Steve Williams loses it big time.

First topic message reminder :

Looks as though Steve Williams still has a big chip on his shoulder about being sacked by Woods.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-2057783/Tiger-Woods-ex-caddie-Steve-Williams-racism-storm.html

Discrimination only happens to the less powerful. If you are in the more powerful position of a society historically speaking, then you can't possibly claim discrination by the minority and less established.

Amazing that many don't realize this.

4putt wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:They are completely different situations.
Terry was aiming an insult directly at Ferdinand and was calling him a 'black c*nt'. Despite your rather odd comment it's was clear who Terry was addressing.
With Williams, it's seems to me that he was in a room where Woods wasn't present let alone directly engaged. He wanted to allude to him and used 'black' as one of a number of words he could have chosen to do so. The insult, once it's subject was identified was to call him an bumhole. That is to say the 'black' bit wasn't part of the insult, unlike Terry

IMO I do not think the Terry comment was racist. Terry was asking a question, "Hey, Anton, did you think I called you a black c*nt"? Not nice, but you can hardly be called a racist for repeating something you thought someone else said to you.
The big problem in both cases is the word, black. If the word, white, was transposed into both cases would we be bothering to comment on it?

Yes, JT has done nothing in the past to suggest he ever tells fibs. Oh hang on, what I meant to say is he is clearly a lying scumbag with a history of making things up to get him out of trouble.
There is no way Ferdinand would be remaining involved in this if he believed Terrys excuse, I believe there is now a second camera and another witness that also suggests Terry was lying.......again.

Diggers wrote:Yes, JT has done nothing in the past to suggest he ever tells fibs. Oh hang on, what I meant to say is he is clearly a lying scumbag with a history of making things up to get him out of trouble.
There is no way Ferdinand would be remaining involved in this if he believed Terrys excuse, I believe there is now a second camera and another witness that also suggests Terry was lying.......again.

So, from what your saying, Terry's lied in the past, so he must be guilty this time!!!! Strange form of logic. Why do you think at Law Courts pass convictions are not admissible as evidence?.

So what you are saying is Terry didn't lie and what he is saying must be true? And anything Ferdinand says presumably isn't true, how does that work?
I'm not a law court and am not bound by the same rules. I know Terry is a born liar as he had done so many times in the past to try to save his skin so I'm unlikely to take his word for something when given the option to trust him or not.
I'd be more than happy not to see him play for England again, him and Cole look shadows of their former playing selves this season so hopefully they wil be cleared out for new faces.

Simba wrote:Discrimination only happens to the less powerful. If you are in the more powerful position of a society historically speaking, then you can't possibly claim discrination by the minority and less established.

Amazing that many don't realize this.

'They've found us, I don't know how but they've found us, run for it Marty'

Diggers wrote:So what you are saying is Terry didn't lie and what he is saying must be true? And anything Ferdinand says presumably isn't true, how does that work?

No that's not what I said. I suggest you read what is written and not what you want to read.

I suggest you make your position clearer. Your first post said Terry wasn't a racist , am I wrong in therefore saying that you believe what he says to be the truth?

Simba wrote:What's astounding that in this day and age that someone still can't understand what racism is. I guess if you are not born with color, you're handicapped here.

MPB,

Explain this to me. How do you distinguish race? Is is not by the color of his skin? So, why would you mention the color of ones skin if you do not intend it to be part of that insult?

Calling someone fat, stupid, boorish, etc. is never as evil as implying someone is inferior because of his skin.

Clearly, I'm really troubled by your immune system to an obvious racism remark.

Such a load of rubbish I'm minded to hardly comment.
If you're not black you can't understand racism, discriminating against someone's race is worse than any other type of discrimination and any comment referring to race must be racist as why else mention it?

You my friend have an inferiority complex and on the basis you therefore consider a black person inferior I would suggest you are an odd form of racist indeed.

Have a look at yourself

Diggers wrote: Your first post said Terry wasn't a racist , am I wrong in therefore saying that you believe what he says to be the truth?

As he has admitted saying it and others heard him say it, I'd say that was a fair indication that he's telling the truth. If he's lying then so are the others who heard him say it.

