Player Sections

ok guys. It's been a crazy week and I have been chatting to the other admin to try and come up with a solution.
First off, we can not have the feature that allows the thread starter to delete comments made on their thread. That was something the BBC had on 606, but our software here simply doesn't allow it.

There have been complaints that threads are derailed because of 'outside' interference and that positive threads are 'highjacked' and spoilt.

What we can do is have the player sections again. But we can set up usergroups so that only members in that usergroup can post in that player section. People not in the usergroup will not see the section, or any posts in it.

Obviously, if it is set up, we would need someone to 'head' their section, so that they can receive pm requests to join the usergroup. That 'head' can then ask the Admin to add said member to the usergroup, thus enabling them to post in the section. Our site rules would still apply to these sections.

If you would like this feature, please vote on the player (representing your own section) so that we can have an idea on numbers, and whether it is something you would like.

If this is set up, we would still like you all to post in the main tennis section also.

It is a shame it has to be so regimented but I can see your reasoning.

We just want the members to be happy carrieg. I dont like threatening people with bans because of insults, and some would just like to post in relative peace without the insults and people spoiling threads.

Is there a way of having like a chatbox for the tennis section?

I just think the player sections will dry up in fairness. I think if there was a chatbox, I think posters may find a 'new' respect for each other as they could chat and interact with each other instead of coming in the beginning, middle or end of a thread and it descends off topic quite quickly.

Nooo!!!!!!!I'm sick and tired of talking to myself

We cant have a section chat box unfortunately. (Just the main one we put on)
At least with the 'usergroup sections' it gives you the chance to post without people spoiling the threads.

That's the problem with it being so regimented - a lot of us support more than one player and would happily contribute positively on more than one 'fan' thread.

If the majority of posters want separate player sections by invitation or request only - well I agree with carrie that it is a shame, but if it will help keep the peace and everyone happy, it seems a good solution.

I haven't voted because I like to talk about a variety of players and I prefer the differences of opinion on the main threads.

Basically, I am happy with what the majority decides, but I will stick to this bit.

Im sure there would be no harm in being a part of several usergroups Carrieg.
I've edited the poll to allow multiple votes.

Thanks Y I Man. I will probably spend most of my time on the main threads but would definitely use the fan threads too.

Y I Man wrote:We cant have a section chat box unfortunately. (Just the main one we put on)
At least with the 'usergroup sections' it gives you the chance to post without people spoiling the threads.

Following on from legend's suggestion YI Man, is it possible to just allow a thread on the tennis forum to be a chat room?

BTW,
haven't we already had this kind of poll and people didn't want "pubs" . I mean what IS the point of segmentation on such a small pool of people. And who is that desperate to be pushing for such a move, I think it's not good to dissect this forum, not enough people to make it function, crybabies can just toughen up a bit...
Whoever wants a separate fan thread can start it and carry on, there is no need to split the forum. It didn't work the first time,why would it work now?

Agree regarding the size of the pool of people NITB. Don't really know what the solution is but having an oasis of calm to visit whilst still being able to have discussion and healthy debate on the main threads does sound like an improvement. Maybe the chat thread is a better solution - who knows?

Main problem with this is thay aren't IMO enough regular posters on here that the private sections will be that active. I assume we keep the general tennis section too? If so, then surely sections for Murray and Federer would be enough. Don't think we have enough Nole or Rafa fans to warrant their own private section.

Don't mind the idea, and happy to volunteer to "head" the Murray section.

Hello....

Just passing....

Well the Rafateers have already left and formed their own forum as have those that support Andy. They all started here but left. At the moment I don't think there is enough for a viable fan section. Of course with a constant flow of new members then this might build up again. Perhaps having at least one will show that such a thing is possible, and it would seem that having an Andy section would perhaps be worth setting up considering that might resolve some of the issues that have been raised.

Having these sorts of player sections has it's positives though does it not? It gives those of us wanting to have civil discussion/debate about our favourite players with those on the wind-up with nothing fruitful or useful to add not welcome to the group. What they see as 'their right' to player bash or as the camouflage it is constructive criticism are free to do so on the current section of the forum within reason and providing it doesn't break forum rules etc. It wouldn't mean I would not contribute to the other tennis topics (the reasonable and level-headed ones that is) and players sections would be open to all to join providing they post with civility and without mischief. I don't see the problem in it myself as you can still air your views as long as it is done in the right way.

I just hope there will be no Federer or Djokovic sections.

That should prove a point.

having slept on it, I am worried about player sections for two reasons:

1. It will limit the activity on the main forum and that won't encourage anyone passing to join - particularly if they can't read the player sections. If we must go down this route, can't you make it that the player sections can be read by everyone, but that you can't post unless you have asked to join and be accepted.

