Rocky Marciano Knockout Power

Here are some comments made from fighters who fought Rocky Marciano

Joe Louis - "It hurt to bump into him....He hits harder than Max Schmeling...this kid is tough enough to beat anyone." "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

Jersey Joe Walcott - "Marciano was a one-punch artist. He threw every punch like you throw a baseball, as hard as he could."

Ezzard Charles - "Rocky numbs you all over. Wherever he hits you, he hurts you; on the arms, the shoulders, the neck and the head."

Archie Moore - "After a fight with Marciano, it felt like you had been beat all over the upper body with a blackjack or hit with rocks."
"He could hurt you, sure, but it was the quantity of his punches. He just had more stamina than anyone else in those days. He was like a bull with gloves."

Roland LaStarza - "I would throw a hard punch, then he would throw a hard punch. The difference was that Rocky would throw 10 more. He just never stopped throwing punches."

Harry "Kid" Matthews - "He was a great puncher, one of the best of all-time. He just threw one punch after another, and all of them were hard."

Phil Muscato - "I can still feel his punches. He kept punching me in the upper arms until I could no longer hold them up to defend or throw punches".

Bernie Reynolds - "He had amazing strength. Any time Marciano hit you, he could hurt you. He didn't do much flicking; every punch was a knockout punch."

It is the Knock Out that excites boxing fans. The power puncher who can take out an opponent with one savage blow at any time in the fight is always going to make for an interesting fight. There have been great sluggers in boxing; Dempsey, Louis, Foreman, Sugar Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, to name a few of the best. The Ring magazine rates the best punchers on the criteria of those who can knock out quality opponents even in the later rounds, and who can knock out heavier opposition. Of the heavywieghts, the September 1997 issue of The Ring rated the three best punchers as Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano. Of Marciano they said he never sought refuge in a clinch, never tired, and couldn't be hurt, He was an unstoppable force, breaking bodies and spirits. It was a hellish experiance to fight him, like Dempsey and Louis, he was able to get his whole body into a punch."

When Marciano was destroying all challengers with devastating knockouts, the U.S. Testing Co. was asked to measure the power of Rocky's wallop. Its findings: "Marciano's knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground."

A lot of people thought how does a 187 pound man hit harder than a 200+ pound man when both are trained fighters? There's a saying in boxing that a fighter is born with power and it cannot be teached. Throughout boxing history this theory has proven it to be true. One heavyweight is a formidable knockout artist while another rarely hurts an opponent and must win by points, even though they might be identical in height, weight, and the size of their muscles. Part of it lies in how a fighter sets himself when he delivers his blow. A pure boxer stylist will be on his toes, mobile, with little contact with the floor when he hits. The force of his impact comes from his arms and shoulders only. But a slugger, a Jim Jefferies, Joe Louis, Dempsey, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, or Marciano, will plant his feet flat as he punches, using the floor for leverage to get more of his body weight behind the punch.

Another part is "commitment to the punch". The fighter who is worried about a counter blow is going to hold something back. He wants to be able to block the counter punch if it comes. But, the fighter who has no fear of retaliation, who accepts that he might get hit in return and couldn’t care less, will put everything into the punch. Marciano knew before he stepped into the ring that he would get hit a lot during the course of the fight. He accepted it beforehand and didn’t let it interfere with his intention to bang away at his opponent. When Rocky let go he was totally committed to the punch, putting every ounce of energy and body weight into every punch. Marciano’s incredible power began in his feet as they pushed off the mat. The energy was fed by his thick, muscular legs, the swivel of his hips, and the twist he’d put into his upper body as he snapped forward his arm and fist.

Where would you put Rocky Marciano on the list of all time greatest punchers in Heavyweight history?

Just outside the top 20 behind Haye.

behind shavers and foreman and louis, around a prime tyson .

KO-KING wrote:behind shavers and foreman and louis, around a prime tyson .

The man was a small cruiser. Frazier, Holmes, Lyle, Norton, Cooney, Witherspoon, Page all probably hit harder than him (and hit more precisely also). The Klits also.

