Video evidence and analysis of poor reffing in final

First topic message reminder :

Thought this would be of interest. Certain posters are calling for evidence of the poor decisions costing France the game (U know who u are Offwhite spooky person) :-)

Here it is -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1XBqetaCfgo

biltongbek wrote:Rodders, the problem with any game where the two teams share the spoils when it comes to territory and possession, an odd decision here and there can be missed and frgiven.

Yeah Biltong but France had more territory and posession and were superior in nearly every stat but yet the penalty count was 13-7 in the AB's favour.

That's nearly 2-1 in favour of the AB's despite them being under massive pressure for a lot of the game, way more than the odd descision.

roddersm wrote: penalty count was 13-7 in the AB's favour.

That's nearly 2-1 in favour of the AB's despite them being under massive pressure for a lot of the game, way more than the odd descision.

Not sure, I thought the count was 10-7.

Know the breakdown of penalties awarded by each half?

goneagain wrote:

roddersm wrote: penalty count was 13-7 in the AB's favour.

That's nearly 2-1 in favour of the AB's despite them being under massive pressure for a lot of the game, way more than the odd descision.

Not sure, I thought the count was 10-7.

Know the breakdown of penalties awarded by each half?

Penalties were 10-7, and the French won 4 breakdown turnovers to the AB's 3. So it goes to show NZ didn't have it all their own way at the breakdown. It was a free for all, but it went both ways.

There were three free kicks as well to the Abs.
First half penalties were 5 - 2. I think France got only one penalty in the NZ half (the one Yachvilli missed) although I suppose the Trinh-Duc one was as well.

Thing is though with the amount of posession in the second half that France had and territory then it would have been closer.

A quick look at the match tracker on the world cup website is interesting.

NZ received 10 penalties overall, 6 in the first half and 4 in the second. Of the 4, one was the Donald kick, and 2 were in the last minute. The other on the 60 minute mark.

France received 7 in total. 3 in the first half and 4 in the second.

Can't remember the exact count, but has been published. From memory it favours the AB's in the 1st half and the French in the second.

Sorry I was sure it said 13-7 on ESPN. I'll re check when I get the chance.

Regardless, as the directives say the referee should favour the attacking side at the breakdown the penalty count should have been in France's favour.

Joubert didn't award a penalty to NZ between the 60th and 79th minutes. If you discount (I know, I know!) the two after the 79th minute when the French were really desperate, then the penalty count looks about what you'd expect in such a tight game.

goneagain wrote:Sorry Risky, the last 3 lines of my post were actually referring to the whole match, and the later viewings of it.

The video on rugbydump.com is pretty clear for the kick.

Fair enough - having seen the clip on Rugby Dump I now agree it went over - it is the first time seen it done that clearly - so I stand corrected

Now 100% sure it did not miss

France had 2 penalty shot's at goal and a drop goal attempt, but missed all 3. They had their chances and didn't take them. Joubert policed the breakdown the same for both sides.

The key stat is that the AB's had to make 111 tackles and missed only 9.

Fairplay RS

The Kaino decision where he gave a kncok and scrum, is laughable though truely!

AFewTooManyKnocks wrote:
The key stat is that the AB's had to make 111 tackles and missed only 9.

I think you'll find France's percentage tackle complete count is pretty similar and they made more clean breaks and metres with the ball.

The stats will show that the set piece was pretty even but the reality is many of the AB's throws were to Thorn at the front and not straight as Harinordique was disrupting the NZ lineout.

Joubert was not refereeing both sides the same. France had more penalites and free kicks against them and there were at least 8 clear penalties against the AB's that Joubert ignored: 3 high tackles, 2 obstructions, 1 Read offside at the ruck and at least 2 were the ABs were clearly off their feet at the ruck and thats just off the top of my head.

Contrast against France were anytime there was a hint off a penalty Joubert had his arm out.

JDandfries, I agree, but then it is up to interpretation and as I said before, not nearly as one eyed as many believe, at least Joubert did police the match, more than what others did.

roddersm wrote:

AFewTooManyKnocks wrote:
The key stat is that the AB's had to make 111 tackles and missed only 9.

I think you'll find France's percentage tackle complete count is pretty similar and they made more clean breaks and metres with the ball.

The stats will show that the set piece was pretty even but the reality is many of the AB's throws were to Thorn at the front and not straight as Harinordique was disrupting the NZ lineout.

