The Decline of The LPGA

In the words of LP, which I agree with, we need to think about something else today and let things calm down. So here's a couple of debating points:

1) The LPGA don't have a clue how to run their tour and have made ladies golf in the States go backwards.

2) Finchem will walk into the sunset in a year or two, after he makes more gaffs and the PGA tour looks like splintering.

Finchem will also probably walk away with a vast, undeserved pension!

And I quite agree about the LPGA - what a farce!!!

LP, I think I'm right in saying that, because the LPGA wanted to grow the game as fast as possible (And grow revenue), that they decided to go outside the country and play all over. This was great for the Koreans who now dominate the ladies game, but has caused untold problems back home as the ladies game is in decline.

This may also be a sweeping, sexist generalisation, but I feel that the US ladies can only progress if they are a blonde pin-up type, who will get loads of top endorsements. This would be a root cause for ladies not breaking through as well.

<Mavbreathesasighandmoveson>

Thats better now to the points in hand.

1) Interestingly enough this is something that was brought up on golfing world on sky the other night. They had an interview with american Solheim Cupper Ryan O'Toole. I was surprised when she mentioned how few events there actually are now, and how they have to now keeping flitting from continent to continent e.g. US & Asia to make up a full playing schedule. I remember there was the like of Sorenstam, Webb, Ochoa, Pak et al not to many years ago showing how good the ladies game was. What happened how can the bottom have literally fallen out of the LPGA unless it really is poorly managed. Yet the LET seems to be experiencing gradual growth allowing it to get better each year.

2) "Dim" Finchem well lets not get started on him and his ideals. Just glad the CIMB open thing he is running this week is suffering from a severe lack of top players on Sneds inside OGWR top 30 is playing

I wonder does the state of the women’s game show what is to come for the men after a prolonged period of US players not being the very best and the jingoistic tastes of the people pumping money into the game?

If Michelle Wie had dominated as she could have done and as Tseng has done would the marketing men have jumped ship in the way they seem to have done with the LPGA tour. Does the PGA tour loose its appeal for the US advertisers and TV networks if European and then Asian players start to fill the majority of the top 25 or 50. I always see tournament deaths like the LPGA has suffered in recent times as a marker for the strength of a tour in terms of sponsor appeal.

Post tiger, post top US players, does shelling out 5 to 10 million on an event make any sense if you are inclined towards your own as I suspect those who sponsor sport in the US are?


Doc

Any chance you change the name of the thread to reflect the discussion, as I think it is a good topic that could do with being dissociated with yesterdays debacle.

i don't think the LPGA tour is the only one that's going to suffer, although it may suffer more and sooner than other golf tours.

The real crux of the matter is that it's hard to justify the outlay on sponsoring a golf tournament with the financial meltdown that's going on at the moment.

Some sponsors are locked in at present, but as their contractual obligation ends I think it'll be the exception rather than the rule to do it again.

I think the world of pro golf will be a different place in 2014 or 2015 to what we have seen in the last few years. Fewer events, perhaps a few bigger events than at present, and a lot of scaled down events. I think there will be an emphasis on sponsors getting a return for their money, so perhaps some cooperation to allow joint deals, and such like.

The LPGA tour has a problem similar to the WTA tour in tennis. It's simply not as marketable as it once was.

The influx of Asian players may be good for the game in that part of the world, but their general lack of charisma, and machine-like play leave people cold. Having players you can't relate to, and don't care about will only lead to people switching off their TVs, the networks having 2nd thoughts, the sponsors not wanting to sponsor an event if they won't get value for money, culminating with the demise of the tournament.

The LPGA tour should be based in America, and only in America, and there shouldn't be gaps in the schedule to accomodate events in other countries. The European Tour make switching from Europe to Asia work because people are already used to traveling from country to country, week in, week out, and geographically it's far less of a leap than traveling from the US to Asia, meaning that more top players will be likely to do it. Of course, the fact that there's more money in the mens game makes it a far more attractive proposition too.

The decline in lpga sponsorship interest is directly linked to the dominating non english-speaking asian invasion.

And, yes, Doc, you are being sexist. Sadly, you're far from being alone in your opinion.

