Anyone else feel a bit down about rugby this week?

Is it just me or does anyone feel a little disillusioned with international rugby this week? I hugely enjoyed most of the world cup, and thought a good number of teams arrived in great shape, played good rugby and there were some thrilling contests throughout the tournament – right up until the very end.

However, despite the highs, the whole thing seems to have left a slightly bitter aftertaste. We’ve had numerous reffing controversies and inconsistencies in disciplinary action, there were hugely unfair rest periods for 2nd tier teams, and now in the wake of the final we’ve been left with conspiracy theories, “that kick”, more total nonsense about “disrespecting the Haka”… and gouging!

Despite the fact that most people agree NZ have been by far the best team of the last four years and were well overdue a WC win, there also seems to be a growing swell in feeling that the powers that be at the IRB had long decided that the All Blacks simply had to win this World Cup and no one would stop them (Paddy O’Brien seems to quickly be morphing into Emperor Palpatine in many people’s eyes). I’m not sure how much I buy into this (though I love a good conspiracy theory!), but I can’t help feeling left a little short changed by the folks in charge of this competition, and feeling that it fell short of being the fair contest that the players and fans deserved. Please don't think I'm getting at the All Blacks - as I'm glad to see them champions, I just wish there had been less controversy at this tournament.

Was there controversy at the last tournament? A try to Cueto and a forward pass and the penalty or drop goal that never came in the quarters? The rest periods for the second tier nations were the same the last RWC as well.

I think this RWC´s controversy has overrided the last.

In answer to your question, I don´t feel down. I feel on top of the world!

Haha Kia, you and every other Kiwi under the sun!

I feel a little deflated. The wumming's started to increase again, the 'objective' analysis has been mostly non-existant, GG's no longer here, rankings not really making a great deal of sense, one-eyed arguments, the IRB not really understanding the sport they're supposed to run and to top it all off more attacks on individual players without proof one way or the other.

But still, only a little deflated, some of the rugby we've seen this world cup has been excellant and I dont think i've left bum-marks to this extent on the edge of my seat for a while.

More than a little deflated, but not because of Englands performance, which is about what i expected, so no sour grapes there.

The best team undoubtedly won the World cup, so why do i feel all cheated and taken for a ride. Well, funny you should ask but AB Rugby, despite being the best in the World makes me angry, and i don't think i'm the only one (maybe one of the worst) But the expectation, arrogance, dismissiveness of others and not giving other teams respect, really grates on me. In addition to this that darned Haka, which is too, too precious for words, and the blatant favouritism of officialdom from IRB, through to Refs puts my back up, and offends my sense of fair play and decency, and yet the AB's can only play with the officials they get. Perhaps conspiracy is too strong a word with regard to the refs, but maybe not, but there is certainly a culture of deference to the AB brand which sticks in my craw.

So , best team won, but not a team that i, or many outside of NZ realy like,or rate, . But hey, its only my opinion, and honestly given.

Maybe its just me, but I am sort of glad to be back to normal again. No more having to listen to part time fans telling me what they have read in the Sun as if it were their own opinion, or even worth listening too. No more having people that don't follow the sport or understand the rules having to explain to me why the referee was wrong when he clearly wasn't. And the worst no more having to see muppets parading around in their national couours etc when they usually don't give a stuff. Now it is back to basics, talking about rugby with people who actually care and understand the game.

However I do see where you are coming from, but I don't believe there was any conspirancy to get the Blacks to win

Thought it was a great competition actually. Controversies no different to what you get in the 6N every year.

Major theme - gap between SH and NH appears to have narrowed. Ireland beat Oz, Wales and France lose thrillers by just one point.

Concerns are about state of the laws, which are getting much too esoteric, especially relating to rucks and scrums, also players getting too big. We don't want to turn the game into American football, where rules are incomprehensible and players are steroid-nurtured freaks.

As for reffing, game is now too fast and complicated to be reffed by one man's naked eye. We need another two refs in the stands in constant radio contact.

I totally agree about having two refs - one via video in the main refs ear, but I think hell will have frozen over, thawed and refrozen by the time we see the IRB adopt anything so revolutionary or logical.