Azania

He had incredible punching power. Hit harder than Frazier, Holmes, Lyle, Norton, Cooney, Witherspoon, Page, Ali etc. I would only put a few punchers ahead of him such as Shavers, Foreman and Tyson.

Shantel Jackson Boyfriend wrote:Azania

He had incredible punching power. Hit harder than Frazier, Holmes, Lyle, Norton, Cooney, Witherspoon, Page, Ali etc. I would only put a few punchers ahead of him such as Shavers, Foreman and Tyson.

Who did he ever fight that was any good, not old, or a blown up light-heavy?

Azania

You could pick apart anyone's record, fighters like Joe Louis opinion on Rocky Marciano punching power is enough for me. In my eyes he is in the top 10 or 15 hardest punchers in heavyweight history. He hit harder than most fighters who were 200+ pounds. I remember fighters putting their arms up to cover their faces to avoid his punchers and Rocky just hit the hell out of the arms and body to bring the hands down such was his awesome power.

Shantel Jackson Boyfriend wrote:Azania

You could pick apart anyone's record, fighters like Joe Louis opinion on Rocky Marciano punching power is enough for me. In my eyes he is in the top 10 or 15 hardest punchers in heavyweight history. He hit harder than most fighters who were 200+ pounds. I remember fighters putting their arms up to cover their faces to avoid his punchers and Rocky just hit the hell out of the arms and body to bring the hands down such was his awesome power.

Louis was a real gent. He said the right things to the right people at the right time. He wanted to be accepted. I need not explain my thinking behind what I am saying. He didn't ruffle any feathers and knew his place and role. I would take what he said about Rocky with a bottle of salt.

Azania

As you can see from the thread there were other fighters apart from Joe Louis who said the same thing. For the record I wouldn't have Rocky in my top 10 heavyweights of all time but his punching power was up there with the best of them.

Who did klitchko knockout who was any good?

Shantel Jackson Boyfriend wrote:Azania

As you can see from the thread there were other fighters apart from Joe Louis who said the same thing. For the record I wouldn't have Rocky in my top 10 heavyweights of all time but his punching power was up there with the best of them.

I read what they said. Rock was an icon. People tend to overstate matters when talking about him. Yes he hit hard. No doubt. But lets not go overboard about the average boxer and his alleged power. I'm sure if those guys felt one straight right from Holmes, a lyle left hook or God help them one from Frazier, they would not be saying that every punch hurt as they would only feel one punch.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Who did klitchko knockout who was any good?

No-one of any note. He will soon KO Haye though.

Azania its all about opinions, we can never truly know as we can't put Marciano in the 70s but I do feel Marciano power can be devastating in that era as well.

Shantel Jackson Boyfriend wrote:Azania its all about opinions, we can never truly know as we can't put Marciano in the 70s but I do feel Marciano power can be devastating in that era as well.

I'd put him on par with the Quarry brothers although I think Jerry Quarry would have had his number. Also on the level with Oscar Bonavena also also think Oscar would have beate him. I simply do not rate Rocky in any way whatsoever. The ugliest* boxer ever to hold the title and the least skilled.

*his style that is.

If your questioning the power of Marciano you have serious issues, a limited boxer yes but had immense power, strenght, grit and chin. Look at the still image of the Suzy Q landing smack bang on Walcotts chin and answer me this when else has anyone distorted someones face like that?

imperialghosty wrote:If your questioning the power of Marciano you have serious issues, a limited boxer yes but had immense power, strenght, grit and chin. Look at the still image of the Suzy Q landing smack bang on Walcotts chin and answer me this when else has anyone distorted someones face like that?

I've seen those stills. Awesome picture. I reckon the stills of Gary Buckland landing the punch that flattened the Brit SFW champ on prizefighter would also be a great shot. Do you know if any stills are available?

Rock fought a pile of old men, light heavies and chumps. Right place, right time and right for America at the time. People always say nice things about him because of what he came to represent. But Larry Holmes was absolutely correct about him and look at the abuse he received for it.

There's nothing right about targeting a man who isn't even alive to defend himself because one feels bitter and underappreciated.

azania wrote:Rock fought a pile of old men, light heavies and chumps. Right place, right time and right for America at the time. People always say nice things about him because of what he came to represent. But Larry Holmes was absolutely correct about him and look at the abuse he received for it.

