Fever in the Aviva II – this time, it’s provincial

First topic message reminder :

Leinster v Munster on Friday night. Should be a cracker, all internationals will be back with both teams and we’ll both be going hammer and tongs at it to get up to speed for the HC the following week.

Let the banter begin.

Turnips….

Thread update. Teams announced:

Leinster also name team

15: Rob Kearney
14: Isa Nacewa
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Isaac Boss

1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Devin Toner
6: Sean O'Brien
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Kevin McLaughlin
20: Rhys Ruddock
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Ian Madigan
23: Eoin O'Malley


Munster:

Wian du Preez, Damien Varley, BJ Botha

Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell

Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Niall Ronan

Conor Murray, Ronan O'Gara

Lifeimi Mafi, Will Chambers

Keith Earls, Johne Murphy, Doug Howlett

Bench: Denis Fogarty, Marcus Horan, John Hayes, Peter O'Mahony, James Coughlan, Tomas O'Leary, Ian Keatley, Danny Barnes

D24tress wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Yes it could DOD. My recollection was that there was a fair bit of cynical play and indiscipline by both sides and that combined with a whistle happy referee led t a poor specticle.

Leinster did look more threatening with the ball so it did appear that Munster were doing more infringing at the breakdown and straying offside in their own half. The fact that Leinster had more kicks on goal would suggest that.

It is a fact though that Leinster conceded more overall but they must have been out of kicking range or Munster would have won. Munster did appear to have the upper hand in the set peice so I'd imagine a few penalties were conceded there.

Indeed - three penalties against Jennings!

Leinster players penalised :
Jennings 3. O'Brien, Toner, Cullen - all 2.
Nacewa, McFadden, D'Arcy, Strauss, Heaslip, McLaughlin = all 1 penalty.

None of the Leinster props got penalised, unlike Botha gave away 2 penalties.

In the 2nd half, Munster turned down a few kicking chances and went for the lineout.

without a verified source this is the ramblings of a madman.

surely you private school boys know about sources

The link had been supplied by DOD earlier in the thread.

http://www.espnscrum.com/rabodirect-pro12-2011-12/rugby/match/144631.html

The Statistician who is responsible for the information provided is called Stuart Farmer of SFMS Limited.

Those stats suggest that O'Gara had 100% kicking accuracy from the tee.

I would immediately question how valid they are.

Nice spot,I've already shown how these sites can get it wrong in an earlier post.That they can get such a fundemental stat wrong just shows how they are a poor source to be basing your arguments on.

Mickado wrote:Those stats suggest that O'Gara had 100% kicking accuracy from the tee.

I would immediately question how valid they are.

100% accurate No - close enough - Yes.
This company provides stats to teams / IRB / different leagues.

Could have been a typo anyway. And whoever inputed the text probably thought that O'Gara couldn't miss a kick

Hahahaha we get a source and the first thing spotted is how in accurate it is.

D24tress wrote:Hahahaha we get a source and the first thing spotted is how in accurate it is.

I hope Joe Schmidt isn't clutching the same straws as you are at Leinster when he has a look at the stats.

Nah, they got the score right. That's all he needs to know.

What straws would Schmidt be clutching at,Leinster won the game after about 60 minutes.Once RoG blinked and missed the penalty it was all over.Munster had to go for tries and they never looked like scoring one from play.

Mickado wrote:Nah, they got the score right. That's all he needs to know.

If that is the case, why do coaches 'look' at any stats? You hardly think these stats are produced for our amusement. Someone has to pay for them and its not me

Do they look at the stats?
Maybe they just look at the video analysis. I would bet that's much more useful than statistics which can be very easily taken out of context.

I would suppose that ESPN pay for the stats to drive traffic to their site. I doubt Joe Schmidt trawls through them...

For Siné "Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.”


and go to 30 seconds in this video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-the-coaches/09000d5d8226512b/Winner-winner

Leinster would have their own stats on every player. They are monitored and controlled. At all levels.

It's the Leinster Way.

This is not Amateur Avond.

Mickado wrote:Do they look at the stats?
Maybe they just look at the video analysis. I would bet that's much more useful than statistics which can be very easily taken out of context.

I would suppose that ESPN pay for the stats to drive traffic to their site. I doubt Joe Schmidt trawls through them...

And when they look at the video anaysis they will also notice that Shane Jennings gave away 3 penalties and also conclude (hopefully) that Leinster's discipline ain't the best and they need to do something about it.

By the way, the company that produces this information sell it to the various leagues for their use as well as well as EPSN.

