Did Rougerie gouge McCaw?

Can't recall seeing anything myself although McCaw was acting a little strange near the end of the game. Anything in it?


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10761510

Edit - KRD. Note that while the article imples Dusatoir gouged, evidence posted down-thread suggests that if anyone gouged it was Rougerie so I've amended the title of the thread

Looks like things have progressed since I was last on and the implied version of Dusautoir was actually Rougerie.....unless there was another incident!?!?

Here's the clip anyway so you can make up your own mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc

What the sport doesn't need, more thuggery and controversy, really hope its not true . . . would make a farce of the award.

really hope not.

then again this is the same newspaper that suggested that bonnaire gouged a kiwi after the pool game so not sure about their credibility.

there is similar stories in french newspapers about mermoz being allegedly punched by weepu. I tend not to buy into most of those stories.

Mr Quinn said it wasn't clear in the video whether Dusautoir was responsible for the eye-gouging, but said the French captain was "right there"

That is enough is it?

What a disgusting and unsportsmanlike article. No evidence to attach this to TD's name but of course now that he is linked this will taint his well deserved award.

Perhaps Quinn should take his lead from McCaw and consider the impact on TD of such a poorly researched piece before he opens his gob

Think McCaw's lack of paying a compliment to the French in his speech says it all - a dignified silence on a despicable act if true.

I'm sure it will come out from one of the angles

It gets better, apparently he offered no 'concern or consolation' to McCaw!

Unbelievable, maybe the game should have been abandoned

Who is this guy. A kiwi commentator. Have you heard them? Make nigel starmer smith seem like a guru of the game.

Just your typical kiwi rubbish article covering up the poor ref and poor abs game. A bit like the 07 qf where it was clearly the ref. I suppose waiting for a gracious response would be too much to ask. Look what happens when you are lost in the south pacific with billions of sheep for company and no one around.

watch 'Nothing to Declare', the Aussies have the right idea.

Gatts wrote:It gets better, apparently he offered no 'concern or consolation' to McCaw!

Unbelievable, maybe the game should have been abandoned

You must condone gouging then? Clearly you supported Burger's innocence in 2009?

Clearly you support unsubstantiated claims by dubious individuals.

chewed_mintie wrote:

Gatts wrote:It gets better, apparently he offered no 'concern or consolation' to McCaw!

Unbelievable, maybe the game should have been abandoned

You must condone gouging then? Clearly you supported Burger's innocence in 2009?

Yep I do mintie, obviously my contempt for a poorly researched article that alleges the IRB player of the year was 'near' an alleged gouging on a player who has said diddly to anyone about gouging indicates that i condone gouging.

I think you just proved we evolved from the apes!

Oh and by the way, i was approximately 15 feet away from the Burger gouge in 2009. Saw it plain as day.

Quinn dubious? Haha get a life mate, he is NZ's answer to Bill McLaren.

If true, it's despicable. Not sure why you'd want to defend it really. I've been eye gouged, it's f uking horrible being dragged by your eye sockets

erm mintie old thing it's an article by the NZ herald, that fine newspaper which has spent the whole tournament bashing the French, honestly some of the headlines they came up with in the run up to the final made the sun look tame. Nothing to see here, except that the media is making NZ out to be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat. Despicable really, can't they just be happy they won the world cup?

Don't think this will taint TD at all, most people will just laugh it off. Or maybe they're running the story to try and turn people's attention away from McCaw kneeing Parra in the face?

chewed_mintie wrote:Quinn dubious? Haha get a life mate, he is NZ's answer to Bill McLaren.

If true, it's despicable. Not sure why you'd want to defend it really. I've been eye gouged, it's f uking horrible being dragged by your eye sockets

RTFM

Where is there any EVIDENCE that TD gouged RM?

Speculation and hearsay and therefore inadmissible in a IRB hearing

So NZ Herald writer gets his sources from "within the NZ camp", but according to French newspaper L'Equipe's sources no NZ player referred to this incident at all (article in French here - last paragraph http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/breves2011/20111024_225553_la-derniere-polemique.html). Think I can make up my own mind on which source seems most reliable.

