Degale Or Groves? The Hotter Prospect?

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So a fantastic performance from Groves last night, but which do you think is the better prospect at this moment in time?

Now, Groves is still unbeaten and actually beat Degale and did a former victim of Degales in Smith in double quick time last night. I think at this moment in time it looks as though Degale is still struggling to find his actual style in the professional game, seems unsure as to whether to box off the back foot or front foot and sometimes gets caught thinking in the middle, but shows flashes of pure brilliance at times. Whereas Groves appears to understand the pro game a lot more and seems to be more versatile with his better boxing knowledge and understanding, however there is a decent shout that Degale has more raw talent.

So what do you boys reckon? Degale or Groves which one do we think at this stage will go further?

One of my highlights of the year that, Chris.

Too many people wrote off DeGale after losing to Groves. However - if we're really honest its a fight that should have been scored a draw. It was insanely close - and the backlash against DeGale has more to do with his chat before the fight than what actually occurred.

I had DeGale by a point - as I had him winning the last round. 2 of the 3 judges, somehow gave that round to Groves and the rest is history. (lest we forget it was one of the few rounds in the fight where DeGale landed more AND controlled the ring).

So with regards to who is the better prospect - I'd say they're pretty even. Smith is a decent enough boxer - but styles make fights and his style helped Groves last weekend.

DeGale hasn't decided, unfortunately what he is going to do as a pro and how he plans to fighht. I, personally don't feel he does well off the back foot - he doesn't quite time people coming in that well - and ends up looking a bit like a slightly less accomplished version of Junior Witter.

Were Groves and DeGale to fight again - I'd back DeGale to nick a close fight.

The fight was close enough to mandate a rematch - and I wouldn't be surprised to see a trilogy.

I think DeGale will be likely to pick up some form of cheap belt that Frank buys for him and defend it against fighters that bit short of World Level. Kind of were Cleverly is headed.

I don't buy all this "he has raw talent" and "more natural ability". Lets not forgot, Audley Harrison had all this and he became a drawing board addict.

I like Groves' attitude regarding staying domestic and defending his British and Commonwealth Belts until he has learnt his trade to the point were he is ready to move on. This seems to be the complete opposite of DeGale. Degale seems to think that its a race to see who can get a world title shot first.

I think by the time each of them are fighting for world honours, Groves will have learnt more by keeping his feet on the ground and paying attention to the basic fundimentals of boxing rather that chasing some media attention and a micky mouse belt. Granted, Groves will win a micky mouse belt, but it will mean 10 times more as he will have earned it the hard way.

So I pick Groves as the hottest prospect.

oxring wrote:Too many people wrote off DeGale after losing to Groves. However - if we're really honest its a fight that should have been scored a draw. It was insanely close - and the backlash against DeGale has more to do with his chat before the fight than what actually occurred.

I had DeGale by a point - as I had him winning the last round. 2 of the 3 judges, somehow gave that round to Groves and the rest is history. (lest we forget it was one of the few rounds in the fight where DeGale landed more AND controlled the ring).

So with regards to who is the better prospect - I'd say they're pretty even. Smith is a decent enough boxer - but styles make fights and his style helped Groves last weekend.

DeGale hasn't decided, unfortunately what he is going to do as a pro and how he plans to fighht. I, personally don't feel he does well off the back foot - he doesn't quite time people coming in that well - and ends up looking a bit like a slightly less accomplished version of Junior Witter.

Were Groves and DeGale to fight again - I'd back DeGale to nick a close fight.

The fight was close enough to mandate a rematch - and I wouldn't be surprised to see a trilogy.

I don't agree that people wrote DeGale off following that loss at all. The talk seemed to be more about how he was robbed or it was very close, or he just had an off night. Most of it still seemed to focus around this 'natural ability' point, with many people using it to take the shine of Groves' performance with "yeh, but.." caveats and further build up/save face from their pre-fight predictions for DeGale.

Also don't think it's right to say it should have been a draw, it was a close fight and the judges gave their scores (with no dodgy cards) - decision win to Groves. The fact that I scored it to Groves by a point and you to DeGale by the same margin is irrelevant, only 3 opinions matter and neither of ours are they.

More concerning was DeGale's performance in taking the Euro strap. Given all his, his trainer's, his promoter's and most pundits' (incl forum members) assertions, he should have cleaned house. Instead he put in a laboured performance, showed little of this supreme natural talent everyone talks about (other than in small bursts) and got caught a hell of a lot (which I thought was a worse sign than Groves getting caught once by Smith which was just sloppy at the end of the round and you could see how angry he was with himself for it when he went back to his corner).

