Wilkinson spits the dummy out over RWC Balls

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Wilkinson slams World Cup organisers

Quite frankly this outburst is Embarrasing. The other kickers in the world cup missed a few but to be honest to lambast the organisers in this way is terrible.

I used to have a lot of time for Wilko. He is a talented fly half who tackles well and kicks very well. To exoplode like this in a national newspaper and his autobiography is poor reflection on someone who I held in high regard as a player and an ambassador of the sport.

I could rattle through the kickers that seemed to have no problem with the balls but I think you already know who they are.

Terrible rant from Wilko though

luckless_pedestrian wrote:If he's angry, fair enough; but his missed kicks didn't cost England victory at the World Cup. I'd have more sympathy with Stephen Jones or James Hook if they came out criticising the match balls, but funnily enough they haven't blamed the balls for their missed kicks.

No, we all know they are rubbish kickers.

What was Dan Carters excuse though?


Its pretty obvious there was an issue with the balls at the cup, the kicking was laughable at times with ridiculously low pecentages. It fundamentaly changes the balance of the game, all just for a sponsorship agreement.
There should be no shame in Jonny having the guts to come out.

I said right from the start this was the new balls not being kicked in. The same happened in 07.

I don't care that the IRB and Gilbert say these balls were tested, because that is footwork around the truth. The MATCH BALLS WERE ALL NEW.

The Bladders uneven inside the skin, which forces the balls flight to alter drastically from high energy kicks.

(As a high level National Volleyball player, I know all about movement/airflow and energy transfer on round balls due to 'float serving'. Due to the shape of the Rugby ball this energy transfer and weight on the strike makes it harder to predict. But people like Wilko, Carter and Paterson are masters at this).

For the professional kicker like Wilco this is a bitter pill to swallow, its hard to adjust technique yet alone during the World Cup. Some kickers had a better time of it due to their technique. Kickers who stroked the ball at less pace with lots of follow through had a far better time than the kickers who kick with a strike and a quick leg swing.

The facts are thus, he's one of the best kickers in the world and himself and others struggled to kick points that were there for the taking. Thats NOT what fans want to see, whats the point in earning penalties in the opponents half if you can't get the points due to the erroneous ball flight.

It was a disgrace that something so simple was overlooked yet again in the World Cup and if I was that cynical I'd be wondering if this was a deliberate ploy to remover the reliance of the boot and favour the Try.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:If he's angry, fair enough; but his missed kicks didn't cost England victory at the World Cup. I'd have more sympathy with Stephen Jones or James Hook if they came out criticising the match balls, but funnily enough they haven't blamed the balls for their missed kicks.

No, we all know they are rubbish kickers.

What, because they missed kicks at the World Cup? By that logic Jonny Wilkinson's a rubbish kicker too, and we know he isn't.

damage_13 wrote:I said right from the start this was the new balls not being kicked in. The same happened in 07.

I don't care that the IRB and Gilbert say these balls were tested, because that is footwork around the truth. The MATCH BALLS WERE ALL NEW.

The Bladders uneven inside the skin, which forces the balls flight to alter drastically from high energy kicks.

(As a high level National Volleyball player, I know all about movement/airflow and energy transfer on round balls due to 'float serving'. Due to the shape of the Rugby ball this energy transfer and weight on the strike makes it harder to predict. But people like Wilko, Carter and Paterson are masters at this).

For the professional kicker like Wilco this is a bitter pill to swallow, its hard to adjust technique yet alone during the World Cup. Some kickers had a better time of it due to their technique. Kickers who stroked the ball at less pace with lots of follow through had a far better time than the kickers who kick with a strike and a quick leg swing.

The facts are thus, he's one of the best kickers in the world and himself and others struggled to kick points that were there for the taking. Thats NOT what fans want to see, whats the point in earning penalties in the opponents half if you can't get the points due to the erroneous ball flight.

It was a disgrace that something so simple was overlooked yet again in the World Cup and if I was that cynical I'd be wondering if this was a deliberate ploy to remover the reliance of the boot and favour the Try.

ok man cheers- so the problem is more to do with them being brand new rather than a new design!

and we get a little conspiracy theory as well. Nice allways a good debating point- lol(not being sacrhastic) although they do have a habbit of bringing down a thread

yes, all the rhetoric and denials issued and regurgitated by the press did not focus on the actual complaint issued by players in this world cup (and the last one too).

The balls may indeed be better and fly true (its what they were DESIGNED to do).

But if they are not kicked in then pockets of air are unevenly distributed and this effects the balls flight. Great in football and Volleyball, but not great in Rugby, its bad enough kicking an oval ball.

But like I said, some kickers had a better success rate due to their technique (strike and follow through).

damage_13 wrote:
(As a high level National Volleyball player, I know all about movement/airflow and energy transfer on round balls due to 'float serving').

I agree with what your saying but sorry you could replace High Level National Volleyball player to high level national farter and that quote would still work!

