India vs England, 5th ODI Debate

First topic message reminder :

So the final ODI is about to start shortly.
Changes for both sides. India have opted for Manoj Tiwary in place of the out of form Parthiv Patel. That should mean Gambhir will open, at last.
Graeme Swann is back for England, but the not so happy news is that Kevin Pietersen is out injured, their by opening up a place for Ian Bell.
England have won the toss, and they have opted to chase.
Will India complete the whitewash? Will England manage to salvage something from this series?
Lets debate.

nice shot from Kieswetter there, giving himself some room and hitting Vinay Kumar over mid-off for six, lovely strike.

That's what he brings that is different to this side. How many other English batsmen actively hit sixes in the first few overs? Nobody, really.

Fists of Fury wrote:Sehwag did really well...king pair. He doesn't have the temperament when the ball is moving around.

Zaheer would have helped but 1 man doesn't swing a series when so many of our batsmen were in form.

Solid start from England here *mockers alert*

sehwag wasn't fit....he was blind. he has scored runs everywhere.
we are talking about a fit sehwag, zaheer and fit Gambhir.

anyway good luck to eng and their defense of the #1 slot when they play pak and lanka later this year and early next.
it's not about getting there...but retaining it

Sehwag's stats:

in England averages 27 with one hundred and one fifty from 10 iinnings
in New Zealand averages 20 from nine innings and has yet to pass fifty
in SA averages 25 with one hundred and one fifty from 15 innings

not what I'd call "has scored runs everywhere"

A guy on BBC makes a great point:

Kieswetter has the fourth best average and the best strike rate of any English batsmen in the series, how come he is suddenly public enemy number one? What about Cook, Bopara, Bairstow – all failures.

Ashwin on and straight away there's a huge shout for LBW as Kieswetter shapes to sweep. Very good decision by Bowden that, hit him about an inch outside off stump.

Watch the spin!... Glad to see it doesn't only happen to us...

end of PP1 and England have made a very good start at 62-0

India got thrashed soundly in England, Indian cricket will have to just accept that if path from here should be upwards. There were major questions regarding our batting, bowling, and kind of preparation needed before a big series.
Some corrective actions are already in place, looking for people ho can bowl fast is a case in point.
Anyways, India's performance in this ODI series, regardless of some flimsy excuses such as scheduling that have been put forward by English press and supporters, have posed similar questions for England, at least in the ODI format for now.

a few tight overs from the Indian spinners, gaining them a measure of control.

odd this, Kieswetter seems to have gone right into his shell. Normally a good player of spin. Better that, down the wicket and carving Jadeja past extra cover for four

India shouldn't take the bowling powerplay right away. Should try and put some more pressure on these 2 with some more spin before it is taken.

Kieswetter gets to fifty, very nice . Now go on, make it a big one!

50 for kieswetter, we are playing well here.

50 for Kieswetter, well played.

He and Cook matching each other shot for shot here.

Why have cricinfo got Meaker and Aaron down as 'rmf'. I'd suggest that 90mph is more than medium fast!!

England 120/0 after 19, Cookie's reached fifty too

Cook bowled, Aaron gets one to nip back and keep a bit low and it hits Cook's off stump. England skipper furious with himself, but him and Kieswetter have laid a very solid platform here.

Cook gone. How many times are we going to get castled by a ball that keeps low? Unlucky, but well played.

odd that. Aaron's first ball to Trott (which nearly flew over Dhoni for five wides) is clocked at 52 mph

and now Kieswetter gone, playing for turn that wasn't there. Nice innings too, but India have a window of opportunity now. Ian Bell, over to you...

Kieswetter lbw to Jadeja for 63...the wheels about to come off?

This is where we may miss KP...

Good knock from Kies though, which should silence a few doubters at least.

so much for Ian Bell. England in danger of collapsing here

Bell goes for 2. Not unsurprising, hasn't played cricket for a heck of a long time.

England in trouble.

oh dear oh dear oh dear

Trott gone, the wheels are off.Clusters of wickets costing us again, as they have done all series.

Got to love Ben Dirs commentary...England falling apart like a badly packed kebab.

daft shot from Trott that, driving airily nowhere near the pitch. Very unlike him too... India man sausage-a-hoop all of a sudden, but the good thing for England is they have plenty of time, these two can play themselves in and hopefully build a good partnership.

Bopara and Bairstow riding to the rescue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Afternoon chaps

Hmmm looks like Bopara may have got away with a slight tickle there down the leg side. Trouble is, with keepers constantly going up for anything there in the hope the umpire won't give the wide umps are probably not tempted to make those decisions.

Bairstow becomes the latest batsman to throw his wicket away needlessly, what on earth was he doing? brainless from England, they don't NEED to take these chances yet. Stay in, build a partnership, and then accelerate...

Bairstow gone. This kid isn't ready for international cricket, either.

Dhoni brings on Tiwary given the ball is turning, but a wide ball is driven confidently for four by Patel. Oooooh Bopara nearly run out with some very lazy running but he JUST grounds his bat in time. Not sure about that experiment from Dhoni...

unbelievably daft cricket from England, they've thrown this one away, just shows what pressure can do to you.

making Tiwary and Raina look like Warne and Murali out there

from 129-0 to 156-7 as Bresnan becomes the latest batsman to throw his wicket away, I give up...

