Heineken Cup: Pool 1

First topic message reminder :

Fans from all corners of Europe absolutely love the Heineken Cup. I will be doing just a brief preview of the European competition pool by pool with fans giving their opinion on who will top the pool, get runners-up spot and who will get absolutely tonked. On the eleventh of November the competition will officially start, two-time winners Leinster are the current holders.

Pool one - arguably a pool of death with two previous Heineken Cup winners and no whipping boys:
Castres Olympique
Munster Rugby
Northampton Saints
Scarlets

Munster are my pick to top the pool, not much explanation needed why but I'll try anyway. Munster first won this competition in 2005 beating Biarritz in the final and again in 2008, beating Toulouse in that final. It came after four years of hurt, hurt by falling just short at the knock-out stages. In the first three years of the competition Munster failed to get out of their pool but ever since have enjoyed over a decade of dominance. 2011 saw them not make the knock-out stages for the first time in 13 years. They have one of the most experienced teams in the competition and will be bolstered by new signgins BJ Botha and ROG's fly-half successor Ian Keatley who has been having a great first season with his new team. Current holders of the Celtic League trophy and have shown some good form without their top Ireland players, when at full strength the European Giants will go into this competition with a "we have a point to prove" attitude and be very hard to halt.

The Saints to grabb the runners-up spot. They were last years losing finalists having been impressively unbeaten up until that point and previously won the competition in 2000 defeating guess who.... Munster! More recently, Saints have won the European Challenge cup in 2008 and the LV Cup in 2010 so a winning mentality is nothing new to these guys. Mallinder has put some hard work into building the team and guys have rosen through the club to become first choice England internationals in their positions; most notably of these are Courtney Lawes, Chris Ashton and Ben Foden. Also recently they have battled their main pool rivals in this competition. In 2010 these two teams faced each other three times in this competition with each getting one pool victory over the other. However Saints lost in a convincing fashion in the quarter final after having to travel away to the fortress of pool winners Munster. Northampton suffered with international call-ups so have not faired too well in the English Premiership so far. The returning internationals will be eager to help their team get back to the highest heights with the Heino being the ideal opportunity for this.

The Scarlets. A young exciting team full of attacking threat but lacking in pedigree and go forward power. Can be the most exciting team to watch when on the front foot but also the most frustrating on the back foot. Their most recent successful run in this competition came in 2007 when reaching the semi-finals after topping their pool in style and beating the then current holders Munster in the quarters. Prior to this they made the KO stages in 2004. Following on from 2007 a tough financial situation along with the signings of dross players and the sacking of coaches lead the Region to suffer and become whipping boys to the powerhouse teams of this competiton. They've had some heavy defeats handed to them both home and away. Head Coach Nigel Davies has since had to recruit from within with it finally starting to pay off. The Scarlets have the potential to win all of their home games but it is unlikely, I also see their leaky defence leading to heavy defeats away from home to Munster and Northampton; LBP's in these fixtures will be seen as a good result for the Scarlets. In my opinion they are now strong and experienced enough to no longer being whipping boys for any big team. Third/Fourth place pool finish (i'm un-decided).

Castres Olympique, I'm a little unsure of. If I remember rightly they're just typical French, can be exceptional in France but always likely to lose away from home. They may have won the challenge cup in 2003 albeit called the Shield at the time. As far as I am aware it is the second year back in the competition after having to fight their way back into the top 6/7 of the Top 14. They finished third in their pool last year behind Saints and Cardiff; they gave a very good account of themselves in Franklins Gardens and were unlucky not to come away with the win. The fact that they currently sit 3rd in one of the toughest rugby competitions shows that they are to be reckoned with. They're lacking in internationals and big game experience but have recruited well enough to challenge the other three teams. In my opinion the other three teams will target Castres as the potential 'double' - basically doing the double over them in the pool stages. Third/Fourth place pool finish (i'm un-decided).

Morg's pick: Munster will win pool one with the most wins and points, Northampton in a close second place with both teams progressing to the knock-out stages. Munsters quality and experience can see them all the way to the final. Runners-up Northampton may not do so well away from home but will again give a very good account of themselves and still have the potential to reach the final. Who are your picks for pool one folks?

Ahh man - nobody loves the all blacks!

red_stag wrote:I've said it on other threads I am more wary of Scarlets and Castres than I am about Saints. I think Castres will travel badly if stereotyping French sides are anything to go by. But its a tough pool - 27th October 2011

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I always find it funny when the HC rolls around, the Scarlets get written off as the third placed team in a pool that the first and second place sides will progress from. Yet for the last two seasons we have had a major impact in the pool. Two years ago we made London Irish look like a bunch of fools, and last season we were humped by sitting at the top of the table going into the final to rounds.

See i warned you all. It should be very interesting to see what the outcome of the double headers is like. As i do think that Castres may wel feild a weaker side, and may leave Northampton a good chance of picking up two wins there.

(p.s. would have been on straight after the second round, but work has kept too busy to get near a pc).

Ozzy3213 wrote:This is a very tough pool, and one that I can't see two teams getting out of. At present due to World Cup abstractions for Munster, Saints and Scarlets, it's difficult to know who is going to hit the ground running in a fortnights time.

If the Scarlets can get off to a good start against Castres first up, I fancy them as the dark horses to sneak this pool.

First post on the thread SS, I tipped your boys from the start.

Well SS, your team has clearly improved and continues to do so. Can't blame anyone for early predictions though, afterall who would have predicted Scarlets getting the bonus point win up in Northampton.

Am annoyed that the Wales game is severely detracting from our preparations for the Munster double header, but hopefully we should be able to get something at home (maybe), we've had close games against them last season - but still not too confident about coming out on top overall.

Id be livid if I were Welsh. It will be tough. We haven't forgotton our defeat there in HEC 2007 and the tough tough win we earned in 2008.

HEC is a different animal entirely to league.

Morgannwg wrote:Well SS, your team has clearly improved and continues to do so. Can't blame anyone for early predictions though, afterall who would have predicted Scarlets getting the bonus point win up in Northampton.

indeed : 4 out of 58 in the 606v2 sportguru pool did predict a scarlets win! and not sure if they were all thinking about a BP as well!

Scarlets players improve every time they play for Wales, so it could yet be a possitive. It's not like any of the Regions would rest these players a week before the third round of Heineken cup rugby anyway.

But it would enable the regions to both build momentum and develop a settled team going into the HEC double headers - hopefully getting a win. They would also be likely to only play the internationals for 40/60 mins - or bring them on as substitutes - rather than play 80 mins of a high intensity test match.

They would also be able to get settled combinations a week before a huge period of rugby begins for the regions. - rather than getting knackered internationals back 4 days before a HEC game

To be honest even if it weren't the HEC next week I would still be miffed about the WRU squeezing the Aussie match in about now, as the regions were starting to get used to having their players back only to lose them for a fortnight (or more if they get knocks) again. But that said that is the nature of the beast when dealing with the WRU. And I guess it could be a possitive for the regions as theoretically the step up from international rugby to the HEC is not as big as the step up from the Rabo to the HEC. It could be a blessing in desguise, but i doubt it.

I'm the same SS - especially as I think about the toll the 4th AI has taken on many of the Welsh players over the years - especially the younger ones, and they've had to have surgery/long time out and have just come back only to be whisked away for the 6N's where they're played half fit and then get injured again...