Marciano's opposition as champion was a darned sight better than Foreman's, ( Jose ' King ' Roman, Norton and Axel Schulz, ) but nobody doubts that Foreman could hit. I'd also venture that even a faded Charles, a Walcott who was in the form of his life and an ATG lightheavy in Archie Moore collectively represented stiffer challenges than did Alfredo Evangelista, "Ossie" Ocasio, Lorenzo Zanon, Leroy Jones, Scott LeDoux, a shot - to - smithereens Ali, Renaldo Snipes, Tex Cobb, Lucien Rodriguez, Scott Frank, David Bey and Carl Williams, against each of whom your man Holmes defended.

By the time Louis said what he said about Marciano he was America's idol and had absolutely no reason to be ' politically correct.' Besides, in 1968 Muhammad Ali was a pretty bitter man who felt he had been robbed of everything. The famous - or infamous - computer heavyweight tournament was set up in that year and in ONE of many versions, the computer had Marciano beating Ali. Ali was indignant, claiming that the computer ' must have been made in Alabama, ' but, desperate for money, he agreed to re enact the ' fight ' against Marciano for the TV companies. Marciano was forty six years old, but trained down close to fighting weight for the film. Ali, along with others who were present, tell the tale that during sparring sessions for the film Marciano - forty six years old, don't forget - nearly broke Ali in two with a body shot. Ali was astounded by Rocky's power. When most folks' picks as the two best heavies of all time both say that Marciano was a tremendous puncher that's plenty good enough for me. It's also good enough for me that it took Joe Louis two fights and one blistering combination to put Walcott away, whereas Marciano did it with a single punch.

Marciano was what he was. Not pretty ; not blessed with skill, speed of foot, technique or balance, but immensely strong, tough as old boots, utterly tireless and a man who hit like a mule. Itsy bitsy 185lb. Rocky would pole axe most of today's heavies without breaking sweat.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:Rock fought a pile of old men, light heavies and chumps. Right place, right time and right for America at the time. People always say nice things about him because of what he came to represent. But Larry Holmes was absolutely correct about him and look at the abuse he received for it.

Marciano's opposition as champion was a darned sight better than Foreman's, ( Jose ' King ' Roman, Norton and Axel Schulz, ) but nobody doubts that Foreman could hit. I'd also venture that even a faded Charles, a Walcott who was in the form of his life and an ATG lightheavy in Archie Moore collectively represented stiffer challenges than did Alfredo Evangelista, "Ossie" Ocasio, Lorenzo Zanon, Leroy Jones, Scott LeDoux, a shot - to - smithereens Ali, Renaldo Snipes, Tex Cobb, Lucien Rodriguez, Scott Frank, David Bey and Carl Williams, against each of whom your man Holmes defended.

By the time Louis said what he said about Marciano he was America's idol and had absolutely no reason to be ' politically correct.' Besides, in 1968 Muhammad Ali was a pretty bitter man who felt he had been robbed of everything. The famous - or infamous - computer heavyweight tournament was set up in that year and in ONE of many versions, the computer had Marciano beating Ali. Ali was indignant, claiming that the computer ' must have been made in Alabama, ' but, desperate for money, he agreed to re enact the ' fight ' against Marciano for the TV companies. Marciano was forty six years old, but trained down close to fighting weight for the film. Ali, along with others who were present, tell the tale that during sparring sessions for the film Marciano - forty six years old, don't forget - nearly broke Ali in two with a body shot. Ali was astounded by Rocky's power. When most folks' picks as the two best heavies of all time both say that Marciano was a tremendous puncher that's plenty good enough for me. It's also good enough for me that it took Joe Louis two fights and one blistering combination to put Walcott away, whereas Marciano did it with a single punch.

Marciano was what he was. Not pretty ; not blessed with skill, speed of foot, technique or balance, but immensely strong, tough as old boots, utterly tireless and a man who hit like a mule. Itsy bitsy 185lb. Rocky would pole axe most of today's heavies without breaking sweat.

You seem to be forgetting who Foreman took the title off and who he lost it to. Plus is a head to head at their respective peaks I cant see Rock living with Norton, irrespective of his glass chin or not.

