Who has the best under 25 team?

I think this will have some bearing on form over the next 5 years or so. I think what Gatland has done with Wales is exceptional. He has amassed a very competitive team mainly built of very young players. What better way to develop a squad than to keep the same group of players for as long as possible. I think Wales have just been very lucky that some of the "extremely" young players have been outstanding. Never again will I want to see experience over age. Priestland put Jones and Hook to shame. Faletau put Ryan Jones to shame. Warburton put Martyn Williams to shame etc etc...

Pick a starting XV of players from your country currently aged 25 or younger and let's debate which one is the best or going to develop into the best.

WALES XV

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. George North
13. Jon Davies
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Aled Brew
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Lloyd Williams
8. Toby Faletau
7. Sam Warburton
6. Dan Lydiate
5. Aaron Shingler or equivalent
4. Bradley Davies
3. Craig Mitchell
2. Ken Owens
1. Ryan Bevington

PLAYERS AGED 25-30 who have a few years left

James Hook
Alun-Wyn Jones
Huw Bennett
Richard Hibbard
Gavin Henson
Mike Phillips
Gethin Jenkins
Andy Powell
Ryan Jones
Luke Charteris

So Wales almost have a first choice XV from players aged 25 or younger. This combined with some of the awesome older talent that still has a few years left plus the youth coming through says to me that this will be a very competitive gelled unit for years to come.

Wales do not have the problem of the majority of their best players past 30 or close to retirement. England winning the world cup was obviously an amazing achievement for them, but there was clearly no squad rotation or enough quality younger players coming through to cover retirements and they paid for it big time. Other than reaching the 2007 final, England didn't win a competition for 8 years after winning a world cup.

Something is clearly wrong when you win the greatest rugby competition on earth, but then nothing for 8 years. I can't imaging New Zealand not winning a tri nations or UK grandslam for another 8 years.

i think you are underestimating a world cup win.

its the pinnacle, if you put all your efforts into winning it and then win it- dont sniff at it pal, if you loose form after it it will never take away the fact that it was won.

england have the depth and the talent at lower age levels- we need to sort out where they are all going and how to get them to move forward.

but you need to realise that a world cup is the be all and end all

basically the simple point i am trying to make is that if england had looked into a world cup 2007 in 2003 and played younger players that wernt as good we wouldnt have won in 2003.

take the chances when you have them, dont allways look on a bright side and compare any possible scenario with an england problem.

your players could be ready for a good 2015, but your gonna max them out then,(at perhaps the cost of the following years) your not gonna think about 2019 in 2015, and your not gonna look at 2023 while playing 2019.

the kiwis are a different beast to the rest of us, and it would take a monumental effort to match there standard year in year out if not impossible- and as we all know they havent acheved enough in world cups as they possible could have.

your view of england not doing much for 8 years after a wc win isnt as relevant as nz not wiining a world cup for 24 years even though they had the form, and the fact of the matter is england had a final in 2007, and could have won without losing a 50/50 decision(try)

mystiroakey wrote:
england have the depth and the talent at lower age levels- we need to sort out where they are all going and how to get them to move forward.

Correct.

These guys are all 25 and younger. With the exception of lock, these guys all show promise to wear the Springbok jumper.

1. Coenie Oosthuizen, 22 years old, 1.83 metres and 127kg’s
2. Deon Fourie, 25 years old, 1.77 metres, 100kg’s
3. Pat Cilliers , 24 years old, 1.85 metres, 110 kg’s
4. Allister Hargreaves, 25 years old, 2.01 metres, 114 kg’s
5. De Kock steenkamp, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 108 kg’s
6. Heinrich Brussow, 25 years old, 1.81 metres, 104 kg’s
7. Michael Rhodes, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 114 kg’s
8. Joshua Strauss, 25 years old, 1.93 metres, 115 kg’s
9. Francois Hougaard, 23 years old, 1.79 metres, 90 kg’s
10. Patrick Lambie, 21 years old, 1.77 metres, 90 kg’s
11. JJ Engelbrecht, 21 years old, 1.90 metres, 91 kg’s
12. Frans Steyn, 24 years old, 1.92 metres, 110 kg’s
13. Alwyn Hollenbach, 22 years old, 1.86 metres, 95kg’s
14. JP Pietersen, 25 years old, 1.84 metres, 102 kg’s
15. Jaco Taute, 20 years old, 1.87 metres, 95 kg’s

These guys should all still be around for the next world cup and are older than 25.
Beast Mtwarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Andries Bekker, Schalk Burger, Jean Deysel, Willem Alberts, Pierre Spies, Morne Steyn.