Having said that, I don't in any way shape or form condone eye-gouging, and if these claims do turn out to be true I will be extremely disappointed with TD and expect a large ban. Don't hold your breath for it though...

There is currently more evidence that Joubert made some crooked calls during the game. In fact there is clear video evidence. Maybe the herald should write about that instead.

This is quite possibly the most speculative accusation of foul play I've ever heard.

It amounts to a commentator claiming McCaw was gouged (video of the supposed incident here, not the reaction of someone who has just been gouged in my book) and that Dusautoir is probably the perpetrator because he was in the vague vicinity at the time and has won an award which the commentator clearly doesn't want him to have.

Laughably ridiculous!

gelodge wrote:This is quite possibly the most speculative accusation of foul play I've ever heard.

It amounts to a commentator claiming McCaw was gouged (video of the supposed incident here, not the reaction of someone who has just been gouged in my book) and that Dusautoir is probably the perpetrator because he was in the vague vicinity at the time and has won an award which the commentator clearly doesn't want him to have.

Laughably ridiculous!

My Dad was in Dallas on the day Kennedy was shot

gulp

It's after the citing period do nothing will happen anyway.

I haven't said it was Dusutoir, the article says he was the closest French player to McCaw at the time, it doesnt say it was him.

As I have said, there are too many cameras and angles for this not to be resolved one way or another. Let me be clear, Dusutoir deserves his award but ask yourself this, wasn't it strange that the teams didn't shake hands or embrace after the match?

hey hey more of the same- whens it gonna end, wheres the clip anyone got the proof

Gatts wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:Quinn dubious? Haha get a life mate, he is NZ's answer to Bill McLaren.

If true, it's despicable. Not sure why you'd want to defend it really. I've been eye gouged, it's f uking horrible being dragged by your eye sockets

RTFM

Where is there any EVIDENCE that TD gouged RM?

Speculation and hearsay and therefore inadmissible in a IRB hearing

Does anybody even bother looking at the evidence that THEY post anymore. That video does more to exhonerate Dusatoir and the French players in ruck than provide any evidence of guilt? So far as I can make out Dusatoir is clearly focused on trying to get his hands on the ball and he has both of them wrapped around it at the end (so when he was supposed to have gouged McCaw is anybodies guess). Rougerie is similarly obsessed with trying to disrupt the ruck and get over the ball and attempts to lift McCaw out of it at one point. But there is absolutely no evidence (so far as I can make out... and I'm open to correction) of attempted cynical gouging! So where are people getting this from?

DOD wrote:There is currently more evidence that Joubert made some crooked calls during the game. In fact there is clear video evidence. Maybe the herald should write about that instead.

or about McCaw kneeing Parra in the face (NOTE: do not think this was intentional). Imagine if McCaw had been kneed in the face what the reaction in NZ would have been. Oh wait...

"I'm not accusing Dusautoir of being involved, I'm saying he is very close to the incident and offered no concern or consolation to McCaw. Therefore, it needs to be investigated. The guy has just been awarded a prestigious award."

Is this Quinn guy seriously muddying Dusautoir's name based on that reasoning. The guy is clearly a joke.

If video evidence shows A PLAYER gouged then THAT PLAYER shoudl be dealt with to the full letter of the law, even criminal law in my book.
To mention the IRB POTY in this context based on nothing but vicinity (it was a ruck ffs where do we expect a flanker to be!) is frankly, literary gouging of a world class player and smacks of libel. Disgusted either way.

radelven wrote:"I'm not accusing Dusautoir of being involved, I'm saying he is very close to the incident and offered no concern or consolation to McCaw. Therefore, it needs to be investigated. The guy has just been awarded a prestigious award."

