Pacquaio vs. Marquez: SPOILERS!!! How do YOU feel?

First topic message reminder :

Am I seeing the same thing here? Marquez is SCHOOLING Pacquiao?

It's Round 8 and I've got Marquez 5 rounds up...

i had it 8-4 marquez 116-112....115-113 to marquez would have been ok. would even have accepted a 114-114 card at a push but there was no way NO WAY pac won more rounds than juanma ....let alone 8 -4 in manny's favour...that stinks to high heaven!
lets face it...arum jobbed marquez.....he wasnt walking out of there with a decision under any circs. its all about the pinoy politics and economics.
marquez can hold his head high...he beat manny, we know it, manny knew it, jinkee knew it, freddie knew it, khan knew it, michael buffer knew it, 17000 spectators in the place knew it and everyone watching around the world knew it.
the sport took a knock last night and i lost a lot of respect for pacquiao for the 'its clear i won the fight' BS.
now i just hope

Im more stunned for my own performance after that fight, reading how so many users gave it to pacquiao and how all the american sports networks had pacquiao ahead its suddenly dawned on me i may not know much about boxing as i previously thought, infact im gona say i know nothing.

oh and primetime please please re think your commentary line up next time, they just found 2 pacuiao friends, rather than impartial commentators. Had to listen to khan telling everyone what manny needs to do, STYLES MAKES FYTZ, manny is awesome, many needs to...., freddie roach is etc etc.

dangerous_mouse wrote:Im more stunned for my own performance after that fight, reading how so many users gave it to pacquiao and how all the american sports networks had pacquiao ahead its suddenly dawned on me i may not know much about boxing as i previously thought, infact im gona say i know nothing.

Feel exactly the same way. I had it 117 - 112 Marquez. The american writers seem to think the decision was 'iffy' - I thought it was an absolute disgrace. Pacquaio never landed a shot of note, almost everything hit the gloves and anytime Manny got in to land Marquez returned with something of his own. It was a technical masterclass.
In Vegas you seem to get points just for walking forward!!!! This fight has changed my opinion on how a Manny - Mayweather fight would go, an incidentally I fully believe Marquez was the lamb offered up for sacrifice to make sure that the Pacquaio -v- Maywether fight happens and everyone involved gets their huge payday.

Anyone who had Pacquaio winning, put the fight on again and dont watch the fight just watch Manny and Freddie Roach's faces at the end, they knew they had lost.

GerardMcL wrote:

dangerous_mouse wrote:Im more stunned for my own performance after that fight, reading how so many users gave it to pacquiao and how all the american sports networks had pacquiao ahead its suddenly dawned on me i may not know much about boxing as i previously thought, infact im gona say i know nothing.

Feel exactly the same way. I had it 117 - 112 Marquez. The american writers seem to think the decision was 'iffy' - I thought it was an absolute disgrace. Pacquaio never landed a shot of note, almost everything hit the gloves and anytime Manny got in to land Marquez returned with something of his own. It was a technical masterclass.
In Vegas you seem to get points just for walking forward!!!! This fight has changed my opinion on how a Manny - Mayweather fight would go, an incidentally I fully believe Marquez was the lamb offered up for sacrifice to make sure that the Pacquaio -v- Maywether fight happens and everyone involved gets their huge payday.

Anyone who had Pacquaio winning, put the fight on again and dont watch the fight just watch Manny and Freddie Roach's faces at the end, they knew they had lost.

i've always said mayweather will NOT loose to pacman. Pacmans last 5 opponents were no deffensive technicians and all made him look like some sort of super human punching and accuracy machine.... BUUUUUTTTTTTT im staying quite now, manny pacquiao is GOD himself and if the americans say he cant put a foot wrong then who am i to say anything else.

Hello mate - Long time no see. Yeah - with the commentary on i had is 116-112 twice. Marquez beat him and beat him decisively. Perhaps you want to join the queue behind myself and Balti who want to punch Bob Arum in the face. if it turns out that he had no hand in it - then you can puch him twice.

oxring wrote:I had it Manny's way. I've always scored heavily in favour of aggression - an last night was the same.