Jenno was the best backrow on the pitch. A real 7 does give away pens. Its in his nature to play on the edge. Just not in front of the posts everytime. Tanks for that.

That change of subject was subtle...

99.99% of all real Pint drinkers would agree. And the other .01% are liars.

Mickado wrote:That change of subject was subtle...

Thats what he does best,as soon as anyone points out the flaws in his argument he makes a provocative statement that sends the conversation in another direction.

Sin should be a magician,he's the master of misdirection

Leamy is not only usesless... he's a liability.

100%

I wonder why Munster don't get these stats.8 yellow cards from 8 games would suggest that Munsters discipline ain't the best and they need to do something about it.

Obviously if McGahan just had these stats he'd make sure that stopped happening.

Thomond wrote:For Siné "Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.”


and go to 30 seconds in this video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-the-coaches/09000d5d8226512b/Winner-winner

I only used stats to back up my assertion that Munster were not entirely responsible for all the stoppages in play that were attributed to them by Joe Schmidt.

It was within Leinster's own hands to produce the spectacle that their fans demanded.

Sin that's irrelevant, as Gibson said each club uses their own statistics. I'm sure McGahan didn't log onto ESPN after the match to see the stats and think "oh balls their not up yet, will check tomorrow". The fact that leagues use the same stats is just as irrelevant.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I wonder why Munster don't get these stats.8 yellow cards from 8 games would suggest that Munsters discipline ain't the best and they need to do something about it.

Obviously if McGahan just had these stats he'd make sure that stopped happening.

POC took it on the chin when he was interviewed and didn't make any excuses. I expect there to be a big improvement.

Also, I'm yet to see any evidence that Schmidt or Sexton complained about Munster. Only a direct quote from Joe that said the match was a penalty fest, which it clearly was.

Mickado wrote:Sin that's irrelevant, as Gibson said each club uses their own statistics. I'm sure McGahan didn't log onto ESPN after the match to see the stats and think "oh balls their not up yet, will check tomorrow". The fact that leagues use the same stats is just as irrelevant.

You'd think a coach of Schmidt experience would know that his team were giving away a few penalties. Even he must have noticed the last 10 minutes of the game. He should have kept his mouth shut.

All stats are just a numerical record. Leinster's own stats should not differ too much from those published on ESPN.

Sin é wrote:

POC took it on the chin when he was interviewed and didn't make any excuses. I expect there to be a big improvement.

In fairness it doesn't seem to be causing you too much problem,3rd in the table despite that amount of yellow cards.

I said this earlier,don't know if it was on this thread or another one but should they look at increasing the sin bin to 15 minutes.Muntser,Ospreys and Cardiff are all high up the table despite a pretty poor disciplinary record regarding ellow cards.

Have teams worked out how to keep the score down when they have only 14 men?

Mickado wrote:Also, I'm yet to see any evidence that Schmidt or Sexton complained about Munster. Only a direct quote from Joe that said the match was a penalty fest, which it clearly was.

His after match interview on TG4 and when Sexton was presented with his MOTM award.

Maybe he calmed down when giving other interviews or someone had a word in his ear.

Mickado wrote:You were on the debate team Sin?

What sites did you use for your stats?

Good tho...

Gibson wrote:Leamy is not only usesless... he's a liability.

100%

Erm and Heaslip is what exactly? worse than useless

DOD wrote:

Gibson wrote:Leamy is not only usesless... he's a liability.

100%

Erm and Heaslip is what exactly? worse than useless

At least he manages 80 mins now and then. And actually puts in a shift. Not recently mind, but mostly. In fairness.
Leamy is becoming another Kidney embarrassment. Like Buckley & TOL.

Got to leave those 3 behind now. Enough already.

DOD wrote:

Gibson wrote:Leamy is not only usesless... he's a liability.

100%

Erm and Heaslip is what exactly? worse than useless

Ah now DOD, Heaslip is better than Leamy in one aspect of the game.

Its Heaslip 9 Leamy 5 for Yellow Cards !

Of course David Wallace is one of the most disciplined backrows in the world. 3 Yellow cards in over 200 games for Munster.

Mickado wrote:Sin that's irrelevant, as Gibson said each club uses their own statistics. I'm sure McGahan didn't log onto ESPN after the match to see the stats and think "oh balls their not up yet, will check tomorrow". The fact that leagues use the same stats is just as irrelevant.

At the moment heaslip is a liability for ireland. Initially i thought he was doing more donkey work which was why he was anonymous in games but as per the welsh game you couldnt tell if he was on the pitch or not. Anyway am sure we will hear all the bleating from the blue rinse brigade about form and making changes. At this rate on form POM has shown enough.