Over the last few years a lot has been written about the decline of the LPGA and some of it has been attributed to Carolyn Givens:-
1."Carolyn Bivens is making a mess of the LPGA Tour, and unless she changes her attitude or someone wises up and cans her, the LPGA Tour may be headed for some bad, bad times."
June 2006
http://thesandtrap.com/b/swing_thoughts/carolyn_bivens_courageously_running_lpga_into_the_ground
2."The LPGA first hit the 40-tournament mark in 1980, a figure it matched in 1981, and had a run of six consecutive seasons with at least 40 tournaments beginning in 1996. But the defection of some long-time sponsors when licensing and TV fees for tournament owners were raised under commissioner Caroline Bivens was the beginning of a perfect storm of bad events for the LPGA. "
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-digest-woman/blogs/golf-digest-woman/2011/09/sirak-lpgas-painful-campaign-c.html

Some of the comments on these pages could represent a lot of the American viewing public who are not really interested in Golf which may explain why the LET is slowly growing.
"Sex sells and the LPGA isn't sexy. When I choose to watch the LPGA I want to see Natalie Gulbis, Paula Creamer, Morgan Pressel, Sandra Gal etc, hopefully you get my drift. I don't and can't watch fat girls dressed like boys. It's creepy."
"Get a clue LPGA, you've got a predominantly international lineup touring the states. If you want american fans to go to or watch the games on TV, if you want to build an american fan base to get american sponsors then field a predominantly american lineup, regardless of who the top players are. The asian fans in the audience are not following americans or europeans, they're following asians, that's just the way it is and visa versa. If the top players are asian then perhaps the asian tour should be the major tour."

If Golf remains an Olympic sport then more Countries will be prepared to develop the game and there will be more International competition at the top so perhaps the Tours, PGA and LPGA, will introduce more strigent qualification criteria to give the homegrown players more opportunities of winning.

gael it was meant to be tongue in cheek, and I did say it was a generalisation, but think it's probably a factor.

Some good points coming out and I think the main one is obviously sponsorship, marketing and advertising and a badly managed tour. This revenue issue has been around for a couple of years, but got worse at the start of this season, as Finchem didn't even have main sponsors for a couple of events. There are, as has been mentioned, some companies who are locked with contracts, but think some of those are up around now. So Finchem will be sweating for next year.

In respect of the LPGA though, this tour has been in decline prior to the recent economic climate. They decided to spread the gospel and grow the ladies game outside the US, but forgot about the grass roots of the game. This can clearly be seen if compared to the mens tour, as the Asian players are coming on, and we know golf is popular, but the numbers of Asian players breaking through are nowhere near the dominance of the Asian ladies.

Do the ladies have the same colligiate system as the men? or is the catchment area different for the ladies. I enjoy watching ladies golf, especially as Mrs Doc plays the game, but I'm not an efficionado, just an outsider looking in that can see a massive problem brewing.

Sex Sells: I think that comment is true of how the US have allowed ladies golf to now be portrayed over there. That is the fault of the LPGA and no-one else. When there were players like Annika, Ochoa etc it was about the golf and the standard was high.

In recent years instead of focusing on the talent of the player of the individuals they've tried to make the player the "talent" if you get my meaning, fat american slobs wanting to ogle the eye candy instead of focusing on the skills they have as golfers.

This all began with Wie, the young girl full of talent on the course and one they were hoping would turn into a talent off it! (didnt happen on either count) They now have the likes of Blair O'Neal (who is a very attractive young lady) but more importantly a talented golfer, but they focus on getting images of her in swimsuit shots to promote her rather than what she can do on the course as it's what the american male fanbase want to see. Same with Lexi Thopmson a young girl with oddles of potential, but yet they are focusing on what she looks like as the potential crowd puller.

Would it be so hard to concetrate on the execeptional skills these ladies (not girls) because it's a ladies tour and using that to get youngsters into the game instead of trying to make the LPGA into an episode of Boobwatch with swimsuit images.

Doc wrote:This can clearly be seen if compared to the mens tour, as the Asian players are coming on, and we know golf is popular, but the numbers of Asian players breaking through are nowhere near the dominance of the Asian ladies.