Is this Quinn guy seriously muddying Dusautoir's name based on that reasoning. The guy is clearly a joke.

if he wasn't a joke he is now

Gatts wrote:If video evidence shows A PLAYER gouged then THAT PLAYER shoudl be dealt with to the full letter of the law, even criminal law in my book.
To mention the IRB POTY in this context based on nothing but vicinity (it was a ruck ffs where do we expect a flanker to be!) is frankly, literary gouging of a world class player and smacks of libel. Disgusted either way.

I think gouging is up there with the most serious offence you can commit. So if there was a sniff of it being true from the video footage I would be on McCaw's side no matter what the occasion... but in this case I agree with you Gatts. It's such a damning allegation and the video footage seems to prove the opposite. I hope there will be action taken the other way if it proves to be complete bunk.

why would he make it up?

they just won the thing.

it seems abit odd to me that someone would make stuff up at this point after a wc win!

mystiroakey wrote:why would he make it up?

they just won the thing.

it seems abit odd to me that someone would make stuff up at this point after a wc win!

Yeah agreed... but as we have it so far... the allegation appears to have come from a NZ commentator, not McCaw. I have not seen any direct quotes from McCaw?

McCaw hasn't said anything though mystiroakey, in fact the only person claiming that a gouge took place is the commentator.

Translation of accusation..

the great one and his team in what should have been a procession and walkover in crowning a great team are outplayed and outgunned by a bunch of no hopers. Whats worse is that the great one was made to look ordinary by his opposing captain and was lucky the ref was being helpful. Plus this covers up the churlish attitude by the great ones team after winning. The French have more class (note the jersey issue) in one marc lievremont uttering (and that says it all) than a bunch of hicks living on two rocks in the pacific

I agree with whoever said "look at McCaw's reaction". When a player is gouged they tend to be a lot more vocal afterwards. There's also absolutely no evidence in that video, apart from the fact that McCaw stays down for a bit (which could mean anything from him not being fully fit so struggling, to him having taken a bit of a shoeing, to him doing it deliberately to take time out of the game).

if this mccaw chaarcter or anyone has made this up after a wc win then its as bad as the action of gougeing itself.

mystiroakey wrote:if this mccaw chaarcter or anyone has made this up after a wc win then its as bad as the action of gougeing itself.

don't blame McCaw, he hasn't said anything. Blame the NZ Herald, they were making these allegations (unfounded) after the pool match too... It's pretty disgusting TBH the ay they've acted throughout the WC...

that paper has been a right shocker hasnt it. worse than anything we even get on thesse shores.

Mad For chelsea
In fairness the Herald are reporting on what Keith Quinn is saying,its not the actual newspaper making the allegation,even though they shouldnt have made references to the wounds on John Eales face after the 1999 final in another part of the newspaper. The herald has many different rugby writers...hence many different opinions.

Mintie
I understand you're opinion of Keith Quinn, yes he has been the doyen of NZ Rugby Television commentary, But this is the not the first time recently where he has maybe been a bit more vocal than he needed to be. After the Clancy/TMO saga he made some bizarre comments and I know he was reminded that the year is 2011 and not 1911.

A number of All Black faces did not look very impressed when Dusautoir was announced winner of the player of the year last night....

Bottom line is that IF there was any supporting evidence, then I get the fealing that this thread would be going down quite a different track.

Mention of 1999 is interesting. Just last week Kronfeld was commenting on the eye gouging that possibly went on in a tongue in cheek manner but did seem to be something in it...

For any Kiwis that are interested, The Sky footage of this incident is going to be shown tonight on "Reunion", sky Sports one. at 8.30.

It isnt Desautoir.

Theyre talking to mccaw shortly on our news about this...

chewed_mintie wrote:Quinn dubious? Haha get a life mate, he is NZ's answer to Bill McLaren.

If true, it's despicable. Not sure why you'd want to defend it really. I've been eye gouged, it's f uking horrible being dragged by your eye sockets

Sorry, mintie, but there is no answer to Bill McLaren!

From one news mccaw appears to get poked in the eye then dragged out. Hes holding his eyes and both he and reade are complaining to ref.
Mccaw seemed to play it down as he does and said got poked in the eye or something but didnt care when the final whistle went.