Truss - I've said it before with your 10-1-1 - but how you felt you could give Marquez the second round of that fight is beyond me. He was nearly finishe in that round.

In some ways- last night was a Lewis-Klitschko affair. Lewis won the fight, Vitali won the event. Last night, we were expecting Manny, this destroyer of worlds - to come out and walk straight through Marquez. He didn't.

Now in truth - Marquez has Manny's number - he's always had Manny's number and probably always will. But that doesn't mean he won the fight - just because he did better than we expected him to. Maidana-Morales is another example. Just because no-one expected Morales to match Maidana - doesn't make him the winner. He still lost the fight.

In Steffan's terms - Rocky still lost to Mason Dixon. Even if we enjoyed the fight.

No robbery - but a close fight.

Windy's point on Marquez is a good one - in 3 close fights, where he has edged an awful lot of rounds - he never won once.

However - that first fight was called a draw - when it should have been a decision in Manny's favour (see scorecard fiasco). So it could be fair to say that Marquez has had a little luck - even if that luck feels a bit hollow and thin.

Rubbish. Aggression has to be effective. Only a blind man could argue Manny was using his aggression effectively. Won 4 rounds (at best) and still gets a 116-112 score card. What was the point of this fight even taking place. Marquez rightly walked out in disgust, he knows he has clearly won 2 of the fights, with a stronger case than Manny for the third.

The HBO score card has an utter disgrace.

It has got to the point were you can't see the judges give a decision to anyone but Pacquaio.
Arum is.... I try to find the words but angry green bile just rises in my throat.
They have consistently denied a great fighter, Marquez, his seat at the very top table. I'm f*cked off with boxing at the minute.

"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

dangerous_mouse wrote:

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

Don't know what you're on about...Marquez was extremely lucky to hang on for the remaining ten rounds..!

BALTIMORA wrote:

dangerous_mouse wrote:

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

Don't know what you're on about...Marquez was extremely lucky to hang on for the remaining ten rounds..!

I know, especially as he managed to win 9 of them. Great a hanging on...

johnson2 wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

dangerous_mouse wrote:

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

Don't know what you're on about...Marquez was extremely lucky to hang on for the remaining ten rounds..!

I know, especially as he managed to win 9 of them. Great a hanging on...

Just a bizarre streak of consistent good luck. Nothing more...

BALTIMORA wrote:

dangerous_mouse wrote:

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

Don't know what you're on about...Marquez was extremely lucky to hang on for the remaining ten rounds..!

Talking about manny-marquez one folks. Manny clearly won the second round - after putting Marquez down 3 times in the first, went for the finish in the second - nearly had it but Marquez came back with a couple of nice shots at the end. Round still goes to Manny.

I'm not talking about the second round last night. Truss uses 10-1-1 to refer to Manny-JMM 1 - always does.

Last night was close and I wouldn't have whinged if JMM had taken the decision. However - I disagree with the notions that are flying round on here that the fight wasn't close. Maybe I wasn't watching the same fight.

BALTIMORA wrote:

johnson2 wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

dangerous_mouse wrote:

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

Don't know what you're on about...Marquez was extremely lucky to hang on for the remaining ten rounds..!

I know, especially as he managed to win 9 of them. Great a hanging on...

Just a bizarre streak of consistent good luck. Nothing more...

The fact D4th agreed Marquez was robbed tells you all you really need to know.

Look at the body language after the fight. Marquez had a big smile, was applauded by the crowd. Manny (and Roach) looked drained and unhappy. When the decision was announced the crowd, which was pro Manny, booed him because they knew the sham they had just witnessed.

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

dangerous_mouse wrote:

GerardMcL wrote:"He was nearly finishe in that round."

Are you nuts?

i read this too but really couldnt be bothered to reply to such tripe.