I don't know how many countries it applies to but the Koreans still have compulsory military service so this takes a large chunk out out of the male golfers life where they are not able to practice so has led to slow development, which probably accounts for the lack of male Korean players in the top 50 of the OWGR.

K&S maybe relevant, but if National Service is into play, then it usually means ladies as well. I get the feeling that the Asian men are good, but need to be better to qualify onto the PGA Tour. In simplistic terms, the Asian ladies don't have the same level of competition in the states, which makes it easier for them to get in.

Mav, I'm sure I saw Carrie Webb being interviewed a few months ago, and she was kicking off about the way things have gone. I believe carrie is one of the most respected US ladies and still a top contender on tour, so maybe the LPGA would be best served listening to her.

The sex aspect is a real problem and obvious too. The ladies ET is going from strength to strength, but Laura Davies and Becky Brewerton are never going to be seen in Playboy, and we have some good young girls coming through from all over Europe, and even Germany are producing a couple of top ladies. BUT it seems the decent Scandinavian ladies, who also happen to be 'lookers' are soon transplanted onto the LPGA, because of money. But why should the Americans only want totty and talent as a side-bar.

"gael it was meant to be tongue in cheek, and I did say it was a generalisation, but think it's probably a factor."

And I think you're being disingenuous Doc. Just look at what happens on here (and the previous BBC sites) whenever the subject of women's golf is raised. For most male posters, the totty factor is the ONLY thing worth discussing when it comes to the women's game. I can't think of another female sport where participants are treated with so little respect.

I also think the players are partly to blame for this. Because the women don't hit the ball as far as the men, they've allowed themselves to be conned into thinking this means they have to compensate by 'sexing up' their appearance in order to get sponsorship backing. However, it seems to me the Natalie Gulbis' of this world succeed only in diminishing the women's game.

Incidentally, there is and has been for sometime now a comprehensive american women's college system. However, british male and female students no longer have to travel to America. Stirling University offers a golf course where they can learn to play the game just as slowly as they do in the states.

Strange isn't it how Laura Davies is regularly singled out because of her weight and, yet, whenever I've gone to a tournament she's playing in, guess which player all the guys want to see play?

gaelgowfer wrote:Strange isn't it how Laura Davies is regularly singled out because of her weight and, yet, whenever I've gone to a tournament she's playing in, guess which player all the guys want to see play?

Do they?

Doc wrote:K&S maybe relevant, but if National Service is into play, then it usually means ladies as well.

My understanding is that it is only the men in South Korea who have to do military service.

gael I'm sorry you feel that way, but this post was a serious article and as you can see by almost all the replies, that the people who have posted actually have an opinion, and do know something about the subject matter. I agree that the 'totty' aspect will always be a factor within US ladies golf, but thats what's been presented to the world at the moment. I know much, much more about the ladies game over here than the LPGA, as I watch it with wife. Totty doesn't really come into it over here, its all about the golf.

You obviously have a very valid view about the subject, and guess you're not too pleased about the way LPGA golf is marketed/packaged, which is great, but I feel that this aspect is part of the overall problem.

Whilst we're on the subject, how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot. If Rory or Darren Day etc, were cavorting round the course in skimpy shorts and showing their 6-packs, you just know female viewers would switch on in droves

For most male posters, the totty factor is the ONLY thing worth discussing when it comes to the women's game

Only the ones that have no genuine interest in the game. But in general an accurate statement, which is fueled by the ineptitude of those running the tours trying to appeal to people that have no interest in the sport instead of trying to capitalise on the ones who do.

I can't think of another female sport where participants are treated with so little respect.

Can't argue with that either.

I also think the players are partly to blame for this. Because the women don't hit the ball as far as the men, they've allowed themselves to be conned into thinking this means they have to compensate by 'sexing up' their appearance in order to get sponsorship backing

Again completely agree, if the players simply made a stand and stated were here to play golf and will look to earn a fanbase that way instead of getting down to our skimpies then this issue would pretty quickly disappear.