DeGale needs to drop his attitude, and his trainer to be frank and sort his sh!t out if he's going to make anything of his talent. Both Groves and DeGale can and should be title belt holders though neither should be rushed. The biggest block to DeGale is himself unfortunately. Whilst I can see Groves eventually get dropped by someone he shouldn't and losing, I think there's as much risk if not more of JDG trying to progress to rapidly and just getting a hiding somewhere along the line which could be confidence shattering.

i was one of the few who tipped groves to win in there fight because i really felt that groves was an awful lot better than most thought and at the time had been pushed to have more experience at a higher level. i think a lot of us here seem to be forgetting as to just how much "natural ability" young george has...

I would have to say the hotter prospect is Groves,

Hes going about the pro game in the right way, not trying to move to quickly but just learning his trade at the right level. The thing for me that makes the difference between the two is Groves patience. He's happy taking his time and is eager to learn & improve. Where as DeGale in my opinion is believing his hype to much and trying to move to quickly. I feel DeGale is shooting himself in the foot really by telling the world he's the greatest, winning a euro strap in your 12th fight is a great achievement but due to his character it takes the shine off the win as people expected a better performance.

Both will be right up there in terms of world level, but i can see Groves being more equipped and experienced to take these big fights on.

TopHat24/7 wrote:
I don't agree that people wrote DeGale off following that loss at all. The talk seemed to be more about how he was robbed or it was very close, or he just had an off night. Most of it still seemed to focus around this 'natural ability' point, with many people using it to take the shine of Groves' performance with "yeh, but.." caveats and further build up/save face from their pre-fight predictions for DeGale.

Also don't think it's right to say it should have been a draw, it was a close fight and the judges gave their scores (with no dodgy cards) - decision win to Groves. The fact that I scored it to Groves by a point and you to DeGale by the same margin is irrelevant, only 3 opinions matter and neither of ours are they.

More concerning was DeGale's performance in taking the Euro strap.

But it was the Euro strap. I would not say either man is at that level yet. To be frank - they are still both just above domestic level fighters for me. Wilczecski (sp) has been in with - and beaten some reasonable operators - Asikainen is no mug. So the fact that DeGale didn't shut him out wasn't a total surprise to me.

If we want to be one-sided - we'd say that Groves has just knocked out a small domestic SMW who had already been beaten by DeGale. Meanwhile DeGale has won himself a Euro title in his comeback fight and a shot at the WBO SMW title - and Stieglitz isn't that great. 1 year will probably see DeGale with the WBO belt.

What's Groves' route to the title? Bute away? Bute would hammer Groves at this point in his career.

So when we say that Groves is the better prospect - it should probably be with the consideration that DeGale will almost certainly be walked into a world title fight by the Warren boxing organisation. He can box - and as I said above - when he fights off the front foot he can sometimes look quite classy. Personally I reckon that McDonnell is a reasonable trainer - and could get a lot out of DeGale. Its not as though he's turning up out of shape for fights, is it? This isn't a Gavin question where we have to seriously doubt a fighter's love for the sport.

My question marks for Groves still haven't been answered. I am not convinced by his defence. Against the next tier of competition - that could prove a problem as he could get frequently stunned in fights. I mentioned above promotional issues - he still isn't the first name in fight fans heads in the UK, has too much inactivity/press inactivity - and I don' see his route to the title at this point in his career.

At this moment - there's a reasonable possibility that DeGale wins the WBO and defends it against mandatories for a while, whilst Groves wins a WBA/WBC/IBF against a better champion, Froch-style in about 3/4 years time. There's a lot to like about Groves - but I still don't see he's nailed on as the better prospect.

oxring wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:
I don't agree that people wrote DeGale off following that loss at all. The talk seemed to be more about how he was robbed or it was very close, or he just had an off night. Most of it still seemed to focus around this 'natural ability' point, with many people using it to take the shine of Groves' performance with "yeh, but.." caveats and further build up/save face from their pre-fight predictions for DeGale.

Also don't think it's right to say it should have been a draw, it was a close fight and the judges gave their scores (with no dodgy cards) - decision win to Groves. The fact that I scored it to Groves by a point and you to DeGale by the same margin is irrelevant, only 3 opinions matter and neither of ours are they.

More concerning was DeGale's performance in taking the Euro strap.

But it was the Euro strap. I would not say either man is at that level yet. To be frank - they are still both just above domestic level fighters for me. Wilczecski (sp) has been in with - and beaten some reasonable operators - Asikainen is no mug. So the fact that DeGale didn't shut him out wasn't a total surprise to me.