Also I had Shultz winning against Foreman.

Louis always said the right thing. Throughout his career he always said the right thing. He knew his place. He wouldn't criticise or claim Rock didn't hit that hard. African American fighters then knew their place and said what they had to say for an easier life. Even Ali was very generous with other fighters. Remember what he said about Richard Dunne?

It doesn't matter that it took Louis more punches to beat Walcott. It just shows that if you hit your opponent right, they go. Walcott was caught with the perfect punch, right on the button. His posture when fighting was to throw bombs. No suptleties about his game. Just plod forward, feet planted and flail away. So it stands to reason that others would say he hit hard.

I dont hold much stock with that computer simulation. Anyone who dreams that Rock can ever have beaten Ali should wake up and apologise

As for Holmes, yes he had several gimme defences. Who hasn't. But he did beat several boxers who went on to hold versions of the belt in the future. All Rock did was defend against former champs, light heavies and a near dead Louis fighting to pay a tax bill.

Rock benefitted from who he was. Holmes was spot on about him. Imo he is one of the worst champs ever to hold the belt. Both Klits beat him without breaking sweat. Haye slaughters him. He would be ranked in the top 5 at cruiser at a push. I just dont rate him one bit.

azania wrote:I dont hold much stock with that computer simulation. Anyone who dreams that Rock can ever have beaten Ali should wake up and apologise

Neither do I.

The point is that Ali said Marciano, even at forty six, hit like a sledgehammer, which is the subject matter of this thread.

The opinions of Ali and Louis, together with the testimonies of other opponents, his trainer, Charlie Goldman, and what I have seen with my own eyes, are plenty good enough for me.

It's one thing to say that Marciano would lose to Norton which isn't the subject here but denying he hit like a ten ton hammer is baffling when all the evidence points to him doing so.

imperialghosty wrote:It's one thing to say that Marciano would lose to Norton which isn't the subject here but denying he hit like a ten ton hammer is baffling when all the evidence points to him doing so.

For a 185lber he hit hard. His feet were always planted ready to deliver bombs so therefore practically every punch hean intentions. No jabs, no pitty patter punches to create openings. Just bombs away. Effective for him against past it fighters and light heavies who were also past it. I believe that if his punch is measured against others it wouldn't be near the hardest.

Think with the Rock people get too bogged down with his style and see a crude brawler devoid of any technique, and whilst I think he is better than he gets credit for I am not about to argue he is Sugar Ray Robinson technically, think people overlook how much his lack of conventional technique or grace actually worked for him.

Read a biography of Archie Moore and he said the hardest thing about fighting Marciano is his sheer relenetlessness and when you try things such as feints or setting traps that work against 99% of other fighters they simply do not work against the Rock because he pretty much ignores what you're doing and jut keeps coming forward and punching which means at some point even the most gifted stylist will either find themselves standing and trading or being caught by one of the Rocks punches and this means that irrespective of technique he poses a genuine threat to any heavyweight ever.

I actually agree it is sometimes common to see the Rock overrated and personally don't find room for him in my top five but he is not far off and is a nailed on top ten guy every day of th week.

rowley wrote:Think with the Rock people get too bogged down with his style and see a crude brawler devoid of any technique, and whilst I think he is better than he gets credit for I am not about to argue he is Sugar Ray Robinson technically, think people overlook how much his lack of conventional technique or grace actually worked for him.

Read a biography of Archie Moore and he said the hardest thing about fighting Marciano is his sheer relenetlessness and when you try things such as feints or setting traps that work against 99% of other fighters they simply do not work against the Rock because he pretty much ignores what you're doing and jut keeps coming forward and punching which means at some point even the most gifted stylist will either find themselves standing and trading or being caught by one of the Rocks punches and this means that irrespective of technique he poses a genuine threat to any heavyweight ever.

I actually agree it is sometimes common to see the Rock overrated and personally don't find room for him in my top five but he is not far off and is a nailed on top ten guy every day of th week.

Pretty much sums it up, for me.

Belated happy birthday for yesterday, jeff. Hope you had a good one.

