The Wales A Team debate.

All this talk about young players coming through has got me thinking about the Wales A team. The sooner it's brought back, the better.
It seems that the step up from regional rugby/Wales u20's to the senior national team is a huge one and that some players are lacking the development that an A team would provide to take them to the next level. Dan Biggar being a good example.
Also players such as Jason Tovey would benefit greatly from an 'A' team with a chance to prove themselves in prehaps what would be a better team (in this example, behind a stronger pack).
The only problems seem to be whether or not we have the strength in depth to have a decent A team and whether or not the regions would be able to cope with the absence of even more players during the international window.

Assuming that the Wales 22 is something along the lines of:
1.G.Jenkins
2.M.Rees
3.A.Jones
4.A.W.Jones
5.L.Charteris
6.D.Lydiate
7.S.Warburton
8.T.Faletau
9.M.Phillips
10.R.Priestland
11.G.North
12.J.Roberts
13.J.Davies
14.M.Stoddart - 15 cover
15.L.Halfpenny - 14 cover

16.H.Bennet
17.P.James
18.B.Davies
19.R.Jones - back 5 cover
20.L.Williams
21.S.Jones
22.J.Hook - 12/13/15 cover

There's still a large pool of players of varying quality and experience left out, infact enough to form at least two full 22's. For example an inexperienced A team such as:

1.R.Bevington
2.L.Burns
3.S.Andrews
4.L.Reed
5.D.Day
6.J.King - Back 5 cover
7.J.Tipuric*
8.B.Morgan**
9.R.Webb
10.M.Morgan
11.H.Dirksen**
12.A.Warren
13.G.Maul
14.H.Robinson
15.M.Thomas

16.K.Owens*
17.S.Gardiner
18.J.Turnbull* - Back 5 cover
19.J.Navidi
20.G.Davies
21.J.Tovey - Fullback/10 cover
22.A.Beck

*Capped
**Qualify within next 12 months

Or a rather more experienced team of players that have been in and around the first team in the past such as:

1.C.Mitchell
2.R.Hibbard
3.B.Broster
4.I.Gough - (Lack of depth here)
5.I.Evans
6.R.McCusker
7.G.Thomas
8.G.Delve
9.T.Knoyle
10.D.Biggar
11.A.Brew
12.S.Williams - Could swap with J.Hook
13.A.Bishop
14.T.Prydie - 15 cover
15.L.Byrne

16.J.Yapp
17.L.Burns
18.J.Thomas - 6/8/4/5 cover
19.A.Powell - 6/8 cover
20.R.Rees
21.N.Robinson - 10/12 cover
22.T.James

Obviously a real A team would be a balance of both, acting as both a proving ground and stepping stone in equal measure. However the point is that the players are there. But do you think that your region would be able to survive with out these players for significant chunks of the season?

Using the player's I've suggested as a guide, each region would lose the following amount of players in addition to the players in the first 22.
Ospreys - 14
Scarlets - 13
Blues - 6
Dragons - 5

Also what would your A team look like and would they be able to compete with the likes of the Saxons and the Wolfhounds?
Or is it not really worth having one at all?

It'd be a great addition I think, but there's no way we can't schedule it the same weekend as Internationals/Rabo fixtures. We just won't be able to cope with that. Why not scrap the LV and play then?

Mitchell at loosehead? We need to develop THs!

An A side is a much needed addition to our plans. There was word it was coming back last season is that still happening?

NOt sure I agree with a number of your first team but My A side at the moment would be,

1. Ryan Bevvington
2. Hibbard or Bennett depends on who is backup to Rees
3. Craig Mitchell
4. L Reed
5. Ian Evans
6. McCusker
7. Tipuric
8. Morgan if he opts for us Turnbull if not
9. Rhys Webb
10. Tovey
11. Liam Williams
12. Gareth Maule
13. A Bishop
14. Cuthbert
15. Fish or Prydie

16. C Griffiths
17. Owens
18. D Day
19. Navidi
20. Wayne Evans
21. Biggar
22. Czjekai

I like both your mooted XV's (though I did think Curly's could have used more Blues - like Cuthbert and Fish - and isn't Pretorious and Patterson potentially WQ in the future?)

I heard last year that they were going to bring it back too Tycroes, but a quick Google shows that article last year as the most recent piece I could find on it (from Aug 2010). As I recall (but could be wrong) wasn't it suggested to play friendlies between international windows, so that the regions wouldn't be hit and youngsters kept out of the team by Internationals (Prydie, S Williams, Tipuric, Navidi, Owens for example) would get a chance to play more competitive rugby.

