Celtic vs Top14 vs Jeff teams

by maestegmafia Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

So far it looks like the only Celtic League teams to lose were league propers Connacht and Airioni, the Mighty Leinster drew with Montpellier in France but otherwise all others played well and won their matches.

Treviso will play Saracens imminently - Should be a win to the Home side unless they have underestimated Treviso as many do...!

Top 14 teams best result being the Draw between Leinster and Montpellier though Toulouse play Gloucester at home this afternoon and should get a result.

The Jeff teams so far three loses one win. The win was top of the league Quins against historically one of the weakest Celtic League teams Connacht. Saracens should gain another win this afternoon.

by Rava Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:55 pm

beshocked wrote:Seen weakest by whom?

Look at the table from last season as well. My interest is in the Pro 12. I see these sides play week in and out therefore I feel able to make the statement.
Treviso have done remarkably well and I hope they continue to do well. I do think you need to look at the comparison between those players lost against the replacements rather than an overall they had x away and they had y away.

A lot of Rabo 12 sides are at a similar level.
Correct my friend. That is a statement that can be made about any league and any sport. There are top teams, average teams and weak teams

I brought up the Scottish success because there is always this talk about the Celtic teams and how great they are compared to top 14 sides and AP sides.

Thats quite a generalisation. When you are trumpeting the AP are you including Newcastle, Worcester, etc? I would point out though that I personally don't get into league comparisons. I find that very difficult to assess. When it comes to HC there are many factors that influence the outcome of these games.

Also the bit about coat tails is meant as a joke. This is because generally the Welsh love to go on about Munster and Leinster's HC wins to show how great the Pro12 is.

I'm Irish and I wish you would include Ulster when you are talking HC wins

I haven't done the Pro12 players missing from their respective clubs due to the world cup but surely it can't be as high as Treviso?

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:16 pm

Ah it's the annual Jeff v Celtic League argument. Now I know the Heineken Cup is truly back.

All I have to add is this. Leinster are the Heineken Cup Champions and therefore, the best team in Europe. And the the league we play in makes no difference to our brilliance. Yahoo

We put teams from all nations to sword with equal cruelty. Link

by beshocked Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:38 pm

Don't remind me Feckless Rogue. Sad

I went to that match at the RDS - Leinster vs Saracens. Made painful viewing for me but Leinster were simply awesome.

Leinster are the team to beat.

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:53 pm

To be honest we'll really miss Hines. And O'Driscoll and Horgan are injured. I think we're a bit weaker than last year and Toulouse are a bit stronger. And a lot depends on who gets home quarters and semi's.

For me the favourites are Toulouse followed by Leinster. Munster, Tigers and Northampton have crucial experience and pedigree in the tournament. Saracens, Clermont and Ospreys have the squads to do it too. After them there's some longer shots like Cardiff Blues and Biarritz who've shown they can compete.

The contenders are pretty evenly spread between the three League's if you ask me.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:00 pm

Yeah,I think we can win it if we get home quarter and semi draws.We'd have a chance away from home against most teams but there is an awful lot of luck involved with the draw.Still I expect to make the semis by topping the group and winning a home quarter,after that we'll have to see who we're up against.

We need Sexton to stay fit and Healy too by the looks of things on saturday.

by Rava Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:06 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Ah it's the annual Jeff v Celtic League argument. Now I know the Heineken Cup is truly back.

All I have to add is this. Leinster are the Heineken Cup Champions and therefore, the best team in Europe. And the the league we play in makes no difference to our brilliance.

We put teams from all nations to sword with equal cruelty. Link

The sword was a little bit blunt at the weekend though Feckless Wink

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:07 pm

Jaysus Feckless - thats a great LINK. I try to be humble about how good we were then i see that, and I get cocky all over again !!
Awesome stuff - and that was just the group stages.

censored

Gloat over.

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:13 pm

Rava wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:Ah it's the annual Jeff v Celtic League argument. Now I know the Heineken Cup is truly back.

All I have to add is this. Leinster are the Heineken Cup Champions and therefore, the best team in Europe. And the the league we play in makes no difference to our brilliance.

We put teams from all nations to sword with equal cruelty. Link

The sword was a little bit blunt at the weekend though Feckless

Luckily for Montpellier we forgot to bring our sword to France. Luckily for us Sexton brought a dagger to stab their posts through the middle at the end.