There are a bunch of other youngsters who can still make name for themselves, but these would be my guess for springbok honours.

How old is Ian Evans at the O's and will he ever make it or have injury free season?

Guy has huge potential but should have established himself by now I feel.

For Ireland U25 I'd say:

01 Cian Healy
02 Sean Cronin
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Devin Toner
05 Ian Nagle
06 Sean O'Brien
07 Peter O'Mahony
08 Rhys Ruddock
09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Keith Earls
12 Fergus McFadden
13 Nevin Spence
14 Rob Kearney
15 Felix Jones

26-29 we have Rory Best, Donnacha Ryan, Stephen Ferris, Jamie Heaslip, Denis Leamy, Tomas O'Leary, Jonathan Sexton, Tommy Bowe and Andrew Trimble.

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Attwood
6. Croft
7. Wood/Robshaw
8. ??? Morgan maybe?

9. Youngs
10. Ford (Not actually the best I think, but the most exciting prospect)
11. Sharples
12. Allen
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

Surprised to see Hartley U25 thought he was older foe some reason

tomathy wrote:1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Attwood
6. Croft
7. Wood/Robshaw
8. ??? Morgan maybe?

9. Youngs
10. Ford (Not actually the best I think, but the most exciting prospect)
11. Sharples
12. Allen
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

surprised they are all under 25 , all household names

On the Morgan issue when does he qualify for us on residency, could Gatland call him up for the Australia game if he wishes?

I dont think that Wales are alone in having stand out players under 25. Many teams have them as well, its more about the competition for spots and strength in depth that will be a deciding factor for years to come.

Its way too early to say just how any team will develope in regards to the next RWC as 4 years is a long time and loads can happen in that time.

It seems that the Welsh and Irish youngsters are getting more exposure to the top maybe through neccessity, certainly in terms of the Dragons and Scarlets and the policy used by the Provinces that they tend not to use their big guns in the first part of the domestic season.

mystiroakey wrote:

tomathy wrote:1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Attwood
6. Croft
7. Wood/Robshaw
8. ??? Morgan maybe?

9. Youngs
10. Ford (Not actually the best I think, but the most exciting prospect)
11. Sharples
12. Allen
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

surprised they are all under 25 , all household names

well, 25 or under. Haskell and Flood are each 26 as well.

bedfordwelsh wrote:On the Morgan issue when does he qualify for us on residency, could Gatland call him up for the Australia game if he wishes?

I believe it's just before the six nations. His wikipedia has him listed as scarlets from 2009 onwards, so that would fit as well.

the future looks fine lets be honest

bedfordwelsh wrote:On the Morgan issue when does he qualify for us on residency, could Gatland call him up for the Australia game if he wishes?

I don't think he qualifies until January or February. Whether he'd even get near the Wales team, now that Faletau has proven himself more than worthy, is another matter and if he goes for England after all he'd still be behind 2 or 3 other players for the 8 berth. I can't help feeling that whoever caps him first will do so just to stop the other having him.

mystiroakey wrote:the future looks fine lets be honest

Front row looks a bit light, but that can change fast. I'd back Sheridan, Thompson and Cole to get the better of any front row in the scrum, but Corbisiero and Hartley aren't there yet. They might be soon though though. I really hope Marler can sort out his scrum problems, because in general play he's as good as pretty much any loosehead. He's still only 21 though, which is ludicrously young for a prop to be that good.

Turkster wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:On the Morgan issue when does he qualify for us on residency, could Gatland call him up for the Australia game if he wishes?

I don't think he qualifies until January or February. Whether he'd even get near the Wales team, now that Faletau has proven himself more than worthy, is another matter and if he goes for England after all he'd still be behind 2 or 3 other players for the 8 berth. I can't help feeling that whoever caps him first will do so just to stop the other having him.

Turkster,

I think Gatland would be mad not to cap him as soon as he is eligable, yes Tpby had great WC but look how complacent R Jones got when he knew there was no other viable option.

It's all about strength in depth and Faletau and Morgan keeping each other on their toes for years to come would be huge for us.

I'd have no problem at all with Morgan choosing to play for Wales if he wants to, but I hope that it puts an end to a lot of the criticism of England picking guys through residency.

all rugby fans that have a pop at england for the 'poaching' only have to look at themselves, its all hypocrsy, every team does it or has done it in the past

I just realised that Foden is 26. Replace with Brown/Goode at your preference.

tom,

Ignore them, I have said time and time again that we all as bad as each other.