England's problem against spin is they don't use their feet. By that I don't mean they should be down the track every ball, but they're rarely to the pitch of the ball, so it's all hands. Patel playing Tiwary is a prime example of this.

A collapse that only an England team could engineer. Desperately bad.

The end of this horrific, pointless series can't come quick enough!

Agreed FoF.

All Cook and Kieswetter's good work undone by stupid, careless and cavalier shots. Why do so many players insist on batting like its a powerplay, or the last 5 overs, halfway through an innings?

Absolutely pathetic!

Patel gone, at least he got a decent delivery. The end is nigh.

Just making sure I get the maths right......Is that 7 wickets lost for 28 runs?

Right now I'd say Bairstow isn't yet ready for international cricket. Bopara I think has at last seen the end of his international career. Bell shouldn't be picked in ODIs again either. desperately missing Moggs (all series) and KP (today), our two best players of spin.

Ashwin gets Meaker (why was he batting ahead of Finn) to a pretty dodgy LBW decision, think the umpire wants his tea...

all over, England lose 10 for 47, pretty unacceptable really. Tour done, thank god for that...

Meaker is utterly clueless with the bat.

Anyway, let's get the first plane out of there and wipe it from our memories. A tour that should never have happened, proved nothing to anyone (except for our lack of strength in depth in the ODI department), and was quite simply a money making exercise.

Bring back Test cricket, much more skill (and we're good at that, too!!)

the trouble is, England do have some serious problems they need to address in the ODI format, but this tour was always going to be a hiding to nothing. It's clear the England players need a break, thankfully they've got one now, and hopefully can fully recharge their batteries before the winter tours.

Worst England ODI performance for years, and with it becoming even more valuable to the sport (for TV audiences) that has to change at some point.

Dire, Dreadful, Dismal. What a joke today

India have done the perfect act of restoring their self belief through a resounding whitewash. They've whitewashed England fair and square. 4 out of the 5 wins were absolute thumpings, and on the only occasion when England managed to put up a good show with the bat, India overcame that and won.
Ajinkya Rahane has continued to show he belongs, and is going to be a significant component of India's future.
Gautam Gambhir got starts in all but one match, and does look his usual confident self.
Virat Kohli continues to put his best foot forward, and a test recall should be close.
Suresh Raina continues to dazzle and frustrate with his stroke play.
Ravindra Jadeja bowled well consistently throughout the series, and whenever called upon, got important runs at 7.
R Ashwin has given no reason for the selectors to regret their call to drop Harbhajan Singh, and has shown he does deserve a test chance ahead of Harbhajan now.
Praveen Kumar often got early wickets, and bowled with control during powerplaies.
R Vinay Kumar has had a decent series, and showed he is a decent replacement option.
Varun Aaron hasn't disappointed with regard to his pace, the fact that all the 4 wickets he picked up so far are bowled is exciting indeed.
Umesh Yadav too, has shown promiss with his pace.
Manoj Tiwary has done just enough to be a strong contenter in the larger set of players.
Parthiv Patel did well in patches, but without converting those starts into something substantial, it is not going to be easy.
One man really stood out. He scored runs in plenty, he scored them really quickly. Its been ages since England bowlers managed to get him out. He took the catches and stumpings that came his way. Mahendra Singh Dhoni was more instrumental than anyone else in getting his team back on track after the terrible English summer, and in the course of that revival, Dhoni's team managed to pay back a part of all that they got in England, with lots of interest.
Now that pride has been restored, there should be focus on addressing some of the larger structural issues that afflicted India in England

England:

Positives:
Finn bowled really well at times without any luck. He's clearly bulked up a bit, and will be pushing to regain his test place shortly. How ridiculously good is England's back-up test bowling?
Meaker looks like he might have something special.
Kieswetter looked at home for me at the top of the order. Needs to convert a few more starts.

Negatives:
England still don't actually have a clue about how to play one-day cricket. The gameplans are all wrong, too many dot balls in the middle overs, no idea how to play the powerplays when batting or bowling. The balance of the team is wrong, Patel isn't a good enough 5th bowler.
Death bowling: England overcomplicate matters.
Bresnan, Swann looked incredibly jaded.
Bairstow looked a bit like a rabbit in the headlights. He is talented but needs more time.
The fielding crumbled under pressure.
Bopara simply doesn't have what it takes at this level, the odd good innings aside.
Patel's fitness and fielding need more improving.
Dernbach needs to go away and work on the basics for a bit.

There are probably others.

For India, I agree with most of what msp has said above.
Rahane I have said for a while has a better technique than Mukund, and is a better bet even in tests.
Kohli is a far better batsman than Raina.
Ashwin impressed me, not sure he'll have the same impact in tests but he deserves a chance.
Jadeja proved me wrong, humble pie time.
Aaron looks like a good'un. Less convinced about Yadav.

Less convincing:
Manoj Tiwary looked honestly rubbish to me. Sorry.
Parthiv Patel isn't good enough at this level.
Vinay Kumar? I'm not convinced, I think top ODI teams will get after him.