Don't know what you're on about...Marquez was extremely lucky to hang on for the remaining ten rounds..!

Talking about manny-marquez one folks. Manny clearly won the second round - after putting Marquez down 3 times in the first, went for the finish in the second - nearly had it but Marquez came back with a couple of nice shots at the end. Round still goes to Manny.

I'm not talking about the second round last night. Truss uses 10-1-1 to refer to Manny-JMM 1 - always does.

Last night was close and I wouldn't have whinged if JMM had taken the decision. However - I disagree with the notions that are flying round on here that the fight wasn't close. Maybe I wasn't watching the same fight.

He didnt "nearly have it". Not sure what you were watching. Never even close. Bit of a blinkered view.

COMPUBOX FIGURES FOR LAST NIGHT: (ref boxrec)

CompuBox statistics: total punches landed, Pacquiao 176 of 578 and Marquez 138 of 436
CompuBox statistics: power punches landed, Pacquiao 117 and Marquez 100

There's plenty of inherent flaws with using compubox to score a fight.

Yet anyone who said this was, clearly and obviously Marquez' fight with NO debate is a bit off the mark IMO.

Do you have compubox figures per round? Am at work at the moment so cant rewatch the fight.

Sorry chief - only got what boxrec have given me thus far.

I'll be interested to see what the round-by-round looks like.

oxring wrote:COMPUBOX FIGURES FOR LAST NIGHT: (ref boxrec)

CompuBox statistics: total punches landed, Pacquiao 176 of 578 and Marquez 138 of 436
CompuBox statistics: power punches landed, Pacquiao 117 and Marquez 100

There's plenty of inherent flaws with using compubox to score a fight.

Yet anyone who said this was, clearly and obviously Marquez' fight with NO debate is a bit off the mark IMO.

Anything can be proven with stats. When 95% percent of people think a boxer wins a fight chances are if the decision went the other way then it is a bad/corrupt decision.

oxring wrote:COMPUBOX FIGURES FOR LAST NIGHT: (ref boxrec)

CompuBox statistics: total punches landed, Pacquiao 176 of 578 and Marquez 138 of 436
CompuBox statistics: power punches landed, Pacquiao 117 and Marquez 100

There's plenty of inherent flaws with using compubox to score a fight.

Yet anyone who said this was, clearly and obviously Marquez' fight with NO debate is a bit off the mark IMO.

Errr - you're in danger of becoming D4 here Oxy - whenever he was having trouble convincing people that manny won a fight he'd reel out CompuBox (and then dismiss it as meaningless when it showed Mayweather to be a more accurate puncher than manny!).

It's totally normal for a fighter to land more punches and lose - look at katsidas last weekend for a start. Also, I dont think compubox discriminates between punches landed on gloves, range finding taps etc and actual connective shots, so can be very misleading.

For me aggression has to be effective - ie it nullifies the opponents gameplan. Mannys aggression didn't do this - marquez was still able to make him miss and land solid counters all night, leaving manny looking a bit confused at times. It was a clear win for marquez IMO. That manny got it isn't the WORST robbery in boxing by any strecth, but it was an unfair decision nonetheless. The fact that one judge had it 116-112 in mannys favour turns an unfair decision into an outrage in the eyes of many. It's hard to fathom, when you watch the 36 rounds they've fought, how marquez walks away 0-2-1 from this trilogy when he clearly has mannys number, clearly is the superior technician and clearly did the larger volume of clean work.

Talk of a 4th fight is already circulating, Freddie Roach has said he doesn't want it to happen but thinks it has to.

johnson2 wrote:

oxring wrote:COMPUBOX FIGURES FOR LAST NIGHT: (ref boxrec)

CompuBox statistics: total punches landed, Pacquiao 176 of 578 and Marquez 138 of 436
CompuBox statistics: power punches landed, Pacquiao 117 and Marquez 100

There's plenty of inherent flaws with using compubox to score a fight.