How does anyone think Moore would have faired against Frazier or Tyson? How long would Moore have lasted?

Regardless of opposition he still beat them in ways they hadn't been beaten before

Frazier
Tyson
Holmes
Klits
Foreman
Haye
Witherspoon
Norton
Spinks (Michael)

I believe you all know by now where I think the W will go. Is there any heavyweight champ in the last 40 years who Rock could have beaten? I have my doubts.

Thoughts?

azania wrote:How does anyone think Moore would have faired against Frazier or Tyson? How long would Moore have lasted?

Not the point of the article though, is it ?

Besides, Brewster beat Wlad. How long would Brewster last with Marciano ?

imperialghosty wrote:Regardless of opposition he still beat them in ways they hadn't been beaten before

Who still beats who?

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:How does anyone think Moore would have faired against Frazier or Tyson? How long would Moore have lasted?

Not the point of the article though, is it ?

Besides, Brewster beat Wlad. How long would Brewster last with Marciano ?

I think Wlad would have seen Rock's cabled punches coming.

He beats Wlad and Haye relatively quickly as neither fare well against pressure fighters, neither has the chin to stand up to his power and neither would be able to stop him trudging forward.

Spinks hasn't got the size and showed against Tyson what ruthless aggression does to him. Witherspoon hasn't got the ability to beat him.

imperialghosty wrote:He beats Wlad and Haye relatively quickly as neither fare well against pressure fighters, neither has the chin to stand up to his power and neither would be able to stop him trudging forward.

Spinks hasn't got the size and showed against Tyson what ruthless aggression does to him. Witherspoon hasn't got the ability to beat him.

If Walcott and Charles could shake him up, I fear for him when Haye or Wlad catches up with him.

Spinks would have bene too fast and awkward for Rock and Witherspoon too skilled (who isn't compared to Rock). Tim was quite a skilledfighter average jad with decent power. In shape he beats Rock easily.

azania wrote:Frazier
Tyson
Holmes
Klits
Foreman
Haye
Witherspoon
Norton
Spinks (Michael)

I believe you all know by now where I think the W will go. Is there any heavyweight champ in the last 40 years who Rock could have beaten? I have my doubts.

Thoughts?

Have them meet halfway, on a level playing field, ( i.e without the ' modern nutrition ' red herring, ) and I'd say Frazier would only be a SLIGHT favourite over Rocky ; Tyson would almost certainly put Marciano to sleep in three rounds but IF Rocky could hang in there for five or six he'd win ; Holmes boxes Rocky's ears off ; Marciano beats Wlad ; Vitali v Rocky could go either way, ( Rocky's incessant pressure and workrate might sneak it on points, but Vitali's reach and jab could equally do the same ; ) Foreman flattens Rocky - slugger beats swarmer ; Marciano knocks out Haye ; a focused Witherspoon would be 50 / 50 against Marciano ; Rocky knocks out Norton, who had the same cross armed defensive style as Moore but a weak chin, and Marciano beats Michael Spinks because Spinks doesn't have the wallop to keep Rocky off him.

Walcott is a bigger puncher than either Haye or Wlad

Why did you even bother posting this because it's just another attempt by you to disrespect a boxer from a past generation, get a life.

azania wrote:If Walcott and Charles could shake him up, I fear for him when Haye or Wlad catches up with him.

Walcott and Charles had text book skills and feinted to create openings. Haye, by contrast, relies on athleticism to get in and out. Hard to do when a puncher like Marciano is letting the artillery fly from all angles. Additionally, Charles didn't have Marciano off his feet and the Walcott knockdown was a flash knockdown while Rocky was still ' cold. ' Marciano was a notoriously slow starter.

To cap it all off, Marciano's stamina is legendary. Haye's isn't.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:How does anyone think Moore would have faired against Frazier or Tyson? How long would Moore have lasted?

Not the point of the article though, is it ?

Besides, Brewster beat Wlad. How long would Brewster last with Marciano ?

I think Wlad would have seen Rock's cabled punches coming.

Of course you do.

You don't think any fighter pre Ali was any good. Of course, Wlad and Vitali don't telegraph their punches, do they ?

imperialghosty wrote:Walcott is a bigger puncher than either Haye or Wlad

Why did you even bother posting this because it's just another attempt by you to disrespect a boxer from a past generation, get a life.