Some Welsh fans have conveniently forgot about the likes of Jones Hughes, Luscombe, Marinos, Howarth, Sinkinson, Moon and Copsey.

If the rules allow it then I not got problem with it, I do however have problem with the rules themselves.

Topics like this are so transparently desperate in their attempt to search for approval and praise for a team. A bit pathetic and needy to be honest.

gelodge wrote:Topics like this are so transparently desperate in their attempt to search for approval and praise for a team. A bit pathetic and needy to be honest.

i think you hjave just summed up 90% of this rugby forum and posters in fairness

tomathy wrote:1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Attwood
6. Croft
7. Wood/Robshaw
8. ??? Morgan maybe?

9. Youngs
10. Ford (Not actually the best I think, but the most exciting prospect)
11. Sharples
12. Allen
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

Or

01. Joe Marler (21) - Called up to England
02. Joe Gray (23) - Saxons
03. Kieran Brookes (21) - Saxons
04. Graham Kitchener- (22) - Saxons
05. Ed Slater (23) - Started off as injury cover and forced his way into a fixture in the Leicester boiler room.
06. Calum Clarke (22) - Saxons
07. Jamie Gibson (21) - Saxons
08. Carl Fearns (22)- Saxons

09. Danny Care (24) 32 senior caps
10. Danny Cipriani (23) 7 Senior Caps
11. Charlie Sharples (22) 1 senior Cap
12. Jordan Turner-Hall (23) 2 senior non capped games
13. Dominic Waldouck (24) Saxon and England squad member
14. Matt Banahan (24) 16 Senior Caps
15. Alex Goode (23) Saxon, but it’s only a matter of time before he’s capped in the seniors

gelodge wrote:Topics like this are so transparently desperate in their attempt to search for approval and praise for a team. A bit pathetic and needy to be honest.

Whereas you are a complete dude for point that out right?

Cumbrian

All exciting players who could be very good. They'd get absolutely mauled right now though. I'd put Lowe in that team ahead of Waldouck (nothing at all to do with the Harlequins flag above my username), and Robson has been really good for us as well.

Yeah, as a team they'd definitely get mauled at the moment, but I was looking at players who I feel could slot into an established team without too much trouble (without using the players you'd used).

I'd agree that Lowe (Henry Trinder too) is ahead of Waldouck, but I was including players that have already had some kind of international representation. George Robson would be in the EPS if I was selecting it, but he's 25 so I wasn't sure whether to include him.

England's biggest problem is not talent but management, directly comparable to Wales biggest achievement, the English camp has failed to maintain a core of experience whilst bringing on the new talent. The core seems to be crumbling and certainly barely picking itself.

If you look at England 1-15 how many shirts can you say pick themselves?

Youngs possibly, Flood now JW is gone, probably Cole Croft and Haskell, Ashton, Tuilagi and Foden.

Now apart from Flood who i think is the best of a bad lot, you have 5 or 6 players nailed on. There is far too much inconsistency in selection, almost an embarassment of riches but not the wherewithall, from top to bottom of the management team, to pick a consistent side.

Wales on the other hand have successfully introduced a young tranche of players while maintaining core strength and a largely consistent selection across the board. We have a smaller talent pool to select from and whilst this brings limitations it also means the 'team' moulds itself into a unit, this is the core of teamwork; the best 15 players do not always make the best team.

1. Lewis Niven (Ryan Grant is only just 26, and looks very promising)
2. Pat MacArthur
3. Jon Welsh/Kyle Traynor
4. Richie Gray
5. Tom Ryder/Fraser McKenzie
6. Rob Harley
7. John Barclay/Roddy Grant/Chris Fusaro
8. Richie Vernon/David Denton

9. Alex Black
10. Duncan Weir/Ruaridh Jackson/Scott Wight/Greg Hunter/Harry Leonard (5? I'm at 5? Am I dreaming??)
11. Tim Visser
12. Mark Bennett
13. Joe Ansbro/Matt Scott
14. Lee Jones/Tommy Seymour
15. Stuart Hogg

I was pleasantly surprised when I produced this, with the only area where I struggled being in the front row, and hooker in particular. It's worth noting though that Ross Ford is only 27 (despite already having a half-century of Scotland caps), so we're not struggling too much.

