This is a victory for the players

Well first of all, let´s pay homage to France. I had posted earlier in the week that such talk of a NZ runaway victory was nonsense. Dusatoir was deservedly man of the match and the French defence was again heroic. We all know that they are capable of playing like this and their form beforehand was irrelevant. They tackled their hearts out there and you could say their tactics late in the second half, when they had possession and were getting over the advantage line (much like NZ in 2007), were misguided. They could´ve got closer to the posts and could´ve gone for a drop goal. Particularly their drive from the lineout, their scrum in the second half, the way they tackled, the hunger they had for the win, the team spirit they showed. This was a performance to be celebrated by France and a clear demonstration that one day their names will deservedly be on the World Cup. I salute you France as you proved to be deserved finalists and deserved champions.

I wasn´t impressed by the AB tactics. Far too conservative and too much ball kicked away. We never really got over the advantage line and put pressure on France out wide. It was territory based rugby and the pressure of the final seemed to get to the players. Weepu had a shocker not only with the boot but general play. We just kicked too much possession away and that played into the hands of France. We looked panicked in the second half. My only consolation is the heart we showed in defence, the tactics to protect the lead after the 70th minute when we had possession and the fortitude to hold on after the setback of the loss of Cruden and the try which was caused by a toe ahead from a French player at the ruck that in other situations could have been blown up for offside.

Reading the comments of the final, it seems that posters were implying Joubert gave the game to the ABs. I don´t have a problem with NZ, as favourites, cast as the villains. In sport, I don´t have a problem with the underdog being the people´s champion. I tend to see the choker tag as a twisted compliment. It implies the game is there for the ABs to lose. When Cruden went off injured and NZ were down to their fourth choice flyhalf, who would´ve predicted Donald scoring effectively the winning points for NZ? This was a World Cup played at home with intense pressure. We played like that. We seemed to play within ourselves. We had chances to break the game open and we didn´t take those half chances. We had lost Carter, we lost Cruden and we seemed to lose structure. Yet we dug deep and found a way to win the game when it looked to be slipping away from us.

This victory, however, is not a victory that belongs to us fans. We AB fans have it too good. Our expectations are so high because our team performs so well. But I´m not happy for me as an AB supporter. I´m relieved. Not for me, to hear the jibes that would have undoubtedly come our way if France had won. But for the players. I am happy for them and the coaching staff that they get to taste success in the World Cup. With Henry reappointed after the 2007 quarter final exit, there were ridiculous comments from so-called AB supporters who wanted Deans as the new coach. There were comments that I hope Australia beat us now. Shame on you for your lack of belief. Shame on those who after the 3N loss thought Australia was going to win the World Cup as well.

I can understand when Carter went out of the tournament that neutral posters started putting their money on SA or Australia or even Wales. Why not take some confidence from losing such a talisman player? I for one questioned some selections of the ABs (no Gear, the rotation of players) but never once did I lose faith in the team. I knew we had the players to be able to win. We proved that last week with a comprehensive victory but I knew that we weren´t finished yet with a final against a team like France.

This victory for this ABs squad is not just a victory for the team. It´s a victory for teams that have gone before them and who have been knocked out by teams better than them on the day. The likes of Cullen and Lomu who have never won a World Cup can take pride in the performance of their fellow ABs today. The ABs were playing for the Christchurch earthquake victims, for Pike River victims, for 4.5 million NZers and those around the world like me. But this victory belongs solely to the players and the coaching staff. They had all the pressure on them and so they deserve all the spoils of victory. I was a nervous wreck throughout the match but at the end I was relieved for the players. For they have given me, an AB supporter, so much to feel grateful for over the years. But today was their moment. My commiserations to the French supporters. You showed that you are a team who deserve respect and we know your grief and distress in these times. But know that you are capable of winning this gold trophy. Know that your team did you proud today. Know that our victory seems all the sweeter because the way you played.

Thank you to the AB players. Soak up this victory for it is one you richly deserve. It doesn´t matter what you did for your fans and your country. It matters what you did for yourselves and the AB legend. ka pai NZ. You have a champion team that has done you proud. Be grateful and humble for what they have given you.

"
This victory for this ABs squad is not just a victory for the team.
It´s a victory for teams that have gone before them and who have been
knocked out by teams better than them on the day."

no i dont think so- speak for yourself

I’m gutted, the French team did us proud today.

Ignore the comments about the refereeing (me included) and just enjoy the moment. Congratulations.

We will win it one day.

A good victory for AB's who were the best team by far at this world cup, but without taking anything away from them, as they deserved the victory, does the reffing match the standard of play because i feel that its abysmal, but as an ex player i can accept poor reffing as long as its equally bad for both teams. What i can't accept is when a ref is only penalising, or being unfair to one side, and that, far more than incompetance is unforgiveable. But that is also not taking anything away from NZ, they overall thoroughly deserved their victory.

nz deserved it- but dont say its a victory for others or the game, its not- only you- enjoy it, dont get all freaky on us kiak

What a load of self indulgent and patronizing dribble!