IG,

Pretty sure it's just someone after a bit of debate?

Why bring the same topic up over and over again

The old timers are rubbish, modern training techniques blah blah blah

Doesn't seem like that to me, Ghosty.

However, there is a simple solution, if you don't like it, don't comment.

You don't post on here so what informed opinion do you have on the subject, by virtue of the wording of the article it's obvious it's been debated before

I don't need an informed opinion to view a forum, Ghosty.

I'll make this point blunt for you. If you have issue with certain members of this board, either contact them via PM to resolve it, or keep schtum.

This board isn't a place for you to disrupt articles becasue you disagree with peoples opinions or because you claim it's been debated before. If it bothers you that much, please point out the offending articles and i'll be happy to review it. That's what we are here for.

We want healthy debate and banter, not insults.

But it's a place for moderators to purposefully disrupt things by debating the same thing again and again, double standards

imperialghosty wrote:Walcott is a bigger puncher than either Haye or Wlad

Why did you even bother posting this because it's just another attempt by you to disrespect a boxer from a past generation, get a life.

That's your opinon and you are of course entitled to it. SO kindly do me the favour of respecting my opinions on old timers. You do have a point in that I have little regard for Rock (as a fighter that is). If you believe I am wrong, then counter it. Your views about old timers (like windy coxy et al) are respected by myself even though I disagree.

imperialghosty wrote:But it's a place for moderators to purposefully disrupt things by debating the same thing again and again, double standards

I can't see where it's being debated again, Ghosty. Those are things we ask you guys to flag up.

Either way, this thread has now been merged with SJB's article.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:How does anyone think Moore would have faired against Frazier or Tyson? How long would Moore have lasted?

Not the point of the article though, is it ?

Besides, Brewster beat Wlad. How long would Brewster last with Marciano ?

I think Wlad would have seen Rock's cabled punches coming.

Of course you do.

You don't think any fighter pre Ali was any good. Of course, Wlad and Vitali don't telegraph their punches, do they ?

I have respect for the skills of loads of old timers. Wlad and Vit would just be too much for many old timers. But the beauty of boxing is that it takes one punch to change a fight. I dont care who you are, if hit properly, you go.

imperialghosty wrote:Why bring the same topic up over and over again

The old timers are rubbish, modern training techniques blah blah blah

Show me one post of mine where I said old timers were rubbish.

I think one of the few certanties of Marciano V greats since his time would be that he KO's Frazier. Frazier's signature punch was the big walloping left hook and Marciano's the Suzie Q right. Marciano's Suzie Q was a far straighter, quicker punch than Frazier's left which was looping, and The Rock could counter with the right for as long as it took. Frazier's greatest weapon just happens to play straight into Rocky's hands.

It counts for something in my book that the boxers quoted on the original article spoke so superlatively about Rock. Like when someone said about Louis, " It's like someone jammed a lightbulb in your face and turned it on and off", just vivid,gives you an inkling of the amount of pain the punches induce.
For anyone who has not actually read up about Rock or Patterson or whomever to say that they "weren't all that" is to me a sign of the times, that people can't/won't accept that the old-timers were as good or better than the new-timers.. it just rocks their world.
I think the reason ImperialGhost got upset is because on the old 606 site, this debate was degenerating into "green ink" writing!
And saying that Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles were "just cruisers" is a perfect example of this lazy thinking.

"Rock benefitted from who he was. Holmes was spot on about him. Imo he is one of the worst champs ever to hold the belt. Both Klits beat him without breaking sweat. Haye slaughters him. He would be ranked in the top 5 at cruiser at a push. I just dont rate him one bit."

azania....In terms of rubbish i have read on Boxing forums that one is an All Time Great
Better even than RJJ beating Louis and Johnson on one night
Clarify what you mean by "Rock benefitted from who he was"?
You can also add the fighters Rocky didnt face in your reasoning if you like
or the fights he lost

Have to agree with IG-it certainly seems that there's a degree of baiting going on, rather than genuine debate.

It is starting to become a little '1984' on here.