2. Which brings me on to my next objection - to have them totally hidden may well result in cliques that can 'bitch' together in safety about certain members on the main forum, and then come into attack a poster en masse. I think we have seen a little of this type of thing happening already.

It's just human nature that where a clique is created, people will bond sometimes over shared antipathy - which would seem to rather defeat your original wish.

Hi

Can I head the Sharapova thread section?

Cheers

time please wrote:having slept on it, I am worried about player sections for two reasons:

1. It will limit the activity on the main forum and that won't encourage anyone passing to join - particularly if they can't read the player sections. If we must go down this route, can't you make it that the player sections can be read by everyone, but that you can't post unless you have asked to join and be accepted.

2. Which brings me on to my next objection - to have them totally hidden may well result in cliques that can 'bitch' together in safety about certain members on the main forum, and then come into attack a poster en masse. I think we have seen a little of this type of thing happening already.

It's just human nature that where a clique is created, people will bond sometimes over shared antipathy - which would seem to rather defeat your original wish.

That wont happen, i can promise you.

All the admins will be able to see the special sections.

The sections are there for discussion about your on favourite and NOT about other tennis issues - that is what the main board is for.

I'm not sure I'd post much, if at all, to a one-player-only section.
I'd rather see 'positivity' available to all in the hope that some of it rubs off (hopeless idealism, I know).
If a 'positive' thread gets de-railed, can't the OP simply ask for it to be locked?

I'm not very keen on having seperate player sections as I feel people views will be too similar. There are some things that you could debate like should your favourite player have a coach, should he be more agressive etc. but without sensible input from others it will not amount to much. I'm quite happy to debate sensibly in general forums, and challenge constructively where where inaccuracies or slanted articles are posted. That's what debating is about.

Why don't you have a Wum section where all the Wum's can post and argue as much as they wish and the people who want to debate tennis and players sensibly can get on with it.

In an ideal world I would like for people to post on the main. Being a 'Tennis' section I think that the amount of topics on the game will become very scarce. I can understand the thinking and the logic, but we have the foe button and if people are that 'offended' by comments on threads on here, why are they not using them?? I think the Admins job on here is tough already and I think making 'special' considerations which I appreciate, I think there comes a time when you just say 'Look guys we have done everything we can on this website to accomodate 'everyones' needs, we suggest using the foe button' IF they choose not to use it, then they are being blinded by their own ignorance to be honest.

For me, yes at times I know I can be harsh. I challenge peoples views and I am not one to let someone off the hook that makes 'outlandish' and 'unformed' comments. The same applies to them too. If they don't like me or my posts, use the foe button.

I can't see how much easier you can make it for posters here.

As a Federer fan I do NOT want a Federer section. I support great tennis and only like Federer because he embodies it.

I respect YI Man trying to meet his users needs, but personally I think this is pathetic. At least Wooffie and the others were honest about their desire to have a cosy place where they can use their and to their hearts content while they admire Rafas body; there are other people on here who purport to be tennis fans whose standards of debate and tolerance of disagreement are no different from those girls.

By all means give them a fanboy/girl section so they can hear the same views reflected back on them and leave the tennis section for people who can give and receive opinion and who are mature enough to understand debate and maybe even take a few hits.

I dont see the issue if people want their own section, the problem will be whether its actually popular enough to make it work. Just reading through these replies here gives a sense of some superiority issues over those who choose to post in that type of closed environment which I dont really understand. What's it to a main forum member if others want to post their views in a closed section? I've never particularly posted much in any closed section (even though people know I'm a mild Nadal fan) but I wouldnt want to stop those who do want to share their own space and exchange views - its not just fawning over Rafa's body, etc, either, many of his fans like to exchange information about post-match pressers, news, etc...which they wouldnt post on main. Again, to indicate thats all "fanboys" do (and I hate that term in itself) is again acting slightly snobbish/superior. I think elitism in any forum needs to be squashed personally otherwise it leads to a narrowing of views/contributions and member base. This forum doesnt have to be about 4-5 guys with tennis PhDs.

legendkillar wrote: If they don't like me or my posts, use the foe button.

I can't see how much easier you can make it for posters here.

Yes, it's that simple.

I think it may also help, when a couple of posters argue for a long time and really can stand each other, for the moderators to apply the foe bottom by default for a period of time, so to chill them out a bit.

time please wrote:having slept on it, I am worried about player sections for two reasons:

Lucky you! It kept me awake all night!

what is "the foe" button?