LOL

So how come other kickers haven't complained and didn't miss as many as St Wilkinson then ? Smacks of sour grapes to me

I think most kickers had much poorer kicking percentages than they usually have - and you've got to say the change of rugby balls must have been a significant factor in this. Also I think Wilko was affected to a greater degree because a much greater part of his game is based around kicking than other FH's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8873746/Jonny-Wilkinson-says-England-players-were-naive-off-the-pitch-and-lacked-hunger-on-it-during-dismal-World-Cup.html

I think his other comments were more interesting to be honest. It seemed from the outside that there was something lacking in the England camp and that apparently was the case.

Maybe I didn't word that right.

You have to train and play at a high level to understand and execute a decent float serve, consistently and in the right place. The float serve is about GETTING the ball to move where you want by use of the valve and technique.

I was trying to add weight to my argument, I know what I'm talking about as there are similarities.

I know what you were getting at damage and agree with your point - especially the consistency part, definately if you're talking about a high level of performance.

I was just trying to be funny as some time the air does flow around the balls in an interesting way...

righto

What people are missing here is that JW is not specifically talking about the kicks for goal. He is also talking about the kicks out of hand. How many over cooked and under cooked kicks did we see through all the matches.

Its not purely down to the place kicks.

maybe that's because the way of striking the kicks out of hand are all similar (high energy punch) Although again, some of the slower kickers seemed to keep the balls flying true, straight and low.

I was just making that point because some posters still feel as if JW is using this as an excuse for England going out. I am just saying that it is not all down to missed points but also down to kicks out of hand going wrong.

I agree, but I'm not sure the stats of those kind of kicks will easily show the reasons for this failure, too many other variables.

The place kick (like a serve in other sports) is the only part to the game where you have complete total control of the ball and within your own time.

I'm thinking that some posters have not read the interview properly.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
I was just trying to be funny as some time the air does flow around the balls in an interesting way...

Thats why most rugby players where those Nioke Pro under shorts now

damage13, it may not be statistically readable as the place kicks but it was evidently clear when watching the matches that many players had trouble kicking the ball from hand.

As i said earlier, JW is one of the games greatest ever kickers and is a very humble man so if he says that there were problems with the ball, then i will believe him. He also sad that England werent good enough as a team to advance futher in the RWC so i can hardly see his comments as being sou grapes or spitting the dummy.

I dont think anyone can deny that there was a problem with the balls, it was not before during and after the cup by a number of people. Wilkos views are getting directly rep[roted now because he is high profile and doing interviews about it.
The debate about dummy spitting and his worth as human being as usual seems to come down to "he's English". Its up there with some of the ridiculious bile aimed at Courtney Lawes in that other thread. It doesnt help when healdine writers delibertaly exageratte one point of course, but most of us are capable of distinguishing between the headline and the actual story and context of comments arent we?

Isn't 'you only don't like him because he's English' a rather glib interpretation of things though ?

It seems players of a particular 6 nations country don't know when to shut up i.e Lawes and we done nuffin' wrong Ashton

munikan it seems pretty accurate to me.

JW hasnt done anything wrong- just explained his feelings about the world cup ball situation- not sure what ashton has to do with it.

Ashton is another player making excuses for poor world cup form

oh is he- ok i didnt realise that JW was making excuses- but if thats what you think he is doing then crack on in ignorance i suppose!

Well technically Wilkinson is making excuses, isn't he? He's saying that it's the balls' fault rather than his that so many of his kicks went wide. Even if it's true, that's an excuse.

Munkian. I suggest you read all of what JW is/has said. He is in no way making any excuse. He himself has said that his form was well below par and that England as a squad were disjointed and deservedly did not proceed in the RWC. He is simply sayin that the balls were not very good.

This is something that was highlighted several times during the RWC by teams, fans and pundits alike.

wilko isnt being blamed for anything , he is gutted that the balls were so different from practise to game time. He is making that feeling known thats all. He is slaming the IRB and fair play to him. Its only what loads of others kickers feel as well. What do you want players to do- be seen and not heard- dont make me laugh pal. The guy has eveyr right to make the comment sand anyone with half a brain will listen to him and respect that.

Mystiroakey, how many times do I have to tell you that I'm not having a go at Wilkinson? To blame the balls is to make an excuse. That's not a judgement, it's a fact.

Sorry luckless but how is he using the balls as an excuse? He has clearly said the his form wasn'nt good enough and that the whole England camp was'nt good enough.

He just thinks that the balls wer'nt up to standard, there is no excuse, simply making a point. As 1 of the greatest kickers of all time he should know.

He's not blaiming the balls. He's saying that introducing poor quality balls in a world cup is unprofessionally. He said that when he was testsing the balls they weren't kicking right. I'd suggest he probably knows how balls should move as he's got a lot of practice. At the time he said nothing other than it was his fault. Afterwards he said he was annoyed at the sudden change. this happens a lot in competitions. I remember lots of issues with the footballs during the German world cup. It was ridiculous.

eirebilly wrote:Sorry luckless but how is he using the balls as an excuse?

Okay, here's the man himself:

"Again and again I'm hitting the same kick every time but it's non-match ball straight through the middle, match ball to the right.

