Next England Coaches and Squad.

First topic message reminder :

If England are unable to appoint Clive Woodward as the supremo, then hopefully they will be able to get Graham Henry in there, who has expressed his interest in helping out the RFU. I honestly feel that unless England can find a high profile enough experienced replacement for Johnson, then they may have to stick with him. However I would feel that selection and overall control should be assisted by the surpremo (Woodward/Henry) If Johnson does stay then there will definitely need to be a shake up with the coaching staff. Mike Ford, Brian Smith and John Wells have to go. I don't mind Dave Aldred or Graham Rowntree staying on as they have done relatively good jobs.

I personally think there are enough talented young English coaches who can fill these roles. England are likely to choose Shaun Edwards as their first choice defence coach, however if that was to fall through I would personally go for Paul Gustard the Saracens defence coach as the second choice, he has done an outstanding job in the past couple of seasons. Forwards coach is an interesting choice and I've heard rumours England are interested in John Mallet. However I feel another young English coach Alex Sanderson of Saracens would be a quality choice, however only if Edwards was to get appointed as the defence coach, as you don't want a one club bias. Sanderson has been highly commended for the work he has done at Saracens and I feel he would gain instant respect from most of the players. Attack coach is a more difficult choice and the most obvious candidate I can think of would be Mike Catt.

Therefore if MJ stays as Head Coach I would like to see Shaun Edwards (Defence) Mike Catt (Attack) and Alex Sanderson (Forwards) replacing Ford, Smith and Wells.


Surrounding the issue of the next England squad, we have to take into consideration that players such as Steffon Armitage, Danny Cipriani, Jonny Wilkinson, Tom Palmer and James Haskell will be playing oversea's post world cup, so will not be available for selection. I would also like the England selection policy to get stricter. Meaning players such as Hendre Fourie, Shontayne Hape and Riki Flutey will no longer be viable for selection. However if the player has gone through the English age grade system (M.Tuilagi), was born in England or has an English parent or grandparents then exceptions can be made.

I also feel that the old guard needs changing, therefore players such as Moody, Easter, Shaw, Thompson, Cueto, Tindall will no longer be considered for selection. I appreciate Shaw and Moody have already retired from international rugby, however it is about starting afresh and these players represent the past rather than moving forward.

My potential EPS squad would look something like this...

BACKS

B.Foden (Northampton) M.Brown (Harlequins) C.Ashton (Northampton) C.Sharples (Gloucester) D.Armitage (L.Irish) M.Banahan (Bath) M.Tuilagi (Leicester) J.Joseph (L.Irish) B.Barritt (Saracens) O.Farrell (Saracens) T.Flood (Leicester) C.Hodgson (Saracens) B.Youngs (Leicester) D.Care (Harlequins) J.Simpson (Wasps)

FORWARDS

A.Corbisiero (L.Irish) M.Stevens (Saracens) J.Marler (Harlequins) D.Cole (Leicester) D.Hartley (Northampton) R.Webber (Wasps) D.Paice (L.Irish) C.Lawes (Northampton) D.Attwood (Bath) G.Robson (Harlequins) L.Deacon (Leicester) T.Croft (Leicester) C.Robshaw (Harlequins) T.Wood (Northampton) D.Seymour (Sale) L.Narraway (Gloucester) P.Dowson (Northampton)

*Mike Brown has been the best premiership full-back for two seasons now and is very unlucky to have Foden ahead of him in the pecking order, he deserves a place in the squad, with some fine performances for Harlequins.
*Jonathan Joseph has been in spectacular form for London Irish at outside centre this season, solid defensively with a surprising knack of winning turnovers, whilst he has pace to burn and has been compared in attacking style to Jeremy Guscott, potential star.
*O.Farrell is another potential star and has so much composure for someone so young. He is extremely talented and can play 10, 12 or even 13 to a very high standard
*J.Marler may not be the finished article in the scrum, but he can only get better with more experience. There is no doubting that he is one of the most imposing props in the loose and he is another player who would flourish in an England camp with quality coaches.
*G.Robson has been outstanding for Quins this season, he has bulked up considerably and seems to have added a bit of extra pace to his game. Authoritative in the lineout, a very good tackler and strong ball carrier. Deserves a chance.
*D.Seymour has been in tremendous form for Sale this season and is easily their stand out player. Deserves a place in the squad on form.

What do you think of my coach choices? Do you agree/disagree with my potential England squad?

"Allen and Crane are injured now but were fit and in form previously and both were overlooked despite shortages in their preferred positions."

Allen is just not powerful enough and Crane has no pace. He is even slower than Easter ffs!

Can you imagine what would happen with a backline of Lamb, Allen, Geraghty, Short, Sharples and Wade or any other U11s playing in the AP. We'd get smashed. Players like Roberts, Davies and North in Wales would be rubbing their hands together and slavering at the mouth.

