Degale Or Groves? The Hotter Prospect?

So a fantastic performance from Groves last night, but which do you think is the better prospect at this moment in time?

Now, Groves is still unbeaten and actually beat Degale and did a former victim of Degales in Smith in double quick time last night. I think at this moment in time it looks as though Degale is still struggling to find his actual style in the professional game, seems unsure as to whether to box off the back foot or front foot and sometimes gets caught thinking in the middle, but shows flashes of pure brilliance at times. Whereas Groves appears to understand the pro game a lot more and seems to be more versatile with his better boxing knowledge and understanding, however there is a decent shout that Degale has more raw talent.

So what do you boys reckon? Degale or Groves which one do we think at this stage will go further?

Groves looks the better prospect now. I think he would beat DeGale easier next time as well

Amazing how quick opinions change init

Groves looked good in this fight. DeGale not so good in his last one

I've never quite understood what "raw talent" means. Groves for me on aptitude alone.

I suppose as the saying goes "You're only as good as your last fight" applies then.

FreekShow wrote:I've never quite understood what "raw talent" means. Groves for me on aptitude alone.

More originally powerfully impressive talent than the other guy.

Groves said "IM THE CHAMP...IM THE CHAMP...BEAT YOU LIKE I DID LAST TIME"

Don't understand Steffan when he say that?

And he said "I reject the challenge because DeGale is no challenge. But I'd be happy to beat up on him some more. I always said he was nothing"

When did he say this (Again)

After he watched Rocky 3 I think

Back on topic please....

[quote="AlexHuckerby"]

FreekShow wrote:I've never quite understood what "raw talent" means. Groves for me on aptitude alone.[/quote

More originally powerfully impressive talent than the other guy.

What the other guy that beat you in the amateurs and the pro game? Is raw talent not just a tag for those that are quite not there yet?

AlexHuckerby wrote:Back on topic please....

Ok Windy...

[quote="FreekShow"]

AlexHuckerby wrote:

FreekShow wrote:I've never quite understood what "raw talent" means. Groves for me on aptitude alone.[/quote

More originally powerfully impressive talent than the other guy.

What the other guy that beat you in the amateurs and the pro game? Is raw talent not just a tag for those that are quite not there yet?

It is, but I said he has a decent shout for it as a lot of people have said it blimey.................

I'm going to get off the fence. I still think Degale has more natural ability. I think he is the hotter prospect. But I have to say I think Groves is a smarter fighter.... The UK SMW scene is hot right now. Both those two and Anderson could be future world title holders.

Hmm, not too sure about Anderson, think he is good, but a tad limited in my opinion, but a good fighter nevertheless, get a feeling he will end up as a fringe world level contender.

I think Groves has the potential to go further but it's tough because I do think Degale has that slight bit more natural ability also, however I don't know whether he can get himself sorted out and find the correct style to suit him.

Alex,
I don't disagree. Three very different fighters. In time, Anderson will be better than domestic/euro level but not sure if he will become truly "world class". Degale has all the attributes to make it, just not sure if he will work out how he will do it. Although I think he has so much natural talent it will carry him.

Groves sticks his chin out, has reasonable talent and seems able to learn and listen.

Throw into the mix Magee and Smith, its an interesting weight

Brian Magee falls short of world class also, was taken apart by Bute, but domestically and on the euro scene it looks great.

Do think there's a chance Bute is a bit special, though not fought anyone of great stature but who he has fought he has put on great performances, though the Andrade fight was tough for him, but everyone has a tough night on the way up.

Ward will be a tough cookie to crack, though you never know if Froch takes him out, but has also been dominant in his performances. So 2 really hard fighters there for them both at the top of the world scene, would like to see Degale want to slow down and milk his title at Euro level and fight Euro level opponents for a while as the world scene is very hard and think he needs to get himself sorted and turn himself into a complete fighter.

With Groves I would think that he's happy with where he is and he talks intelligently about his gameplan, seems to know he's not ready yet but knows that he needs to learn the trade fully, might be a tad difficult with degale holding the Euro belt to get Euro level fighters to come to Britain, but seems to know exactly what he's doing. Also has a good team behind him and Adam Boot speaks very intelligently about wha he wants and expects of him so think he should be ok. But again just worry about him as if there's something not quite there...

One fight does not change my view..

Degale outclassed smith for nine rounds and then stopped him, in his home town.

Groves done very well, in London and stopped him in two. I just think the styles meant that one of them where going to get knocked out and Grives made sure it was Smith, credit to him.

I think Groves has a bit more power than Degale but Degale is the better boxer. I still fancy Degale beating Groves when they next meet.

I think so far Degale has also proved to have the better chin, which is a good advantage. In fact after his last fight I think he has shown he has a pretty damn good chin.

I think Groves is mentally in a better position and knows he needs to improve, where Degale still has not really got his feet on the ground and I think he needs a really good trainer to get his head right and show him he can be as good as he wants but needs to keep working.