Joubert was not refereeing both sides the same. France had more penalites and free kicks against them and there were at least 8 clear penalties against the AB's that Joubert ignored: 3 high tackles, 2 obstructions, 1 Read offside at the ruck and at least 2 were the ABs were clearly off their feet at the ruck and thats just off the top of my head.

Contrast against France were anytime there was a hint off a penalty Joubert had his arm out.

Can you give me exact times and descriptions, I watched the game and went through some possible penalisable events in slow motion.

I remember the one high tackle by Woodcock, which was an arm that half missed. Can't recall the other two high tackles. Obstructions is open to interpretation, depending which team you support. As for the rucks, I paid special attention to rucks where the play was affected and the only one i can recall now was the ruck where France kicked the ball through and scored a try from, at the time I thought it looked offsie, but on slow motion it looked debatable and there for perhaps why craig Joubert allowed play to go on.

roddersm wrote:

AFewTooManyKnocks wrote:
The key stat is that the AB's had to make 111 tackles and missed only 9.

I think you'll find France's percentage tackle complete count is pretty similar and they made more clean breaks and metres with the ball.

The stats will show that the set piece was pretty even but the reality is many of the AB's throws were to Thorn at the front and not straight as Harinordique was disrupting the NZ lineout.

Joubert was not refereeing both sides the same. France had more penalites and free kicks against them and there were at least 8 clear penalties against the AB's that Joubert ignored: 3 high tackles, 2 obstructions, 1 Read offside at the ruck and at least 2 were the ABs were clearly off their feet at the ruck and thats just off the top of my head.

Contrast against France were anytime there was a hint off a penalty Joubert had his arm out.

Most of that is just not true though is it?

According to the RWC website matchtracker.
Franced missed 11/87 to the ABs 9/111
Clean breaks 2 each

Can't comment on metres, you could be correct. But I seem to recall one break by Trinh-Duc to be a substantial distance, which could make all the diference.

Line outs, well just your opinion from the TV screen. hardly conclusive.

As for missed penalties/wrong decisions off the top of the head; Rougerie ruck infringement directly leading to the try, French also off their feet at rucks. McCaw gouged. Read kneed. At least 2 mauls in the second half (one in French 22), going to ground and French scrum awarded.
It's not really difficult to do this sort of nonsense.

And as for 'against France were anytime there was a hint off a penalty'. As I pointed out earlier, after the Donald penalty (43'?) NZ received only one other penalty at 60', until the 2 which were awarded after 79' when the French were absolutely desperate.

OK Biltong I can't remember them all:

There was an obstruction in the 1st half when Harinordique goes for a high ball and at least 2 AB's jump into him with no attempt to catch the ball.

The Reid offside and ruck infringements are in the clip.

I'll have to rewatch the footage to give more info on the other alledged infringements.

biltongbek wrote: the only one i can recall now was the ruck where France kicked the ball through and scored a try from, at the time I thought it looked offsie, but on slow motion it looked debatable and there for perhaps why craig Joubert allowed play to go on.

I have looked quite closely at that too.

Either he was offside as he came round the ruck to kick the ball, if it was out.
Or he was part of the ruck and was entitled to come through it, but he hadn't joined through the gate, nor joined the ruck appropriately.

Either way a penalty. And that non decision definitely affected the scoreboard.

biltongbek wrote:JDandfries, I agree, but then it is up to interpretation and as I said before, not nearly as one eyed as many believe, at least Joubert did police the match, more than what others did.

not sure how else he could have interpeted it, of course he got lucky that Kaino threw the ball forwards when he 'realsied' where he was!

The way i think he interpreted it was that both players were of their feet, and hence the scrum.

First of all Bilton he gave the scrum after the incident in question at another breakdown.

I think he interpreted it as follows....oh heck Kaino is contesting the ball in a ruck and now he is off his feet holding on and has thrown the ball forwards...maybe if I concentrate on the corner flag and hope nobody else notices it it will be ok...thats a nice looking corner flag....oops Dimitri and the whole french team have noticed...whistle a little bit...whats happening now? Ok its not really but I better give France a scrum to make up for it...phew got away with that one....

Dod, I think you have convinced me.

After all it likely he would have ill feelings towards the French referee who cost his team a semi final spot and if he was going to be biased would be so toward the team who's referee did it.


Oh, wait no, the referee was a New Zealander.