I'm particularly happy with our back line which, on this season's evidence, is not short of pace and try potential. Anyone watching Weir's bursts of pace on Friday night against the O's will be licking his lips. Get him in a Scotland shirt NOW.

It's worth pointing out that the vast majority of these players haven't yet been capped by Scotland, and there's an argument to be made for cutting out a load of the dead wood in the current Scotland squad, particularly in the backs (I'm looking at Parks, Morrison, and (strike me down.) Paterson in particular) and fielding a very young team.

We'll definitely struggle for a couple of seasons, but at least we'll end up with a tranche of players in the prime of their careers, already with 20-odd caps, and used to playing together.

biltongbek wrote:These guys are all 25 and younger. With the exception of lock, these guys all show promise to wear the Springbok jumper.

1. Coenie Oosthuizen, 22 years old, 1.83 metres and 127kg’s
2. Deon Fourie, 25 years old, 1.77 metres, 100kg’s
3. Pat Cilliers , 24 years old, 1.85 metres, 110 kg’s
4. Allister Hargreaves, 25 years old, 2.01 metres, 114 kg’s
5. De Kock steenkamp, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 108 kg’s
6. Heinrich Brussow, 25 years old, 1.81 metres, 104 kg’s
7. Michael Rhodes, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 114 kg’s
8. Joshua Strauss, 25 years old, 1.93 metres, 115 kg’s
9. Francois Hougaard, 23 years old, 1.79 metres, 90 kg’s
10. Patrick Lambie, 21 years old, 1.77 metres, 90 kg’s
11. JJ Engelbrecht, 21 years old, 1.90 metres, 91 kg’s
12. Frans Steyn, 24 years old, 1.92 metres, 110 kg’s
13. Alwyn Hollenbach, 22 years old, 1.86 metres, 95kg’s
14. JP Pietersen, 25 years old, 1.84 metres, 102 kg’s
15. Jaco Taute, 20 years old, 1.87 metres, 95 kg’s

Holy sh!t, is Steenkamp only 24?

For the Wobs:

1. Slipper, James (22)
2. Hanson, James (23)
3. Palmer, Dan (23)
4. Douglas, Kane (22)
5. Simmons, Rob (22)
6. Higginbotham, Scott (25)
7. Pocock, David (c) (23)
8. McCalman, Ben (23)
9. Genia, Will (vc) (23)
10. Cooper, Quade (23)
11. O'Connor, James (21)
12. Barnes, Berrick (25)
13. Horne, Rob (22)
14. Morahan, Luke (21)
15. Beale, Kurtley (22)

16. Charles, Nathan (22)
17. Daley, Ben (23)
18. Timani, Sitaleki (25)
19. Wykes, Sam (23)
20. Turner, Justin (21)
21. Toomua, Matt (21)
22. McCabe, Pat (23)

We really only have half a good under 25's team at the moment, but it's encourging that it wouldnt really be weakened much if you dropped the cutoff to 23. The ones Im hoping come on next year are Hansen, Douglas, Morahan and Toomua, plus we need some of the young backrowers around to make the grade. Ben Tapuai (22) who played 12 for the reds in the S15 final will hopefully challenge next year as well after a couple of good showings for the A team.

George Carlin wrote:

biltongbek wrote:These guys are all 25 and younger. With the exception of lock, these guys all show promise to wear the Springbok jumper.

1. Coenie Oosthuizen, 22 years old, 1.83 metres and 127kg’s
2. Deon Fourie, 25 years old, 1.77 metres, 100kg’s
3. Pat Cilliers , 24 years old, 1.85 metres, 110 kg’s
4. Allister Hargreaves, 25 years old, 2.01 metres, 114 kg’s
5. De Kock steenkamp, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 108 kg’s
6. Heinrich Brussow, 25 years old, 1.81 metres, 104 kg’s
7. Michael Rhodes, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 114 kg’s
8. Joshua Strauss, 25 years old, 1.93 metres, 115 kg’s
9. Francois Hougaard, 23 years old, 1.79 metres, 90 kg’s
10. Patrick Lambie, 21 years old, 1.77 metres, 90 kg’s
11. JJ Engelbrecht, 21 years old, 1.90 metres, 91 kg’s
12. Frans Steyn, 24 years old, 1.92 metres, 110 kg’s
13. Alwyn Hollenbach, 22 years old, 1.86 metres, 95kg’s
14. JP Pietersen, 25 years old, 1.84 metres, 102 kg’s
15. Jaco Taute, 20 years old, 1.87 metres, 95 kg’s

Holy sh!t, is Steenkamp only 24?