At no point am I taking anything away from the team, they were the best team in the tournament, and over the last 12 months or so, they had a lot of pressure on them because of this, and deserved pressure. They lost their 10 mid tournament but most teams went out without key players, Matthew Rees (welsh captain) Pocock, Frans Steyn, Moody etc... It's a nothing excuse, and Donald may have been 4th 10 used but he's been Carters main back up for 2 years now!

There are a lot of people who went into this game looking for justice, and suporting NZ, as they deserved the world cup win, and the french have offered nothing and stumbled their way to the final, yet over the course of 80 minutes those people have almost totally U turned and saw the Joubert debacle as another tragedy thats been effecting our game recently! At no point did France receive the same treatment NZ did, and please remember this is coming from NO FRENCH PEOPLE! almost 100% nuetrals, most of whom wanted NZ to win pre game!!!!

The IRB have really let them selves down during this tournament, Samoas, and Tuilagis fines aside, the choice of ref appointment of games, and well i'm not sure who to blame, and although the IRB and NZRFU claim the balls are identically made it's quite clear that if every kicker struggles with it there is something wrong! Then theres the 2 fingers up to Warburton with a 3 week ban and a few other dodgy citings, Lawes was a clumsy drop, not a knee in the back.

Which brings me to how NZ got the WC in the first place, Japan wouldv'e been the clear choice for the good of the game, but within the hissy fits, and envelopes it was decided NZ could have the 2 of the first 7 tournaments!

Regarding todays game, Frances superior scrum and lineout were countered by Joubert, and the NZ pack was left to their own devices at the breakdown! In my view a tournament NZ deserved to win, marred buy a game they should've lost, and were handed on a plate!!!

The whole tournament has left a sour taste in many peoples mouths and the only sufferer has been the game.

I truly feel that there is no better game on the planet than Rugby union, so why am i feeling let down and disappointed by a lot of these top games that are supposed to have top class refs running them. Taking nothing away from the AB's, but the reffing was so bad and one sided that it makes me fall out of love with our wonderful game, because the bottom line is that France were cheated and so were the millions watching today and in previous matches. Poor and dishonourable and i can't get past the unfairness of this final.

However, well done AB's as you have to play to the ref, which you did well!!

english warrior

+1 (000000 I would think)

It seems to me that just about evey referee has been accused of giving the match to certain sides.Wales v SA not referring a hook Penalty to the TMO,
Wales v France the Red Card incident.SA v Australia gave game to Australia.
NZ being given the game today,the implication is that EVERY Ref is incompetent or bent because your team did`nt win.
IF the RWC has become a stage for deliberately throwing games in an attempt to win it.As seems to be the case with France in the pool games especially.
It says little for the Team and Competion concerned and should be investigated by the IRB accordingly.
Also that the implications are NONE of the current crop are fit to officiate them.

iI do gree that the French was very unlucky today. If Joubert had give France several penalties for High tackles then it might have been a different result....But then again IF, IF Weepu had kicked the goals(penalties)then the All Black might have been seen as worthy winners.

I dont think i can remember agame that the All Blacks have one by only 1 point...The way the All Blacks played last week against Australia and the way they played this week, every body would have thought they was 2 different teams.

A good post Kia...however the facts are slightly different. NZ could not break the French defence and on most occassions were repelled with ease. The French defence was immense forcing the Abs to kick.

I do not go along with blaming the ref for the loss for France but I will say that Dusatoir who is a class act as a player and captain in the post match interview was gracious in defeat but he knew that the best team had not won the final.

I don't think anyone can say on the back of the years 05-11 where NZ have been near dominant in the sport that they don't deserve to be officially called the world's best team.

Players like McCaw & Carter are too good to not win a world cup. The global rugby fraternity do raise a smile whenever NZ fall on their faces but this is as much in admiration & a little bit of envy as it is to rivarly and they were well over due for a win.

They were very very lucky today but if France had won I think a lot of people would still think it was slightly unjust... perhaps due to the way France have played in the tournament previously.

Something has to be done about refereeing though. Its got to crazy levels, the ELV laws are so difficult to officiate that refs now have an impossible job.... for a different post I know but I guess its related.

Well Corey Jane was said to have stepped out of touch. France got a lineout in the AB 22. Dusatoir was lying on the ground on the AB side of the ruck and he was allowed to pick up the ball and throw it back to the French side from an offside position. McCaw was lying away from the ruck and got whacked in the back of the head by the French 7. The French try came from a toe hack at a ruck from a player from an offside position. I can think of plenty of calls I wasn´t happy with from Joubert. This idea that it was all one way traffic to the benefit of the ABs is farcical.