Yet anyone who said this was, clearly and obviously Marquez' fight with NO debate is a bit off the mark IMO.

Anything can be proven with stats. When 95% percent of people think a boxer wins a fight chances are if the decision went the other way then it is a bad/corrupt decision.

You have no proof that 95% of viewers thought that Marquez won. Many thought he won, but many also thought Pacquiao won it.

Here's a thought-given that Marquez deserved the win, how does this affect the 'p4p' standings of each man?

What a disgrace to boxing...

BALTIMORA wrote:Here's a thought-given that Marquez deserved the win, how does this affect the 'p4p' standings of each man?

In spite of the fact that I'm not convinced by your former statement - Manny has to drop to 2 for me.

I know he's won his last 2 fights - but his performances have been less-than-stellar. Mayweather climbs back to the summit of the rankings. He, of course, would claim that he never left the top.


@sugar_boy_sweetie
I have to be careful - because I don't want to sound like D4 (especially cos he's claiming that Manny lost). I don't object to anyone who states that Marquez won - its the notion that the victory was so obviously Marquez's as to negate any arguments to the contrary - which is patently false.

I mostly agree with you on compubox - only thing I would say is that even if Marquez' gameplan leaves manny unable to implement his own to the extent he would like - Manny has still outlanded JMM with both single and power shots. Which brings us back to our effective aggression debate we had earlier - which is a bit cyclical.

BALTIMORA wrote:Here's a thought-given that Marquez deserved the win, how does this affect the 'p4p' standings of each man?

Am gonna do an article in a bit on whether your p4p status can improve in defeat, or decrease in victory Balti, as I was thinking about this earlier. I'd still rate manny no1 because he has a fine record and you cant ignore results you dont agree with. Marquez acquitted himself so well I'd bump him above Donaire into 3rd - think I was being generous having Nonito above JMM anyway at this stage of their respective careers. Regardless of manny being no1 and above marquez, JMM for me is the better fighter - he's proven now on more than one occassion that he can oubox and out think pacquiao, even 3 years and 10lbs past his best he has the smarts and technique to put in what should've been a winning performance. I said in relation to floyd v manny that manny needs a stylistic challenge as since JMM II he's been only overcoming physical ones (ie climbing weight and beating bigger, less technical guys). Always said floyd would outbox manny, this just reaffirms it even more.

Honestly don't know what Marquez has to do to get a decision against Pacquaio, the judges should hang their heads in shame, stinks of Arum's influence felt like putting my foot through the tele.

BALTIMORA wrote:Here's a thought-given that Marquez deserved the win, how does this affect the 'p4p' standings of each man?

With regards to the P4P list I did on ATG's thread, Mayweather and Pacquiao stay at 1 and 2 respectively. I have Marquez down at 7th or 8th, but he could have risen a tad. Had him behind Wlad and Gamboa, but in light of the way he 'lost', he has risen in my estimations.

oxring wrote:
In spite of the fact that I'm not convinced by your former statement - Manny has to drop to 2 for me.

I know he's won his last 2 fights - but his performances have been less-than-stellar. Mayweather climbs back to the summit of the rankings. He, of course, would claim that he never left the top

4 rounds in 18 months against a guy who quit against maidana and drew with Lamont Peterson isn't enough for floyd to reclaim top spot off manny. Manny may have looked less than stellar against mosley and struggled again with marquez, but at least he's been fighting and logically the more you fight the more your chance of having an off night - floyd cant jump back in by virtue of his own inactivity, manny still hasn't lost.

Outrageous decision, and the worst scoring I can remember since Whitaker-Ramirez I. Not read the rest of the comments, I scored the first even but couldn't score another to Marquez.

Pacquiao barely landed a clean punch, Marquez controlled the range, landed all the clean shots, slipped, parried and completely dominated Pacquiao.

That is shocking.

Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

It's early days but based on the rapid replays here, it is safe to assume there will be a clamouring for a rematch and an increasing sense of injustice for Marquez.

