They're A Confidence Player
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They're A Confidence Player
Is this just a nice way of saying that someone is psychologically weak?
Are there any 'confidence players' in the pantheon of sporting greats?
Are there any 'confidence players' in the pantheon of sporting greats?
gelodge- Posts : 297
Join date : 2011-08-28
Location : Wexford
Re: They're A Confidence Player
loads-
tiger woods would be the best example- has only ever won a major when in front final day, never won when behind final day!
tiger woods would be the best example- has only ever won a major when in front final day, never won when behind final day!
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
gelodge wrote:Is this just a nice way of saying that someone is psychologically weak?
Are there any 'confidence players' in the pantheon of sporting greats?
Are you serious?
Every sporting great had that inner confidence but alongside side them are/were equally talented but maybe lacking in self belief, some get past that block ans become sporting greats a relevant example is the current tennis world number:1 Novak Djokovic, always had the skill but had a barrier to knock down
flyhalffactory- Posts : 3297
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: They're A Confidence Player
flyhalffactory wrote:gelodge wrote:Is this just a nice way of saying that someone is psychologically weak?
Are there any 'confidence players' in the pantheon of sporting greats?
Are you serious?
Every sporting great had that inner confidence but alongside side them are/were equally talented but maybe lacking in self belief, some get past that block ans become sporting greats a relevant example is the current tennis world number:1 Novak Djokovic, always had the skill but had a barrier to knock down
I remember Gareth Edwards game in the Second test for the Lions vs the All Blacks in New Zealand in 71.
He was awful. And he was voted the greatest player ever...
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
mystiroakey, I wouldn't say that is the definition of a 'confidence player'. There is a big difference between not coming from behind (strength of competitors have a large part in that as well) and being a player who is prone to not turning up.
The other examples people have given so far are players that may have had a problem at one time (or in Edwards case it would seem only one match, more like a bad day), but overcame it, so ceased to be defined as such.
What greats are there that never conquered that part of their sporting mentality?
The other examples people have given so far are players that may have had a problem at one time (or in Edwards case it would seem only one match, more like a bad day), but overcame it, so ceased to be defined as such.
What greats are there that never conquered that part of their sporting mentality?
gelodge- Posts : 297
Join date : 2011-08-28
Location : Wexford
Re: They're A Confidence Player
geloldge- i would have thought that was the perfect example.
tiger woods allways won a major when he had a lead- he felt confident with the lead(he only lost one major from the lead 14 out of 15!!!).yet never won one without the lead(0 out of you guess- but tiger was allways there or there abouts) At the time tiger was so good at the game- second place was so far behind(measure it like the all blacks against scotland if you will). Tiger was in the final group many times and in cases only one or two shots of the lead- he could never get over the lack of confidence he felt when he wasnt top dog!
I assumed when you mention a confidence player- you are talking about a player that only wins when he is confident.
I think its very hard to measure players in team sports like this, but i suppose we could cite rooney- when he is confident he scores bags of goals, when he isnt he plays awfull.
on the flip side of confidence players we have the likes of luke donald, wilko or messi. They allways put in goodish performances. They dont seem to play any different win or loose, its wether the field is better on the day
tiger woods allways won a major when he had a lead- he felt confident with the lead(he only lost one major from the lead 14 out of 15!!!).yet never won one without the lead(0 out of you guess- but tiger was allways there or there abouts) At the time tiger was so good at the game- second place was so far behind(measure it like the all blacks against scotland if you will). Tiger was in the final group many times and in cases only one or two shots of the lead- he could never get over the lack of confidence he felt when he wasnt top dog!
I assumed when you mention a confidence player- you are talking about a player that only wins when he is confident.
I think its very hard to measure players in team sports like this, but i suppose we could cite rooney- when he is confident he scores bags of goals, when he isnt he plays awfull.
on the flip side of confidence players we have the likes of luke donald, wilko or messi. They allways put in goodish performances. They dont seem to play any different win or loose, its wether the field is better on the day
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
ronnie osullivan would be one that i think we could probally all agree upon.
No one could play better than him at his peak, and if his mind set was right he would outperform anyone- if his mind wasnt then he wouldnt- and offcourse he will be remeberd as a great so he also ticks that box
No one could play better than him at his peak, and if his mind set was right he would outperform anyone- if his mind wasnt then he wouldnt- and offcourse he will be remeberd as a great so he also ticks that box
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
or are you talking about people that dont have confidence when it matters that are rembered as greats.
another snooker player falls to mind if thats your point.
jimmy white
another snooker player falls to mind if thats your point.
jimmy white
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
How often did that happen for Tiger though? Was it principally because another player had a great day and he was having an odd off one? As dominant as Tiger has been, there have always been very good players that were capable of winning if they played at their absolute best. If another player is performing beyond themself, not coming from behind to beat them isn't much of a failing.
When I think of confidence players I think of guys that can be excellent one moment then visbly crumble on other occasions. Surely Tiger was never that inconsistent or faltered that much?