George, you not perhaps thinking of gurthro Steenkamp? He is 30 or 31 years old.

biltongbek wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

biltongbek wrote:These guys are all 25 and younger. With the exception of lock, these guys all show promise to wear the Springbok jumper.

1. Coenie Oosthuizen, 22 years old, 1.83 metres and 127kg’s
2. Deon Fourie, 25 years old, 1.77 metres, 100kg’s
3. Pat Cilliers , 24 years old, 1.85 metres, 110 kg’s
4. Allister Hargreaves, 25 years old, 2.01 metres, 114 kg’s
5. De Kock steenkamp, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 108 kg’s
6. Heinrich Brussow, 25 years old, 1.81 metres, 104 kg’s
7. Michael Rhodes, 24 years old, 1.97 metres, 114 kg’s
8. Joshua Strauss, 25 years old, 1.93 metres, 115 kg’s
9. Francois Hougaard, 23 years old, 1.79 metres, 90 kg’s
10. Patrick Lambie, 21 years old, 1.77 metres, 90 kg’s
11. JJ Engelbrecht, 21 years old, 1.90 metres, 91 kg’s
12. Frans Steyn, 24 years old, 1.92 metres, 110 kg’s
13. Alwyn Hollenbach, 22 years old, 1.86 metres, 95kg’s
14. JP Pietersen, 25 years old, 1.84 metres, 102 kg’s
15. Jaco Taute, 20 years old, 1.87 metres, 95 kg’s

Holy sh!t, is Steenkamp only 24?

George, you not perhaps thinking of gurthro Steenkamp? He is 30 or 31 years old.

Just checking.

A french team made of players aged 25 or less may even look somewhat familiar, except for the props and locks

1. Rabah Slimani
2. Guilhem Guirado
3. Clement Ric
4. Johann Maestri
5. Ruslan Boukerou
6. Alexandre Lapandry
7. Fulgence Ouedraogo
8. Lois Picamoles
9. Morgan Parra
10. François Trihn Duc
11. Alexis Palisson
12. Maxime Mermoz
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
14. Benjamin Fall
15. Maxime Medard[/b]

Subs (under 25), to pick among Jean-Philippe Genevois, Mikale ivaldi, Yvan Watremez, Mickael de Marco, Wenceslas Lauret, Antoine Burban, Rafael Lakafia, Jean-Marc Doussain, Yann David, Henry Chavancy, Geoffrey Doumayrou, Yoann Huget

(in bold : allready capped players)

Some other capped players are only 26 :
Thomas Domingo, Jerome Schuster, Loic Jacquet, Marc Andreu, Jerome Porical, Julien Tomas, ....

add other 26 years old Aliki Fakate (lock), Yoann Montes (prop), Jonathan Wisniewski (fly-half)

and others have still some good years left
Dusautoir (29), , Barcella (27), Szarzewski (28), v), Ducalcon (27), Milo-Chluski (28), ...

1 Ben Franks
2 Fellow kiwis please help me out
3 Owen Franks
4 See 2
5 Sam Whitelock
6 Luke Whitelock (apparently the best of the four Whitelocks and the youngest)
7 Matt Todd
8 Victor Vito
9 TJ Perenara
10 Aaron Cruden
11 Zac Guildford
12 Rhys Llewellyn (just to infuriate the Welsh! Seems he's turned his back on them?)
13 Robbie Fruean
14 Julian Savea
15 Israel Dagg

ahh chewed, thats right, throw your'poaching'selves in our face

those french and nz squads look pretty scary.

Someone has said on these boards before that England's problem is that they have loads and loads of good players. So many that it's hard to choose which ones will turn into great players.

Players then get dropped easily because there is always the next big thing waiting in the wings - who then has exactly the same problem. Smaller nations HAVE to trust that the good players they have will turn into great ones as there are fewer options. They therefore stick with them a bit and low and behold they turn into great players.

England need to look at how South Africa do things as they are the only ones with comparable playing numbers. What makes them so consistently, so much better than us?

France also would have England's problem.. and they are making the same mistakes, as mad Marc just picked radically different teams each time they played. He had no idea what his best 15 was but he never seemed to try and settle the team. The coaches need to pick their choices and stick to them.

Also, I think the coaches should pick the most consistently good and solid players over the ones who may have flashes of brilliance but are prone to making mistakes. Especially in the specialist positions like 2, 8, 9, 10 and 15.

