Who will be the winners in week 2 of the HEC

First topic message reminder :

Pool 1

Northampton v Scarlets Fri 20:00
Castres v Munster Sat 15:40

Pool 2

Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Fri 20:00
Edinburgh v Racing Metro, Fri 20:00

Pool 3

Bath v Montpellier, Sun 15:00
Leinster v Glasgow, Sun 12:45

Pool 4
Leicester v Ulster, Sat 18:00
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Fri 20:00

Pool 5

Treviso v Ospreys, Sat 13:30
Biarritz v Saracens, Sat 13:30

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse, Sat 18:00
Gloucester v Harlequins, Sat 15:40

Ozzy

Totally agree they have looked a class act this season (albeit I have only watched highlights), and yes they are doing it the "right" way bringing through young English talent,,,,,,,,,,,,, so credit where it is due

Thankfully this seems to be the tale of a lot of clubs. provinces and regions, We have alot of young local talent coming through as have Glagow, and in Wales the Ospreys, Scarlets and Dragons are doing the same.

All bodes well

Ozzy3213 wrote:they are bringing through a lot of young English talent such as Jamie George, Harry Allen, Jared Saunders, George Kruis, Andy Saull, Will Fraser, Owen Farrell, James Short, Alex Goode and Ben Ransom to name a few, all of whom have played in the first team in the past 18 months and all of whom have represented England at U20 or Saxons level in that time as well.

Here are the Saracens teams for the last three big games...

Saracens vs Treviso: Wyles, Strettle, Farrell, Barritt, Short, Hodgson, De Kock; Gill, Brits, Stevens, Borthwick, Smith, Brown, Saull, Joubert.

Replacements: Melck for Saull (2), Spencer for de Kock (18), Carstens for Gill (56), Nieto for Stevens (56), Smit for Brits (58), Goode for Wyles (61), Powell for Barritt (66), Kruis for Borthwick (65).

Saracens vs Sale: Goode, Strettle, Farrell, Barritt, Wyles, Hodgson, de Kock, Carstens, Brits, Nieto, Borthwick, Botha, Brown, Burger, Joubert.
Replacements: Short for Goode (52), Powell for Farrell (63), Spencer for de Kock (60), Gill for Carstens (52), George for Brits (60), Stevens for Nieto (52), Smith for Botha (52), Saull for Joubert (71).

Saracens vs Gloucester: Goode, Strettle, Farrell, Barritt, Short, Hodgson, de Kock, Gill, Brits, Nieto, Borthwick, Botha, Brown, Burger, Joubert.
Replacements: Wyles for Short (51), Maddock for Hodgson (66), Carstens for Nieto (49), Smith for Botha (51), Stevens for Burger (49). Not Used: George, Saull, Spencer.

Only Farrell and Goode went through the Saracens academies according to your list that seem to play regularly in decent games.

FHF seems to be right that Saracens rely on a great deal of outside developed talent. Vs Gloucester Borthwick is the only English player until the flyhalf. Not too much difference for the other line ups.

It does seem that Saracens are putting a lot more relevance on buying in talent, particularly from SA rather than use those English players they are developing.

maes

You have selected three games out of about 50 over the past season and a bit to illustrate your point, which is something we could all do carefully selecting the games that we wanted to illustrate our own.

The point is this. Saracens bring in quality overseas and English talent, and use them to assist with the development of their youngsters whilst maintaining a strong enough squad to compete at the top end of things.

It would be follish to expect that you would see a team full of those academy players/graduates that I have listed playing against top AP sides or in HEC games. They come into the team interspersed amongst senior players and get gametime, with Saull, Goode and Farrell all being talked about for senior England honours at some point during the past 18 months.

In terms of development of English players Saracens have one of the best academies around and are making great use of it.

Thank you Ozzy. Also you just need to look at the numerous amount of players in the England U18s and U20s from Saracens.

As far I am concerned Barritt is English because he has an English mother. He has played for England saxons and plays for an English club.

Maestegmafia you forgot to mention Short who has come through our academy. He has definitely played regularly in decent games! He is our first choice left winger.


Matt Stevens is English as far I am concerned too.


Chris Wyles was born in USA but moved to England when was 11. He speaks with an English accent. He could have played for England but chose USA. I am not saying he is English just saying it isn't as clear cut as you make it sound.


http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,9989_7198445,00.html

Just look at the 23 that played Leicester recently. Plenty of English qualified players. I count 17 EQ.