My own opinion is that it doesn't matter how far they hit it, I enjoy watching the ladies game for the tempo of the swings and how they put premium on accuracy and course management, the 3 simplest areas that every amateur should focuse on instead of brawn

Strange isn't it how Laura Davies is regularly singled out because of her weight and, yet, whenever I've gone to a tournament she's playing in, guess which player all the guys want to see play?

I'd say thats because the men that go to watch LET events are actual golf fans and not there simply for the eye candy. I would much rather follow Laura and Marvel at her driving ability for 18 holes than follow around some average player that happens to tick the boxes on the looks front. I'm taking Mavette to a few LET events next year and the focus will always be about the golf and who she can learn from.

I'd rather see golf played how it should be played, not to see players like Gulbis & Creamer bending over to get their ball out of the hole.

As a result, I'd follow who I'd deem to be the best golfers, whether, they're skinny blondes with endless legs, or big bertha's in argyle sweaters.

That said, I'd probably take 5 minutes to have a look at Gulbis and Creamer until the novelty wore off, or Mrs M gave me THAT stare.

Doc wrote:
The sex aspect is a real problem and obvious too. The ladies ET is going from strength to strength, but Laura Davies and Becky Brewerton are never going to be seen in Playboy, and we have some good young girls coming through from all over Europe, and even Germany are producing a couple of top ladies. BUT it seems the decent Scandinavian ladies, who also happen to be 'lookers' are soon transplanted onto the LPGA, because of money. But why should the Americans only want totty and talent as a side-bar.

Not sure that it is just the Americans either. When Catriona Mathews won the Ricoh Women’s British Open there was no rush of sponsors and I think it took nearly a year before Aberdeen Asset Management took her on.

One of the problems on the LPGA tour is the painfully slow play. Also, the constant "interference" of the caddies. Surely one of the skills a professional golfer should have is the ability to align themselves without outside assistance.
These issues make it a less attractive TV viewing propsition.

Out of interest, which sport competed in by women is the most popular for viewer and sponsors?
Tennis seems a reasonable shout. I think the problem with golf is two-fold.
Firstly it's (golf in general) not terribly dynamic, and secondly, there is still a hard core of golfers/spectators/viewers who are old farts who have no interest in womens golf.

and secondly, there is still a hard core of golfers/spectators/viewers who are old farts who have no interest in womens golf

A lot of truth in statement, probably why the LPGA have wrongly decided to try to hard to sex it up to get new viewers. When simply they'd be better off arranging some form of LPGA players day out into schools etc to get interest up amongst youngsters to bring in a new breed and bypass the middled aged sex pest types... (damn Macs oon the boxing board now applied so well to him that statement to :whislte:

super_realist wrote:Out of interest, which sport competed in by women is the most popular for viewer and sponsors?
Tennis seems a reasonable shout.

That is probably Country dependent.
Winter sports, skiing etc do well in Europe. Distance running for some of the African countries....

20 - 30 years ago the LPGA was almost on a par in the US with the PGA Tour; Lopez, Sheehan, Daniel, King, Inkster and Keegan's Auntie Pat Bradley were all great golfers and welcomed the Sally Little, Akamoto, Davies, Neumann, Sorenstam, Karrie Webb, Se Ri Pak generation of international players. Their prize money was good, there was a tournament every week, TV Networks embraced them
But terrible management, overwhelming influx of Asian players unwilling to "Americanise" their personalities and behaviour, slow play, turned sponsors, TV Networks, advertisers, press coverage and fans away in their droves.

Unfortunately all this happened as advertising dollars were shrinking, LPGA Tour management was trying to extort "fees" from communities to allow them the privilege of staging a tournament there and the self-fulfilling prophecy came to pass.

Now we have half the number of US-based tournaments as in the eighties and nineties heydays but almost comparable prize money. The small community-based tournaments which used to be the foundation of the LPGA Tour have almpost completely disappeared and any growth now seems to be top down instead of a more sustainable bottom up model.

Others may disagree, but I thought the Solheim Cup was one of the highlights of the golfing year, proof that there is a good product there if only the LPGA management can get their heads out of their rses.

LPGA pro's not at the higher echelon of LPGA players can only expect to play a dozen or so events per year - completely unrealistic for a young golfer of anything but the highest possible calibre to make a living in the US these days. But things may just have bottomed out in 2011. Time will tell.