Dont worry gibson TOL will be no.2 at least by the 6ns. Redden is poor and if you want past it then you gave boss and not just his haircut

Wow sin e stats on yellow cards..at least heaslip has done something of note

I think Heaslip is playing better now that he's with a real number 7 and a 6 playing in his best position.

Of course he is

One wurd. Jenno. SOB & Jamie sing with Jenno. Makes them both look better players. Pain in me phhokin arse sayin it. He's the piano player. They are the piano-shifters.
Its the best balanced backrow in Europe. If not - the World.

Except when jenno gets to play international...oops

You're not a wee bit nice Decco. He's misunderstood. He'll be grand when ROG throws his toys out of the pram. And walks away in a huff. Yet again. And Deccie takes his soother off him for good. It is coming. And not before its time.

I wasn't impressed with Heaslip or O'Brien in the Leinster-Munster match tbh.. nor Jennings with the 3 penalties he gave away. I think Heaslip really needs to take things up a notch or he should get replaced by Ruddock/McLaughlin/Ryan.

Rory. Jennings won the game for us. I'll take 3 strategic penos, his dominance and affect on that game. And... Munsters, silly, 7/8 penos in front of the posts. Any day.

Anyway, this is a silly convo. Leinster are so far ahead now, its actually scary. And it will get worser.

Ah well.

10 more Years.

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Gibson wrote:Leamy is not only usesless... he's a liability.

100%

Erm and Heaslip is what exactly? worse than useless

Ah now DOD, Heaslip is better than Leamy in one aspect of the game.

Its Heaslip 9 Leamy 5 for Yellow Cards !

Of course David Wallace is one of the most disciplined backrows in the world. 3 Yellow cards in over 200 games for Munster.

Actually it's 8 yellows for Leamy to 9 yellows and a red for Heaslip,so not a huge difference there.

Gibson wrote:Jenno was the best backrow on the pitch. A real 7 does give away pens. Its in his nature to play on the edge. Just not in front of the posts everytime. Tanks for that.

His name was mentioned quite often in the sexy tries compilation too if I recall.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:

Gibson wrote:Leamy is not only usesless... he's a liability.

100%

Erm and Heaslip is what exactly? worse than useless

Ah now DOD, Heaslip is better than Leamy in one aspect of the game.

Its Heaslip 9 Leamy 5 for Yellow Cards !

Of course David Wallace is one of the most disciplined backrows in the world. 3 Yellow cards in over 200 games for Munster.

Actually it's 8 yellows for Leamy to 9 yellows and a red for Heaslip,so not a huge difference there.

Its 5 YC on the Munster website for Leamy. And 9 YCs for Heaslip on the Leinster website.

Heaslips Red Card (internationally) was the equivalent to about 6 YCs considering how early he was sent off and he was cited, leaving Ireland in a right mess on a SH tour for 2 matches.

Yeah but somebody had to do it. Needs a word with Quinlan before trying it again though...

Funny that eh Glas? A lot of Irish fans can't see it. Deccie... well...

If he was Welsh, Scottish or English, he'd be in their 22.

I give up.

Just want a Heino or two out of him yet. He is our Quinny. He is an essential, contrary, mofo. Like Quinny was in Munsters 2 x HC wins.

These club players are rare. They make the club.

I despair at their attitude to Carr

I know, but he is special. Don't wait until
He's in his late 20's before giving him caps.

Glas a du wrote:I despair at their attitude to Carr

I know, but he is special. Don't wait until
He's in his late 20's before giving him caps.

We won't. He's not getting any full stop......

He may miss out. Maybe it will get too much at Leinster. More experienced guys in his way and still talented youff coming thro. IF he becomes free again... Scarlets an option? Maybe Munster or Ulster 1st?

I think he would be dynamite for Scarlets. He'd fit right in and fly.

Like the Tommy Bowe, Ulster to Ospreys - transformation.

Are you sure you aren't Carr's relative Glas?

Glas a du wrote:Yeah but somebody had to do it. Needs a word with Quinlan before trying it again though...

Ya, Quinlan the king of the dark arts only got 8 yellows in his Munster career (and no Red Cards).

Martyn Williams has got 11 YC & 1 Red for Cardiff.

Heislip is clueless!

Unfortunately heaslip is looking more interested in the slug on his top lip, or his bleatings on twitter. POM will be a shoe in for the 6ns at this stage..liked the way he clocked cullen around the head after 5 mins being on...all legal of course