Fever in the Aviva II – this time, it’s provincial

First topic message reminder :

Leinster v Munster on Friday night. Should be a cracker, all internationals will be back with both teams and we’ll both be going hammer and tongs at it to get up to speed for the HC the following week.

Let the banter begin.

Turnips….

Thread update. Teams announced:

Leinster also name team

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Devin Toner
6: Sean O'Brien
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Kevin McLaughlin
20: Rhys Ruddock
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley


Munster:

Wian du Preez, Damien Varley, BJ Botha

Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell

Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Niall Ronan

Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara

Lifeimi Mafi, Will Chambers

Keith Earls, Johne Murphy, Doug Howlett

Bench: Denis Fogarty, Marcus Horan, John Hayes, Peter O'Mahony, James Coughlan, Tomas O'Leary, Ian Keatley, Danny Barnes

Im interested to see the Leinster backrow without Jennings. We saw the first half of the HEC final when they went for McLaughlin, O'Brien and Heaslip. Is there a chance Leinster will do the same again.

I hope it is SOB-Heaslip-Ryan.

Praying for it!

Teams announced today?????

I'd be hoping for the same were I a Leinster fan.

Schmidt was hinting at playing Darcy and BOD, this is not what I want. Would not be a happy bunny.
Get rid of Darcy please!!!!

Who do you think will have the better of it in the scrums?

I would expect the teams today alright.

No mention of Jennings in the squad update so i'd say it'll be

McLaughlin/Ruddock - Heaslip - O'Brien

Pete the smart money says that Leinster to have upper hand at scrum. Two big locks, a better scrum coach and a solid unit. Munster have BJ Botha - whether thats enough I don't know.

On the whole Darcy/McFadden thing, I'm not convinced by McFadden. He does ok but has never really delivered there for me.

Schmidt picked Darcy in all the big games last year and won with him. It'll be fine.

I don't want that Mick but I agree I think that's what we may see.

I don't think McFadden is the second coming, but with an extended run of games I think he could be quite good as he has all the attributes to be a very good centre.

I hope he justifises what I am saying....

What was up with Du Preez on Friday actually in the scrums? Got penalised loads

Du Preez isn't actually a good scrummager - people just seem to perceive this as he had an excellent scrum display 2 years ago against Northamtpon and he is South African.

I'd love to see Darragh Hurley keep fit. I truly think he would be a top prop but for injuries.

He has played Churchill Cup, Ireland A competions, Heineken Cup and Magners Leauge experience and is still only 25. Were it not for injury he could have been Healy.

red_stag wrote:Pete the smart money says that Leinster to have upper hand at scrum. Two big locks, a better scrum coach and a solid unit. Munster have BJ Botha - whether thats enough I don't know.

Two big locks? As I've said many times before on this forum, Leinster are going to miss Nathan Hines. I think Munster's locks are way better than anything Leinster have - but BJ is going to have to earn his corn in the next 3 weeks.

Well Toner is defo bulkier than Hines in that he weighs 21st or something absurd! I do agree that Munster locks are far better than leinster ones at the moment.

If we go VDM I think your scrum could be in issues and then come the 55th minute you will have to deal with a minature rhino in the form of Healy!

Always kind of assumed he was a better than average scrummager for some reason Stag.

Regarding McFadden, with a run of games he'll be better than anything D'Arcy can produce these days. Not saying he is all that and a bag of chips but renewal begins in the Provinces and Leinster no more than any other side, cannot afford to stand still.

Replacing both centres for the future would be brave/mad so choosing between BOD and D'Arcy.... no contest. Whomever plays 12 with BOD (or indeed at 13) willlearn oodles regarding defensive positioning as well trailor & support lines with ball inhand. So that youngster, can then step up when required, even if he has to be leader with a 'newbie' 12 inside him.

Sin I'm talking about size. Toner is a man mountain at over 20 stone. Hines is clearly a better player.

Pete going VDM is the smart move. Pick Healy and I back Botha to expose him.

The reason Wian du Preez appears better is that he usually does well in Magners League against lesser opponents. At the top level he isn't great in the scrum though.

Totally agree Debaters with you! Couldn't have said it better!

Stag-
Yeah I think that would be smart tactics, to keep things stable for a bit then unleash the ball of energy when others are tired and he can start getting higher purchase with his leg drive.

Munster don't really have impact subs to the level of Healy, Cronin, McLaughlin/Ruddock, Boss and R.Kearney especially in the front row.

Toner may be heavier, pund for pound though compared to Hines, dont make me laugh, the Aussie Scot is WAY stronger at scrum and maul time. I say that as a critic of Hines (probably because he is always a thorn in the side of Munster/Ireland when playing against him.

Toner may have improved this season, must confess I have rather oddly not seen any leinster games this season, by accident not design for the record!

Munster will need to be as physical as the ref allows them to be. Kill the Leinster maul before it starts and try to rattle their lineout too. And the usual things teams do, target their half backs etc. What Leinster will do to Murray and ROG.

Trench warfare lads. Beautiful winter rugby. Tries at a premium, hard inches not metres and both kickers 100% off the tee. Anything less is lights out.