England/France/every team should focus on picking consistent, cool-headed and solid players in these positions I believe.

screamingaddabs wrote:Someone has said on these boards before that England's problem is that they have loads and loads of good players. So many that it's hard to choose which ones will turn into great players.

England need to look at how South Africa do things as they are the only ones with comparable playing numbers. What makes them so consistently, so much better than us?

It was myself and Red Stag that mentioned the conundrum with too many players and not enough sticking out.

As far as Sa is concernd there is a simple reason for why we can more easily identify our 2 or 3 standouts per position.

We have only 5 super Franchises, thus the franchises already do the buying and culling of those that are stand out sand those that don't make the cut.

But how does England have that opportunity with 12 teams?

England have some pretty good options but could do with a really top quality lineout lock emerging (maybe Landsbury?) as other than Robson and Parling there isn't a bountiful amount of options under 30 and those under 30 are not in their early 20s.

England
1.Corbisiero
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Robson (25 until Friday)
6.Croft
7.Robshaw
8.Crane
9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Short
12.Farrell
13.Manu
14.Ashton
15.Foden

formerly known as Sam wrote:England have some pretty good options but could do with a really top quality lineout lock emerging (maybe Landsbury?) as other than Robson and Parling there isn't a bountiful amount of options under 30 and those under 30 are not in their early 20s.

England
1.Corbisiero
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Robson (25 until Friday)
6.Croft
7.Robshaw
8.Crane
9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Short
12.Farrell
13.Manu
14.Ashton
15.Foden

Not sure, but I think Launchbury he is going to be more a bruising enforce type lock, he’s only 20 and is over 18st! He is an exciting prospect though, he’s strong and abrasive so can break tackles, but has a huge amount of athleticism too. I’d stick my neck out and say that he definitely has what it takes to potentially be a Lion in the future.

Doesn’t solve the lineout technician problem though, does it? I’ve heard good things about Dominic Barrow the England U18 captain (and I’d put money on being the U20 captain too) who runs the age grade lineouts, still far too early to really look at him though. Still the likes of Geoff Parling and George Robson are playing the best rugby of their careers and have at least 4,5 or 6 years of top level rugby ahead of them, it should be okay.

England has a very good record at Under 20 level,and A team level,only NZ arguably a better one.BUT they have in infrastructure form about 5 upwards.SA something similar.
Winning a RWC is not the be all and end all unlike some think,England 1999 spawned England 2003.
Wales failure 2003 and 2007,were compensated by Grand Slams 2005 and 2008.
All Blacks failures 1995-2007 earned them the chokers tags,despite them ramming the words down the teeth of sides mocking them.
RWC traditionally are the time when most teams lose players,NZ have lost about 20 around the squad.BUT only 3 from RWC squad,SA maybe 7 or 8,
Australia none.England about half a dozen,Wales very few,Ireland had a
pretty old squad.and so on.
Only 4 sides have won a RWC only 5 Contested a title,BUT that does`nt mean the rest are inferior.
I expect both Wales and England [after RFU is sorted] to be formidable come the 6Ns.
The 4Ns is wide open After Surgery and rest to Slade,Carter,and McCaw the All Blacks with there depth under new Management will be building for 2015

Actually picking on current ability rather than potential I'd change my 10/12 axis to Clegg/Barritt over Ford/Farrell.

I thought Launchbury called the lineouts at the JWC? Enforcers can call the lineout (Deacon did in the 6N and RWC) but I think Launchbury is more likely to be in the new big athletic lock blur somewhere between the two traditional roles of enforcer and lineout operator.

I was under the impression that it was Charlie Matthews calling the lineouts, could be wrong though. You could be right that Launchbury blurs the lines, he's certainly got the athleticism to fulfill the role. It will be interesting to see how he develops.

Having good lineout operators in the backrow like Croft or Wood should help England too.

I think saying that Faletau put Ryan to shame seems a tad harsh! I thought mr. Jones played very well. I did see Faletau make a couple of errors, so we need to keep it real. I think the best thing we (wales) have seen is Priestland! And that hurts being an osprey supporter

I'm hoping the Turks don't have their Welsh boys back for Saturday or it could get ugly. I'd rather we had an entertaining game of youngsters with a sound thrashing of the Turks

Charteris, our back row combo and Priestland were the real bonuses for me this WC.

That said I think R Jones had a very good tournament and still has role to play within the Welsh squad.