Saracens : are they just fifth columnists?

First topic message reminder :

And is Beshocked their equivalent of Lord Haw Haw?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15672153.stm

"Saracens have released prop Deon Carstens to enable the South African to join Western Province in his home city of Cape Town.

The 32-year-old has made 29 appearances for the Premiership side since joining from Sharks in July 2010, 10 of which came this season.

He has nine Springbok caps, the most recent coming two years ago.

"I am very sad to be leaving Saracens. But I am massively looking forward to the opportunity in Cape Town," he said.

"I am also very grateful to Saracens for their pragmatic approach to this situation.

"This is a special club. It's run in a different way to any other rugby club in my experience, and it is undoubtedly the right way.".

Greybeard I am not quite sure what Portnoy thinks I am.

Possibly a mix between a Nazi sympathiser and Nelson Mandela? That's just a tiny bit strange!

By the way for the record I am not South African or German.

Well it now allows Portnoy to point out that Tigers made a much bigger contribution to the English efforts etc.


Fact is Saracens are good for the English game. They are the best team in England and quite rightly the Premiership champions. Other teams have to improve if they want to knock Sarries of their perch - and that can only be good for English rugby and the England team. They are also developing players who could well go on to have good careers in an England shirt.
While they are not an eye catching team, their brand of pragmatic rugby is well suited to the English psyche. I hope they make good progress in Europe (though not as good as the Tigers) and show that a traditional English style of rugby just needs a smidge of flair to be successful at the highest levels.


(Note: I do not like the way they went about things, especially the waythey sacked so many players and backroom staff - but that is now irrelevant to the argument of whether they contribute to English rugby)

PS Beshocked you need to pick up your Gestapo uniform from the dry cleaners

beshocked wrote:Sorry Portnoy what information is it that you actually want to know?

Saracens -

England - Wigglesworth and Stevens - 2

USA - Wyles and Smith - 2

Fiji - Tagicakibau - 1

Scotland - Brown - 1

Namibia - Burger - 1

South Africa - Smit 1

Anything else you wish to know my liege?

So there we have it.

Lord Haw Haw reveals that the Saffacens lost two bit-part England players (one of whom was SA Born) and includes the Saffer captain who has yet to play a game for his club.

I agree with LT and could possibley go so far as to like Sarries should they ditch the awful song. They have forged a very good (nearly all English) backline that could well gather plenty of caps in the not so distant future.

LondonTiger wrote:Well it now allows Portnoy to point out that Tigers made a much bigger contribution to the English efforts etc.


Fact is Saracens are good for the English game. They are the best team in England and quite rightly the Premiership champions. Other teams have to improve if they want to knock Sarries of their perch - and that can only be good for English rugby and the England team. They are also developing players who could well go on to have good careers in an England shirt.
While they are not an eye catching team, their brand of pragmatic rugby is well suited to the English psyche. I hope they make good progress in Europe (though not as good as the Tigers) and show that a traditional English style of rugby just needs a smidge of flair to be successful at the highest levels.


(Note: I do not like the way they went about things, especially the waythey sacked so many players and backroom staff - but that is now irrelevant to the argument of whether they contribute to English rugby)

PS Beshocked you need to pick up your Gestapo uniform from the dry cleaners

Precisely LT.

The English domestic game could not be better designed to handicap more the sides that contribute most to the national cause.

Portnoy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sorry Portnoy what information is it that you actually want to know?

Saracens -

England - Wigglesworth and Stevens - 2

USA - Wyles and Smith - 2

Fiji - Tagicakibau - 1

Scotland - Brown - 1

Namibia - Burger - 1

South Africa - Smit 1

Anything else you wish to know my liege?

So there we have it.

Lord Haw Haw reveals that the Saffacens lost two bit-part England players (one of whom was SA Born) and includes the Saffer captain who has yet to play a game for his club.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sorry Portnoy what information is it that you actually want to know?