I don't think Leinster will target Murray he seems cool and a great defender, like I posted earlier I think the main issues are going to be in midfield and where Murray sweeps to.

POM will cover Rog I assume and Murray will probably try to sweep the space between ROG and Barnes but Barnes and Chambers can be exploited as well. I think there are too many weak/untested links in the Munster midfield for the Munster 7 and 9 (who are also still very fresh and inexperienced) to cover up.

All the names I've just written have played together once.

Do you take men away from the breakdown? Not if Boss is playing and Sexton and BOD will recognise that quickly.
Do you bring in your wingers? I wouldn't a kick behind then you have a 6'10" mongo and a defensive lineout expert competing on your ball with a hooker who isn't a great thrower standing with the ball in his hands.

Really unsure of how Munster will defend, short of kill the ball by any means necessary, that can lead to penalties etc though if not for points the territory and possession.

Pete I hope Munster slow down the ball all day long. I don't rate Sexton as a kicker. For Ireland its one thing but in a game like this I think give him a few tough kicks early on and lets see how he does. Rattle him early.

I actually fancy Murray to attack the fringes of the Leinster ruck.

If Boss is starting 9 I won't be too worried about Murray but if Reddan is, I will be.
Think Sexton showed up well last friday kicking wise. Was it 5 from 6 or something?

Are the teams not being announced today? Would have thought they'd have been up by now

I think Sexton missed 2 kicks from what I saw Pete.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:If Boss is starting 9 I won't be too worried about Murray but if Reddan is, I will be.
Think Sexton showed up well last friday kicking wise. Was it 5 from 6 or something?

Think it was 7 from 8 or 9. Plus a drop goal.

what will rog do without wally there to protect him,

seriously he's been run over more times then road kill on the m50 against us.

heislip uses him as a rug in these games.

D24tress wrote:what will rog do without wally there to protect him,

seriously he's been run over more times then road kill on the m50 against us.

heislip uses him as a rug in these games.

I bet Cian Healy is glad Tomas O'Leary is injured. Very embarrassing for Healy to be knocked back by a back.

What is Heislip going to do when ROG retires to look like he is interested in playing rugby?

Never really was sure how that wasn't a card or a penalty try!!! At least Heaslip making ROG a rug was legal!!!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Never really was sure how that wasn't a card or a penalty try!!! At least Heaslip making ROG a rug was legal!!!

O'Leary was no worse than Heaslip dropping the shoulder on ROG (at least it was a Back manning up to a Prop).

What does it matter. Neither got carded and Leinster won both games. Good stuff.

Although I’m not sure how you’re supposed to shoulder charge someone who’s standing in front of you while you’re running straight towards them…?

Mickado wrote:What does it matter. Neither got carded and Leinster won both games. Good stuff.

Although I’m not sure how you’re supposed to shoulder charge someone who’s standing in front of you while you’re running straight towards them…?

Yeah I was thinking the same, he just boshed ROG, TOL basically close-lined Healy.

Mickado wrote:What does it matter. Neither got carded and Leinster won both games. Good stuff.

Although I’m not sure how you’re supposed to shoulder charge someone who’s standing in front of you while you’re running straight towards them…?

It matters in that Healy looked as if someone shot him - the play acting was unbelievable.

ROG just got on with it and didn't milk the situation.

You drop the shoulder. See this for an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1P1vpbhLQM

So that would be an example of something that didn't happen then....

Right so.

Also, you've clearly proved that Healy is a pussay and ROG is the 6 million dollar man. Kudos!

Mickado wrote:So that would be an example of something that didn't happen then....

Right so.

Also, you've clearly proved that Healy is a pussay and ROG is the 6 million dollar man. Kudos!

You seemed to think that it wasn't possible to shoulder charge someone in front of you.

Have a look at it again - even DL, while in total admiration of the 'hit', describes Heaslip as lowering his shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-JToT2_ZBo

Dropping your shoulder is not shoulder charging.

But thanks. That was pretty entertaining.

Sin, I think that normally we think of the defender rather than the ball-carrier as doing the shoulder-charging, which makes this one quite different, no? Heaslip is also smart enough to bring his arm thru which gives out the possibility that it was a hand(arm-)-off?

lads its grand neither of these were that bad, at least nobody stood on anyones head while they were lying on the floor defenseless

You are allowed to though if you have the ball wouldn't make much sense having to "use arms" when trying to get by someone with the ball in one or two hands. It's just going thru a guy, if he was tackling it would be a different story

How quickly did ROG get back up and “just g[e]t on with it and didn't milk the situation”?

Was getting on with it part of the plan to not score that day?

Mickado wrote:Dropping your shoulder is not shoulder charging.

But thanks. That was pretty entertaining.

You are the one who started denying shoulder charging!

Read my post - I commented on Heislip dropping his shoulder - just a bit cheap for a forward to do that to a back - he should surely be able to just hand him off (like Earls could do to Healy & Sexton ).

Why did you start talking about shoulder charging in the first place?