Just wondering if EW is Matt Williams. Who cares if you don't like NZ, but to not rate them? Surely they must be a half decent team to have the record they do.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:I totally agree about having two refs - one via video in the main refs ear, but I think hell will have frozen over, thawed and refrozen by the time we see the IRB adopt anything so revolutionary or logical.

Also even though I do not condone 'chetaing', aren't the skills of the openside (well most breakdown skills really) based around trying to push the rules as far as the specific ref will allow? If you went to having numerous officials (like in the NFL) then surely the 'dark arts' will be lost, and the openside may as well become another big muscle bound battering ram.

Yeh. I'm a bit down, I think I just need a bit of a rest. Its bloody hard putting up with Mrs Offload's continual "how many more games are you going to watch?" and "It's been weeks since you lifted a finger.......blah blah blah " and "the dog won't walk himself you know"

Now I'm full on commenting on all these controversies - I can't get a minutes peace

All I want is to recharge my batteries in time for the HC.
(the one's in the TV remote)

For me this has been the best World Cup since 1999. I think it's been great.

I suppose your view of how the World Cup's gone will come down to whether you consider controversial refereeing decisions as bad or as adding additional drama to the tournament.

I am totaly disillusioned with rugby as a whole at the moment, I posted this on another thread earlier. I am fed up to the back teeth, when I am watching games that the players themselves cannot dictate the out come. Weather it be the world cup or the Rabbo direct, I am fed up of referees deciding the results of games. All I am asking for is concistency. During the off season the IRB should get every professional/semi professional ref together and tell them what guidelines to follow when reffing a game. The amount of poor reffing I have seen in the league and world cup this season is scandelous.

Additional drama sure - but not particularly welcome drama. Like a film with an unnecessary and contrived plot twist - it may heighten interest, but it cheapens the experience overall, I feel.

No

LordDowlais wrote:I am totaly disillusioned with rugby as a whole at the moment, I posted this on another thread earlier. I am fed up to the back teeth, when I am watching games that the players themselves cannot dictate the out come. Weather it be the world cup or the Rabbo direct, I am fed up of referees deciding the results of games. All I am asking for is concistency. During the off season the IRB should get every professional/semi professional ref together and tell them what guidelines to follow when reffing a game. The amount of poor reffing I have seen in the league and world cup this season is scandelous.

Shame on you Lord. You need a bit of this some of this and a lot of this Keep the faith

"Anyone else feel a bit down about rugby this week?"

Not really. It'll be lovely sleeping properly and getting up when I want. Watching domestic rugby's not so bad and there's always the Heino coming up to look forward to as well

Yup I'm with the OP on this one.

Look the World cups over and the sooner we all get back to Welsh fans inflating their idea of their team being top rank, Englad fans reminising about when we had a World cup winning side, the Irish being Rugby geniuses on the back of 2 GS in a 1000 years, the Scots being Scots, and trying hard and losing, and the French complaining about the English speaking Rugby world excluding them. So put it all to bed, and lets get back to doing what we all do best, Bitching about each other!! Huzzah!!

I always enjoy the RWC, imperfect as it is, with all the controversy, great plays, dumb behaviour, stupid comments, and losers who should have won. So the immediate time afterwards seems a bit, well, too quiet for me. Let's get back into the Premeirship, the Celtic/Rabo, the Top 14, and the HC.

Need to get our blood up again.

It's pretty usual/natural for losing teams to complain about refs in close games - but what seems to have marked out this tournament is the fact that neutrals seem to have been the ones complaining loudest! Something has to change, surely?

Marcus - is i just that we have been one of the nations that feels like they got shafted so we notice others complaining in our defense? Also the sides that have had the 'iffy' decisions against them have tended to be sides that the neutrals would have been backing too so I guess that makes their whinging less neutral than you would first think.

Scarlet, now we have controversy over the whinging about controversy!