That's why you need to balance it out with the likes of Barritt and Tuilagi, and getting Croft running with the ball in his hand. It's all about balance. Hape and Tindall was a big combination, but not a balanced one, especially with a lump like Banahan coming off the bench.

"Can you imagine what would happen with a backline of Lamb, Allen, Geraghty, Short, Sharples and Wade or any other U11s playing in the AP"

To be fair noone is saying play a backline like that....

Most want to see 12 Barritt 13 Tuilagi.....but if you had a centre partnership like that you could afford to play someone like lamb as a playmaker....

Indeed having a smaller guy like Allen at 12 is not a problem with Tuilagi outside him as Allen can tackle....despite the majority of this site thinking the contrary...

Very surprised more people on here arent sugesting James Simpson-Daniel for a wing berth.

I know he has his doubters and can understand why with his injury record and past defence record,but in recent seasons defence has improved massively and is easily good enough for a wing, and in attack he is electric.

Personally would love to see Strettle and JSD start on wings for England with 2 of Cueto,Ashton and Sharples joining them in the squad.

PS-I know its controversal leaving Ashton out with his try scoring record but if you watch him closely for a full match you will notice he still is learning the union code. His rucking at times is shocking giving away some criminal penalties. Also anyone who saw the try he let through at the weekend due to poor technique and concentration guarding a goaline ruck was poor. Dont know bout anyone else but if I did that at my local club on a saturday I wouldnt be looking forward to fitness the following week!!

Trouble with JSD, and I am a big fan of his, is that he is hardly an option for the future anymore. We need to think about developing players that will still be about by 2015, rather than constantly changing the squad about over the years.

JSD has had a mix of poor form and yet more injuries this season, he was playing for Gloucester A side yesterday. I think his international boat has sailed unfortunately. A real shame he never got a run of games to prove himself.

Strettle isn't top international quality, he produces some good moments but not enough and often goes missing, too prone to getting turned over and missing tackles as well.

I believe he went off injured in that A game too.

Living in NZ i don't get to watch much AP rugby so apologies if I've missed anyone out but here is who I would select for the 2012 6N squad. It may appear to be young and inexperienced and I expect them to lose the odd game but 4 years playing together and i reckon they could be a force in 2015.

Props:
Marler - excellent prospect but needs to work on his scrum
Corbisiero - still young for a prop but showed he can perform at the top level
Mullan - freakishly quick for a prop
Cole
Stevens - has to play at TH

Hookers:
Hartley - first choice for now but needs to improve
Paice - experience with Saxons
Gray - heaps of potential

Locks:
Lawes - this guy will be world class
Atwood - needs to calm down but could form great partnership with Lawes
Parling - always been excellent when i've seen him
Robson - underated and playing very well this season

Back row:
Croft - quick and athletic
Robshaw - deserves his chance and covers all of the back row
Wood - not an traditional 7 but very good in all aspects of the game
Saull/Fearns - Saull has been excellent for a couple of seasons but Fearns really impressed when i saw him and covers 8 as well
Morgan - get this lad signed up for England. He will be awesome.

Scrum half:
Youngs - needs to get over injury and rediscover form of last year
Care - can be excellent but sometimes annoys the hell out of me with his arm waving
Simpson - would scare the hell out of teams with his pace. Needs work on distribution

Fly half:
Flood - experience and still the best in England
Burns - good kicker, distribution and likes to attack

Centre:
Twelvetrees - great distribution, huuge boot and takes pressure of 10
Barritt - has to be in the squad...been best 12 in AP for 2-3 years
Tuilagi - needs no comment
Trinder - worked well with 12T for Saxons. Pace, good defence and attacks the line

Wing:
Ashton - try machine and still learning the game
Sharples - rapid...just a great player
Wade - freakishly quick and skilful...reminds me of a young Jason Robinson
Short - haven't seen much but heard great things about him

Full back:
Foden - first name on the team sheet
Goode - excellent all round skills just needs consistency

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Threadbare? Apart from TH Leicester still had a team that, on paper, should have been able to give anyone a game.

What no tight head, no number 8, captain/vice captain/pack leader/back up vice captain all at RWC or injured and 2nd choice squad players/academy players including an 18 year old fly half is the basis of every successful team in the AP?

Here's the Leicester side humiliated by Sarries at home:

Hamilton, Smith, Twelvetrees, Allen, Morris, Ford, Grindal, Stankovich, Chuter, Holford, Slater, Kitchener, Mafi, Woods, Salvi,

Yes no TH (as I said, although the rest of the front row isn't far off first choice), but there's no excuse for that group to ship 50 points at home - there's plenty of quality and plenty of experience there.

king_carlos wrote:Very surprised more people on here arent sugesting James Simpson-Daniel for a wing berth.