Saracens -

England - Wigglesworth and Stevens - 2

USA - Wyles and Smith - 2

Fiji - Tagicakibau - 1

Scotland - Brown - 1

Namibia - Burger - 1

South Africa - Smit 1

Anything else you wish to know my liege?

So there we have it.

Lord Haw Haw reveals that the Saffacens lost two bit-part England players (one of whom was SA Born) and includes the Saffer captain who has yet to play a game for his club.

Does a repetition of fact make it any less less true?

As I've said before your auto-response is in itself a As.

All I am calling for is a level domestic playing field.

Are you still banging that same old drum Portnoy?

Excellent, wouldnt be v2 without it.

Carry on.

Portnoy wrote:Does a repetition of fact make it any less less true?

As I've said before your auto-response is in itself a As.

All I am calling for is a level domestic playing field.

But we all know your views (not facts, note), Portnoy, and sharing them with us ad nauseam is plain tedious - can you find a new topic pls?

"England - Wigglesworth and Stevens - 2

USA - Wyles and Smith - 2

Fiji - Tagicakibau - 1

Scotland - Brown - 1

Namibia - Burger - 1

South Africa - Smit 1"

Is a fact As/Stag.

Anyway. I believe that I have a consistent, uniform, holistic view on the many components of what is wrong with the English game.

So when challenged on any issue, what should I do? Make up a new argument?

And btw, Staggy,

regarding this conversation:
" red_stag wrote:

beshocked wrote:Portnoy is upset. Poor guy.



So long as playoffs, the Pro 12, rugby during the international windows and Englands inconsisntency on the wold stage survive, so too will Portnoys angst Smile



That's not fair or Staggy as you know. And I think that you misrepresent me completely by inference.

The playoffs (as I have to again repeat) are not necessary. Dump the P-Os and hey presto - there are enough weeks in the calendar in the season to play a full league programme all outside the IWs.
I have no problem with the Rabo - per se. I just claim that the best sides should qualify - not the best national qualifiers.

And my frustration regarding England's consistency on the World stage is something that I suspect that you will appreciate in the next few years"
"
Post by red_stag Yesterday at 8:30 pm
Portnoy how did I misrepresent you; in your last post you confirmed you had a problem with them.

Yours Sincerely
Rugby Politburo Member #24601
"

Perhaps you will be good enough to explain my 'problem'.

I don't recall any oxymoronic (in my views) posts.

LondonTiger wrote:Well it now allows Portnoy to point out that Tigers made a much bigger contribution to the English efforts etc.


Fact is Saracens are good for the English game. They are the best team in England and quite rightly the Premiership champions. Other teams have to improve if they want to knock Sarries of their perch - and that can only be good for English rugby and the England team. They are also developing players who could well go on to have good careers in an England shirt.
While they are not an eye catching team, their brand of pragmatic rugby is well suited to the English psyche. I hope they make good progress in Europe (though not as good as the Tigers) and show that a traditional English style of rugby just needs a smidge of flair to be successful at the highest levels.


(Note: I do not like the way they went about things, especially the waythey sacked so many players and backroom staff - but that is now irrelevant to the argument of whether they contribute to English rugby)

PS Beshocked you need to pick up your Gestapo uniform from the dry cleaners

I lent my uniform to Prince Harry aka Rory Clegg.

I've got my Nelson Mandela mask and robes in the wardrobe along with my Brendan Venter mask.

I don't like the way they sacked so many players and backroom staff either but we have to put the past behind us like all clubs need to in certain circumstances.

Portnoy why are you so obsessed with England and English rugby? We haven't got an empire anymore ol' boy. We are doing our bit to help USA,Namibian and Fijian rugby
I can imagine you being a fan of Lord Kitchener.

Someone should do a mock up of your face saying "English rugby wants you!"

Or perhaps one warning about rivers of blood?

Have you noticed how long it has been since England football win a gong?

And are they retreating from their aspirations?