No worries beshocked. Much as it was fun at the start taunting you guys with the 'Saffacens' tag, it is now old, tired and cliched and ignorant of the facts about the club. If I am not mistaken, looking at your team for that match against Tigers there are 11 academy players/graduates in the 23 man squad, which is a sign of how well your academy is doing.

Yes Ozzy. I know it gets boring having to explain the difference between reality and fiction.

There are two sides to every argument.

Something like that. The refreshing thing is when the academy players don't look out of their depth.

I am course at loggerheads with maestegmafia because he is a passionate Ospreys fan.Obviously we are in the same group and some of my comments could be interpreted as arrogance. Not sure what I did to upset morganwwg though.

I am sure there are arguments that can be found for most results happening this weekend.

Ah, you'll never get agreement between supporters of teams in the same pool who really believe in their team. I am at a slight disadvantage when discussing my own teams chances this week after a p i s s poor performance last time out, although I comfort myself in the knowledge that we never perform well when we are favourites and are much more likely to get a result as underdogs, particularly away from home. So far this season we have travelled to what I consider to be the three toughest away grounds in the AP, Kingsholm, Franklins Gardens and Welford Road, with our worst result being a 3 point loss to Gloucester, and us picking up 7 match points as a result, as opposed to the 0 match points we collected from those fixtures last year.

Roll on Friday night, love the Heino, cannot wait!!!

I see that Schalk Brits has been cited for a spear/tip tackle beshocked. I've not seen the game at all. Much in it?

Ozzy London Irish are one of those sides you never write off.

You beat Leinster away in 2009. You came back against Leicester at WR to draw the game. this season.

You shocked Saracens in last season's London double header (not many people remember this result but I do). Admittedly not the first time we have been shocked in the double header and definitely hasn't been the last!

London Irish are both capable of the sublime and the ridiculous in equal measure.

Realistically Cardiff should win but it's London Irish!

Bloody Warburton! After his tip tackle every man and his dog is being cited for dangerous tackles! I didn't actually see the incident though I went to the game (it happened so fast). No replays either on the big screen which is a shame. By all accounts he deserved the citing and will be banned. Hopefully it's only for 3 weeks.

Not a big blow surprisingly (as long as it is only 3 weeks). Brits hasn't been in the best form. Maybe Smit's arrival has rattled him? We have John Smit and Jamie George to fill the breach so hardly a crisis yet.

I was at the RDS for that game beshocked, man I was hammered that night, thought we were going to walk the pool after that, but lost to the Scarlets twice and only managed to draw with Leinster at home in R6.

Smit's not a bad replacement hooker is he, think most teams would settle for that.

That's London Irish for you.

Smit has already made an impact by burrowing over for a try vs Treviso.. No 2s at Saracens do seem to have a habit of scoring tries!

Brits is the obvious but Jamie George scored at hatrick against Cambridge on Monday I believe! He also scored a try vs Leicester in that game. Scott Spurling, yet another no 2 from Saracens Academy scores tries too. He is a no 2 but played no 8 vs Cambridge and got a try too!

You do seem to have lots of good young hookers coming through with George, Allen and Spurling. Am I right in thinking they have all represented England at either U20 or U18 level recently???

Not sure about Allen but definitely the other two.

Pool 1
Northampton v Scarlets Fri 20:00
Castres v Munster Sat 15:40
Northampton with a try bonus point and Scarlets go home with nothing.
Castres will be up for a game against the aging powerhouse of european rugby, and at home will win without a tbp but Munster might just graps a lbp

Pool 2
Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Fri 20:00
Edinburgh v Racing Metro, Fri 20:00
Really not sure how this group stage goes, Racing are huge but might not be focused for a trip to Edinburgh. They get their lbp but Edinburgh don't get 4 tries.
Blues v LI is a toss of a coin.

Pool 3
Bath v Montpellier, Sun 15:00
Leinster v Glasgow, Sun 12:45
Montpellier's first away game in the HC, they will have just as much intensity as they did at home. They will go all out in this game, if they lose, they will send second string teams to away games for the rest of the group stage. I reckon an away win by less than 7.
Leinster to pick up 4 tries and the bonus point.

Pool 4
Leicester v Ulster, Sat 18:00
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Fri 20:00
I'm not sure I see Leicester clicking back into gear in this game, Welford Road hasn't been the fortress this season and Ulster are up on confidence (which is the most dangerous time to play them). Ulster by less than 7 points.
Clermont get the 4 tries (and possibly 2 extra tries on top).