I think this would be a good idea, but haven't heard anymore on it, we are def starting to produce the talent to compete IMO.

Draig, doing away with the LV= cup would free up the time, but then the youngsters wouldn't get as much regional game time.. Unless doing this means they get more exposure to league games which would be much more benificail. Mitchell at TH was a mistake on mty part.

My knowledge on the Blues youngsters isn't great but Cuthbert has been looking sharp lately and was player of the tournament in the last 7's world cup, definate one to watch.

Interested to see that you think Ben Morgan would be happy to accept a Wales 'A' berth but turned down a Saxon's place.

I thought, like a few here, that an 'A' side would be coming back.

Would be good for them to get in the churchill cup but also face teams like russia, romania, georgia and tier 3 nations. Gives the boys experience but also teams like georgia and russia get to play against decent opposition and help them develop/

I thought, but don't know much about the other home nations A sides, that the other homes nations A sides always played the 2nd tier European sides, and these along with USA/Canada are where most of their fixtures come from, besides the A 6Nations.

Or am I wrong?

I assumed the home nations a sides (saxons, ireland a etc) play in the churchill cup every year? Might be wrong, it's not well publicised.

Also remember that when the 6 nations are on there are also U20 internationals so the regions would also lose those players.

I just dont see the regions being able to do it. Lose 46 players plus their U20's who have all being doing admirable back up work at the regions during the WC.

There would be no one left at the regions.

I think an A side is a good idea but only if there are no regional games at all during international windows otherwise we are spreading ourselves too thin.

Churchill Cup doesn't exist anymore. When it did it included England Saxons, USA and Canada + 3 invited sides. Either A teams or full sides depending on the nation (Italy and Argentina A sides but Tonga and Georgia). As I said it was the last year this year.

Also A sides don't tend to include players from out side 22, it's outside the squad of 30+ (no reason why you could do this of course). With the reintroduction of 'proper' tours there should be midweek games for the fringe players.

This has been my soap box for years and the fact that we are one of the only top sides without an A Side, even Italy have one.

people have been saying there isn't the depth which even a few years back I never agreed with now that cannot be used as an excuse as be have to a degree an embarrassment of riches with all the kids coming through the Regions.

I would much rather have our A Side re-instated than have our 7's team globe trotting all over the world which isn't cheap I guess.

From a purely selfish POV I also loved the Friday night A games before the main match up on the Saturday.

I think the best way to make an A team work is to have it a few weeks after the main internationals, so that you're not loosing your Internationals, your A's and your U20's at the same time, but rather during the 6N's the A level players are playing regional games to cover the Ints and U20's that are with the National team, and then when the Int's come back and take the places of the A level players, then the A level players go to the national A squad and play a higher level of rugby.

As bedford says, we desperately need an A side, and if implemented properly it should increase the amount of youngsters we produce by giving them more exposure at high level rugby.

If Wales were to reinstate their ATeam then it should be to look at fringe squad players and to introduce young players to the international game.

mm,

There are enough players playing first class Pro12 who could fill the A Side, and it would be ideal stepping stone if they got called up.

I still feel there should be one or two old heads thrown in just for that bit of experience or players returning from injury.

A team rugby is often a lower standard than league rugby. The benefit of A teams is the gathering of players out of their comfort zone of club play. New systems and new coaches. The only way it'll be used as a stepping stone for quality would be if there were several extended competitions (e.g. 6 nations) and there is no way the clubs (and probably the regions) would ever agree to that.

HammerofThunor wrote:A team rugby is often a lower standard than league rugby. The benefit of A teams is the gathering of players out of their comfort zone of club play. New systems and new coaches. The only way it'll be used as a stepping stone for quality would be if there were several extended competitions (e.g. 6 nations) and there is no way the clubs (and probably the regions) would ever agree to that.

Yes good point.

We are forgetting what it's like it's been so long now..!

I know the Churchill Cup is no more but there was a lot of good rugby played during that competition over the years. If another comp like that was to come along it would be very worthwhile getting involved with.

I'd be happy enough seeing it back.

I have been in favour of an A side for many years.However,I feel that the economic situation reduces the need as the Regions are forced to blood more young talent more often.The exposure to top level competitive Rugby will bring them on faster as shown by Toby,Dan.North and Williams.They might well have not got much gametime in the rich English league.We seem to be doing fairly well without an A side.If it aint broke,dont fix it!