"The problem is that when you feel like you're smashing it and the feedback is telling you that everything is great, yet the ball is swinging both ways and missing one way and then the other, you're left with a very difficult situation."

How could it be any clearer? He's saying that there was nothing wrong with his kicking whatsoever and that it was the match balls that were responsible for the kicks going wide. That's as clear an excuse as you can get.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Mystiroakey, how many times do I have to tell you that I'm not having a go at Wilkinson? To blame the balls is to make an excuse. That's not a judgement, it's a fact.

I understood what you were saying Luckless. From your 1st post actually... It was clear logic and non-judgemental to me. But, I think people misinterpreted it, grabbed what they wanted and went off on a tangent with it. But Im weird yeah? Just sayin...

BTW. MY(merged) orticle had a much better title Mr Radge.

Llove Johnny.As a player and a man. Pure class. Himself and Felipe can do no wrong by me. Both very intelligent,highly educated men. Both honest men and with the guts to say what they think.

I always listen to those guys views.

Felipe never moaned or made excuses mind...

argggggh luckless lol

Fair dues luckless...

luckless he is explaining what happened- he is speaking out. Its not an excuse for failing. He is not happy with the situation of playing with new balls during the world cup- that is it!

i will never understand why you are trying to make out he is just making excuses up for poor performnaces. All the kickers had lower conv rates, all the kickers understand the problem and hopefully this scenario wont happen again

Mysti, even though he's right to say the balls were all over the place and that's the reason he - and many others - struggled with their goalkicking, that's still an excuse. He's excusing himself for the missed kicks and blaming the ball. Again, that's not a judgement, it's a fact.

Thanks for that, Gibson. And I agree that Wilkinson's one of the great gentlemen of the game. Any other nation would have killed to have him as their outside half when he was in his pomp.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3556_7298331,00.html
Wilkinson has not only made comments about the balls,England s off and on the field behaviour.Now it seems he wanted to retire Pre-RWC etc.
It is certain some players adapted to the new balls and some did`nt this one will run and run.
But prior to the RWC I was watching an England match [fairly recent but can`t pin point the exact one]
Toby Flood started but had an off day with his kicking[happens to the best].
JW comes on after about 5 minutes England awarded a penalty,about 30 metres out,bang in front of the post.
Commentator [it was close at the time]" This will steady the nerves Jonny Kicks these in his sleep ".
Jonny proceeds to hook it wide ,Commentator " Oh dear,i `ve semed to Jinx him"
All kickers have bad spells,JW is THE best kicker by stats in the game,Dan the Man has more points but HE scores tries too.
Morne Steyn is the fastest too 300 plus points ever.

Jonny cashing in is unusual but fair play the lad is getting older.

I think he has missed the rather glaring point that everyone had the same balls and also that his involvement in ballgate just undermines his cred.

Gatts wrote:Jonny cashing in is unusual but fair play the lad is getting older.

I think he has missed the rather glaring point that everyone had the same balls and also that his involvement in ballgate just undermines his cred.

Sir. I utterly refute that comment and stand by my man JW. The balls, good Sir... as in all mortal men, were very very very different. Otherwise, why would England cheat and try to change them mid game?

No one thought of that did they? Its the answer right there.

No charge.

Gibson wrote:

Gatts wrote:Jonny cashing in is unusual but fair play the lad is getting older.

I think he has missed the rather glaring point that everyone had the same balls and also that his involvement in ballgate just undermines his cred.

Sir. I utterly refute that comment and stand by my man JW. The balls, good Sir... as in all mortal men, were very very very different. Otherwise, why would England cheat and try to change them mid game?

No one thought of that did they? Its the answer right there.

No charge.

I'm moving to amsterdam

Dont Gatts. I came for a weekend in 86. Still here.

It was and still is - some joint.

I love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f17G5m0_mi4&feature=player_detailpage

My gussett is moist, booking flight now

But please, no stariway

anyway, back to the kicking.

Clearly had the balls been of regular size and density - like mine - then Wales would have won the cup

so while on the one hand i completely reject Jonny's argument and think he is a cad for bringing the game into disrepute and for being a sneaky cheater,

on the other hand if it helps me explain to my counsellor why i am still having dreams where i run onto the pitch and slap hook before each kick then i am prepared to accept that the balls, at least those used by Wales, were oddly shaped and a disgrace (almost like rugby balls but not quite, too round)

Does this make me a bad person?

Gatts wrote:My gussett is moist, booking flight now

But please, no stariway

anyway, back to the kicking.

Clearly had the balls been of regular size and density - like mine - then Wales would have won the cup

so while on the one hand i completely reject Jonny's argument and think he is a cad for bringing the game into disrepute and for being a sneaky cheater,

on the other hand if it helps me explain to my counsellor why i am still having dreams where i run onto the pitch and slap hook before each kick then i am prepared to accept that the balls, at least those used by Wales, were oddly shaped and a disgrace (almost like rugby balls but not quite, too round)

Does this make me a bad person?

Most probably. But, yer just good with it man, ya know? That counts big.

I understand Stephen Donald thought the ball was fine - even though some think his kick wasn't