Nearly every successful franchise nation has done a lot to secure its own borders. France and England maintain open borders and yet do nothing to defend those sides that contribute the most.

Portnoy wrote:Nearly every successful franchise nation has done a lot to secure its own borders. France and England maintain open borders and yet do nothing to defend those sides that contribute the most.

Sorry, are we still talking about rugby or have the Germans chosen Armistice Day to mount another invasion???

What's a franchise nation? One that has a Starbucks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong

Above is the wiki definition of a gong. Why in particular would England football want one? To wake themselves up?

Do England and France really need to defend particular clubs? Toulouse don't seem to be doing too badly. Neither are Clermont.

Leicester have been unfortunate with injuries. Saints have lost as many players as other clubs in the AP.

I know you want to see Leicester staying at the top of the pile however you can but should it be at the detriment of others?

It's refreshing to see a new team at the top of the pile for once.

greybeard wrote:What's a franchise nation? One that has a Starbucks?

A nation that has a franchised league. Basically it is a matter of promotion/relegation or not.

As well you know gb.

Portnoy surely the reason being its easier for a national union to manage 4 teams rather than 12.

Portnoy you might not know but England won the rugby world cup in 2003.

Two of England's greatest ever flankers in women's and men's rugby are from Saracens. No prizes for guessing who they are.

Plus you might not know but in women's rugby Saracens are a very strong team. I think they won the premiership 4 times in a row.

As far as I'm aware there isn't a single nation with a franchised league.

There is a NH league that contains teams from four different unions, each with their own differing degrees of success. Similarly, the super xv has three unions with their own 'franchises'. But of course regardless of success they are losing players to French and English leagues, to everybodies detriment, it would seem.

beshocked wrote:
Two of England's greatest ever flankers in women's and men's rugby are from Saracens. No prizes for guessing who they are

Richard Hill, and Richard Hill in a skirt?

Portnoy

You keep on about the fact that the Tigers do more to support the England cause than others and are unfairly handicaped because of it, but what exactly have Tigers done for the England cause.

For a number of years now, the England team have been shoite interspersed with brief periods of success (6N this year). The fact that the manager, and ex Tiger has seen fit to call up loads of Tigers for us to be shoite during the last 3 years has nothing to do with the play offs whatsoever.

Your continued whinging about how unfair it all is playing without internationals does nothing to enhance the reputation of yourself or Tigers fans generally, as other teams have competed without their top stars and have just got on with it.

Maggie Alphonsi and Richard Hill.

If you don't know who Maggie Alphonsi is:

http://www.rfu.com/SquadsAndPlayers/WomensRugby/MargaretAlphonsi.aspx

Arguably the best woman's rugby player in the world.

"Your continued whinging about how unfair it all is playing without internationals does nothing to enhance the reputation of yourself OR TIGERS FANS GENERALLY, as other teams have competed without their top stars and have just got on with it."

Is Portnoy the voice of Tigers fans on here then? i would expect a more considered opinion from a mod tbh

What does me being a mod have to do with it? When I post in red it is as a mod. When I post like this it is as a contributor and is my personal opinon and nothing to do with the mods/admins on this site.

In answer to your question, no, Portnoy is not the voice of the Tigers, but as a Tigers fan his continual whinge about the unfairness of it all does nothing to endear the Tigers to others.

I appreciate there are other Tigers fans on here who do endear themselves and their team to other fans, but I am referring specifically to Portnoy in my comment.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Portnoy

You keep on about the fact that the Tigers do more to support the England cause than others and are unfairly handicaped because of it, but what exactly have Tigers done for the England cause.

For a number of years now, the England team have been shoite interspersed with brief periods of success (6N this year). The fact that the manager, and ex Tiger has seen fit to call up loads of Tigers for us to be shoite during the last 3 years has nothing to do with the play offs whatsoever.

Your continued whinging about how unfair it all is playing without internationals does nothing to enhance the reputation of yourself or Tigers fans generally, as other teams have competed without their top stars and have just got on with it.