Yes, they would be lying. So where's that leave Ferdinand in your view of what happened ?

Diggers wrote:Yes, they would be lying. So where's that leave Ferdinand in your view of what happened ?

My opinion about Ferdinand is neutral. I'll wait until all the facts come out in the wash.

Both PGA's have issued a joint statement saying that he's been a very naughty boy and drawn a line under it.

4putt wrote:

Diggers wrote:Yes, they would be lying. So where's that leave Ferdinand in your view of what happened ?

My opinion about Ferdinand is neutral. I'll wait until all the facts come out in the wash.

I'll wait for the facts as well, fortunately the police are involved so we wont just have an FA cover up. But I dont count Terry saying he's innocent and misunderstood as a fact......quite the opposite.

super_realist wrote:He should have just called him an ar$3hole. No one could have argued with that

You can't argue with the other word he used to describe him either - it's a fact. It's the word "ar$3hole" that is debatable but that's not racist. What a load of rubbish.

Quite frankly I'm getting fed up with this whole pious, precious PC attitude everyone is adopting - and not just on this forum. David Livingstone's demeanour on Sky at the start of the coverage yesterday and today made me think something really important had happened - perhaps someone had died. Williams is entitled to his opinion in a private setting - just as I am, and everyone else around the world is. The last tme I looked, we were still entitled to free speech - I can't remember the famous quote exactly (or who said it) but it goes something like: "I may not agree with what you say but I respect your right to say it".

LP - freedom of speech is not as simple as it sounds and is subject to limitations - the classic example being that you are not free to walk into a crowded auditorium and shout "fire, fire!"

I'm reluctant to quote Wikipedia as it's known that it is a fine repository of information when it comes to "facts" but can be misleading when it comes to "opinions" - this comes somewhere in between I suppose, but for the record Wiki states

In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, such as on libel, slander, obscenity, incitement to commit a crime, etc.

Racial hatred certainly comes under those limitations

MustPuttBetter wrote:

Simba wrote:What's astounding that in this day and age that someone still can't understand what racism is. I guess if you are not born with color, you're handicapped here.

MPB,

Explain this to me. How do you distinguish race? Is is not by the color of his skin? So, why would you mention the color of ones skin if you do not intend it to be part of that insult?

Calling someone fat, stupid, boorish, etc. is never as evil as implying someone is inferior because of his skin.

Clearly, I'm really troubled by your immune system to an obvious racism remark.

Such a load of rubbish I'm minded to hardly comment.
If you're not black you can't understand racism, discriminating against someone's race is worse than any other type of discrimination and any comment referring to race must be racist as why else mention it?

You my friend have an inferiority complex and on the basis you therefore consider a black person inferior I would suggest you are an odd form of racist indeed.

Have a look at yourself

MPB,

Please answer the question I asked. I did not accuse you of racism. I am just amazed at your blindness of it. It seems To me that you are the only one who's not getting it on this board. Racist comment may not offend all. But it offends those who were discriminated against due to the color of their skin. You are not black, I suppose. So you may not feel the same way as those who are. So you really have no way of knowing.

Again, I don't blame you. I only pity you for not being able to think in others shoes.

Let's reconstruct this picture in your minds.

You are the one black in the corporation. You cheated ur wife. You get castrated! You spit. You get publicly castrated again by media. You also get a fine. Now your former assistant keeps harassing you and then called you a black ar$ehole, in front a roomful of white people and your business associates and potential clients. Your big bosses don't even blink!

What would you think and what would you do?

If you are Tiger Woods, you just shrugg it off and keep smiling and keep whoring yourself to the same crowd!

The word is castigated Samba/Keizo/Max, not castrated.

No, super, castrated is really more like it! And it is what I intended.

btw, super,

Good to see that you haven't changed a bit. Still hanging on every word I say.

No samba, I just like to point out stupidity, of which you are a fine exponent

Simba if you think I'm the only one who doesn't agree with you then you clearly can't read and I pity you.
In fact, assuming you are black, the view you have of yourself is a very sad one and I sincerely pity you even more for that. That said, the view I have of you is a sad one so at least you're not alone.