Pool 5
Treviso v Ospreys, Sat 13:30
Biarritz v Saracens, Sat 13:30
Treviso will put it up to Ospreys and it will be a tight game, but I reckon Ospreys by less than 7 points. Treviso won't concede 4 tries though.
Biarritz and Saracens is a toss of a coin but home advantage to swing it.

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse, Sat 18:00
Gloucester v Harlequins, Sat 15:40
Connacht will be plucky (hate that word), and Toulouse pick up the try bonus point. Media to border on patronising taking about Connachts heart and determination.
Home advantage is the only thing making me go to the cherry & whites. O'Shea could get a good away win for Quins just as likely.


Overall, some very close to call games and not automatic home wins which will be nice to see.

Downside, I wonder where the try fest will come from!

thebandwagonsociety your predictions are really strange in my opinion.

You seem to think that the team bottom of the Top 14 will beat the English champions who have won 11 away in a row yet believe that Ulster will beat Leicester and Montpellier will beat Bath?

You're a mad man in my opinion!

Hey Ozzy I weren't winding anyone up. Beshocked seems to think it's Sarries pool to lose and when I don't agree that they will win a game I get told I know nothing about Saracens. Sarries were actually once my favourite team in England because all the other teams hated them and their coach, it was amusing.

Interesting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15725328.stm
The (Llanelli) Scarlets were the last team to beat Northampton at Franklins Gardens in this competition. Strangly, things like this often give the team bags of confidence. An upset could be on the cards, but I can't see Saints losing two in a row, just like I can't see Biarritz losing two in row.

Ozzy3213 wrote:The point is this. Saracens bring in quality overseas and English talent, and use them to assist with the development of their youngsters whilst maintaining a strong enough squad to compete at the top end of things.

It would be follish to expect that you would see a team full of those academy players/graduates that I have listed playing against top AP sides or in HEC games. They come into the team interspersed amongst senior players and get gametime, with Saull, Goode and Farrell all being talked about for senior England honours at some point during the past 18 months.

In terms of development of English players Saracens have one of the best academies around and are making great use of it.

Good points. All teams that can afford to do it do just that.

Morgannwg I apologise. I just haven't seen any post from you which suggests you do. Maybe it's harsh to make such a bold assumption. Prove me wrong.

We are the favourites. We are playing a team bottom of the Top 14 away from home. Real opportunity to notch up the away win.

I thought you said that the Ospreys vs Saracens game at the Liberty Stadium is a foregone conclusion.

All the other teams hate us? That's almost as bad as me saying you know nothing about Saracens.

We are the most popular team in the AP. Didn't you know that?

I know EFS hates us. Why not? Of course some fans from rivals teams will but all?

Unfortunately for you our new DOR is no longer amusing. He's competent though.

Biarritz have already lost two in a row....Actually they can't buy a win at the moment. Doesn't mean the win is guaranteed before the game is played but I am confident.

Scarlets beat Saints 7 years ago at FG. It's virtually ancient history.

On 606 v2 Saracens are one of the least favourite English clubs. That's true.

The runaway winners of least favourite club are the Ospreys though.

I don't watch Sarries much. I've watched them in two Premiership finals and a play-off against Northampton away. All games that I enjoyed. Have to admit they aren't really a hated team any more so I pay less attention. On BBC 606 Sarries and Brendan Venter were disliked, a lot.

It's good that your confident, but it's a star-studded Biarritz team playing at home who won't lose two on the trot in this competition after recent years of playing well in the same comp. They played well on the weekend. Only bookies will point the finger at their position in the league, people who pay attention to rugby wouldn't because it perhaps reflects the strength of teams in the Top 14.

As for Ospreys, I think they'll win all their home games as will Saracens and Biarritz. The pool may be decided on losing bonus points and try bonus points (which the Ospreys aren't picking up).

Morgannwg wrote:Hey Ozzy I weren't winding anyone up. Beshocked seems to think it's Sarries pool to lose and when I don't agree that they will win a game I get told I know nothing about Saracens. Sarries were actually once my favourite team in England because all the other teams hated them and their coach, it was amusing.

Interesting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15725328.stm
The (Llanelli) Scarlets were the last team to beat Northampton at Franklins Gardens in this competition. Strangly, things like this often give the team bags of confidence. An upset could be on the cards, but I can't see Saints losing two in a row, just like I can't see Biarritz losing two in row.

The Scarlets of seven years ago were a very different team and they have lost great players like Quinnell and Jon Davies who made a huge difference to their fortunes back then, though they have blooded some very promising new players. They look more and more well rounded each season and always playing a Scarlets (formally Llanelli) type brand of rugby that is effective and pleasing to watch.

