ton, people will find ways to put him down.
If the rest of the batting can't click on, that is KP's problem. If cook gets a duck at the top, that's because he was concerned about the lack of runs from Pietersen. If the bowlers put it all over the place, that is because KP's backup is not quite there. Just terrible!.

Gregers once in a while its fun mate but now it is becoming annoying.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Gregers once in a while its fun mate but now it is becoming annoying.

true, the KP bashing is becoming almost as annoying as the bopara bashing...KP top score today, and he still gets bashed....so he got out after making a start half the side did as well.

Had he made 70 then yes he should have gone on and made 100. But he didnt even make 50 again.

What the rest of you see in him is beyond me, especially in the 50 over format.

Our middle order is nowhere near good enough, never has been in ODI cricket. But the fact remains that when NoHopara and Deadweight were in we could have got ourselves to 270+ had one of them gone on. Deadweight is the senior batsman and hence must take responsibility. How many times in the last 2 years has he got himself in only to play a ridiculous shot and throw away his wicket?

The fact is that when Cook and Craig don't go on and make 50-100 then we will not set a competitive score against a decent bowling attack (which is all Indias is IMO). Imagine our batting line up versus Australia or Pakistan atm. Trott at three doesn't work, Deadweight at 4 doesn't work, NoHopara at 5 doesn't work, Patel is not good enough to be at 7 in international cricket (although he showed how fearsome this Indian attack is....), Borthwick is a bright young talent so avoids criticism from me (the shot he played was inexperience showing but he'll learn) and then Bresnan at 8 cannot be expected to play the role of late order hitter that we need him to be.

Today's performance showed that we have learnt absolutely nothing from our humiliation at the world cup, or anything in the past 15 years of one day cricket. I genuinely hope that we are whitewashed by India in this series now although Flower will probably blame that on Finn/Borthwick/Bairstow(if he plays)/Jade/Meaker(if he plays).

Furthermore, it was evident again today that Deadweight and Swanny are at loggerheads. Swann's comments were totally just (IMO) and hence Deadweight is now even more of a disruptive influence on the team.

Right, now onto our bowling. Bresnan was great as always. Jade is not a 50 over bowler, his variations are being shown up on the subcontinent. Finn bowled okay. Swann's problems are mentioned above. The part timers cannot chip in 10 overs between them.

Kohli and Gambhir played beautifully but then following that we'd have had Raina and Dhoni, then Jadeja and Ashwin. If the Indians were batting first how large would the margin of victory have been.

Its not just picking out a single player, its looking at the faults in the team. At the moment Deadweight is just that and has been for over 2 years in ODI's. How many other players have kept their place for that long without converting starts to 50's and 50's to 100's batting at 4? If he were to bat at 5 or 6 then the problem wouldn't be so large.

In the last 12 months batting at 4:
India have had Kohli/Rohit
Australia have had Clarke/Hussey
South Africa have had ABDV


Point made.

im suprised that Ojha dosent get a game for India, he's a very good bowler in all formats of the game, or mishra in one day cricket..

cricketfan90 wrote:im suprised that Ojha dosent get a game for India, he's a very good bowler in all formats of the game, or mishra in one day cricket..

you've gotta be joking right? ojha is pretty average at best. factor in he's rubbish in the field and can't bat. he hasn't got a lot going for himself. mishra showed in england that he isn't good enough. ashwin is regarded as india's best attacking spinner, and his record pretty much shows this. jadeja is a promising allrounder and he's probably india's best fielder. only other spinner really in with a shot is rahul sharma.

Gregers wrote:Had he made 70 then yes he should have gone on and made 100. But he didnt even make 50 again.

What the rest of you see in him is beyond me, especially in the 50 over format.

Our middle order is nowhere near good enough, never has been in ODI cricket. But the fact remains that when NoHopara and Deadweight were in we could have got ourselves to 270+ had one of them gone on. Deadweight is the senior batsman and hence must take responsibility. How many times in the last 2 years has he got himself in only to play a ridiculous shot and throw away his wicket?

The fact is that when Cook and Craig don't go on and make 50-100 then we will not set a competitive score against a decent bowling attack (which is all Indias is IMO). Imagine our batting line up versus Australia or Pakistan atm. Trott at three doesn't work, Deadweight at 4 doesn't work, NoHopara at 5 doesn't work, Patel is not good enough to be at 7 in international cricket (although he showed how fearsome this Indian attack is....), Borthwick is a bright young talent so avoids criticism from me (the shot he played was inexperience showing but he'll learn) and then Bresnan at 8 cannot be expected to play the role of late order hitter that we need him to be.

Today's performance showed that we have learnt absolutely nothing from our humiliation at the world cup, or anything in the past 15 years of one day cricket. I genuinely hope that we are whitewashed by India in this series now although Flower will probably blame that on Finn/Borthwick/Bairstow(if he plays)/Jade/Meaker(if he plays).

Furthermore, it was evident again today that Deadweight and Swanny are at loggerheads. Swann's comments were totally just (IMO) and hence Deadweight is now even more of a disruptive influence on the team.

Right, now onto our bowling. Bresnan was great as always. Jade is not a 50 over bowler, his variations are being shown up on the subcontinent. Finn bowled okay. Swann's problems are mentioned above. The part timers cannot chip in 10 overs between them.

Kohli and Gambhir played beautifully but then following that we'd have had Raina and Dhoni, then Jadeja and Ashwin. If the Indians were batting first how large would the margin of victory have been.

Its not just picking out a single player, its looking at the faults in the team. At the moment Deadweight is just that and has been for over 2 years in ODI's. How many other players have kept their place for that long without converting starts to 50's and 50's to 100's batting at 4? If he were to bat at 5 or 6 then the problem wouldn't be so large.

In the last 12 months batting at 4:
India have had Kohli/Rohit
Australia have had Clarke/Hussey
South Africa have had ABDV


Point made.

india's attack maybe not be 'fearsome' but in home conditions its excellent.

KP for me has to be in our odi side. He is a class odi player, and is showing signs of form, so he has to be there.

Guys forget, Ind vs Eng.

W.E is all out on 61, in 22 overs in the ODI against Bangladesh.

Wow, jesus that is a new low for the Windies.

Bang boys 30-1 in 8th over.

by the way the pitch is awful lol

WICB and Yes Man captain rock again!!!!!!!!. Absolutely love it!!!. Here's hoping the yes man leds WI to new lows!!!!.

Reasonable response from gregers on KP and the rest this time around, although it is pinched with usual gregers touch.
But a good point made that Pietersen needs to convert starts, and as the most ardent fan of his gregers is terribly disappointed in the man.
Yes, KP hasn't been doing well on the converting front and the consistency one in recent times. But then, he has won ODIs for England, all by his own. He has the power and shots to be successful in the ODI format. His fantastic early ODI record means that he averages 40+ even after averaging in the 20s over the last 2 years.
Andrew Strauss, their best ODI player of recent times, is retired. Ian Bell hasn't cracked the format even after playing ODI cricket for a good 7 years, and he just isn't a power player. People like Buttler have to first achieve greater levels of consistency at the domestic level.
So England, who are struggling to find quality ODI players, has to get KP going. He has got back to his fine touch in tests, and all throughout, he has been doing well in T-20s.
And on a day he top scores with a middle range score, when everyone else who got a start failed to convert, it is seriously unfair to single him out.

Bell has to play for us, and to be honest i think the series has gone