Did Rougerie gouge McCaw?

by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Oct 2011, 9:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Can't recall seeing anything myself although McCaw was acting a little strange near the end of the game. Anything in it?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10761510

Edit - KRD. Note that while the article imples Dusatoir gouged, evidence posted down-thread suggests that if anyone gouged it was Rougerie so I've amended the title of the thread

Looks like things have progressed since I was last on and the implied version of Dusautoir was actually Rougerie.....unless there was another incident!?!?

Here's the clip anyway so you can make up your own mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc

by Taylorman Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:52 am

Seen the footage. Rougeries in trouble id say.
Raked his fingers right across mccaws eyes and face. Cuts around his eyes consistent with it.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:58 am

That most definitely is an eye gouge. he reaches through the legs of another player at the bottom of ths ruck,no where near the ball, with fingers clawed he scrapes them bak across the eyes of McCaw.the fingers had ti ride up to go over the bridge of the nose.then across the second eye.

There is no way McCaw would be saying well played to the opposition and thanks for the game.

There was no complaint laid by the All Blacks as it was thought that it would take the shine off their victory.

by blackcanelion Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:03 am

It was Rougerie. Sky sports just posted the footage on the weekly rugby roundup show Reunion. pretty clear cut. I think we are outside the citing window so nothing will happen.

by Taylorman Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:07 am

Probably lucky to have left the country by now.
Would be a few kiwis wanting to meet the centre after seeing that footage id say.
No wonder mccaw never applauded them. One bad apple..

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:09 am

Taylorman wrote:Probably lucky to have left the country by now.
Would be a few kiwis wanting to meet the centre after seeing that footage id say.
No wonder mccaw never applauded them. One bad apple..

Not sure that gives McCaw an excuse not to applaud the other 21 players who had given of their all?

by Cari Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:12 am

I don't remember seeing anything, I'll have to check out any footage when I get home. Shame if it did happen during the final.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:14 am

As long as
i think its a pretty good excuse...

by aucklandlaurie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:15 am

Cari
The shots from this particular camera were not transmitted...

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:19 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: As long as
i think its a pretty good excuse...

laurie, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one

by Taylorman Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:20 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Probably lucky to have left the country by now.
Would be a few kiwis wanting to meet the centre after seeing that footage id say.
No wonder mccaw never applauded them. One bad apple..
Not sure that gives McCaw an excuse not to applaud the other 21 players who had given of their all?

geez..yeah he should get up and thank the team- one of whom had just tried to rake his eyes out.
Shame on you mccaw.
Some people take sone pleasing alright.

by **rodders** Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:23 am

The plot thickens....I didn't see anything at the time (I was too busy shouting at that crook Joubert maybe Wink

!).

I did think it was odd and unsporting that McCaw didn't mentioned France his interview though.

by aucklandlaurie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:30 am

As long as
I suppose you would prefer it if McCaw had said to the French team here I am please all have a go at ripping my eyes out. Would that make you happy?????

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:38 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: As long as
I suppose you would prefer it if McCaw had said to the French team here I am please all have a go at ripping my eyes out. Would that make you happy?????

Laughable, laurie, and not worthy. Rougerie should be cited and if found guilty, then banned for a long, long time. The actions of one player don't excuse bad sportsmanship to the rest of the players who had nothing to do with the incident

by kiwi4ever Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:42 am

hmm after seeing that photoage I want to go back in time and stop myself drunkenly hug french supporters telling them it's their turn next.

Suppose the fans shouldn't cop it but the French rugby team is held in such high regard here (just not by some of our moron media), kinda like the only NH team that is seen as a threat to any tri nations team on any given day. (But they do have a habit of this practice)

If we can train them to stop eye gouging any chance, you want to swap them for the Argies?

by english warrior Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:44 am

Gouging is a disgrace to Rugby, but hold on its Mccaw, lets not be TOO hasty, after all it is unsubstantiated, and by Keith Quinn, so its a storm in a teacup.

by Taylorman Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:48 am

Warrior.. Aslongas.
Obviously you havnt seen the footage we have.
Aslongas...once you gave seen it reconfirm your stance on his unsportsmanship because only an idiot would hold that view after seeing it.

by blackcanelion Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:49 am

english warrior wrote:Gouging is a disgrace to Rugby, but hold on its Mccaw, lets not be TOO hasty, after all it is unsubstantiated, and by Keith Quinn, so its a storm in a teacup.