Someone think of the children!

offload wrote:Yeh. I'm a bit down, I think I just need a bit of a rest. Its bloody hard putting up with Mrs Offload's continual "how many more games are you going to watch?" and "It's been weeks since you lifted a finger.......blah blah blah " and "the dog won't walk himself you know"

Does your wife have a long lost twin sister living in Canada as she sounds identical to mine, especially over the last 7 weeks

To be honest I'm pretty fed up after the final (I won't go over it again, see separate thread!). Anything up to that was just controversy that tournaments like this throw up, all part of the world cup and until Saturday I was really enjoying it but now it's left me feeling as though the whole thing was a little pointless. As others say, getting back to the bread and butter of club rugby should mean that things are back to normal again soon.

offload wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I am totaly disillusioned with rugby as a whole at the moment, I posted this on another thread earlier. I am fed up to the back teeth, when I am watching games that the players themselves cannot dictate the out come. Weather it be the world cup or the Rabbo direct, I am fed up of referees deciding the results of games. All I am asking for is concistency. During the off season the IRB should get every professional/semi professional ref together and tell them what guidelines to follow when reffing a game. The amount of poor reffing I have seen in the league and world cup this season is scandelous.

Shame on you Lord. You need a bit of this some of this and a lot of this Keep the faith

Offload, trust me, I am keeping the faith, rugby union has been a big factor in my life branded onto me by my farther harping back to the golden seventies side's, and trying to keep playing from a young age even though all my best mates grew to twice the size of me, I will still try and go to as much games I can afford and I am still going to take my oldest daughter to the Australia game in December,BUT, and I mean BUT, I just want to watch a game of rugby when the ref does not get talked about more than the game itself I bet you a quid that at least one game in the rabbo this weekend will have some dubious decisions and we are back again arguing about cheating refs or one sided refs. My first shout will be for the Ospreys V Glasgow game on Friday night

Well the first question is, would you like me to be polite or honest? Because if I am honest I am told I am wumming, so irrespective of whether you can handle the truth or not, here goes.

I said since 2009 that the All Blacks were going to win this tournament. And for several reasons. They are consistently the best team. They have home ground advantage. Since the days of yore they prepare for every eventuality and not since 1981 did I have the feeling that they have once again prepared the deck as much as they could. I am not starting a conspiracy theory here, just voicing a feeling, there have been a lot of "coincidences” in this world cup and too many controversies.

Getting back to the Springboks, on face value they looked out of it, have had two years of very poor tri nations. But on closer analysis I found a few anomolies that made me believe we are the only team that can stop the All Blacks, Our best team have only played something like 24 tests together, but crucially they won 20 of those matches

The other factor was the players from the 2007 rwc showed a clear pattern of loss of motivation and commitment. Winning nearly 75% of their test since the world cup and up to the tri nations of 2009, then with a mixture of injuries and very poor performances lost 52% of their matches since then leading up to the rwc.

They still however only lost 3 matches in Europe during this time. I knew if all the players were back we would be a different animal.

Although we started slow in the RWC we built momentum and players like Bismarck, Rossouw, Burger, Hougaard, Frans Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Pietersen and even Lambie to an extent were in top form.

Steyn had his kicking boots on and the team seemed motivated and wanting to perform.

I am going to stop there, as I have said enough about The result.

All I can say is that we would have been very, very tough indeed against the All Blacks and in my most likely biased opinion better than most teams during the rwc. To hhave gone out in the way we did and with all the little things said by NZ media, which in my opinion redirected focus, to the controversies and everything else leaves a very hollow pit in my stomach.

I am going to enjoy having a longer lie in on the weekend

"BUT, and I mean BUT, I just want to watch a game of rugby when the ref does not get talked about more than the game itself I bet you a quid that at least one game in the rabbo this weekend will have some dubious decisions and we are back again arguing about cheating refs or one sided refs. "

LordDowlais - yes I see your point well enough, but you'll always need some frustration tolerance with our sport. I suppose you could always dumb down and start watching rugby league - but I wouldn't wish that on anyone!!

MarcusHalberstram wrote:It's pretty usual/natural for losing teams to complain about refs in close games - but what seems to have marked out this tournament is the fact that neutrals seem to have been the ones complaining loudest! Something has to change, surely?

A question about how neutral most people really are. Just because the neither team is representing your country doesn't make you a neutral.
Most people like to support the underdog. Lots of people will support a NH team vs a SH team (and vice versa). Some people think about who they might prefer to win because of the impact it may have on their team.

Unlikely to change. With more media, shorter memories and sites like this its probably going to get worse.

biltongbek wrote:Well the first question is, would you like me to be polite or honest? Because if I am honest I am told I am wumming, so irrespective of whether you can handle the truth or not, here goes.