Steffan wrote:After he watched Rocky 3 I think

Groves defence still looks leaky and it could cost him as he moves up in class. However, another sensational win for him!

tunes666 wrote:One fight does not change my view..

Degale outclassed smith for nine rounds and then stopped him, in his home town.

Groves done very well, in London and stopped him in two. I just think the styles meant that one of them where going to get knocked out and Grives made sure it was Smith, credit to him.

I think Groves has a bit more power than Degale but Degale is the better boxer. I still fancy Degale beating Groves when they next meet.

I think so far Degale has also proved to have the better chin, which is a good advantage. In fact after his last fight I think he has shown he has a pretty damn good chin.

I think Groves is mentally in a better position and knows he needs to improve, where Degale still has not really got his feet on the ground and I think he needs a really good trainer to get his head right and show him he can be as good as he wants but needs to keep working.

Having a good chin is a good thing. Being in the situation to find that out is not so good. Degale took a lot of shots in his last fight, shots which a supposedly slick, 'naturally talented' guy should have avoided. I think he's stagnating in terms of developing his game.

You sound a bit bitter in your comparison of their relative performances against Smith. Sure, Degale 'schooled' Smith but Groves demolished him. No-one was expecting such a result in two rounds.

Shame we didn't get to see a bit more from Groves but the power looks very good, you don't stop Smith that easily, he's a tough man.

I don't think Degale is stagnating but I think he is struggling to find what style to use and how to make him suit him. Think the Groves fight messed him up a bit, because a lot of people were telling him what he was doing wrong so he tried doing soemthing different in his last fight and it wasn't particularly successful though he nicked the result.

AlexHuckerby wrote:So a fantastic performance from Groves last night, but which do you think is the better prospect at this moment in time?

Now, Groves is still unbeaten and actually beat Degale and did a former victim of Degales in Smith in double quick time last night. I think at this moment in time it looks as though Degale is still struggling to find his actual style in the professional game, seems unsure as to whether to box off the back foot or front foot and sometimes gets caught thinking in the middle, but shows flashes of pure brilliance at times. Whereas Groves appears to understand the pro game a lot more and seems to be more versatile with his better boxing knowledge and understanding, however there is a decent shout that Degale has more raw talent.

So what do you boys reckon? Degale or Groves which one do we think at this stage will go further?

Alex H, you are spot on that DeGale looks unsure and confused as to what he's doing. He was impressive against Smith controlling the pace but didn't follow that up against Groves and the Polish chap whose name escapes me right now. Great credit for grinding out the win but you do feel he has the natural talent to make it easier. He is in between being aggressive and throwing quick punches and then trying to do his Floyd impersonation when moving around the ring where he ends up shipping punches.

DeGale seems more talented but until he can realise this, it's got to be Groves for me. He's focused, hits hard and has shown he can fight to plan. All power to him.

Olympic medal aside I'm struggling to see now how people are continuing to say that Degale is more talented. There is no way on Earth that Degale would have landed that punch that Groves knocked Smith out with, in the past Degale has tended to swarm opponents and forced the ref to step in.

Degale is beggining to look a hype job to me. He slaps, he's stupid, I mean he's actually really thick in and out of the ring and he's with the wrong trainer.

one thing i worry with degale is hes talking about a world title next year i cant honestly believe he is ready.

Groves is the better boxer and the hotter prospect, he is still improving at what looks a fast pace and seems to have all tools, Degale looks very average since his opposition has got better and i am not expecting to see any great improvement from him now. I fancy if Groves fights him again and this time plants his feet for a few more power shots he could have a far easier nights work than the first time round. Too be honest if the inexperienced Groves could beat Degale what will a constantly improving Groves do to him when he has matured and got another years experience under his belt.

AlexHuckerby wrote:one thing i worry with degale is hes talking about a world title next year i cant honestly believe he is ready.

Looked distinctly average in his last outing, not even close to world level, he'll get shown up if he does. That said, who's the Warren Boxing Organisation world champ at the moment? Steiglitz? Could be there for the taking in 12-18 months.....

will be kessler when he batters stieglitz

Groves is certainly the more exciting at this point. Great ko of Smith and the win over Degale. Groves is leaky in defense as someone said above but offensively he is prettty good and seems to have genuine snap in his punches. Deglae is still a work in progress, they both are, so time will ultimatley be the telling factor.

kessler v Degale now that I`d like to see

Kessler would eat Degale for bbreakfast at this point. Degale is too flawed to compete at highest level just yet, but he has time.

Goves beat DeGail.

/thread

To me, Groves looks like the sort of guy who's going to lose a fight he's expected to win at some point. I don't think either of them are that good.

I actually think they're both very decent fighters, supercert, but not sure as to whether they can go on to dominate at world level.

I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Groves, I too can see him getting flattened at some point by someone he is expected to beat with relative ease, such is his style.