If this does indeed produce a 4th fight, I hope that is scored neutrally (as many of you will say last night should have been) and not swung too far against Manny if he doesn't KO him.

Just thinking about Morales Barrera 2 and how the rematch was scored after what people thought of the first fight. Giving it to Barrera in a flawed attempt to correct a perceived injustice.

Two wrongs don't make a right,

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

oxring wrote:
In spite of the fact that I'm not convinced by your former statement - Manny has to drop to 2 for me.

I know he's won his last 2 fights - but his performances have been less-than-stellar. Mayweather climbs back to the summit of the rankings. He, of course, would claim that he never left the top

4 rounds in 18 months against a guy who quit against maidana and drew with Lamont Peterson isn't enough for floyd to reclaim top spot off manny. Manny may have looked less than stellar against mosley and struggled again with marquez, but at least he's been fighting and logically the more you fight the more your chance of having an off night - floyd cant jump back in by virtue of his own inactivity, manny still hasn't lost.

Its close. Maybe in a day or 2 I'll remind myself that in spite of clearly not being what he once was - Manny still hasn't lost since Morales.

For today, however - Ortiz was a real test (allegedly) and a champion who had roared to redemption with a FOTY against Berto. There's 2 ways of looking at a fight - and suggesting that Berto was gifted the title, didn't really beat Collazo who he never rematched and then lost to a guy who drew with Lamont Peterson - that would be a reasonable way of looking at things as well.

I still reckon Manny drops off the top spot - just for how bad he's looked on his last 2 outings.

BALTIMORA wrote:Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

Manny landed more power punches as well. Allegedly, Balti.

I will wait until compubox do their round-by-round analysis before drawing anything too definite about it. Like I said - this is only up on boxrec at the minute.

oxring wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

oxring wrote:
In spite of the fact that I'm not convinced by your former statement - Manny has to drop to 2 for me.

I know he's won his last 2 fights - but his performances have been less-than-stellar. Mayweather climbs back to the summit of the rankings. He, of course, would claim that he never left the top

4 rounds in 18 months against a guy who quit against maidana and drew with Lamont Peterson isn't enough for floyd to reclaim top spot off manny. Manny may have looked less than stellar against mosley and struggled again with marquez, but at least he's been fighting and logically the more you fight the more your chance of having an off night - floyd cant jump back in by virtue of his own inactivity, manny still hasn't lost.

Its close. Maybe in a day or 2 I'll remind myself that in spite of clearly not being what he once was - Manny still hasn't lost since Morales.

For today, however - Ortiz was a real test (allegedly) and a champion who had roared to redemption with a FOTY against Berto. There's 2 ways of looking at a fight - and suggesting that Berto was gifted the title, didn't really beat Collazo who he never rematched and then lost to a guy who drew with Lamont Peterson - that would be a reasonable way of looking at things as well.

I still reckon Manny drops off the top spot - just for how bad he's looked on his last 2 outings.

Not 'officially'...

Scottrf wrote:Outrageous decision, and the worst scoring I can remember since Whitaker-Ramirez I. Not read the rest of the comments, I scored the first even but couldn't score another to Marquez.

Pacquiao barely landed a clean punch, Marquez controlled the range, landed all the clean shots, slipped, parried and completely dominated Pacquiao.

That is shocking.

Worse than Huck-Lebedev/Holyfield-Lewis1/Morales-barrera1/Morales-barrera2? I have to be honest - I've seen worse "robberies" in the last 6 months.

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

Manny landed more power punches as well. Allegedly, Balti.

I will wait until compubox do their round-by-round analysis before drawing anything too definite about it. Like I said - this is only up on boxrec at the minute.

If you are waiting for compubox to cast a judgement you don't know how to score a fight.

