What ever Happened to wasps?

Gone are the days on Heineken Cup Glory, Premiership Finals. But why ?

Pre 2007 Wasps were a force to be weary of With Constantly high finishes in the premiership and more often that not they put in a good show in the Heineken cup. But over the last 4 years this has all seemed to change.

Whats to blame ?

The exodus of class players ? : Haskell (originally to stade) , Cipriani (Down south) , Flutey (to Brive but now back), Palmer (Stade), Dallaglio (retired) , Sackey (Admittedly not at his best when he left but still had extensive international experience) and im sure im missing many more .......

Coaches ?

Or just that there is more competition these days?

Do you see Wasps becoming a formidably force anytime soon or will they follow the path of many once world class clubs. E.g Richmond who are now playing in the 4th league in the english rugby.

Looking forward to hearing Opinions. WASPS TILL I DIE !!

(First Ever Post so apologies if it is poorly writen )

yeah its a shame to see wasps fall from grace, cant see them returning to the business end of the prem any time soon either. Money is the main factor, the boom in france cost wasps 3-4 of their best players all at once, retirements and long term injuries havent helped either.

They dont seem to have the youth system to replace the big players they have lost.

Wasps never really had a great set piece and so relied upon clever play in the loose play, particularly at the breakdown. With the ever changing interpretations this became harder and harder to manage as it required constant innovation (Tigers appointed a breakdown coach for instance) and with Wasps losing some of the best and brightest to France and some of their legends to retirement they lost that natural instinct.

The coaches at the heart of their pomp have moved on, most of their players have as well and the club has been poorly managed. The ground is a bit of a dump away from their traditional support in an area where the majority don't want the rugby club (mass protest against the new sports park) and with a chairman who could not sort the finances and who wouldn't inject enough finance who Wasps to bring in the players they needed to replace some the of greats they were losing.

You have to understand that when the game went proffesional in 1999, the English clubs where streets ahead of everyone (including the bulk of the French sides). Wasps and Leicester for the next period contirubuted greatly to the England cause during this period. Originally there was no league playoffs and I believe games where not originally played in the International periods. Also there was no LV Cup either. This worked well for Wasps but overtime a few factors conspired in their downfall.

A) The additional games in the LC Cup and playing matches during the international windows. It saw a team that has always largly invested in English Players be penalised for playing to many games.

B) Not owing their own stadium and financially not developing the way Leicester have despite the better success in the early part of the decade.

C) The increased resources from French Club Rugby.

D) Key retirments and a lack of developed players coming through.

E) The RFU player aggrement. See's players rested and taken away for bigger windows than just International matches.

F) Lack of Resources.


Ok some of these effects where equal on all English sides. There is no doubting though the sides least affected in the Aviva are the sides with less International representatives. Look at Harlequins and Sarcens this season for example.

The main problem for Wasps was they failed to take advantage at a time when they where the best side in England. Leicester on the other hand grew their stadium, worked on their Financing and had clear objectives, thus securing their long term viability.

Sam true

WelshMushroom, Saracens had 8 players at the world cup. More than the vast majority of clubs in the AP. I wish people would stop churning out this ridiculous myth we were less affected.

Never mind. The rest of what you said was true.

Wasps only have themselves to blame.

Even now there is no real long term strategy. The likes of Wentzel and Thompson are stop gaps.

Wasps need a new owner and need to look for a spot to build a new stadium.

Everything said already is true.

One other factor is that similar to England of 2003, many key players grew old together or are permanently injured. It has been a while since you would have said that Wasps had a coherent development plan.

Not having a settled home ground and paying rent are real development killers. Wasps do only have themselves to blame because they had the success, were in a position to become the key/main/prime club in London, had what looked like good coaching setups, etc.

But looking at the side, I think they are in a better position/place this year than they were last year. Will they make it back to the heady heights of HC winners, possibly not, but will they fall into the pit of div4, doubtful.

thebandwagonsociety you can't win the HC when you aren't competing for it!

Wasps should target HC qualification then use that as a springboard to sign quality replacements in key positions.

A wealthy new owner should be the target.

Wasps have the successful history. Surely some sugardaddy will be pleased to take the challenge on?

Once you have that then you can focus on gaining your own stadium.

beshocked wrote:thebandwagonsociety you can't win the HC when you aren't competing for it!

Wasps should target HC qualification then use that as a springboard to sign quality replacements in key positions.

A wealthy new owner should be the target.

Wasps have the successful history. Surely some sugardaddy will be pleased to take the challenge on?

Once you have that then you can focus on gaining your own stadium.

Beshocked, never a truer word has been spoken on here. Your correct that you can't win the HC if you aren't competing in it. I was observing that Wasps can turn things around in the next 5-8 years, and your points are key in achieving that. Their problems can't be solved within 1 season.

Not owing their own stadium and financially not developing the way Leicester have despite the better success in the early part of the decade

It wasn't that long ago they were still a serious force, the won the HEC in 2007 and the GP (as it was then) in 2008.

Wasps has a wonderful team for about 6 years (2002 to 2008) but never built anything permanant with their success. Wasps still have a great academy (probabley the best after Quinns) but they are struggling to utilise what it produces because they never put into place the financial building blocks when the had the chance.

True no of course the problems can't be solved in one season bandwagonsociety.