I don't understand your question. If you're asking me if the only time it is possible to mention a persons skin colour is to insult them, my answer is no that's not true and is a ludicrous thing to say.

As you are so condescending as to think only black people can understand racism (as obviously racism is never subjected to white people) I am not surprised you are the sort to attach 'racist' to anything single thing you can. That you need to do that makes me pity you.

You don't have to be so ashamed of yourself to think that people might only want to refer to you as black to insult you. It's not an insult. Although you so deserve other insults

Even Donegan gets it;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/nov/05/caddie-williams-racial-slur-tiger-woods


Anyone seen this film yet;

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1454029/

I hope some of those failing to see the point on here like mustputtbetter go and see it, I would also hope you come out the cinema a little less ingnorent of the situation surrounding racism.

Mac I fully understand racism. I just don't think on this occasion this comment was racist.
You seem to think anyone mentioning race is being racist. You believe this makes you knowledgable and makes me ignorant because I disagree

That's your (narrow minded) view. I can only hope that I never become as enlightened, close minded, naive and linear as you in my thoughts you clown

MPB,

Assuming what color someone is over the Internet is a typical trait of prejudice. Why would the color of someone's skin ever matter in any conversation is beyond me. But apparently you are used to it. However you want to spin this Steve William incidence, it is not your opinion or mine that counts. It is what so many others who have been gravely offended by his remarks that counts. Least of all, it has nothing to do with my race which may happen to be the same as yours.

You, MPB, is a bigger fool on this matter than I thought. Don't take it personally. We all have our blind spots. Apparently and very unfortunately, yours is racism.

Simba wrote:MPB,

Assuming what color someone is over the Internet is a typical trait of prejudice. Why would the color of someone's skin ever matter in any conversation is beyond me. But apparently you are used to it. However you want to spin this Steve William incidence, it is not your opinion or mine that counts. It is what so many others who have been gravely offended by his remarks that counts. Least of all, it has nothing to do with my race which may happen to be the same as yours.

You, MPB, is a bigger fool on this matter than I thought. Don't take it personally. We all have our blind spots. Apparently and very unfortunately, yours is racism.

I assumed your skin colour as after telling me I knew nothing of racism as I was not black you then proceeded to tell me all the stuff you knew about racism. It's not a huge assumption is it? So either you are stupid or you're a hypocrite - which one is it?

And no, neither of our skin colours are relevant and I mentioned nothing of it until I was told I couldn't understand if I wasn't black thereby bringing my skin colour into relevance. Now who was it that said that? Oh, you

Am I correct in assuming you are the Tiger worshipping Simba from old 606? Pls confirm so I can establish that your view on this is, of course, totally biased

Samba, please look up the word pious in the dictionary, you'll find a reflective piece of glass.
Do us a favour and start up 606v2 USA so you can profer your opinion to someone who might actually care.
Having read the quote from Williams and Mpb's assessment the only person who is guilty of anything is you and MAC jumping on the 'let's be offended on other peoples behalf when there is no offence to be taken bandwagon'.

Simba
Why did you mention that the room was full of white people?
Was it ?

Doon the Water wrote:Simba
Why did you mention that the room was full of white people?
Was it ?

Of course it was, you do know it was a collection of the upper echelons of pro golf? Does it get any whiter?

Simba wrote:You are not black, I suppose. So you may not feel the same way as those who are. So you really have no way of knowing.

Simba wrote:MPB,

Assuming what color someone is over the Internet is a typical trait of prejudice.

Two quotes from you Simba. I'm sure even someone as stupid as you can see the irony here.
To save you answering my earlier question I'll save you the bother as the answer is clearly - hypocrite. And apparently prejudicial also by your logic

I think it's best now that you go away and save embarrassing yourself further

Y I Man wrote:Guys, can we please chill with the insults.
Also, please dont try and beat our swear filter by using asterisks.

Thanks

Agreed

To be honest it's probably time this thread was locked as it's been debated ad nauseum and we've got to the point where some have nothing to add on the point at hand. They just think you're ignorant if you have a different view.