If we want to be one-sided - we'd say that Groves has just knocked out a small domestic SMW who had already been beaten by DeGale. Meanwhile DeGale has won himself a Euro title in his comeback fight and a shot at the WBO SMW title - and Stieglitz isn't that great. 1 year will probably see DeGale with the WBO belt.

What's Groves' route to the title? Bute away? Bute would hammer Groves at this point in his career.

So when we say that Groves is the better prospect - it should probably be with the consideration that DeGale will almost certainly be walked into a world title fight by the Warren boxing organisation. He can box - and as I said above - when he fights off the front foot he can sometimes look quite classy. Personally I reckon that McDonnell is a reasonable trainer - and could get a lot out of DeGale. Its not as though he's turning up out of shape for fights, is it? This isn't a Gavin question where we have to seriously doubt a fighter's love for the sport.

My question marks for Groves still haven't been answered. I am not convinced by his defence. Against the next tier of competition - that could prove a problem as he could get frequently stunned in fights. I mentioned above promotional issues - he still isn't the first name in fight fans heads in the UK, has too much inactivity/press inactivity - and I don' see his route to the title at this point in his career.

At this moment - there's a reasonable possibility that DeGale wins the WBO and defends it against mandatories for a while, whilst Groves wins a WBA/WBC/IBF against a better champion, Froch-style in about 3/4 years time. There's a lot to like about Groves - but I still don't see he's nailed on as the better prospect.

you realise kessler will be holding the WBO in a short while after stieglitz is taken out. just saying

Did anyone else notice how annoyed frank was when Smith went down!! He did not look pleased that Groves was going for the finish either. GG may be part of his stable but its safe to say Frank has brought him in to ensure he milks him for a little while before putting him back in with Degale & hoping that James comes out on top (i say hope im sure Frank could pull strings to ensure he does) before unceramoniusly dumping the Saint!

owen10ozzy wrote:Did anyone else notice how annoyed frank was when Smith went down!! He did not look pleased that Groves was going for the finish either. GG may be part of his stable but its safe to say Frank has brought him in to ensure he milks him for a little while before putting him back in with Degale & hoping that James comes out on top (i say hope im sure Frank could pull strings to ensure he does) before unceramoniusly dumping the Saint!

more to do with the ref letting him continue because smith was done as smith is a nice little earner for him and doesnt want to see him get hurt.think thats a tad more realistic than these mental conspiracy theories that hes got it in for one of his hottest prospects that sells out decent sized arenas...

Yea Alex, seen it that way myself.

Frank jumped out of his seat the second the ref did the count and continued to let Smith fight on.

I have no time for Warren, but he was annoyed with the ref for letting a bloke who could barely stand up box on.
Groves looks the one who is improving if i am honest i think in 18 months time Groves will be regarded as a different level from Degale. I do laugh when people talk about the natural ability of Degale when all i see is a bloke with average hand speed, nothing special power, very average defence, poor footwork he even struggles to throw a punch correctly. Take Frank Warren's hype and the gold medal out of the equation and he would just be another reasonable prospect on his way up.
I have to admire old Frank Warren though he has managed to convince so many people and even some proper boxing fans that Degale is somehow a huge natural talent. Degale is the emperors new clothes of boxing.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

oxring wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:
I don't agree that people wrote DeGale off following that loss at all. The talk seemed to be more about how he was robbed or it was very close, or he just had an off night. Most of it still seemed to focus around this 'natural ability' point, with many people using it to take the shine of Groves' performance with "yeh, but.." caveats and further build up/save face from their pre-fight predictions for DeGale.

Also don't think it's right to say it should have been a draw, it was a close fight and the judges gave their scores (with no dodgy cards) - decision win to Groves. The fact that I scored it to Groves by a point and you to DeGale by the same margin is irrelevant, only 3 opinions matter and neither of ours are they.

More concerning was DeGale's performance in taking the Euro strap.

But it was the Euro strap. I would not say either man is at that level yet. To be frank - they are still both just above domestic level fighters for me. Wilczecski (sp) has been in with - and beaten some reasonable operators - Asikainen is no mug. So the fact that DeGale didn't shut him out wasn't a total surprise to me.

If we want to be one-sided - we'd say that Groves has just knocked out a small domestic SMW who had already been beaten by DeGale. Meanwhile DeGale has won himself a Euro title in his comeback fight and a shot at the WBO SMW title - and Stieglitz isn't that great. 1 year will probably see DeGale with the WBO belt.

What's Groves' route to the title? Bute away? Bute would hammer Groves at this point in his career.