No the video evidence is out. It's conclusive. Rougerie is the culpret however.

by **Biltong** Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:51 am

Well it is too late for a citing now anyway.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:52 am

Taylorman wrote:Warrior.. Aslongas.
Obviously you havnt seen the footage we have.
Aslongas...once you gave seen it reconfirm your stance on his unsportsmanship because only an idiot would hold that view after seeing it.

Taylorman, I haven't seen the footage, but if it's true, I'd be delighted to see the book thrown at Rougerie. But I don't hold with the one bad apple theory, sorry, so call me an 'idiot' if you like

by goneagain Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:53 am

youtube

/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hneJ8Ws8Yuc

by english warrior Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:56 am

Taylorman - MacCaw, couldn't lie straight in bed, so anything connected with that disgrace is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I'd have thought that the ref did your team enough favours on Sunday, for you to count your lucky stars and not make any waves, but no.

France were robbed on Sunday by the ref and all you (and other Kiwi's) can focus on is an Alleged incident between 2 players, one of whom is loathed outside of NZ. Grow up!!!

by aucklandlaurie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:59 am

Ass long as
You obviously are a fan of eye gouging. and because its McCaw its an even better.
The guy was in no position to defend himself. its gutless and people that think they are tough by doing this sort of thing usually do have psychosis issues.

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:01 am

English warrior, it´s no secret you don´t like McCaw. I have no problem with that. But don´t let your loathing of a player cloud your judgement here. Gouging has no place in the game. Serious injury can arise from that.

On the weekend, Simoncelli died in the Malaysia GP. Imagine if a player were blinded in a rugby game. Even if it´s a player you despise. Pull your head in son.

by JDandfries Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:02 am

I imagine that if he had been gouged McCaw himself would have instantly issued a red card to the offender

by JDandfries Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:03 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Ass long as
You obviously are a fan of eye gouging. and because its McCaw its an even better.
The guy was in no position to defend himself. its gutless and people that think they are tough by doing this sort of thing usually do have psychosis issues.

Morgan Parra was in no position to defend himself when McCaw 'accidently' censored

kneed him in the face!

by ME-109 Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:04 am

It really is a pity that Rougerie has done that....

It now gives the all blacks and their apologists an excuse to gloss over Jouberts reffing of the game and that they really should have lost.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:04 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Ass long as
You obviously are a fan of eye gouging. and because its McCaw its an even better.
The guy was in no position to defend himself. its gutless and people that think they are tough by doing this sort of thing usually do have psychosis issues.

Laurie, I think you are losing the plot, I'm afraid. I am totally opposed to eye gouging. Let me remind you of the views I've expressed above:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I haven't seen the footage, but if it's true, I'd be delighted to see the book thrown at Rougerie

and

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Rougerie should be cited and if found guilty, then banned for a long, long time

So pls keep your petty name calling out of this debate

by kiwi4ever Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:07 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Warrior.. Aslongas.
Obviously you havnt seen the footage we have.
Aslongas...once you gave seen it reconfirm your stance on his unsportsmanship because only an idiot would hold that view after seeing it.
Taylorman, I haven't seen the footage, but if it's true, I'd be delighted to see the book thrown at Rougerie. But I don't hold with the one bad apple theory, sorry, so call me an 'idiot' if you like

Unfair on the others who gave it their all but, this is not the first by a long shot with the french.

This is just very unfair on what should be Dusautoir time for Quinn to come along and wreak it with bs.
Hopefully the media here just leaves it alone. McCaw in videos holding up the cup will hurt Rougerie for more than a ban will last.

by Taylorman Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:09 am

english warrior wrote:Taylorman - MacCaw, couldn't lie straight in bed, so anything connected with that disgrace is to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I'd have thought that the ref did your team enough favours on Sunday, for you to count your lucky stars and not make any waves, but no.

France were robbed on Sunday by the ref and all you (and other Kiwi's) can focus on is an Alleged incident between 2 players, one of whom is loathed outside of NZ. Grow up!!!