Read said off the back of the truck that the captain was saying he was getting eyegouged.
The player identified was the big centre rougerie(?) who was also involved in an incident yesterday out in public as well.
Apparently the deadline for lodging an incident is up shortly.

So no evidence that TD involved and no allegation of gouging from the victim?

What did Rougerie do in public?

Hmmmm all sounds a bit vague to me, surely all the players have an interest in alerting the citing commissioner to any fould play of this nature?

Was it a gouge T'man? Or could it have been accidental?

I've had all sorts of unsavoury things pushed in my face at the bottom of a ruck, most unpleasant.

Dunno. Thats what the reporter said. There has been a spitting at a photographer report and french players getting turned away at a bar but nothing that i can see worth worrying about.
I just hope nothings in it. Getting sick of cheap pot shots at mccaw all the time. Whats he done to deserve it?
Is cooper now experiencing karma? Na thats a bit rough but wish some would take their profession a little more 'professionally' and not act like spoilt brats who have had their lollipops taken.

The French are no angels, but at the moment the evidence for gouging / cheap-shots is about as strong as the evidence for he Donald penalty missing the posts.

As for spitting at the photographer, you don't know the circumstances. He may have deserved it.

Taylorman wrote:Dunno. Thats what the reporter said. There has been a spitting at a photographer report and french players getting turned away at a bar but nothing that i can see worth worrying about.
I just hope nothings in it. Getting sick of cheap pot shots at mccaw all the time. Whats he done to deserve it?Is cooper now experiencing karma? Na thats a bit rough but wish some would take their profession a little more 'professionally' and not act like spoilt brats who have had their lollipops taken.

He's just too good at his job T'man, he gets everyone riled and frustrated and that's when they start to lose their cool, there's absolutely no excuse for it but in a passionate sport, sometimes that passion gets the better of them - which is why we have a citing commission.

It all sounds as though the WC is going to end in a bit of disharmony, World in Union? Apparently not.

Yeah, more like rugby world in tatters.

I think it's something we all have to face up to, like some of the idiot minority in the England camp.

The higher profile the game gets, the more copy stories like this will sell.

It would never have happened in my day, largely because aside from the players and the ref, nobody gave a flying feck!

You can't have one without the other I suppose.

The mccaw thing isnt a biggie. Just a matter of clearing it up.

The photographer thing does look as though they peed the french off but not a big deal. The cup is touring here and its got the whole country turning out. Its been the best of moods here for a very long time
even henrys been getting into the swing.

Heck didnt mean to paint a bad picture. Its been a fantastic couple of days since the result. The whole country is in good spirits.

From all accounts its been run exceptionally well and depending who you are the rugbys generally been great. Visitors have loved it and the whole country- right down to the small towns have had a ball.

Taylorman wrote:Dunno. Thats what the reporter said. There has been a spitting at a photographer report and french players getting turned away at a bar but nothing that i can see worth worrying about.
I just hope nothings in it. Getting sick of cheap pot shots at mccaw all the time. Whats he done to deserve it?
Is cooper now experiencing karma? Na thats a bit rough but wish some would take their profession a little more 'professionally' and not act like spoilt brats who have had their lollipops taken.

Maybe Ritchie copping it is also part of this karma you speak of.

Taylorman wrote:The mccaw thing isnt a biggie. Just a matter of clearing it up.

The photographer thing does look as though they peed the french off but not a big deal. The cup is touring here and its got the whole country turning out. Its been the best of moods here for a very long time
even henrys been getting into the swing.

Heck didnt mean to paint a bad picture. Its been a fantastic couple of days since the result. The whole country is in good spirits.

From all accounts its been run exceptionally well and depending who you are the rugbys generally been great. Visitors have loved it and the whole country- right down to the small towns have had a ball.

Well that makes me feel better already, enjoy your days in the sunshine mon ami.

Gatts wrote:

My Dad was in Dallas on the day Kennedy was shot

gulp

My Dad was in Dallas on the day JR was shot

Double gulp!