As for Finchem, he just signed a new series of long-term Network TV contracts and it is widely thought that will pave the way for his renewed contract - he's making several million dollars a year and has been for a decade and a half. His pension is probably worth many millions a year.

Nothing new in American sport where Administrative bodies are basically parasites, sucking gazillions out of the sport they preside over - every sign from my vantage point that British sport is going the same route with governing bodies ever further removed from the sport they're sucking the lifeblood out of.

Doc wrote:gael I'm sorry you feel that way, but this post was a serious article and as you can see by almost all the replies, that the people who have posted actually have an opinion, and do know something about the subject matter. I agree that the 'totty' aspect will always be a factor within US ladies golf, but thats what's been presented to the world at the moment. I know much, much more about the ladies game over here than the LPGA, as I watch it with wife. Totty doesn't really come into it over here, its all about the golf.

My opinion on this subject is based on years of reading sexist posts from the BBC 606 board and the previous BBC message board before that and, european totty was drooled over even more that american totty!

You obviously have a very valid view about the subject, and guess you're not too pleased about the way LPGA golf is marketed/packaged, which is great, but I feel that this aspect is part of the overall problem.

Agreed.

Whilst we're on the subject, how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot. If Rory or Darren Day etc, were cavorting round the course in skimpy shorts and showing their 6-packs, you just know female viewers would switch on in droves

Are 'we' still in tongue-in-cheek mode?

gael

Kwini

"overwhelming influx of Asian players unwilling to "Americanise" their personalities and behaviour"

Do you see this as a negative or are you speaking from the point of view of ad men?

Whats the point in letting oversea's players in if all you want to do is make them be American?

Mac why are you on here and not off hounding the boxing boards....

But I do agree that they should not have to americanise

Eyetoldyouso wrote:One of the problems on the LPGA tour is the painfully slow play. Also, the constant "interference" of the caddies. Surely one of the skills a professional golfer should have is the ability to align themselves without outside assistance.
These issues make it a less attractive TV viewing propsition.

Totally agree with you although in so far as american tv is concerned, it's the the constant advert breaks that have me reaching for the 'off' switch.

The problem is, this is how they are being taught. The top amateurs now have psychologists, fitness trainers as well as golf coaches. Anyone who attended the Curtis Cup (female amateur equivalent of the Walker Cup) when it was held at St. Andrews would have been thoroughly disgusted (not to mention freezing cold) at the length of time players took over their shots. One the british players (scots girl, Krystle Caithness) even talked to herself before finally squaring up to the ball.

The event is coming to Nairn next year. Bugga!

Gael,
I've seen that Krystle Caithness a few times (total munter by the way) and she is a very poor golfer. Her short game is abyssmal for a so-called professional (as she now is) and one of the club fitters at the fitting centre haas had to take her under his wing to sort it out. Not sure how she's going, but it seems that some players are still very unprofessional in their attitude towards their game. Perhaps that is an issue as to why it is losing popularity.

super_realist wrote:Gael,
I've seen that Krystle Caithness a few times (total munter by the way) and she is a very poor golfer. Her short game is abyssmal for a so-called professional (as she now is) and one of the club fitters at the fitting centre haas had to take her under his wing to sort it out. Not sure how she's going, but it seems that some players are still very unprofessional in their attitude towards their game. Perhaps that is an issue as to why it is losing popularity.

Munter I thought our ladies tour was doing quite well in comparison to the LPGA?

Mac, Mav,
Asian players?

I agree that they should show their personalities and cultural differences, but when that includes over-management by parents, refusal to learn the language and/or otherwise interact with the media and tournament sponsors, glacial pace of play, speculation of deliberate rules infingements (BIG generalisation I know) that all adds up to lack of appeal.