Welcome, by the way, how'd you hear about us?

Fists of Fury wrote:I actually think they're both very decent fighters, supercert, but not sure as to whether they can go on to dominate at world level.

I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Groves, I too can see him getting flattened at some point by someone he is expected to beat with relative ease, such is his style.

Welcome, by the way, how'd you hear about us?

Cheers.

Just stumbled across it, was reading for a while, thought my opinion on Groves was of such importance that it would be a shame not to share it with the learned forumites on here.

The only reason I can see for people thinking Groves will lose a fight in this manner is the Anderson scrap. Nothing else out there to suggest it.

He did get caught by Smith toward the end of round 1 with a decent shot, KM. Against a big puncher that spells danger. That is his issue, totally dominating a round only to leave himself open at the very end, and that is something he does need to iron out.

Glad you decided to contribute, supercert. Any problems/questions with anything just let me know.

Agree Fists about the shot at the end of the first, think given the impressive nature of the stoppage it perhaps led to this blip being underplayed, because Groves was seriously buzzed and Smith is by no means a massive puncher at supermiddle. On the back of Anderson having him on rubbery legs for a while it does suggest the chin could be an issue as he moves up in class because he does seem to have a tendency to get caught by the odd stupid shot.

Indeed, his eyes were still clear and his legs seemed ok which is a good sign, but he certainly was going to have to cover up and go into survival mode for a bit had that shot not been landed right at the end of the round.

It is a worry, for sure, as regardless of your chin you simply can't afford to be getting hit with shots like that at world level against some seriously big punchers who know how to finish a fight.

I think Groves is a world champion in the making; DeGale, I'm not so sure about right now.

There seem to be a lot of concerns over Groves' defence - not totally unfounded, I'll admit - but I'd say that DeGale's has been looking more leaky, which seems to go unnoticed at times. Not sure what the hell McDonnell is teaching him when it comes to defence, but whatever it is, DeGale seems to be paying little attention - that right hand is so low it's ridiculous, and as much as he tells us otherwise, DeGale's lateral movement alone isn't cute enough to evade the punches of the top Super-Middleweights in the world. In short, I see defence as an area where the both of them need to improve, rather than just Groves.

But that aside, the cards are stacked in Groves' favour. If he can sort out that tendancy to get sloppy when he's in control and learn to outmuscle an opponent on the inside a little more, he can go far, even in a (currently) tough division like 168 lb. He's much faster than people give him credit for, has a good dig (and the knockouts seem to still be flowing as he gradually steps up his competition, always a good sign) and, crucially, has a superb attitude and temperament. I was stunned at his performance against DeGale - not necessarily because it was an awe-inspiring one (the fight itself was anything but awe-inspiring) but because I didn't think Groves had the discipline and adaptability to box such a controlled fight for twelve rounds, given his previous rush of blood episodes. He's an intelligent fighter, whereas DeGale, to me, seems the complete opposite. If he can't lure his opponent in to his immediate punching zone to unleash those flurries of his, he seems lost.

Right now, they both have some improving to do if they're going to make world level, but I'd say DeGale has a fair bit more if it to do than Groves does.

What I like about Groves is the talk of him/Booth. All about improving, getting good sparring, fighting often. For that reason I pick Groves.

Chris think the difference between the two is Groves knows he is not the finished article and is willing to accept this and learn from every performance. Get the impression Degale thinks he is already the goods. Remember reading his post Groves interviews and all he seemed to go on about was that he deserved to get the nod, whether you agree with this his failure to acknowledge his lack of adaptability or any kind of plan B when Groves did not fight as he expected is a huge concern

Yeah i'm with Scott, i'm pleased for Groves as it looked like he was stalling, and i'll respect anybody who looks to improve and fights often, whether they can fight or not, plus Degale is a tool and i want to see him fail, then i won't have to listen to his gangsta talk anymore, not only does he look a bit retarded but he sounds retarded.

You trying to tell me GG you don't find his "you've got ginger hair and bad breath" routine hilarious? You're a hard man to please.

Agree wholeheartedly with that, Jeff, and as Booth pointed out afterwards, it's that sort of attitude which contributed to him losing the decision in the first place. He doesn't seem interested in ironing out his flaws or accepting that maybe he hasn't got everything in the professional game sussed out, instead he seems to be under the impression that his speed and reputation will win him fights alone.

rowley wrote:You trying to tell me GG you don't find his "you've got ginger hair and bad breath" routine hilarious? You're a hard man to please.

It was a little funny Jeff, but not as funny as Jim McDonald jumping about before the result was finished being announced.

Likewise, GG, I loved seeing DeGale begin to wheel away in celebration when the MC said, "....and still undefeated...", obviously too daft to realise that his opponent that night had his '0' intact, too. I wouldn't normally take any pleasure in seeing a boxer make a bit of a plank of himself like that, but DeGale just makes it so easy to dislike him, it's hard not to.