Whatever. Play the tape. green man of envys in the room. Man your jealously just blinds you to common sense.
Kiwi. You cant leave this alone. This is as serious an eye gouge ive seen.
Rougerie will be taken to account somehow for this. This has nothing to do with quinn. He merely raised the fact that it happened.

by english warrior Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:14 am

Look, McCaw usually directs the refs how to officiate the game and normally tells them off if they miss something, so why (as another poster said) didn't he get the player sent off, if this incident truly occurred?

I'll tell you why, because the AB's know that on Sunday, courtesy of the ref, they got out of Jail, and as such they are trying to claim the position of victim. Well it won't work, especiallly if McCaw's the recipient!!

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:17 am

EW, enough of the demented frothing at the mouth. And your last post borders on slander.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:19 am

english warrior wrote:France were robbed on Sunday by the ref and all you (and other Kiwi's) can focus on is an Alleged incident between 2 players, one of whom is loathed outside of NZ. Grow up!!!

I'm impressed that you've managed to ask all rugby fans outside New Zealand what they think of Richie McCaw. That must have taken you ages.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:19 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:EW, enough of the demented frothing at the mouth. And your last post borders on slander.

And laurie's above doesn't?

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:20 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:EW, enough of the demented frothing at the mouth. And your last post borders on slander.

No it wasn't, don't be silly.

It was written down, so it's libel Whistle

Anyway, after looking at that clip, yup, definite 'contact with the eye-area' and quite vigorously so. I can't believe there was no citing TBH.

Having said that Quinn has accused the wrong player, and that's not on either. Rougerie's actions cannot be used to paint his team mate in a bad light.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:21 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:EW, enough of the demented frothing at the mouth. And your last post borders on slander.
And laurie's above doesn't?

No, Laurie's borders on personal abuse, and will be edited

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:21 am

greybeard wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:EW, enough of the demented frothing at the mouth. And your last post borders on slander.

No it wasn't, don't be silly.

It was written down, so it's libel

Anyway, after looking at that clip, yup, definite 'contact with the eye-area' and quite vigorously so. I can't believe there was no citing TBH.

+1

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:22 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:EW, enough of the demented frothing at the mouth. And your last post borders on slander.
And laurie's above doesn't?

No, Laurie's borders on personal abuse, and will be edited

Couldn't give a toss about the personal abuse, its being accused of something that you didn't say that sticks in the craw

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:23 am

The McCraw?

by Guest Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:26 am

Your comments astound english warrior, truly incredulous that you seem to want to sweep the incident under the carpet. It is coming across that you are condoning the blatant eye gouge, because it was on MCCaw. Has the rugby fraternity come to this? A sad day that some, and it's fair to say, NH posters, are blowing this off as a non event and that McCaw somehow deserves this cowardly attempt to rip his eyes out.

by **Biltong** Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:27 am

Yeah, warrior, generalising when handing out derogatory remarks about players is usually a personal opinion.

Many posters don't like McCaw because of the perception that he cheats.

Cheating in spoorts is.
"Sports are governed by both customs and explicit rules regarding acts which are permitted and forbidden at the event and away from it. Forbidden acts frequently include performance-enhancing drug taking (known as "doping"), using equipment that does not conform to the rules or altering the condition of equipment during play, and deliberate harassment or injury to competitors."

Having 16 players on the field is cheating.
Faking blood is cheating.

Playing as far as a referee allows you to, is not cheating, it is taking advantage of a situation in gameplay and leaving the responsibility of what is permissible up to the referee.

Cheating is really just incompetent refereeing.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:30 am

EBOP wrote:Your comments astound english warrior, truly incredulous that you seem to want to sweep the incident under the carpet. It is coming across that you are condoning the blatant eye gouge, because it was on MCCaw. Has the rugby fraternity come to this? A sad day that some, and it's fair to say, NH posters, are blowing this off as a non event and that McCaw somehow deserves this cowardly attempt to rip his eyes out.

EBOP, I don' think that's true at all. Apart from warrior, I haven't seen anyone "blow off" this incident, and I doubt that you'll find many rugby fans anywhere, whether in the NH or SH, that would condone this cowardly behaviour. No player is deserving of being on the end of a cheap shot like this, whether it's McCaw or anyone else

by disneychilly Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:35 am

Agree with Biltong. If you know the laws better than the ref, and communicate really well with him, then you have an advantage. It's almost part of the game itself. The ref chats with both teams beforehand anyway, so any concerns would be aired. Playing to the ref's interpretations is part of the game now I'm afraid. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting this to stop and we need consistency across the board. I have never seen as many games in a Cup affected by refereeing so significantly.

