Richie Gray signs for Sale Sharks

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http://www.salesharks.com/RugbyNewsDetail/article/2509449/name/Scots%20star%20Richie%20Gray%20signs%20for%20Sharks


Thoughts?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:IMHO Scotland need to be harder on the players about who they play for and introduce the rule that only those playing for scottish teams can be eligible for International selection. I'm sure this may raise a few eyebrows, but really for scottish rugby to improve they need a hard edge and they need players to know they can't leave Scotland to play somewhere else if they want to play for them internationally.

NZ are a small country and they have this issued to their players. Obviously there is a huge gap in talent, but perhaps with this rule in place players would be more inclined to remain in Scotland and challenge for international recognition.

Not enough Pro Teams for Scotland to enforce such a rule.

I agree and not enough money. Most Players who are offered huge contracts "abroad" will give up playing for Scotland.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:IMHO Scotland need to be harder on the players about who they play for and introduce the rule that only those playing for scottish teams can be eligible for International selection. I'm sure this may raise a few eyebrows, but really for scottish rugby to improve they need a hard edge and they need players to know they can't leave Scotland to play somewhere else if they want to play for them internationally.

NZ are a small country and they have this issued to their players. Obviously there is a huge gap in talent, but perhaps with this rule in place players would be more inclined to remain in Scotland and challenge for international recognition.

Not enough Pro Teams for Scotland to enforce such a rule.

Rory, you're talking about 2 very different countries - a generalisation would be: Scotland - 99.9% football, 0.1% rugby; NZ - 99.9% rugby, 0.1% football (probably getting less so for NZ as youth interest in football/soccer is on the rise)

I don't know if they would give up playing for Scotland if they were offered huge contracts. They would want their place in the international squad if they saw another player not as talented/good in their position. They would want to play on the world stage I think. I think it would be a risky move but one Scotland should go for. They must be tough.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:This is slightly off topic to be honest but I will comment.

If you have an Idea to boost attendences spit it out mate.

This topic has been done to death by Scottish posters here and on the old 606 and the truth is the SRU are doing stuff about it (Glasgow Moving to Scotstoun is a start) but these things take time.

The point you raise about keeping the 1st XV at home and letting the 2nd XV play abroad is just not workable. If a player playing abroad starts to out perform his counterpart playing for either Glasgow or Edinburgh what then? Do we propose a player trade with his club?

Untill Scotland get a 3rd pro team (which is not a financial or competative option at the moment) we'll have to make do with Edinburgh and Glasgow, and when these teams star players move on we have to take comfort that we have capable filling in for those who see their futures away from Scotland.

You are being slighty pedantic, about the first XV, you know I mean the majority of the 1st XV.
To show what I mean about Scotland letting to many of its top players play abroad, in the WC in the big game against England, of the 20 Scottish players involved 10 of them played abroad. Half the the team is too many to be letting go abroad in anyones book. These are the players you want at home teaching younger players, and helping attract crowds.

While it may have been done by the old SRU and will change, losing half of your best players abroad cannot be in Scotlands, or the Clubs intrest. I guess that sentance sums up mine and Welshmushrooms points best of all.

Kingshu/Mushroom, see, I understand what you're getting at, but I'm at the total opposite end of the spectrum. For me, even in lamens terms, 2 clubs = 30 1st choice players. When you consider the small squads chosen for 6ns etc is usually around 32 players, you really start to see a problem. Say theres a couple of injuries in the same position, do you really want a reserve at club level starting for your national side?

With 10/15 players (mainly all with good international experience) playing elsewhere, they have a pot of around 40/45 1st choice players at clubs to choose from. And as we always say, its a squad game

It's just a fact of the Scottish game that we need a big exile community, and it'll only get bigger in the future. I think ultimately we'll see more like a 60/40 split in the Scotland squad in favour of exiles rather than 50/50. I don't think it'll get much more than that though.

The SRU have enough money to keep a core of internationals north of the border, but when a top talent emerges, neither Edinburgh nor Glasgow can offer the money or the quality of rugby/prospect of winning anything that can be found elsewhere. Our star players will likely play south of the border, little we can do about that without growing support (and therefore finance) for the Scottish pro sides (a topic written about on here almost as much as Gavin Henson).

At the moment, I'm fine with the balance. Glasgow have Low, Kellock, Barclay, Beattie, Cusiter, Jackson and Morrison. Edinburgh have Cross, Ford, Jacobsen, Rennie, Blair, Laidlaw, De Luca and Paterson. Both sides have a core of Scotland players, and both sides are currently developing some very talented players and showing a big commitment to finding new Scottish talent. Glasgow have Ryan Grant, Rob Harley, Chris Fusaro, Ryan Wilson, Duncan Weir, Alex Dunbar and Stuart Hogg. Edinburgh have Grant Gilchrist, Dave Denton, Stuart McInally, Harry Leonard, Matt Scott, Lee Jones and Jim Thompson. That's absolutely fine and I do think we're starting to head in a more positive direction (than we were 10 years ago when things were in a bigger mess), and that's only possible by having the biggest earners moving out of Scotland allowing the next generation to come through.

+1

Should the Aviva and Top 14 put a team of expat Scots together to contest the Heineken, a 'third region'?

funnyExiledScot wrote: At the moment, I'm fine with the balance. Glasgow have Low, Kellock, Barclay, Beattie, Cusiter, Jackson and Morrison.

I agree that the balance is fine at the moment, but I can see it slipping away. Barclay will almost certainly leave in the Summer and Cusiter probably will as well and with little chance of attracting any exile's home the balance is way out.