I know he has his doubters and can understand why with his injury record and past defence record,but in recent seasons defence has improved massively and is easily good enough for a wing, and in attack he is electric.

It's because most fans on here want the England team to be full of players playing well, and selected entirely on merit. Is JS-D currently a form winger in the Premiership?

Bigyak wrote:Full back:
Foden - first name on the team sheet
Goode - excellent all round skills just needs consistency

I also rate Goode, but I don't think I'd select him over Mike Brown at the moment. Very different type of player, but the way Quins are using Brown right now is very effective. Close call though, I really like Goode's ability to be both strike runner and playmaker from 15. On form right now, I'd say Brown sneaks it.

Yes no TH (as I said, although the rest of the front row isn't far off first choice), but there's no excuse for that group to ship 50 points at home - there's plenty of quality and plenty of experience there..

There is no excuse for shipping 50 points and never will be but the number of first team starting players in that starting line up. 3? Chuter, Salvi and Allen/Twelvetrees (one of the other would play).

Bigyak I like your list.

Bigyak, that's quite an inexperienced front row. I'd perhaps bring in another specialist tighthead able of covering loosehead just for cover (either Wilson or PDJ) and drop one of Marler or Mullan. As you are always more likely to sub your tighthead and there is only one prop space on the bench.

I'd probabley include Easter on the bench as well.

What I always think Englands biggest problem since 2003 has been is that they (media, management and the fans) are unwilling to let players make mistakes and learn from then.

England has such a depth in most positions. There are usually about 5-6 players per position who are all around the same level of ability. Thats the advantage of the EPS I always thought it - it ensured that a squad would develop more.

The problem is Stag that having too many players means players become "flavour of the month" so to speak.

And you can see on this site alone the debates it causes....

Stag

I agree with you but this is why we need consistency in our EPS so they have chance to develop more individually and as a group. Whether through inconsistency or faith in wrong players this has not happened though.

To people having the usual drop anyone old enough to have chest hair post RWC ideas,yes we have talent and need changes, but if we threw out half the sides people on here post against the likes of NZ in the Autumn they would get decimated and many of these talented players would go backwards.

Re Simpson Daniel

Yes he's out of form but returning from injury this was bound to happen. A player of his quality will always find form when fully fit,the fact that he's kept a high profile whilst constantly being hampered by injury shows that quality. As for age he's still only 29 so can obviously reach the next RWC. He made an impact so early people often forget that he's still quite young really,for instance he's almost 3 years younger than Cueto and many here (including myself!) dont see him to old to be in the squad.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
There is no excuse for shipping 50 points and never will be but the number of first team starting players in that starting line up. 3? Chuter, Salvi and Allen/Twelvetrees (one of the other would play).

Leicester were still able to put plenty of players onto the pitch who have featured regularly for the Tigers in recent years:

Hamilton, Smith, Allen, Grindal, Stankovich, Chuter, Slater, Mafi, Woods, Salvi.

Add in the regular England Saxons Twelvetrees and Kitchener, one of the most talented young players in world rugby (Ford) and the side just isn't that bad. Leicester knew the WC was coming and had a deep squad in place. What went wrong I'm not sure, but it seems to have continued going wrong so maybe there's something slightly more fundamental going on.

king_carlos wrote:Stag

I agree with you but this is why we need consistency in our EPS so they have chance to develop more individually and as a group. Whether through inconsistency or faith in wrong players this has not happened though.

To people having the usual drop anyone old enough to have chest hair post RWC ideas,yes we have talent and need changes, but if we threw out half the sides people on here post against the likes of NZ in the Autumn they would get decimated and many of these talented players would go backwards.

Re Simpson Daniel

Yes he's out of form but returning from injury this was bound to happen. A player of his quality will always find form when fully fit,the fact that he's kept a high profile whilst constantly being hampered by injury shows that quality. As for age he's still only 29 so can obviously reach the next RWC. He made an impact so early people often forget that he's still quite young really,for instance he's almost 3 years younger than Cueto and many here (including myself!) dont see him to old to be in the squad.

JSD is an interesting one

I have always rated him, the only player who can run fast sideways, but is it just injury that has mean't he never got his fare shout or is he not up to it at that level, not sure why but i think there is more to his continued failure at top level than injury

Leicester knew the WC was coming and had a deep squad in place. What went wrong I'm not sure

What went wrong? Injuries. The late call up of Waldrom was a kick in the teeth as it was by then too late to get someone else in. A team missing 21 players is always going to struggle to compete, especially when 4 of those players are tighthead props. Doesn't help that some serious freshening of the squad is under way (more is needed) and Tigers don't accept the concept of a squad being under construction.