I agree with lydian's post - the idea that people who might want player sections are 'fanboys/girls' who lack maturity is just intellectual snobbery.
Why shouldn't people just be fans if they want, without entering into the bio-mechanics of topspin, or even without wanting to dissect every negative nuance of the player they like.
There's nothing wrong with just liking a player for whatever reason one chooses.
I'm sure the real PhDs in sports science and psychology would probably find this forum 'immature'.
I sometimes wonder if the forum doesn't suck the enjoyment out of watching tennis - it's supposed to be fun, after all.

lydian wrote:I dont see the issue if people want their own section, the problem will be whether its actually popular enough to make it work. Just reading through these replies here gives a sense of some superiority issues over those who choose to post in that type of closed environment which I dont really understand. What's it to a main forum member if others want to post their views in a closed section? I've never particularly posted much in any closed section (even though people know I'm a mild Nadal fan) but I wouldnt want to stop those who do want to share their own space and exchange views - its not just fawning over Rafa's body, etc, either, many of his fans like to exchange information about post-match pressers, news, etc...which they wouldnt post on main. Again, to indicate thats all "fanboys" do (and I hate that term in itself) is again acting slightly snobbish/superior. I think elitism in any forum needs to be squashed personally otherwise it leads to a narrowing of views/contributions and member base. This forum doesnt have to be about 4-5 guys with tennis PhDs.

Like I say, great and give them a section. It's nothing to me.

As for it not being about fawning over Rafas body, have you never read a Wooffie thread?

As for elitism, you misunderstand the word. Elitists want separation so they don't have to mix with another caste. Can you see who the elitists are now?

You can start them, but they'll just die on their feet in this forum because those that are happiest in such a section would seem to have cleared off already.

Personally on the old 606 and the current forum they've never been for me as they tend to be havens for people whose skins are on the thin side for a real cut-and thrust debate about their heroes, but it takes all sorts.

bogbrush wrote:As for elitism, you misunderstand the word. Elitists want separation so they don't have to mix with another caste. Can you see who the elitists are now?

Separatists want separation, elistists look down on those they think are beneath them.

Yes BB that's exactly the sort of scathing opinion that started all these debates and Y I Man suggesting player sections.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

legendkillar wrote: If they don't like me or my posts, use the foe button.

I can't see how much easier you can make it for posters here.

Yes, it's that simple.

I think it may also help, when a couple of posters argue for a long time and really can stand each other, for the moderators to apply the foe bottom by default for a period of time, so to chill them out a bit.

We cant force the foe button. It is for each user to do.
NITB, regarding the feature, if you click on someones profile, on the top right there is an option to add them to your foe list.
Once foed, you will not see their posts, instead you see a comment where they have posted saying something like:

"This post was made by (members name) who is on your foe list. Click here to view post."

As I said in the op, the sections are just a suggestion and seeing if there is enough interest.

Calder106 wrote:Yes BB that's exactly the sort of scathing opinion that started all these debates and Y I Man suggesting player sections.

I don't know what the problem is that people have with facts.

Here's an example: Julius just corrected me on the matter of elitist v separatists and he's right, I have to accept that.

So have the separate sections if people want them, but don't try to dress it up in some high-minded principles; it's so people can hear what they want to hear, avoid discomforting alternatives, and have their prejudices reinforced.
I think from YI Mans perspective it's probably a good idea and it'll keep people who come on here with diametrically opposed motivations apart and save him a load of wasted effort.

Y I Man wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

legendkillar wrote: If they don't like me or my posts, use the foe button.

I can't see how much easier you can make it for posters here.

Yes, it's that simple.

I think it may also help, when a couple of posters argue for a long time and really can stand each other, for the moderators to apply the foe bottom by default for a period of time, so to chill them out a bit.

We cant force the foe button. It is for each user to do.
NITB, regarding the feature, if you click on someones profile, on the top right there is an option to add them to your foe list.
Once foed, you will not see their posts, instead you see a comment where they have posted saying something like:

"This post was made by (members name) who is on your foe list. Click here to view post."

As I said in the op, the sections are just a suggestion and seeing if there is enough interest.

Thanks.
Personally, I'd rather not stick my head in the sand. I survived all sort of stuff in 606, never succumbed to dirty waters, tried to have the long-term perspective.
This is not a huge forum, but there are a lot of different characters/age-groups and backgrounds and there are two ways it can go:
1) we can all try and exercise a bit of self-control and love, yes LOVE towards each other, esp towards those who know less, or are just "fan girls/boys", it's all part of colour and fun. Those who are senior in experience and knowledge can show their patience and grow this forum. Those with thin skin, I can only advise to try and grow the skin a bit thicker in refraining from replying to posts they perceive as "wumming". That's what I did on 606. Always ignored them. Somehow, there were always people who couldn't help themselves for some reason. Well, if you really love tennis, want this forum to last, have a good time, just IGNORE things you don't like. In time you may learn even to reply to them and not get annoyed.
2) we can all be selfish, vain, with or without justification and have a miserable place. I do understand that sometimes some people just need a bit of bickering, but don't give unless you can take.