It's OK if the sponsor is an Asian airline, say, or electronics company, but when the grass-roots tournament sponsors are American companies who pay big money for some degree of access to players, the least they can expect is some sort of interaction and some appeal to the fans.
Think it's improved over the past couple of years, mind, but five years ago is when things really went downhill for the whole Tour, and TV coverage and sponsorship disappeared as quickly as long-established tournaments.

kwinigolfer wrote:20 - 30 years ago the LPGA was almost on a par in the US with the PGA Tour; Lopez, Sheehan, Daniel, King, Inkster and Keegan's Auntie Pat Bradley were all great golfers and welcomed the Sally Little, Akamoto, Davies, Neumann, Sorenstam, Karrie Webb, Se Ri Pak generation of international players. Their prize money was good, there was a tournament every week, TV Networks embraced them
But terrible management, overwhelming influx of Asian players unwilling to "Americanise" their personalities and behaviour, slow play, turned sponsors, TV Networks, advertisers, press coverage and fans away in their droves.

Unfortunately all this happened as advertising dollars were shrinking, LPGA Tour management was trying to extort "fees" from communities to allow them the privilege of staging a tournament there and the self-fulfilling prophecy came to pass.

Now we have half the number of US-based tournaments as in the eighties and nineties heydays but almost comparable prize money. The small community-based tournaments which used to be the foundation of the LPGA Tour have almpost completely disappeared and any growth now seems to be top down instead of a more sustainable bottom up model.

Others may disagree, but I thought the Solheim Cup was one of the highlights of the golfing year, proof that there is a good product there if only the LPGA management can get their heads out of their rses.

LPGA pro's not at the higher echelon of LPGA players can only expect to play a dozen or so events per year - completely unrealistic for a young golfer of anything but the highest possible calibre to make a living in the US these days. But things may just have bottomed out in 2011. Time will tell.


As for Finchem, he just signed a new series of long-term Network TV contracts and it is widely thought that will pave the way for his renewed contract - he's making several million dollars a year and has been for a decade and a half. His pension is probably worth many millions a year.

Nothing new in American sport where Administrative bodies are basically parasites, sucking gazillions out of the sport they preside over - every sign from my vantage point that British sport is going the same route with governing bodies ever further removed from the sport they're sucking the lifeblood out of.

kwini ... I think in some respects Bivens was unlucky. The players brought her in to raise the financial profile of their tour. Then the non english-speaking asian invasion took place. It was always going to be a hard sell to even maintain the status quo after that happened. Indeed, Bivens' successor, Michael Whang, doesn't seem to be having a very easy time of it either.

As for americanising the asian players, surely it was nothing less than an economic necessity to expect players to be able to converse with sponsors from the host nation in the same language?

The number of tournaments available on the lpga is dire but who'd a thunk the LET would have survived this long? Even though things have improved with more tournaments, I think the prize money falls away very sharply. I really don't understand how most of these girls are able to make a living even with a bit of sponsorship.

The Solheim was indeed one of the highlights of the year. Unfortunately, sponsors have short memories when it comes to the women's game.

Article from back in 2009 where Lorena O and 14 top ladies sent a letter demanding the removal of Bivens.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/lawrence-donegan-golf-blog/2009/jul/07/golf

This next link is also a bit of a joke and backs up Kwini's claim that there was indeed a 'speak and learn English' directive.

http://golfdrivingtips.net/lpga-killing-your-neighbours.php

2003
June 03, 2003|By Joe Juliano INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Grace Park watched her 18-foot par putt drop into the cup, yelled with joy, and leaped into her caddie's waiting arms, another woman from a country other than the United States to win on the LPGA Tour.

Actually, the Korean's victory, which occurred May 4 in the Michelob Light Open at Kingsmill in Williamsburg, Va., continued a rather embarrassing trend for U.S. golf. It marked the 17th consecutive LPGA event in which a player not born in the United States had finished first. At that point, U.S. representatives on tour were 0 for 2003.

I agree that they should show their personalities and cultural differences, but when that includes over-management by parents, refusal to learn the language and/or otherwise interact with the media and tournament sponsors, glacial pace of play

Agreed that they should learn the languages of wherever they reside as I find that to be general etiquette in any form of life. Over Management is a debateable thing and purely down to what the individual wants, don't think they can be knocked for that.

Also media and tournament sponsors again why should they have to conform if they don't feel comfortable doing makes no difference to the way they play. That and the fact many who do try to be media friendly fail miserably.