As a Glasgow fan, if these guys go and we replace them for like for like quality (overseas) then I am more than happy with that.

Impossible I know, but what about a boxing day game of home based Scots v the foreign legion? Surely that would excite Scottish fans?

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote: At the moment, I'm fine with the balance. Glasgow have Low, Kellock, Barclay, Beattie, Cusiter, Jackson and Morrison.

I agree that the balance is fine at the moment, but I can see it slipping away. Barclay will almost certainly leave in the Summer and Cusiter probably will as well and with little chance of attracting any exile's home the balance is way out.

As a Glasgow fan, if these guys go and we replace them for like for like quality (overseas) then I am more than happy with that.

Dot, I think you might lose Barclay and Beattie, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Cus has the wanderlust out of his system and may well decide to finish his career at the Warriors. Barclay's departure would be a big blow tho - I would bring in young Hamish Watson from the 7s squad personally, even tho that would be a development project:

Glas a du wrote:Impossible I know, but what about a boxing day game of home based Scots v the foreign legion? Surely that would excite Scottish fans?

Glas, we play the two 1872 derby fixtures over the Christmas/NY period, both of which traditionally attract decent (by Scottish standards) crowds. Not sure when you'd fit this fixture in, nor even if the non-Scots clubs would be willing to let their players go for another weekend (or two, given prep time) and risk injury?

That's why I said it was impossible

Do Scottish fans ever worry that their position of being in the league could be at risk?

As a comericial enterprise, the two Scottish clubs don't bring alot to the table, low crowds, low budgets, and lose the star players.

2 Additional Italian clubs may be able to bring more to the table.

But the Celtic League isn't fully a Commerical buiness, and is used to help develop players for the Unions involved, (which Scotland uses it for).

However do you worry that the buiness men in charge may use in future a threat to the SRU that if it doesn't make the pro clubs more appealing, that they will be removed from the league? (an empty threat maybe).

That said the New SRU do seam to be trying to kick on the pro clubs, after they stagnated under the old SRU. and that should be .

Glas a du wrote:Should the Aviva and Top 14 put a team of expat Scots together to contest the Heineken, a 'third region'?

That it possibly one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen on these boards! Do you not think the clubs the exiles play for would quite like the players to play for them in the HK considering, well, they pay their wages???

Kingshu wrote:Do Scottish fans ever worry that their position of being in the league could be at risk?

No

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote: At the moment, I'm fine with the balance. Glasgow have Low, Kellock, Barclay, Beattie, Cusiter, Jackson and Morrison.

I agree that the balance is fine at the moment, but I can see it slipping away. Barclay will almost certainly leave in the Summer and Cusiter probably will as well and with little chance of attracting any exile's home the balance is way out.

As a Glasgow fan, if these guys go and we replace them for like for like quality (overseas) then I am more than happy with that.

Dot, I think you might lose Barclay and Beattie, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Cus has the wanderlust out of his system and may well decide to finish his career at the Warriors. Barclay's departure would be a big blow tho - I would bring in young Hamish Watson from the 7s squad personally, even tho that would be a development project:

If Barclay and Beattie go, we will need to bring in at least one overseas player to cover their loss in the backrow. Someone who is ready to step up and perform from day 1.

Kingshu wrote:Do Scottish fans ever worry that their position of being in the league could be at risk?

As a comericial enterprise, the two Scottish clubs don't bring alot to the table, low crowds, low budgets, and lose the star players.

2 Additional Italian clubs may be able to bring more to the table.

What so far have the Italian teams brought in terms of the table, crowds to suggest that they should double the amount of their teams? Most of Italys star players don't play in Italy.

Both Scottish teams are not going to seriously challange for the title in my opinon, but taking last season out the equation, a Scottish team has finished in what would have been a play off position for the three previous year.

Where I think the threat to the Pro Teams comes from is the SRU itself pulling the plug. However that does not appear to be the case as the new top brass are talking about increasing the budgets and have already made an offer to Gray that we could only have dreamed of a few years back.

Talk is cheap and we will see over the next 6 months by the comings and goings at both clubs, wither the SRU will put its money where its mouth is.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:If Barclay and Beattie go, we will need to bring in at least one overseas player to cover their loss in the backrow. Someone who is ready to step up and perform from day 1.

I agree. Harley, Fusaro and Wilson would not be ready to form an effective unit by next season. If Newcastle go down Ali Hogg might be persuaded to return, or maybe sign someone like Salvi from Leicester, who to my mind is really a short-term signing there.

Hogg is a great shout actually - Newcastle are going no where just now and his best way of getting back in the Scotland team is to be playing for Glasgow or Edinburgh. We don't need him but he would be a fantastic signing for Glasgow. Pretty sure hails from Stirling as well which might help him want to come home.

The other potential steals from Newcastle (assuming they go down) are Alex (fullback) and Michael (centre) Tait (both qualify to play for Scotland), Tim Swinson (highly rated lock that could eventually qualify on residency) and of course Euan Murray (pretty rare Rabo 12 games happen on a Sunday).

funnyExiledScot wrote: Euan Murray (pretty rare Rabo 12 games happen on a Sunday).

At least half our HC games are usually Sunday as Sky like to stick us in the warm-up for the big games slot at Lunchtime on a Sunday. Three of our four announced fixtures this season are Sundays.

That's true I guess, was thinking more of the Rabo12, when Glasgow seem to be on Fridays and Saturdays typically.

To be honest with Low at the club I don't think Murray would be a sensible allocation of resources.

Swinson and Hogg on the otherhand would make sense to me.