Mac for example hasn't posted any thoughts of his own, just copied quotes and film links. He knows he's been told this is racist and believes he should think it but isn't actually clever enough to work out why or put that into his own words. Sad really for a chap that holds his own opinion in such high regard

It wouldn't be a bad idea to put a stop to all the fake outrage and false offence that people seem to be partial to these days. It stifles good debate.

Mustputt

I think i do understand why the comment was racist but if I didn't and those who it was aimed at told me it was I would be willing to accept that and try and learn more about the situation. It just seems in this case it is so obviously racist, even to a white middle class chap like myself.

MPB
I would agree on locking this page.
Decent debate went right out of the window a page ago.

MPB,

I didn't assume you were not Black. I know you weren't.:-)

Frankly, I care less what your color is. Just trying to explain to myself why you could be so blinded by Williams obvious racially derogatory comment. Just thought that you would be better off realizing your blind spot.

Yes, I have mines too. I am sure you will be eager to point it out to me too.

As to this debate, I like you no less and dislike you no more. It's just my take on your take. Don't take it personally.

super_realist wrote:It wouldn't be a bad idea to put a stop to all the fake outrage and false offence that people seem to be partial to these days. It stifles good debate.

Super,

Thought you were just an idiot only. Now you sounded like an bigoted idiot. There is nothing fake or false about this to the many black people and minorities who have experienced racism first hand.

Coming from you, why am I not surprised!

Simba wrote:MPB,

I didn't assume you were not Black. I know you weren't.:-)

Frankly, I care less what your color is.

And yet you saw fit to bring it up before telling me it wasnt relevant. Say no more. I don't see how you have any credible standing in this debate
I disagreed with Digs but we could at least have a reasoned discussion. Little boys like you and Mac couldn't manage that

For what its worth I do take being called ingorant personally, and I do like you less for the ultra hypocritical attitude you have taken. And I didn't like you much to start with

End of discussion for me

MPB,

Frankly, I don't give a darn what you think, with your attitude towards racism. MAC and I are the 'little boys' being nice trying to help you see the light. Now suit yourself whatever!

People who thinks that if you didn't mean it then it ought not to hurt others are either naive or using it as cop out. Once more, it's not what you think matters, it's what the recipients think that matters.

Simba wrote:MPB,

Frankly, I don't give a darn what you think, with your attitude towards racism. MAC and I are the 'little boys' being nice trying to help you see the light. Now suit yourself whatever!

You're the only one here telling people what they can and cannot understand based on their race. You have displayed many more racist traits than I. Racism can go in any direction. You have a restricted view and can keep your 'light' as it's blinded you.

I will suit myself thanks

Samba, I'm talking about the fake outrage of you and MAC and the over the top senationalism that the pair of you always add to such topics, not actually those who might be affected. How unusual for you to miss the point again....... or perhaps not .

Super,

Good of you to clarify. Because your other general statement might be construed differently.

Jesus Christ, and we thought keizo was annoying.

MustPuttBetter wrote:

You're the only one here telling people what they can and cannot understand based on their race. You have displayed many more racist traits than I. Racism can go in any direction. You have a restricted view and can keep your 'light' as it's blinded you.

I will suit myself thanks

Clever of you to twist my words. You are the one who came on here to tell everyone you don't think the obvious racist remark/insult by Steve Williams in front a whole crowd of people about a black colleague is racist remark. Now I am the racist for trying to understand your rational. Again, i am not saying yu have to be black to understand racism. I am saying that it might be helpful if you could put ur self in their shoes!

MPB, the more you twist this. The worse you appear to others. It will help if you just recognize that you didn't think that remark was racist from your point of view. But that does not mean that it is not racist.

Really, I don't care what you think now. It is you who have to live with it. Be yourself and suit yourself.

Can I add my vote to the "lock this thread" brigade?

Simba I'm glad that will help as that's exactly what I've said from the very start
And I've twisted no words. In fact I quoted your contradictions verbatim earlier but of course you declined to comment.

You have no idea of others view of either me or you but I know which one I'll go for.

As I say your hypocritical, self serving, narrow minded, contradictory view has left you no credible standing here.

Ned - absolutely right. Mods please oblige

As three of the regs on here have requested and it's degenerated into old 606 squabbles then I've locked the thread.