My rant is now over. To 606v2 and all that are trying hard to keep it going

Y I Man wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

legendkillar wrote: If they don't like me or my posts, use the foe button.

I can't see how much easier you can make it for posters here.

Yes, it's that simple.

I think it may also help, when a couple of posters argue for a long time and really can stand each other, for the moderators to apply the foe bottom by default for a period of time, so to chill them out a bit.

We cant force the foe button. It is for each user to do.
NITB, regarding the feature, if you click on someones profile, on the top right there is an option to add them to your foe list.
Once foed, you will not see their posts, instead you see a comment where they have posted saying something like:

"This post was made by (members name) who is on your foe list. Click here to view post."

As I said in the op, the sections are just a suggestion and seeing if there is enough interest.

You want to mean a) you can't do that because your software does not allow you to do that, or b) you just believe that should be left it to the poster to decide whether to use it or not.

If the latter it is true, I personally would suggest you to consider it.

This kind of measure may be probably seen by posters as less punitive and possibly more constructively focused on keeping the place cool enough, rather than targeting on individual posters imo.

The software doesn't allow us Jeremy.

noleisthebest, as so often, summrises the position perfectly.

Each to their own BB.

We run this forum for the benefit of all the members, and if people want their own sections they can have them.

bogbrush wrote:

Calder106 wrote:Yes BB that's exactly the sort of scathing opinion that started all these debates and Y I Man suggesting player sections.

I don't know what the problem is that people have with facts.

Here's an example: Julius just corrected me on the matter of elitist v separatists and he's right, I have to accept that.

Here's another one: Wooffies threads are mainly about how Rafa looks and how she is emotionally attached to him. Anyone ever seen wooffiesrafaramblings?

So have the separate sections if people want them, but don't try to dress it up in some high-minded principles; it's so people can hear what they want to hear, avoid discomforting alternatives, and have their prejudices reinforced.
I think from YI Mans perspective it's probably a good idea and it'll keep people who come on here with diametrically opposed motivations apart and save him a load of wasted effort.

My post was actually in reply to your original post when you start calling people fanboys/fangirls. It diminishes any sensible opinion that you may have.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:You want to mean a) you can't do that because your software does not allow you to do that, or b) you just believe that should be left it to the poster to decide whether to use it or not.

If the latter it is true, I personally would suggest you to consider it.

This kind of measure may be probably seen by posters as less punitive and possibly more constructively focused on keeping the place cool enough, rather than targeting on individual posters imo.

No, no, a thousand times no!

This incites complete war and is immoral. The thread is not our personal possession, we make contributions be they articles or posts and they are there for the forum to respond to.
On 606 they had a rule where the author could not delete posts unless they broke house rules - in effect, they were made thread moderators - but it didn't work, people just deleted posts they disagreed with and turned threads in some cases into absurds lists of "this post has been deleted....".

The mechanism does not cool anythig down, it makes it far worse. Thank God the software doesn't allow it and iif it ever does then I'll be off the site that very day as I've no interest in coming onto a forum where people can delete your contributions according to their prejudices.

Y I Man wrote:Each to their own BB.

We run this forum for the benefit of all the members, and if people want their own sections they can have them.

Agree. My opinion is that you have to give them to them. I do think it'll kill the place, by the way, which would be a pity given the effort you put in and the potential but there's no alternative it seems.

Thats exactly the problem BB. I cant think of another alternative. (other than do nothing and just leave the section to it, which is also something I considered)

Y I Man wrote:Thats exactly the problem BB. I cant think of another alternative. (other than do nothing and just leave the section to it, which is also something I considered)

I love the smell of napalm in the morning..........

BB you are misunderstanding. The matter of discussion is "the foe button" and not the cancelletion of posts. What I was only pointing out is that, when two posters insult each other, using the foe button is probably the best way to chill them out. Apparently the admin are not able to activate themself this function though.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:BB you are misunderstanding. The matter of discussion is "the foe button" and not the cancelletion of posts. What I was only pointing out is that, when two posters insult each other, using the foe button is probably the best way to chill them out. Apparently the admin are not able to activate themself this function though.

Apols, I thought you meant the other.

Let's pause one moment and consider what modern day society has to say on the matter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q