Ring generalship: Marquez always had the outside foot and controlled range by backing up.
Clean punching: Marquez in every round.
Defense: Marquez was pivoting, slipping and parrying, Pacquiao wasn't even moving his head.
Effective aggression: I can see people thinking Pacquiao won by this simply because he was walking forwards. Marquez was initiating the exchanges.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:
4 rounds in 18 months against a guy who quit against maidana and drew with Lamont Peterson isn't enough for floyd to reclaim top spot off manny. Manny may have looked less than stellar against mosley and struggled again with marquez, but at least he's been fighting and logically the more you fight the more your chance of having an off night - floyd cant jump back in by virtue of his own inactivity, manny still hasn't lost.

Come off it, manny was suppose to blow over both mosley and JMM. Mosley was picked because he was 40, mayweather only beat him by points, and he had never been stopped. Manny chose him as he thought he could take him out and make a statement. Yes mosley was defensive and went down, but manny COULDN'T pick up the pace for any period of time and looked awful. Adding the fact mosley was dominated by mayweather and couldn't beat Mora (probably should have lost) than mosley was a less than credible fight. JMM is a warrior, BUT, he is 38, was dominated and went down vs mayweather and struggled vs katsidis who has been beaten by ricky burns, guerrero and wasn't anything but a euro level fighter. Ortiz was a easy(ish) opponent, but he was young, fast, big, looked an animal at the weight and was in a FOTY vs a fighter who was touted as a possible opponent for manny.

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

Manny landed more power punches as well. Allegedly, Balti.

I will wait until compubox do their round-by-round analysis before drawing anything too definite about it. Like I said - this is only up on boxrec at the minute.

I don't know any different to you on this, I'm just saying it's possible the stats are misleading.

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

Manny landed more power punches as well. Allegedly, Balti.

I will wait until compubox do their round-by-round analysis before drawing anything too definite about it. Like I said - this is only up on boxrec at the minute.

If you are waiting for compubox to cast a judgement you don't know how to score a fight.

Ring generalship: Marquez always had the outside foot and controlled range by backing up.
Clean punching: Marquez in every round.
Defense: Marquez was pivoting, slipping and parrying, Pacquiao wasn't even moving his head.
Effective aggression: I can see people thinking Pacquiao won by this simply because he was walking forwards. Marquez was initiating the exchanges.

I appreciate that you, by your own admission, haven't been following the debate thus far - but perhaps you should have a quick trawl back.

I will wait on compubox doing a round-by-round until I believe their statistics. Not I will wait on compubox before scoring the fight.

I scored the fight to Pacquiao without knowing the compubox - I had him edging a close decision. Overall I have always favoured effective aggression - I felt Manny's was effective enough in enough of the rounds. That doesn't mean I had him winning every round - far from it - there were plenty which I gave to Marquez.

BALTIMORA wrote:

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

Manny landed more power punches as well. Allegedly, Balti.

I will wait until compubox do their round-by-round analysis before drawing anything too definite about it. Like I said - this is only up on boxrec at the minute.

I don't know any different to you on this, I'm just saying it's possible the stats are misleading.

Totally agree - I would also add the possibility, given that they're only up on boxrec - that they're not the real compubox figures - which are normally given a "seal of approval" a couple of days later, with a round-by-round.

Poor, poor decision, simple as that. This is the type of thing which makes people want to turn their back on boxing. I'm a little perplexed by people continually stating things such as 'Well, I've seen worse decisions.' That's irrelevant. Whether or not others have been ripped off worse than Marquez was last night is not the point - the point is, he was ripped off, whichever way you look at it.

Genuine question, as I know there are a few on here; how did anyone score that fight in Pacquiao's favour, or even deem him worthy of a draw? Which departments do you feel he was superior to Marquez in? And crucially, what six or more rounds did you somehow score to Pacquiao?

oxring wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

oxring wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Talking of Pacquiao having landed more punches, as indicated by Compubox-by that measure then a fighter could land ten pitty-patty punches which have little effect and based on that they'd 'out-score' an opponent who lands only two shots which are huge bombs which rattle the other guy to the very core.

Manny landed more power punches as well. Allegedly, Balti.