When I think of confidence players I think of guys that can be excellent one moment then visbly crumble on other occasions. Surely Tiger was never that inconsistent or faltered that much?
gelodge- Posts : 297
Join date : 2011-08-28
Location : Wexford
Re: They're A Confidence Player
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head, O'Sullivan would be a perfect example.
gelodge- Posts : 297
Join date : 2011-08-28
Location : Wexford
Re: They're A Confidence Player
gelodge it happened every time thats the point. and yet when he was in the lead he virtually allways won.
the stats do not lie here- even if they didnt to start with - it obviously turned into a mental block- i am not sure how myuch golf you watch, but people that do realise this stat and it is quite confusing, because it really isnt normal.
Jack nicklaus(the only player that can be compared to tiger) won 18 majors, he won 9 from the lead but lkead 18 times, he won 9 from second places. this is a very normal type of scenario, tigers isnt(dont qoute me on exacts but i am very close)
And the truth of it is was at the time if tiger played well no one could beat him. Possibly the only period of golf we have ever seen to be so one sided.
the stats do not lie here- even if they didnt to start with - it obviously turned into a mental block- i am not sure how myuch golf you watch, but people that do realise this stat and it is quite confusing, because it really isnt normal.
Jack nicklaus(the only player that can be compared to tiger) won 18 majors, he won 9 from the lead but lkead 18 times, he won 9 from second places. this is a very normal type of scenario, tigers isnt(dont qoute me on exacts but i am very close)
And the truth of it is was at the time if tiger played well no one could beat him. Possibly the only period of golf we have ever seen to be so one sided.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
I dont think O'Sullivan is a confidence player, hes just an unmotivated one, hes stated several times over the course of his career that hes bored of snooker, but if he ever gets motivation to try and win every tournament he would be very difficult to beat
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
to add abit of defence on your side of the tiger debate- the 'tiger factor' was allways mentioned because of his unusual record. It basically meant that if tiger was in the lead ,the field(approx 70) would crumble, if he wasnt they wouldnt. But there is allways the other side that it was tigers confidence.
IMO in truth it was allways abit of both.
IMO in truth it was allways abit of both.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
IronMike wrote:I dont think O'Sullivan is a confidence player, hes just an unmotivated one, hes stated several times over the course of his career that hes bored of snooker, but if he ever gets motivation to try and win every tournament he would be very difficult to beat
anyone remeber the 147 he made - after potting about 2 reds and 2 blacks he asked the ref if there was a prize for a 147(he knew full well there wasnt)- he cleaned up to the final pink and walked of(or did he come back nonchalantly and pot it)- it caused a massive scene anyway- but your right to an extent- its just that certain people allways have an excuse, be it lack of motivation or confidence i dunno- it almost boils down to the same thing- he is not a well person thats the truth of it, good luck to him being happy thats all i can say- i have blasted him for the things he has said in the past, because i dont think its right as he is such big draw and role model
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
What I meant by "how often" mystiroakey, was how many majors did he lose compared to win when he was in his dominant pomp, and how many times was it due to injury or coming back from one?
I don't know enough about golf, but as you suggested, my suspicion would have been more down 'Tiger factor' road.
In rugby though, I struggle to think of a great that didn't shrug off a 'confidence player' tag if it was ever attributed. Having just watched him, someone like Michalak springs to mind, a cracking player that I love to watch when he's at his best, but he never quite made the very top bracket I'd class as greats.
I don't know enough about golf, but as you suggested, my suspicion would have been more down 'Tiger factor' road.
In rugby though, I struggle to think of a great that didn't shrug off a 'confidence player' tag if it was ever attributed. Having just watched him, someone like Michalak springs to mind, a cracking player that I love to watch when he's at his best, but he never quite made the very top bracket I'd class as greats.
gelodge- Posts : 297
Join date : 2011-08-28
Location : Wexford
Re: They're A Confidence Player
He walked away from it, but it just highlights my point about him, hes bored of snooker and wanted to cause some controversy in a sport that typically has none
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
during tigers peak of success lets say 1997-2008
he won 14 majors- each coming when he lead the final day
he lead 14 majors - didnt loose any from the lead(the one he lost was in 2009 after an injury)
he finished top ten 29 times(15 times when he didnt win and the majority he was in contention)
he played in 46 majors during that spell(2 he dnp in 2008 due to injury) and guess what his worse finsh was 29th!!!
an amazing achevement-46 out of 46 top 29 finishes- unbelivable, 29 top tens out of 46- unbelevable, 14 wins - again unbelivable, ahead final day 14 times and won every time -again unbelivable, never won from behind- very strange.
he won 14 majors- each coming when he lead the final day
he lead 14 majors - didnt loose any from the lead(the one he lost was in 2009 after an injury)
he finished top ten 29 times(15 times when he didnt win and the majority he was in contention)
he played in 46 majors during that spell(2 he dnp in 2008 due to injury) and guess what his worse finsh was 29th!!!
an amazing achevement-46 out of 46 top 29 finishes- unbelivable, 29 top tens out of 46- unbelevable, 14 wins - again unbelivable, ahead final day 14 times and won every time -again unbelivable, never won from behind- very strange.
mystiroakey- Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 47
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Re: They're A Confidence Player
Osullivan.
Sporting brilliance. Have all his televised 147s on my smartphone.
Incredibly talented.
Sporting brilliance. Have all his televised 147s on my smartphone.
Incredibly talented.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
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