I remember a kid in England I think it was being blinded after having his eyes gouged. Was terrible to watch. Just wanted to ask English Keyboard Warrior, if he was coming in from the side all day do you think he merited being blinded? Sound like you're implying that.

by Taylorman Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:36 am

I think the abs didnt want it to ruin the occasion.
Its typical of mccaw and gh and co not wanting to cry foul.
2007 Ab fans went nuts over barnes.
Mccaw and co. wanted no part of the 'crying'

Pure class. Something others fail to comprehend. They set standards- personal or otherwise- that others dream of.
Thats why theyre where they are.
Bleat on all you want...

Nite all.

by GunsGerms Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:40 am

McCaw will always be a target when referees allow him come in from the side, lie on the other side of the ruck, handle the ball on the ground etc. It's a disgrace what he gets away with. Is it the first time a player has taken the law into their own hands against McCaw? Nope!

I don't feel sorry for him, he also put a player out of the game by kneeing him in the head. We will never know if it was intentional but we all know the standard kiwi tactic is to deny everything anyway. I doubt McCaw was concerned about parra. Complete baby not thanking France, probably should have thanked Joubert too.

Also the author of the article is a disgrace and clearly a clown to implicate Dusatoir without evidence.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:42 am

Taylorman wrote:I think the abs didnt want it to ruin the occasion.
Its typical of mccaw and gh and co not wanting to cry foul.
2007 Ab fans went nuts over barnes.
Mccaw and co. wanted no part of the 'crying'

Pure class. Something others fail to comprehend. They set standards- personal or otherwise- that others dream of.
Thats why theyre where they are.
Bleat on all you want...

Nite all.

I understand RM & GH's sentiment, but I sincerely wish they'd cried foul in this instance cos we need to get the gougers out of the game. Equally, I would have liked to see RM thank the French team (ex-Rougerie) for a tough game. There's no bleating going on here - RM is pure class, one of the greatest players ever imo, none of that is in question

by Mad for Chelsea Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:43 am

Hmmmm have just seen the "new" footage. It's awful, truly awful. While at times I have a strong dislike for McCaw (always coupled with a huge admiration that he somehow gets away with it time after time), and I wouldn't be averse to allowing rucking back in and him getting a good shoeing from time to time to "encourage" him to move out of the way a little quicker, eye-gougeing is one of the most despicable and cowardly acts in rugby and should be very strongly punished.

Rougerie should get the book thrown at him, and a lengthy ban (20+ weeks is a minimum), and I guess I may even owe the NZ Herald an apology of sorts, as without them this may not have been brought up at all. Disappointed they involved Dusautoir's name though, as he was completely blameless, clearly.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:43 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Taylorman wrote:I think the abs didnt want it to ruin the occasion.
Its typical of mccaw and gh and co not wanting to cry foul.
2007 Ab fans went nuts over barnes.
Mccaw and co. wanted no part of the 'crying'

Pure class. Something others fail to comprehend. They set standards- personal or otherwise- that others dream of.
Thats why theyre where they are.
Bleat on all you want...

Nite all.
I understand RM & GH's sentiment, but I sincerely wish they'd cried foul in this instance cos we need to get the gougers out of the game. Equally, I would have liked to see RM thank the French team (ex-Rougerie) for a tough game. There's no bleating going on here - RM is pure class, one of the greatest players ever imo, none of that is in question

+1

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:44 am

There is a major difference between being a target for a rucking and attempted-blinding. Gouging should have no place in our game, and if the iRB really want to remove it from the game they must ensure that something as arbitrary as the citing window should not apply to such an act.

I can't believe France are in trouble for advancing on the Haka, but Rougerie is in the clear. There's something wrong there. Very wrong.

by english warrior Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:44 am

Kiwiredevil- What do you mean Borders!! Ha,ha,ha Cool

by Mad for Chelsea Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:45 am

greybeard wrote:There is a major difference between being a target for a rucking and attempted-blinding. Gouging should have no place in our game, and if the iRB really want to remove it from the game they must ensure that something as arbitrary as the citing window should not apply to such an act.

I can't believe France are in trouble for advancing on the Haka, but Rougerie is in the clear. There's something wrong there. Very wrong.

spot on

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