I will wait until compubox do their round-by-round analysis before drawing anything too definite about it. Like I said - this is only up on boxrec at the minute.

If you are waiting for compubox to cast a judgement you don't know how to score a fight.

Ring generalship: Marquez always had the outside foot and controlled range by backing up.
Clean punching: Marquez in every round.
Defense: Marquez was pivoting, slipping and parrying, Pacquiao wasn't even moving his head.
Effective aggression: I can see people thinking Pacquiao won by this simply because he was walking forwards. Marquez was initiating the exchanges.

I appreciate that you, by your own admission, haven't been following the debate thus far - but perhaps you should have a quick trawl back.

I will wait on compubox doing a round-by-round until I believe their statistics. Not I will wait on compubox before scoring the fight.

I scored the fight to Pacquiao without knowing the compubox - I had him edging a close decision. Overall I have always favoured effective aggression - I felt Manny's was effective enough in enough of the rounds. That doesn't mean I had him winning every round - far from it - there were plenty which I gave to Marquez.

He wasn't effective. His shots were falling short, being slipped and parried.

TechInept wrote:Haha I think schooling is bit far I've got Pacman 2 maybe 3 rounds up at the start of round 10. I was expecting Pac to be doing much better though.

Seriously? Manny up at round ten? What fight were you watching Tech?

88Chris05 wrote:Poor, poor decision, simple as that. This is the type of thing which makes people want to turn their back on boxing. I'm a little perplexed by people continually stating things such as 'Well, I've seen worse decisions.' That's irrelevant. Whether or not others have been ripped off worse than Marquez was last night is not the point - the point is, he was ripped off, whichever way you look at it.

Genuine question, as I know there are a few on here; how did anyone score that fight in Pacquiao's favour, or even deem him worthy of a draw? Which departments do you feel he was superior to Marquez in? And crucially, what six or more rounds did you somehow score to Pacquiao?

1, 4, 7, 11 off the top of my head to Manny (+3 more, obviously) - I've lost my scrap of paper with my round by round scoring.

7 I thought was a bit contentious of the ones I scored - and I wouldn't argue at all if someone made a case for it going to Marquez. Marquez landed some nice combinations - and was controlling the space beautifully and stepping back early. However, Manny had some success doubling up his right hand late in the round and managed to drive Marquez back - rather than Marquez just stepping back. Overall in that round, I felt Manny had edged it in terms of forcing the pace, rather than Marquez controlling the pace.

Serious, genuine question-suppose one fighter controls 2:30 of a round and his opponent is dominant in the last thirty seconds-who wins the round? Do you opt for the guy who had a longer spell of success or the guy who was successful as the round came to an end?

Oxy, I actually agree that Pacquiao won round seven, just about - however, I couldn't give him anything at all in the first five, aside from perhaps a share of the first at best. Pacquiao showed more aggression early on, but none of it effective.

Marquez's counter-punching had Pacquiao in fits, and the Filipino rarely landed anything of any real consequence. Pacquiao was never really hurt either, but the cleaner, more accurate boxing was (continually) coming from Marquez. I was surprised at how average Manny looked at times; he looked at a total loss at how to counter Marquez moving to his left (Pacquiao's right) which in turn made Pacquiao's deadly left hand redundant. He was off balance, hitting thin air with wild, swinging punches, you name it.

Balti, that sounds like a Sugar Ray Leonard question. Didn't he say once that he had his trainer shout out when there were only 30 seconds left in the round, then he'd throw punches and in his mind win the round?

Think this is the reason Manny has been being so difficult with Floyd. Floyd basically gives in to everything Manny asks for and he wont give a spec of blood.

Styles make fights and all that, put Manny would just be eating Floyds straight right all night. 120-108, with the judges obviously having it closer. something like 116-112.

Atila wrote:Balti, that sounds like a Sugar Ray Leonard question. Didn't he say once that he had his trainer shout out when there were only 30 seconds left in the round, then he'd throw punches and in his mind win the round?

Hagler fight.