I said since 2009 that the All Blacks were going to win this tournament. And for several reasons. They are consistently the best team. They have home ground advantage. Since the days of yore they prepare for every eventuality and not since 1981 did I have the feeling that they have once again prepared the deck as much as they could. I am not starting a conspiracy theory here, just voicing a feeling, there have been a lot of "coincidences” in this world cup and too many controversies.

Getting back to the Springboks, on face value they looked out of it, have had two years of very poor tri nations. But on closer analysis I found a few anomolies that made me believe we are the only team that can stop the All Blacks, Our best team have only played something like 24 tests together, but crucially they won 20 of those matches

The other factor was the players from the 2007 rwc showed a clear pattern of loss of motivation and commitment. Winning nearly 75% of their test since the world cup and up to the tri nations of 2009, then with a mixture of injuries and very poor performances lost 52% of their matches since then leading up to the rwc.

They still however only lost 3 matches in Europe during this time. I knew if all the players were back we would be a different animal.

Although we started slow in the RWC we built momentum and players like Bismarck, Rossouw, Burger, Hougaard, Frans Steyn, Jaque Fourie, Pietersen and even Lambie to an extent were in top form.

Steyn had his kicking boots on and the team seemed motivated and wanting to perform.

I am going to stop there, as I have said enough about The result.

All I can say is that we would have been very, very tough indeed against the All Blacks and in my most likely biased opinion better than most teams during the rwc. To hhave gone out in the way we did and with all the little things said by NZ media, which in my opinion redirected focus, to the controversies and everything else leaves a very hollow pit in my stomach.

Fair comment Biltong. Us Kiwi's were expecting the team to win and no less. Even a final loss would have been a huge disappointment.
The difficult thing for us is for just about every tournament we are the favourites- at least at the bookies- 07, 03, 99, 95 at least. I'm not sure about 91- I think Oz were for both 91 and I know they were in 87.

So 24 years has built this expectation up. You have experienced the last win and another since then, in both cases the ABs were favourites.

So that is a very very hard pill to swallow- one that no other team's supporters have any idea of. With the AB's being THE most successful team in any sport at any level ( I still havnt seen an instance of a better record over the same period) that makes our world cup record unbelievably dismal.

This week the AB's (and most NZers) were completely blown away by the numbers turning up to the street parades- biggest crowds Ive ever seen in NZ anywhere. 60,000 people were at the match and another 200,000 Ive heard were a mile away at the fanzone for the final.

What I think this has caused is a very patriotic response and despite the generous nature of NZers with the visitors we've taken a very selfish approach about the results I agree. We've also ridden the luck and scoffed at those who havnt had it, particularly in the media and on these boards.

But I still think all that is part of the huge monkey on our backs and when that final whistle (finally) went I believe demons and baggage was literally released from the souls of thousands if not millions of AB supporters. I felt it and saw it all around me, everywhere.

So youre right. Its real and we've gotta get off our high horses and get back to treating our neighbours and foes with a bit more respect. I don't speak for other kiwi's on here but in putting myself in the shoes of what SA fans, Oz and NH fans (also Samoan) I think we could have dealt with things better- I know I could have but I also know we got on great with every visiting fan we came across and they were awesome- at least the many I met were.

But this 24 year old monkey has obviously entrenched itself into every nook and cranny in the country it seems and hopefully we can get back to some sense of normality.

At least this cup there will be more babies rather than visits to the various refuges and shelters- a sad but true outcome in these parts.

Bit of a break from these boards for a while I think and I'll be looking forward to seeing the 6N teams now that I know more about them than I ever have and then particularly the rise of SA again. And our...gulp...new coach...

biltongbek wrote:Well the first question is, would you like me to be polite or honest? Because if I am honest I am told I am wumming, so irrespective of whether you can handle the truth or not, here goes.

I said since 2009 that the All Blacks were going to win this tournament. And for several reasons. They are consistently the best team. They have home ground advantage. Since the days of yore they prepare for every eventuality and not since 1981 did I have the feeling that they have once again prepared the deck as much as they could. I am not starting a conspiracy theory here, just voicing a feeling, there have been a lot of "coincidences” in this world cup and too many controversies.

No doubting I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but ... huh?

Read between the lines boomeranga, I ain't saying another word.