I´m not saying today´s victory gives previous ABs a RWC medal as well. I´m just saying the AB collective legend is helped by winning this World Cup. Suggestions that until a World Cup medal is around a player´s neck makes them a true champion is rubbish. There is plenty of rugby played between World Cups and it does matter.

If NZ had lost today and we had complained about the reffing then we would´ve been called sore losers. But the fact is they did win. They somehow dug deep and managed to keep out the French. They were up 5 - 0 at half time and deservedly so. They should´ve had more points if Weepu had been on target. France came back valiantly. But so did England and nobody says England were deserved winners in that game.

Sorry Kia. Your post was very good until you started making things up with regards to the Reffing. That sounds like desperation to ok the ref today...pity..but given the way the Abs shouted blue murder after 07 not surprising..

I havent seen or heard a french person (specifically a player) complain about the ref. Its mostly non French neutral people who are complaining. I wouldnt give the English game as an example as that was all over at half time..

but look you are entitled to enjoy the occassion just dont sully it by bringing up poor examples.

Name one of those things I mentioned a made up example. The French were gracious in defeat. I think I´ve been gracious in victory. I just don´t buy this theory that Joubert engraved the trophy for NZ.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Name one of those things I mentioned a made up example. The French were gracious in defeat. I think I´ve been gracious in victory. I just don´t buy this theory that Joubert engraved the trophy for NZ.

i'm quite astounded at the response on this forum, it's as if Joubert gave NZ a last minute penalty or disallowed a French try

Jane you have a point.
It wasnt Dusatoir it was Bonnaire and he was deemed the tackler, stood up and picked the ball.
Rougerie entered from the gate (something I dont think a NZ player understands) and toe poked the ball (not sure how you think he was offside)..
McCaw was unfortunate like his knee on Parra...but he was (as usual) being slow to get away from the wrong side of the ruck.

RE the ref I think what is getting up most peoples noses is that Joubert only appeared to be reffing one team...he seemed to allow NZ plenty of time to slow down french ball but pinged the french immediately. Missed a couple of high tackles and seemed to be not interested in reffing the game from the 65th minute...i.e didnt reset scrums (not penalise but reset collapsed scrums - on the ABs ball) and take Kainos indiscretion which he ignored...(one of about 5 in the last 15)

RE the misses...well the french missed a couple and a drop goal so that about evens that up...

Also comparing the game to the England comeback is very poor. That game was over at half time...the french were hardly bothered in the second half.

Look the French had their chances but they didnt take them. However they appeared to be the better team on the day...sometimes you dont get what you deserve but I think to most the game was only reffed for one team..that is disappointing.

"Also comparing the game to the England comeback is very poor. That game
was over at half time...the french were hardly bothered in the second
half."

jeas i wouldnt go that far- lol classic post that one- anything england does doesnt count

newbie wrote:
Look the French had their chances but they didnt take them. However they appeared to be the better team on the day...sometimes you dont get what you deserve but I think to most the game was only reffed for one team..that is disappointing.

High tackles aside, Joubert is mostly guilty of allowing the game to flow. in the period from 65 min to about 75, France were on the attack and building multiple phases, people are saying he handed NZ the game essentially because he did not hand France the game by awarding them a penalty. instead he played on and France did nothing special with the ball except just run into black jerseys.

Ok until I get a video replay where I can call specific moments in the game (I don´t think some of your calls are about the same play) I won´t get into a verbal battle with you.

The French were hardly bothered in the second half? As in they didn´t care whether they won or lost?

The ABs and the French had their own chances. The better team on the day is the one that has the most points at the end of the match. Seems like the team you backed didn´t win and you would prefer to see the team that did win as if they were given the match... that is disappointing.

Yeah apologies didnt mean to be dismissive..but France were fairly well in control even at the end...

Fantasitc...valid point..but when the indiscretions (i.e Kaino for one) were not penalised its not a question of whether the French just ran into AB players...possibly one of the reasons they werent getting anywhere was because of indiscretions....

Kia...my only point is that it should be an even playing field. I personally dont think it was nor do the vast majority of people or pundits thst I have heard or talked to in Ireland (where the majority would not be particularly Francophile,,,in fact the exact opposite)....

The feeling is the best team did not win...something similar to 07 maybe only this time the other way around...

The best team is who scores the most points I´m afraid. If a team loses then naturally they feel hard done by. Of course you tend to focus on the things that prevented them from winning. But if the ABs had lost, then you could´ve expected us to point out things we didn´t like.

Much like disagreeing with a referee´s decision, it isn´t going to change things. I see your point, but in the end you have to accept the result.

Of course I accept the result...at the end of the day its a rugby game...pity the majority of NZ'ers didnt feel the same in 07....

The majority is a dangerous generalisation newbie. I was gutted with the loss in 2007 but accepted the defeat. I remember writing my first post in 606v1 congratulating England on their path to the final.

I just don´t like the fact that the victory appears to be taken away from the NZ players because the ref handed them the game. It wasn´t the case in 2007 and it´s not the case now.