Leinster are one of those teams that have a collective resilience which means we're very hard to beat even if we're outplayed. And we were outplayed for much of that game. It was an impressive performance from a young Montpellier team. We'll play better next week hopefully.

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:20 pm

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Jaysus Feckless - thats a great LINK. I try to be humble about how good we were then i see that, and I get cocky all over again !!
Awesome stuff - and that was just the group stages.

Gloat over.

Everything clicked last year hurley. We had the squad to do it and the right coach came along it all just clicked. I thought we looked like the best team in Europe from very early on. I put 20 quid on Leinster when we were still 11/2. Very Happy

But staying at the top is probably harder than getting there. We'll be more analysed now. Wales in the World Cup, and now Montpellier at the weekend have done a better job of containing O'Brien than anyone managed last year. Not that I'm worried about O'Brien. He's still a class act. He's just a marked man now. We have to keep evolving. I'm hopeful about Fitzgerald. He looks sharper, more composed and even a bit quicker if you ask me.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:22 pm

There's some brilliant rugby in that link.

Don't know how much bearing it'll have on this season's Heineken Cup, but still, well worth watching!

by Comfort Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:29 pm

Blues for the cup! appletini

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:34 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote: We have to keep evolving I'm hopeful about Fitzgerald. He looks sharper, more composed and even a bit quicker if you ask me.

That was as good a perfromance from Fitzgerald as I've ever seen.

I think his previous bad form was typified by doing silly things like overrunning the ball carrier and messing up good attacking plays but he made one break on saturday where he had no support and seemed to slow down to allow his teammates catch up with him,instead of ploughing on head first getting isolated and probably conceding the turnover he waited,took contact on his own terms and presented good quality ball.He looked like a different player.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:36 pm

Yeah, last year was a dream year really. Not just winning but doing it scoring great tries and playing top class stuff.
I am a bit worried about our midfield lacking creativity this yr.
As we know very tough to win this 2 yrs in a a row. Hopefully Schmidt will have a few more killer back moves up his sleeve.
Watching that clip reminds us how good Sexton is at the creative stuff, and despite what some posters say our creativity came from a range of players, not just nacewa.

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:42 pm

Yeah Sexton linked really well with O'Driscoll. I thought Sexton made the most of O'Driscoll's quick rugby brain and soft hands, in their interchanges, with Sexton injecting the pace that BOD doesn't have anymore. He also wasn't shy of throwing a dummy and just running at the defence himself.

Anyway, it looks like the Leinster self-appreciation club has taken over this thread. So everyone else can clear off.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:45 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Yeah Sexton linked really well with O'Driscoll. I thought Sexton made the most of O'Driscoll's quick rugby brain and soft hands, in their interchanges, with Sexton injecting the pace that BOD doesn't have anymore. He also wasn't shy of throwing a dummy and just running at the defence himself.

Anyway, it looks like the Leinster self-appreciation club has taken over this thread. So everyone else can clear off.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:46 pm

Comfort wrote:Blues for the cup!

Even Comfort is getting in on the act (assuming of course he means Leinster when he says the Blues !!)

by **rodders** Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:51 pm

Anyone else think Leinster are just one trick ponies who will be exposed this season?........ Run

by beshocked Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:52 pm

Feckless Rogue if that's the case Maestegmafia should change the title.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:57 pm

roddersm wrote:Anyone else think Leinster are just one trick ponies who will be exposed this season?........

The only problem with that thoery is our one trick happens to be winning. Yahoo

by **LondonTiger** Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:03 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
roddersm wrote:Anyone else think Leinster are just one trick ponies who will be exposed this season?........

The only problem with that thoery is our one trick happens to be winning.

Would that trick be:

Score more points than the opposition?

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:10 pm

Leinster's 'one-trick' is over-whelming the opposition with sublime multi-dimensional attacking rugby.

Anyone see that movie Immortals yet? Apparently there is a scene in the directors cut version where Zeus and the boys are chilling with a few tinnies, a few scantily clad goddesses lying around, while they watch the Leinster 2011 season dvd.
Zeus was speechless. And Ares was particularly impressed with the Tullow Tank.

All this is true.

by **rodders** Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:13 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
roddersm wrote:Anyone else think Leinster are just one trick ponies who will be exposed this season?........

The only problem with that thoery is our one trick happens to be winning.

Would that trick be:

Score more points than the opposition?