Sin are you really saying Heaslip shouldn't have ran through O'Gara because he is a forward and O'Gara is a back? Really?

Mickado wrote:How quickly did ROG get back up and “just g[e]t on with it and didn't milk the situation”?

Was getting on with it part of the plan to not score that day?

He wasn't as quick as BOD getting up in the Magners Final after Horan looked side-ways at him Talking about a miraculous recovery. Some gullible souls thought he was injured

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Dropping your shoulder is not shoulder charging.

But thanks. That was pretty entertaining.

You are the one who started denying shoulder charging!

Read my post - I commented on Heislip dropping his shoulder - just a bit cheap for a forward to do that to a back - he should surely be able to just hand him off (like Earls could do to Healy & Sexton ).

Why did you start talking about shoulder charging in the first place?

Not the same when you are running straight at someone who should be set, as opposed to running outside a player and handing them off as they are extended trying to reach the attacker.

Completely different situations.

Why hand him off that gives ROG a chance to grab his shirt and drag, if he is laid out ROG's best chance of the tackle is for Jamie to trip over his body

He was injured, Marcus Horan actually body checked him off the ball. Still got up and made the hit.
Legend!

Jesus Sin, you’re losing the plot.

You think it’s cheap for a forward to legally drop his shoulder to go though a back, but it’s not cheap for a back to illegally clothesline a forward?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin are you really saying Heaslip shouldn't have ran through O'Gara because he is a forward and O'Gara is a back? Really?

Nope - I'm arguing that its embarrassing for Leinster fans to brag about a forward knocking over a back.

I'm pretty sure it was a light-hearted joke, you are taking things way too seriously. It was a pretty good run by Heaslip though. You get wound up pretty easily.

We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin are you really saying Heaslip shouldn't have ran through O'Gara because he is a forward and O'Gara is a back? Really?

Nope - I'm arguing that its embarrassing for Leinster fans to brag about a forward knocking over a back.

Also big generalisation there Sin.. had the back been Roberts, Tuilangi, Nonu etc I am pretty sure that forward would be getting some praise! Your argument would make more sense if you replace back with O'Gara, as yes this does tend to happen to him quite often, poor thing.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I'm pretty sure it was a light-hearted joke, you are taking things way too seriously. It was a pretty good run by Heaslip though. You get wound up pretty easily.

*sigh* and there I thought I was being funny.
Note to self: mustryhardertobeentertaining

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin are you really saying Heaslip shouldn't have ran through O'Gara because he is a forward and O'Gara is a back? Really?

Nope - I'm arguing that its embarrassing for Leinster fans to brag about a forward knocking over a back.

Also big generalisation there Sin.. had the back been Roberts, Tuilangi, Nonu etc I am pretty sure that forward would be getting some praise! Your argument would make more sense if you replace back with O'Gara, as yes this does tend to happen to him quite often, poor thing.

It happens to most OHs regularly - this is why Ian Humphreys disappears out on the wing and Jonny Wilkinson spent most of his rugby playing career being injured.

And you should watch the highlights of the Leinster v Clermont game in the RDS to see Sexton getting run over regularly by Clermont's backs.

D24tress wrote:We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Remind me how many tries Leinster have scored in their last outing against Munster with ROG at OH!

I think Leinster will be up against it to score any tries against Munster. Munster has by far the best defense in the Magners (and has been since Axel took over as defense coach).

Meanwhile, Leinster's defence is creeking bigtime. They need a dedicated defense coach.

Sin é wrote:

D24tress wrote:We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Remind me how many tries Leinster have scored in their last outing against Munster with ROG at OH!

I think Leinster will be up against it to score any tries against Munster. Munster has by far the best defense in the Magners (and has been since Axel took over as defense coach).

Meanwhile, Leinster's defence is creeking bigtime. They need a dedicated defense coach.

Well that was after we won a heineken cup, this is before we win one

massive difference, and we are undefeated against you in the lansdowne

D24tress wrote:We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Amazing how many hits that video has though (104K) - someone must think its got something

Ferris picking up Genia (on the world stage) only has 10K hits on youtube.

Sexton's kicking should be ok in the Aviva in front of a home crowd. He usually just goes to bits in big games away from home (like the way he messed badly his first kick in Thomond in the Magners Final).

And in case you cite the HCup Finals - there were far more Leinster fans so it was as good as a home game.

D24tress wrote:

Sin é wrote:

D24tress wrote:We are not bragging, i wouldnt brag about my granny running through ROG and she would too,

someone said we should be worried about sextons kicking and i said i would be worried about rog's defending without wally there to babysit

Remind me how many tries Leinster have scored in their last outing against Munster with ROG at OH!

I think Leinster will be up against it to score any tries against Munster. Munster has by far the best defense in the Magners (and has been since Axel took over as defense coach).

Meanwhile, Leinster's defence is creeking bigtime. They need a dedicated defense coach.

Well that was after we won a heineken cup, this is before we win one

massive difference, and we are undefeated against you in the lansdowne

It was your 2nd HC - so the novelty of winning a cup should have worn off. Munster were in bonus try territory

Leinster are conceeding a lot of tries in the Magners.