Did Rougerie gouge McCaw?

First topic message reminder :

Can't recall seeing anything myself although McCaw was acting a little strange near the end of the game. Anything in it?


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10761510

Edit - KRD. Note that while the article imples Dusatoir gouged, evidence posted down-thread suggests that if anyone gouged it was Rougerie so I've amended the title of the thread

Looks like things have progressed since I was last on and the implied version of Dusautoir was actually Rougerie.....unless there was another incident!?!?

Here's the clip anyway so you can make up your own mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc

"let's not be so naive about this, Ritchie McCaw, as good a player as he is, is probably THE biggest cheat in the game."

All flankers are cheats, Richie is just really good at it

JDandfries wrote:That is about as clear as mud, seriously are you kidding?

I'm sorry but if you WATCH the video from which this still is derived, you can see where the fingers were in relation to the eyes. How can you argue against this being anything other than eye gouging?

Again ----------> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc

sorry mintie, but there's nothing clear in that picture, I can't even make out McCaw's face. The video though IMO shows Rougerie raking his fingers down McCaw's face, and that, regardless of whether there was actually any gougeing involved, is disgusting.

Mintie I didnt say they resorted to gouging...it looks as if there is some contact with the face cant say myself if its the eye as it is not clear.

Comment was only that the ref was so bad that McCaw was allowed to get into illegal positions...

JDandfries wrote:

let's not be so naive about this, Ritchie McCaw, as good a player as he is, is probably THE biggest cheat in the game.

...

There's a difference between testing the limits at the breakdown ("cheating"), and foul play. McCaw's got a decade long record of playing without even being accused of foul play. You're trying to use the existence of apples to prove that there's oranges present.

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Kiwireddevil wrote:

Boyne wrote:The kiwis know the French were blatantly robbed and the whole world saw Mc Caw run his knee into Parra.

They need something to whinge about as to not feel as if they just robbed a bank.

I hope they enjoy the hollow victory and that a ref some day has the balls to stand up to Mc Caws cheating.

Disgraceful.

Wow, tell us how you really feel.

There's an awful lot of chips on shoulders in evidence this week.

Kiwi -let me be a voice of reason (well my opinion at least)

Knee into head - I think it was clumsey and from the footage can not say it looks like he meant it - he may have done of course, but can not imply it

Eye gouging - video looks like here was contact and again it could be intentional - not 100% convinced either way, as not clear enough. Would expect a citing (unless out of window) and expect a ban - how long depends on other videos being seen

Ref - was poor and did favour NZ massivley - think the pressure got to him, which is a shame - as it killed off the French chances - would them scored anything, who know - just a shame that it is such a talking point

Haka - well the IRB are fools, and I think we can all agree. The fact they protect the Haka so much is likely to get people uptight and call for it to be banned. It is IMO an extra benefit for the teams that do it, so can be a slight advantage. Good to have it, but need to level the playing field

Winners - NZ lucky on the day, as they really did choke again, but got away with it. Proberbly the best over the whole tournament, so proberbly deserved -

French - they have certainly convinced everyone they are totally bizare and quite mad - two tea spoons away from a consistent team - but a fun one to have around

Hmm nope, not saying you're wrong, but it's too fuzzy for me to make it out clearly, sorry. I can just about make out Rougerie's hand/fingers, but not much else.

chewed_mintie wrote:Ok, so out of sheer frustration France resorted to eye gouging?

Do you have a problem with reading aswell as watching things?

Quade Cooper got cited for this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9RYZStDdDI

Not sure what the difference is with regards to the Parra incident.

JDandfries wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:Ok, so out of sheer frustration France resorted to eye gouging?

Do you have a problem with reading aswell as watching things?

No, but you have a problem with McCaw. Is it jealousy?

DOD wrote:Quade Cooper got cited for this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9RYZStDdDI

Not sure what the difference is with regards to the Parra incident.

Think Lawes got a similar punishment against Argentina, agiain not muc difference

chewed_mintie wrote:

JDandfries wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:Ok, so out of sheer frustration France resorted to eye gouging?

Do you have a problem with reading aswell as watching things?

No, but you have a problem with McCaw. Is it jealousy?

I guess my problem with McCaw is similar, if not identical to many other rugby fans.

He is a cheat, plain and simple, and gets away with it constantly!

DOD wrote:Quade Cooper got cited for this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9RYZStDdDI

Not sure what the difference is with regards to the Parra incident.

Cooper didn´t get sanctioned for that. I don´t have a problem with that. Stupid incident but handbag stuff really.

The difference is obvious. Cooper was from a static position and McCaw´s head is still. McCaw is entering the ruck at pace and Parra lifts his head at the wrong moment.