Pace of play, I whole agree with and that they should always keep up

gael,
It might have been a bad time for Bivents to take charge but she did some incomprehensibly daft things to dig her hole much deeper than it needed to be, the disaffecting of long-term tournament sponsors being among the most grievious.
Whang seems to be very short-term in his decision making; my jury still out as to his success, or otherwise.

Doc,
Even as recently as 2003 the Tour was reasonably healthy, Annika still around and most of the top Asian players were US educated or at least orientated; Grace Park, for instance, was quite Americanised, college at ASU etc.
I think that, if we look at the 2003 calendar, it will bear little or no resemblance to that for 2011.

Mav,
Why should I as a tournament sponsor shell out money to players who show no acknowledgement or appreciation for the largesse?

Why should I as a tournament sponsor shell out money to players who show no acknowledgement or appreciation for the largesse?

Not saying you should Kwini, but I also don't think that just because a company chooses to sponsor and event that they should be able to demand appreciation from it's players. Etiquette dictates that this is the right thing to do but it is no compulsory

Kwini

Maybe they could implement an English test and some sort of multi choice on American history and culture. Failure to pass would mean no prize money.


wonder if the Asians or US players would earn more money?

Maverick wrote:

Why should I as a tournament sponsor shell out money to players who show no acknowledgement or appreciation for the largesse?

Not saying you should Kwini, but I also don't think that just because a company chooses to sponsor and event that they should be able to demand appreciation from it's players. Etiquette dictates that this is the right thing to do but it is no compulsory

How does a certain TW fit in with this.

No doubt the Asian players would reply that Westwood, McIlroy and the others playing in Shanghai this week aren't exactly fluent in Chinese.

How does a certain TW fit in with this.

How does he fit in with anything except his ego

Last time I checked, it wasn't Asian companies that were fed up with shelling out small fortunes to ingrates.

But this thread was about the LPGA and all I'm saying is that the behaviour of a large %age of players has been a massive turn off, to sponsors, advertisers, media and fans alike.

K@S,
Some people will always be outside the margins, whether Beckham, Tiger, Winehouse, Paris Hilton, there's media ramming them down our throats seemingly every minute of the day.
But guarantee that their equivalents of almost equal achievement but less notoriety will attract no public attention whatsoever.

Mac,
Idiot Bevins did try and impose an English language criteria for membership, not a popular move and rightly so.
But you don't have to be fluent in English to be an attractive athlete in America, KJ Choi and others have proved that.
Equally, Europe finds some Americans unappreciative and unreceptive to the fans so it's certainly a two-way street.

Mav, young Mavette seems to have some potential, so from a father's point of view, knowing the decline of ladies golf over the pond, and the potential for the same thing on the ladies ET, would you be happy for the youngster to go for it, or concentrate on the education side, with golf as a hobby which could be a career, but having a fall-back?

On a lighter note though, we need to know if she's a munter and will play ET, or a MavGulbiss and go LPGA

Doc wrote:Mav, young Mavette seems to have some potential, so from a father's point of view, knowing the decline of ladies golf over the pond, and the potential for the same thing on the ladies ET, would you be happy for the youngster to go for it, or concentrate on the education side, with golf as a hobby which could be a career, but having a fall-back?

On a lighter note though, we need to know if she's a munter and will play ET, or a MavGulbiss and go LPGA

Doc to address your first point, We will support her in whatever she chooses to pursue as a career if she gets to a level where Golf is the option then she'll have our full backing whatever the state of the ladies game as her happiness comes first. That said we will also be encouraging her how important her school work is to have a fall back as there are always circumstances that will may occur to change this.

On your lighter note, may I suggest you look at signing that special register Mac is on for his young witch fetish baring in mind she is just 11years old But of course she is not a munter a picture of beauty like her mother. But beware she is banned from boys until she's 30 and certainly near no-one I know. any potential boyfriends have to pass the Mav selection process which make the SAS brecon selection process look like something a girl could pass

11 years old Mav, for heavens sake, don't let her out at the weekend dressed as a wizard.

Super

You do know Emma watson is basically the same age as me?

[quote="McLaren"]Super

You do know Emma watson is basically the same age as me?[/quote

I never knew you were 12

How old is Mac then?

I reckon Mac's age is as indeterminate as his handicap