It's easy. You stop them from getting quick ball, dominate their scrum and lineout, stop their ball a carriers on the gainline, don't concede kickable penalties and try to stop them from scoring. I can't understand how the opposition teams a haven't worked it out yet. Headscratch

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:16 pm

Thought Montpellier did a pretty decent job at the weekend personally. Didn't do too much wrong tactically.

Hopefully Glasgow can find a way to trouble Sexton and co next Sunday. Not holding my breath though.

by Mickado Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:19 pm

I think it’s a fair point on O’Brien being over analysed. It was always going to be the case, but when they double up on him it leaves room for out other ball carriers, that’s why I think Healy will be our player of the year, he’ll make hay while they shackle O’Brien.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:20 pm

FeS - If glasgow can get a good start they could make life uncomfortable for us.
12.45 Sunday kick-offs, from my recollection, tend to find Leinster a bit lethargic.

by HURLEY_BURLEY Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:21 pm

Mickado wrote:I think it’s a fair point on O’Brien being over analysed. It was always going to be the case, but when they double up on him it leaves room for out other ball carriers, that’s why I think Healy will be our player of the year, he’ll make hay while they shackle O’Brien.

Don't forget Strauss Mickado. He has started to look really good again. If O'Brien starts with a few offloads to him and Healy (& Cronin off the bench), then we could start to find a lot of space.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:27 pm

What Glasgow will do well is scrap and tackle, and based on the Bath game, take what opportunities they get.

Where I'm concerned is that whilst Bath dominated possession and territory, they lacked the skill and creativity to break down the Glasgow line, despite numerous opportunities. I don't think Leinster will be as wasteful, and on top of that, have several big carriers to create the initial bust.

I think the Glasgow scrum and line out will fare pretty well. Cusack is a menace at tighthead and Gray and Kellock are a top class combination. My concerns are more in general play, where Leinster have the better ball carriers and more skill.

by Comfort Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:32 pm

we alll know i meant Leinster! Yahoo

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:54 pm

The Cup has only ever been retained once. So I'll be happy if Leinster play well and are still knocking about near the end.

I think 9 separate clubs have won the Heineken Cup. Who will be the next new Heineken Cup winner?

Will a French big spender like Toulon buy their way to Glory? Or will Clermont finally live up to how good they look "on paper"?

Will Saracens follow up their Jeff title with advances in Europe?

Will a Welsh team ever win it? Their players are good enough.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:57 pm

Connacht?

Seriously I think Clermont are favourites to be the next new winner of the Heino.

by Feckless Rogue Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:59 pm

Not until they replace Brock James with ROG.

by Mickado Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:18 pm

Skrela is as bad. Flakey player.

by robbo277 Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:21 pm

Think this is representation in the initial squads, and it is according to Wikipedia so it might be wrong, but this is the table I've seen:

14 Leinster, VVA-Podmoskovye
13 Clermont, Toulouse
12 Benetton Treviso, Crusaders, Montpellier
11 Leicester Tigers, Ospreys
10 Aironi, Reds, Sale Sharks, Scarlets, Stade Français

by maestegmafia Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:32 pm

robbo277 wrote:Think this is representation in the initial squads, and it is according to Wikipedia so it might be wrong, but this is the table I've seen:

14 Leinster, VVA-Podmoskovye
13 Clermont, Toulouse
12 Benetton Treviso, Crusaders, Montpellier
11 Leicester Tigers, Ospreys
10 Aironi, Reds, Sale Sharks, Scarlets, Stade Français

That's an interesting list.

by Glas a du Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:02 am

Celtic play football.

It's the Pro12, it's not hard.

by Mickado Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:05 am

robbo277 wrote:Think this is representation in the initial squads, and it is according to Wikipedia so it might be wrong, but this is the table I've seen:

14 Leinster, VVA-Podmoskovye
13 Clermont, Toulouse
12 Benetton Treviso, Crusaders, Montpellier
11 Leicester Tigers, Ospreys
10 Aironi, Reds, Sale Sharks, Scarlets, Stade Français

Is that the amount of players who were at the world cup from each team?

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:12 am

Glas a du wrote:It's the Pro12, it's not hard.

That's what its detractors say.

by geoff998rugby Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:29 pm

LondonTiger wrote: While Welsh and Scottish sides did very well in Round 1 it is far too early to say that we have seen a major shift.

I thionk your find the Irish did quite well too

Munster beat one of the top 2/3 in the Englsih league
Ulster beat one of the top 2/3 in the French league
Leinster drew away from home, in France, and given the other result in the group are very strong favourites for their group.
Connacht gave the leading English side the fright of their lives away from home.

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