One small step at a time

1.Find a new owner (ideally wealthy) by the end of the season

2.Qualify for the HC at the close of play this season.

3.Look at acquiring your own stadium by 2016

I think on these forums we have discussed an ideal spot in between Quins and Barnet Copthall (where Saracens are looking to go).

Show your interest before others jump in like football clubs.

A 5 year plan is realistic.

Of course it's easier said than done.

You certainly could target the Amlin.

beshocked wrote:Sam true

WelshMushroom, Saracens had 8 players at the world cup. More than the vast majority of clubs in the AP. I wish people would stop churning out this ridiculous myth we were less affected.

Never mind. The rest of what you said was true.

Wasps only have themselves to blame.

Even now there is no real long term strategy. The likes of Wentzel and Thompson are stop gaps.

Wasps need a new owner and need to look for a spot to build a new stadium.

True enough Beshocked. That said the World Cup is every 4 Years. How many players are Saracens likely to lose during the 6 Nations window. A lot less than Leicester I reckon. Basically during the major spring window only sides with a strong Scottish,Welsh, English, French,Italian & Irish contigent is affected. Saracens will end up holding on to a fair few during that period compared to say Bath or Leicester. The spring window still has a impact on sides even if I aggree its probably not as much as people think it does.

they may well have been the problems in the past, but the biggest problem wasps now have as an underachieving club for the past couple of years is putting in one of the biggest underachieving coaches to grace the field. Dai Young is poor and the longer he stays outside of Wales the better it is for wales because hopefully out of sight and out of mind for the welsh job.

I wouldnt say Di Young is a poor Coach. Hes just not a great Manager at the moment in terms of selections and tactics. That will come with Experience though. To be fair not even Graham Henry could do anything with the current Wasps squad.

What I cant believe is that he left the Blues for them. I would have understood it had he gone to any French team or maybe Leicester.

He probably wanted the challenge but its a risky move on his part. To be fair they havent done to bad all things considered so far this season so you have to give him credit for that. I dont think anyone really gave Wasps a chance to make the top 4 this year at any rate.

Warren Gatland left that;s what happened, when he took over they were close to relegation, in the next 3 seasons they won the league 3 times on the trot, the lv cup, the Amlin cup, and the Heinaken Cup!

He left and they went to cack again.

Dai young is a poor coach. Look at the money spent and the resources he had at the Blues and they massively underachieved!!
He is a poor coach and the Blues played poor rugby under him so i'm sorry to say don't expect big things.

HQ matt wrote:yeah its a shame to see wasps fall from grace, cant see them returning to the business end of the prem any time soon either. Money is the main factor, the boom in france cost wasps 3-4 of their best players all at once, retirements and long term injuries havent helped either.

They dont seem to have the youth system to replace the big players they have lost.

Matt, I thought that Wasps had a decent youth system in place which has unearthed the likes of Daly, Launchbury, and Wade, for example and I'm sure that there's others that I have forgotten.

Wasps seem to be missing players they have developed who are in their mid-late 20s and thus in their prime. They have kids coming through but so many of the older players they developed have moved on.

Their recruitment strategy has been dreadfull for long term development - bringing in players at the end of their career. The likes of Ibanez, Betsen, Walder, Robinson, Thompson, Wentzel were all good short term decisions but do not help teh side develop.

Warren Gatland left that;s what happened

I think Geech was doing a good job there, they won the GP and the HEC under him. After he left (Lions commitments) it did start to go south.

LT more than a few of those players steadied the ship in times of dire need. Ibanez was also a pretty big signing and played a key part in their last HEC triumph (I don't like to talk about that though). Betsen was brilliant for them over the last couple of years especially with Rees' injuries, Wentzel is giving them a line out this season and Walder turned out to be more than handy once Cips decided he was going to go and be an imature fool down under. Not sure why Thompson was signed though as with Webber and Lindsay on the books they had options in the hooker department.

theskippingpig wrote:Dai young is a poor coach. Look at the money spent and the resources he had at the Blues and they massively underachieved!!
He is a poor coach and the Blues played poor rugby under him so i'm sorry to say don't expect big things.

I agree to a point when he took over the Blues were broke, most of their top players had left, Neil Jenkins, Robert Howley, Dai Young himself had retired.
Though clearly they should of done a hell of a lot better with the players they had over the past 3-4 seasons.

A lot could be made of the coaches, Wasps have a good enough squad to be in the top 6 definitely, but the coaches really aren't getting the best out of them.

Players like varndell now personify Wasps, flash in the pan brilliance coupled with woeful mediocrity. You can have the odd brilliant game but you can't base a season on it.

Losing players like Worsley, Dallaglio, Ibanez, Vickery, Lewsey, Rees, Shaw, Waters and Sackey who all helped hold the side together and gave them that dog their famous for in defense and all helped counteract the hot and cold sparkle of players like Cipriani and Van Gisburghen. It was these players that used to let them battle through the last half of the season and get their top 4 finishes.

Wasps squad isn't too bad this season. A new wealthy owner prepared to bring in 2 or 3 expensive players and they'd be in business. They still have a superb academy.

The other thing they need is a stadium in London. Will any of this happen though?

yes i cant believe there is no space for wasps to play in london, brentford have a 12000 capacity staduim