After getting punched first...

So Pocock is a cheat as well JDandfries. Or do Australia need to win more games until he is called a cheat?

Kiwireddevil wrote:

JDandfries wrote:

let's not be so naive about this, Ritchie McCaw, as good a player as he is, is probably THE biggest cheat in the game.

...

There's a difference between testing the limits at the breakdown ("cheating"), and foul play. McCaw's got a decade long record of playing without even being accused of foul play. You're trying to use the existence of apples to prove that there's oranges present.

Have to agree. Mccaw haters to this extent have truly lost the plot and an ability to be objective in these situations is long gone.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

DOD wrote:Quade Cooper got cited for this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9RYZStDdDI

Not sure what the difference is with regards to the Parra incident.

Cooper didn´t get sanctioned for that. I don´t have a problem with that. Stupid incident but handbag stuff really.

The difference is obvious. Cooper was from a static position and McCaw´s head is still. McCaw is entering the ruck at pace and Parra lifts his head at the wrong moment.

thats what i tried to say kia but fries interpreted that as "so it was parras fault for lifting his head...?". aah no. Didnt say that... No idea

Taylorman wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

JDandfries wrote:

let's not be so naive about this, Ritchie McCaw, as good a player as he is, is probably THE biggest cheat in the game.

...

There's a difference between testing the limits at the breakdown ("cheating"), and foul play. McCaw's got a decade long record of playing without even being accused of foul play. You're trying to use the existence of apples to prove that there's oranges present.

Have to agree. Mccaw haters to this extent have truly lost the plot and an ability to be objective in these situations is long gone.

This is just getting ridiculous. I mean I was peed at Joubert's performance too... and McCaw certainly ain't my favourite player... but that's what 7's are there for. They are supposed to live on the edge of the law in order to steal the 50/50 breakdowns. And bad 7's cost teams as many games from penalties as good 7's win.

If McCaw were Irish he would be a feckin legend. This is just barmy double standards.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:So Pocock is a cheat as well JDandfries. Or do Australia need to win more games until he is called a cheat?

Pocock is a good player, like McCaw, havent seen enough of him yet to pass judgement, but McCaw has been cheating for 10 years at least, and it seems to just be accepted by the IRB, and others as Ok, because of who he is!

I may be slightly singling him out because of teh way the thread has gone, but the breakdown needs looking at ASAP, or it will become impossible to referee, if it isnt already

Riskysports wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Boyne wrote:The kiwis know the French were blatantly robbed and the whole world saw Mc Caw run his knee into Parra.

They need something to whinge about as to not feel as if they just robbed a bank.

I hope they enjoy the hollow victory and that a ref some day has the balls to stand up to Mc Caws cheating.

Disgraceful.

Wow, tell us how you really feel.

There's an awful lot of chips on shoulders in evidence this week.

Kiwi -let me be a voice of reason (well my opinion at least)

Knee into head - I think it was clumsey and from the footage can not say it looks like he meant it - he may have done of course, but can not imply it

Eye gouging - video looks like here was contact and again it could be intentional - not 100% convinced either way, as not clear enough. Would expect a citing (unless out of window) and expect a ban - how long depends on other videos being seen

Ref - was poor and did favour NZ massivley - think the pressure got to him, which is a shame - as it killed off the French chances - would them scored anything, who know - just a shame that it is such a talking point

Haka - well the IRB are fools, and I think we can all agree. The fact they protect the Haka so much is likely to get people uptight and call for it to be banned. It is IMO an extra benefit for the teams that do it, so can be a slight advantage. Good to have it, but need to level the playing field

Winners - NZ lucky on the day, as they really did choke again, but got away with it. Proberbly the best over the whole tournament, so proberbly deserved -

French - they have certainly convinced everyone they are totally bizare and quite mad - two tea spoons away from a consistent team - but a fun one to have around

Some fair points Risky.

Knee into head - I agree. Could have been cited and imo worth a hearing. (though given the Quade Cooper 3N example the commisioners seem to be ignoring knees to the head but even so ...)

Eye gouging - agree

Ref - I've already said I'm not commenting on the reffing until I get a chance to watch the game again, sober. Funnily enough in a room full of kiwis and with some beer on board my objectivity was somewhat impaired. But at least I admit it when my objectivity is impaired

Haka - Agree with you re the IRB. I don't think the haka is as big a factor in game as some people make out.

Winners - a win's a win. And as non-NZers on old 606 repeatedly pointed out in 2007, if you're good enough you will win

French - agree

SGT Pooley-

'I thought McCaw was acting a little strangely towards the end of the game'

Why ? was he playing within the laws of the game, and not permanently camped offside!!