So when we say that Groves is the better prospect - it should probably be with the consideration that DeGale will almost certainly be walked into a world title fight by the Warren boxing organisation. He can box - and as I said above - when he fights off the front foot he can sometimes look quite classy. Personally I reckon that McDonnell is a reasonable trainer - and could get a lot out of DeGale. Its not as though he's turning up out of shape for fights, is it? This isn't a Gavin question where we have to seriously doubt a fighter's love for the sport.

My question marks for Groves still haven't been answered. I am not convinced by his defence. Against the next tier of competition - that could prove a problem as he could get frequently stunned in fights. I mentioned above promotional issues - he still isn't the first name in fight fans heads in the UK, has too much inactivity/press inactivity - and I don' see his route to the title at this point in his career.

At this moment - there's a reasonable possibility that DeGale wins the WBO and defends it against mandatories for a while, whilst Groves wins a WBA/WBC/IBF against a better champion, Froch-style in about 3/4 years time. There's a lot to like about Groves - but I still don't see he's nailed on as the better prospect.

you realise kessler will be holding the WBO in a short while after stieglitz is taken out. just saying

He's only got some WBO Euro belt - rather than the WBO intercontinental (DeGale's). Now I'm a touch hazy on the intricacies of the alphabelts - however - isn't the WBO intercontinental more senior than the WBO Euro - ie - doesn't DeGale get his shot before Kessler?

That's if Kessler wants a WBO trinket. Last I heard he was looking for a Bute fight in Canada. Certainly the money and challenge option.

oxring wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

oxring wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:
I don't agree that people wrote DeGale off following that loss at all. The talk seemed to be more about how he was robbed or it was very close, or he just had an off night. Most of it still seemed to focus around this 'natural ability' point, with many people using it to take the shine of Groves' performance with "yeh, but.." caveats and further build up/save face from their pre-fight predictions for DeGale.

Also don't think it's right to say it should have been a draw, it was a close fight and the judges gave their scores (with no dodgy cards) - decision win to Groves. The fact that I scored it to Groves by a point and you to DeGale by the same margin is irrelevant, only 3 opinions matter and neither of ours are they.

More concerning was DeGale's performance in taking the Euro strap.

But it was the Euro strap. I would not say either man is at that level yet. To be frank - they are still both just above domestic level fighters for me. Wilczecski (sp) has been in with - and beaten some reasonable operators - Asikainen is no mug. So the fact that DeGale didn't shut him out wasn't a total surprise to me.

If we want to be one-sided - we'd say that Groves has just knocked out a small domestic SMW who had already been beaten by DeGale. Meanwhile DeGale has won himself a Euro title in his comeback fight and a shot at the WBO SMW title - and Stieglitz isn't that great. 1 year will probably see DeGale with the WBO belt.

What's Groves' route to the title? Bute away? Bute would hammer Groves at this point in his career.

So when we say that Groves is the better prospect - it should probably be with the consideration that DeGale will almost certainly be walked into a world title fight by the Warren boxing organisation. He can box - and as I said above - when he fights off the front foot he can sometimes look quite classy. Personally I reckon that McDonnell is a reasonable trainer - and could get a lot out of DeGale. Its not as though he's turning up out of shape for fights, is it? This isn't a Gavin question where we have to seriously doubt a fighter's love for the sport.

My question marks for Groves still haven't been answered. I am not convinced by his defence. Against the next tier of competition - that could prove a problem as he could get frequently stunned in fights. I mentioned above promotional issues - he still isn't the first name in fight fans heads in the UK, has too much inactivity/press inactivity - and I don' see his route to the title at this point in his career.

At this moment - there's a reasonable possibility that DeGale wins the WBO and defends it against mandatories for a while, whilst Groves wins a WBA/WBC/IBF against a better champion, Froch-style in about 3/4 years time. There's a lot to like about Groves - but I still don't see he's nailed on as the better prospect.

you realise kessler will be holding the WBO in a short while after stieglitz is taken out. just saying

He's only got some WBO Euro belt - rather than the WBO intercontinental (DeGale's). Now I'm a touch hazy on the intricacies of the alphabelts - however - isn't the WBO intercontinental more senior than the WBO Euro - ie - doesn't DeGale get his shot before Kessler?

That's if Kessler wants a WBO trinket. Last I heard he was looking for a Bute fight in Canada. Certainly the money and challenge option.

no he refused the fight because bute wanted the fight in canada... the fight between kessler and stieglitz was made and they were in the training camp stage but kessler pulled out due to injury and the fight is being prepared for earlyish next year and i think kessler will hammer him... but i suppose even so kessler may be the weakest champ of the lot.