I am quite prepared to accept any final league position (indeed my head wanted Gous to beat Tigers a few years ago).

Given that there are enough weeks in the calendar to accommodate a full Premiership outside IWs, I continue to hear contrary (to my own) bleatings
that the Jeff is fine.

But fundamentally it is not.

Everything from EPS payments through Jeff schedules during IWs to Play-offs, via affordable player payment caps.

That is to say every man-trap that can be set to preclude an English club side to succeed has been set.

Yet Northampton were forty mins away from the european title last year

Ozzy3213 wrote:What does me being a mod have to do with it? When I post in red it is as a mod. When I post like this it is as a contributor and is my personal opinon and nothing to do with the mods/admins on this site.

In answer to your question, no, Portnoy is not the voice of the Tigers, but as a Tigers fan his continual whinge about the unfairness of it all does nothing to endear the Tigers to others.

I appreciate there are other Tigers fans on here who do endear themselves and their team to other fans, but I am referring specifically to Portnoy in my comment.

Sorry Ozzy, you seem to contradict yourself here mate. "Portnoy IS NOT THE VOICE OF THE TIGERS but his continual whinge DOES NOTHING TO ENDEAR THE TIGERS TO OTHERS. If you are referring SPECIFICALLY TO PORTNOY why do the rest of us need a mention?

Portnoy it isn't Saracens fault if the media keep talking about Saracens and our players. Well actually I suppose it is!

I might give the impression I dislike the Tigers (I don't really) but I like their posters on here, even Portnoy. He's crazy but amusing.

All are knowledgeable and passionate. The likes of Sam,LondonTiger and Metal Tiger are good lads.

Shame seasbiscuit wheeler isn't around anymore.

Tigerleghorn where you been hiding?

beshocked wrote:All are knowledgeable and passionate. The likes of Sam,LondonTiger and Metal Tiger are good lads.

Shame seasbiscuit wheeler isn't around anymore.

Tigerleghorn where you been hiding?

Ah shucks... blushing now... thanks mate.

As for 'Peter seabicuit wheeler' (if that is who you are referring too?) Oh he's still around, just seen him on another thread. I'm pretty sure he is not a Tigers fan... he's an Osprey fan. The name is something to do with Peter 'The Squeeler' Wheeler that all the O's fans referred to constantly after he complained about them having 16 men on the pitch during a game a few years back. If I am wrong about this then apologies all round.

Yeah... Foghorn... where you been hiding?

Still check in from time to time but I couldn't stand that idiot GreyGhost who I believe has now retired to the naughty room.

Nice to see some familiar old lags from the old days on here mind!

Yep. He's been banned again.

Keep expecting to see a new account appear under the assumed identity of 'Le Phantome Gris' but not yet.

Metal Tiger fair enough. I always thought peter seabiscuit wheeler was a Tigers fan. Seen him post about English cricket. Not sure why an Ospreys fan would do that!

beshocked wrote:Metal Tiger fair enough. I always thought peter seabiscuit wheeler was a Tigers fan. Seen him post about English cricket. Not sure why an Ospreys fan would do that!

He seemed to swap nationalities (and clubs) midway thru the RWC, but Biscuit-heid was always a Tigers/England fan on v1, i think?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

beshocked wrote:Metal Tiger fair enough. I always thought peter seabiscuit wheeler was a Tigers fan. Seen him post about English cricket. Not sure why an Ospreys fan would do that!

He seemed to swap nationalities (and clubs) midway thru the RWC, but Biscuit-heid was always a Tigers/England fan on v1, i think?

Oh right. That just makes things more confusing! Maybe he can clear things up. Quite possibly he has a split personality?

beshocked wrote:Metal Tiger fair enough. I always thought peter seabiscuit wheeler was a Tigers fan. Seen him post about English cricket. Not sure why an Ospreys fan would do that!

Could be because Wales & England play as one team in cricket? There isn't a Wales test side I think.