JDandfries wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:

JDandfries wrote:

chewed_mintie wrote:Ok, so out of sheer frustration France resorted to eye gouging?

Do you have a problem with reading aswell as watching things?

No, but you have a problem with McCaw. Is it jealousy?

I guess my problem with McCaw is similar, if not identical to many other rugby fans.

He is a cheat, plain and simple, and gets away with it constantly!

So hes had 3 irb player of the year where no ones had more than one. 6 Nominations for the same. Selected by a wealth of the worlds elite players. Is now world cup winning champion and captain who gas just passed his 100th test. He played the last 3 tests yet couldnt train because of injury.

Hes a role model to every nz child playing the game and in all his efforts never accepts personal praise, always putting the efforts of his team first.

Towards the last minute of the greatest crowning moment of his career some fremch idiot puts an attempt in to blind him.

And all you can say fries is hes a cheat.

Must be one of the worst examples of poor posting ive seen.

Are you really that bitter?

Of course Neil Back´s s**t was pure white and didn´t smell...

When a team finds a way to win on a regular basis, I guess it´s natural to look for injustice. NZ win and they´re still chokers. The IRB and the referees are in the NZRFU´s pocket. If they hadn´t poached all of their good players, NZ would be just above Romania in the rankings.

Whatever makes you sleep well at night.

McCaw is a great player. No doubt he is a cheating basterd but if you have a 7 who isn't then you won't do well. That is all

If McCaw decides he wants a taste of HEC and NH rugby every single one of us will be doing the 'ohpleaseohpleaseohplease' dance and sacrificing goats hoping it's our team he signs for.

Kia- Glad to see that you agree and what do you mean above Romania? Ha, ha,ha!!!

I wouldn't want him at Leinster.

Munster need a 7 so, welcome aboard Richie!

I think you have missed the point - COMPLETELY!

I hold McCaw in high regard as a player, but he is a hibitual flouter of the laws and suffers very little punishment, yet he is painted as whiter than white - of course he is not the only one.

What I am getting at, is that there is no proof that any French player has gouged him, despite the writer evidenced in the OP blaming as many players as he could.

McCaw spent most of the game offside, lying the wrongside of the ball, holding on to tacklers, and although not condoning it, I could understand if a French players took the law into his own hands, as wrong as it may be.

I have nothing to be bitter about, I am Scottish, and certainly have no aligence to France, but France were by far the better side on Sunday, and despite getting incredibly lucky, the NZ press seem to be focusing on a 'possible' incident, and ignoring conveniently another .

Taylorman if you are dumb enough to believe that Rougerie tried to make McCaw blind then you must surely believe that McCaw tried to brain damage parra? Parra was knocked out McCaws eyes weren't even bloodshot which they would have been if a finger entered them.

Such a ridiculous comment.

leinsterbaby wrote:I wouldn't want him at Leinster.

Leinster would want him at Leinster... which I think is much more to the point.

Like I said, whatever makes up for your own inadequacies...

JD, it's strange that we can see the same thing and see it entirely differently.

First up, I agree it's poor quality. But after watching it again I'm actually more convinced it was a vigorous bit of eye contact.

From what I can make out, McCaws head moves back quite quickly once contact is made. I'm not saying 'gouge' but I definitely think pressure is applied to the eye area and there's a yanking motion.

I'll have a look again tonight and see if it was on the TV broadcast, if it was and I'm wrong I'll change my mind, but until then I have to say I'm firmly in the "rougerie should have been cited" camp.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:I wouldn't want him at Leinster.

Leinster would want him at Leinster... which I think is much more to the point.

No they wouldn't. Leinster never buy players with huge reputations they bring players in and mould them into great players. CJ van de linde being an exception who turned out to be a crock. Rocky wasn't on astronomical wages.

McCaw would demand a big sum he has a screw loose in his foot and we already have a very strong backrow including European player of the year who can play 7. It would be a bad move and Leinster would only do it for a short term contract to fill a hole.

Kia- Lighten up and get in on the joke, which is that the AB's courtesy of the ref have bagged the biggest prize in World Rugby, so to be honest, with Joubert's impact on the game, all us non-AB fans have had our noses rubbed in it.

You lot win, however unfairly, and take home the de-valued bacon. So well done on a World cup win, or, deep, deep down is it just a little bit Hollow ?

leinsterbaby wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:I wouldn't want him at Leinster.

Leinster would want him at Leinster... which I think is much more to the point.

No they wouldn't. Leinster never buy players with huge reputations they bring players in and mould them into great players. CJ van de linde being an exception who turned out to be a crock. Rocky wasn't on astronomical wages.

McCaw would demand a big sum he has a screw loose in his foot and we already have a very strong backrow including European player of the year who can play 7. It would be a bad move and Leinster would only do it for a short term contract to fill a hole.

Get a sense of humour Leinsterbaby... sheesh.

leinsterbaby wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:I wouldn't want him at Leinster.

Leinster would want him at Leinster... which I think is much more to the point.

No they wouldn't. Leinster never buy players with huge reputations they bring players in and mould them into great players. CJ van de linde being an exception who turned out to be a crock. Rocky wasn't on astronomical wages.

McCaw would demand a big sum he has a screw loose in his foot and we already have a very strong backrow including European player of the year who can play 7. It would be a bad move and Leinster would only do it for a short term contract to fill a hole.

A fair point - with Leinster's current squad they would get better value for buck in areas other than the loosies. Jennings is a pretty good 7 at HEC level, and O'Brien is a superb back row (albeit a better 6/8 than 7). With Heaslip also in the mix and some decent backups as well, it's a very formidable back row, one of the strongest in club rugby globally.

Ah, but if you don't sign the big hitters, chances are your biggest rival will...

You obviously still havnt seen the coverage we had here because theres no ambiguity.
The images are clear.
But then if you truly believe that mccaw punched parra on his way to crashing into dusattoir while also deliberately kneeing him as well, all the while you have not seen that parra has unwittingly put his head in mccaws path then i guess you wont see the eye gouge or the fresh cuts and blood red eyes of mccaw on the ground immediately after.

Id suggest waiting for the full footage.

Tell me when was the last time Leinster tried to sign a big name player? Why would you sign McCaw when we have good young Irish players in that position. What would be the point. It would be stupid. Leinster were until recently operating at a loss. The only clubs that could afford him are French clubs. Are you sure you support Leinster?

Leinster do not sign expensive mercenaries we develop our own.

Yes I'm sure. Thank you for asking.

Are you sure you're a rugby fan?

It´s a moot point in any event as Richie McCaw is signed to the NZRFU. As is Carter with a year off to learn French if he wants.

The AB so-called mercenaries seem to be choosing Japan to fill up their pension funds this year.

Agree with you greybeard : it really looks like there is some sort of contact and on this basis Rougerie should be cited and punished if it's intentionnal.

the way it is brought up by some kiwi media is a bit pathetic. almost as winning is not enough: they also need to put mud on france at any cost to ensure they get all the praises? is it payback time or did I miss something here? unless it's just NZ wanting to stay in the news a bit longer? please enlighten me.

at the end it will not do any good to the ABs in terms of reputation. havent seen a french media getting all excited and vindicative when Mermoz complained that he received a punch from mermoz. they merely mentionned it.

ps: in another post, I actually implied that the french players should have taken the law in their own hands but didnt go as far a saying that gouging was ok.

Taylorman wrote:So hes had 3 irb player of the year where no ones had more than one. 6 Nominations for the same. Selected by a wealth of the worlds elite players. Is now world cup winning champion and captain who gas just passed his 100th test. He played the last 3 tests yet couldnt train because of injury.

Hes a role model to every nz child playing the game and in all his efforts never accepts personal praise, always putting the efforts of his team first.

Towards the last minute of the greatest crowning moment of his career some fremch idiot puts an attempt in to blind him.

+1 Agree with all of that, which is why I remain disappointed (and believe that he should have) thanked the French for a tough game(as Dusautoir should have reciprocated in kind)

There is clear footage online now. Rougeries finger was in McCaws eye area then McCaw points it out to the ref. All match controversies are posted on rugbydump.com.

Gees just watched that and it is terrible for sure.

Yup, pretty clear - my (generous) guess as to his motive is that he is trying to pull McCaw out of the ruck, but he gets his finger in his eye and that's an absolute no-no (oddly I don't think there's any headbutt-like contact tho)

Apparently the IRB have stated that the citation period has passed without complaint:

http://www.planet-rugby.co.za/story/0,25883,3818_7265614,00.html


Not sure why they would need a complaint before investigating this though. Useless fecks.

Looked at this and it is the one where McCaw comes in from the side and causes Doussain to knock on (should have been a penalty to France). In real time (i.e one second) McCaw is on the wrong side (surprise) and Rougerie goes in and looks to grab McCaw and then pulls him out of the way. In that second his first grab was on mccaws face to me its intentional in that Rougerie wants to clear the player out and grabs the face given the speed in real time its unintentional that he grabs him around the face...6 week ban.