I used to like Saracens in the early nineties, it was a great club, one of my friends lads played for them at scrum half. Though the club has changed a great deal from then.

Morgannwg ok I will happily admit I don't know much about the so called star studded Biarritz team bar Balshaw,Nwengya,Traille,Harinorduquy,Barcella,Marconnet and Thion.

I think they are good but other than them?

4 in the pack I have heard of. Plus I think they have another French international in the backrow.

If you could give me some more information on the Biarritz players I know little about I would appreciate it.

E.g. their half backs?

No Yachvili is a huge blow IMO.

What are the bookies saying?

One of my favourite words is overrated as some of you might have noticed. I certainly think Ngenwya is just that. Same with Traille.

Biarritz's biggest player is Harinorduquy but he has to come up against a very strong Saracens backrow.

beshocked wrote:Morgannwg ok I will happily admit I don't know much about the so called star studded Biarritz team bar Balshaw,Nwengya,Traille,Harinorduquy,Barcella,Marconnet and Thion.

I think they are good but other than them?

4 in the pack I have heard of. Plus I think they have another French international in the backrow.

If you could give me some more information on the Biarritz players I know little about I would appreciate it.

E.g. their half backs?

No Yachvili is a huge blow IMO.

What are the bookies saying?

One of my favourite words is overrated as some of you might have noticed. I certainly think Ngenwya is just that. Same with Traille.

Biarritz's biggest player is Harinorduquy but he has to come up against a very strong Saracens backrow.

Beshocked pal, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. You've listed 7 internationals there plus an injured one in Yachvili. So 8 in any team is pretty 'star-studded' but you left out Benoît Baby, Marcelo Bosch of Argentina and Erik Lund (Norweigan international and baa-baa's representative). Lakafia is from Toulouse I think. I'm not sure if he is an international but he's certainly capable and he's a big ball carrier. Their outside half Peyrelongue is a 10 year veteran of the club. You have a point about Ngenwya, he's simply just a finisher. But you wouldn't take him for granted.

You know what the bookies are saying. The bookies have Saracens down to win this pool. The bookies base their predictions on League position and ranking.

Fair enough Morgannwg. Also there's a lot more to players than just a name.

An international for Norway?

Who is Marcelo Bosch?

All Erik Lund is famous for is being the brother of a player who has been off the England radar for a long long time!

Have heard of Benoit Baby. Quality name.

Yes but 8 doesn't make 15.

Wouldn't call some of them stars though!

Don't think the bookies base predictions on ERC rankings! If they did we would be predicted to be 3rd in the pool.

It's the frontrow of Biarritz which will be the toughest battle.

I am confident our wingers can swat away Balshaw and Ngenwya.

Erik Lund is a pretty handy second row. I wouldn't say he's ever been famous but was certainly noticed when playing for the Barbarians against Wales, hence Biarrtiz picking him up.

Marcelo Bosch played for Argentina during the world cup beshocked. They were in your group too.

Baby was favoured for a period during mad Marc's reign. I think he's a centre or full-back, but has also played outside half for France. He is known for having a massive boot.

They may not be as star-studded as Toulouse but those Internationals still make them a quality unit and very tough to beat.

Not tough to beat so far this season.

Evidently didn't do much as I didnt notice him.

I think our team is just as well known though. With players like Matt Stevens,Charlie Hodgson,David Strettle,Kelly Brown,Schalk Brits,John Smit,Jacques Burger and Steve Borthwick etc.

Yeah! the amount of people who think the Scarlets will win on Friday is up to 6!

WOO

that's the same amount as reckon London irish will win as well priest, I'm not holding my breath for either of us!!!

Surprised 14 people think Quins will beat Gloucester.

Ozzy London Irish are London Irish!

Yeah, we always have a chance, but the sensible money has to be on the Blues this week.

I know it's grim - though I'm suprised more people don't think the L Irish won't beat the Blues (though my money'd on the Blues to win), as I think it will be a close game.

I just desperately want the Scarlets to win enough games so that they're a higher seed next year with an easier group where they'd be more likely to qualify.

I hold no hope for us maintaining our second seed status next season. We lose the 2007/08 points we gained after this year, and we reached the semi final that year, so unless we do the same this time, we will lose points, and given that we were the lowest ranked team in tier 2, I suspect it will be tier 3 for us if we qualify next season.

Irish beating Blues and Scarlets beating Northampton, stranger things have happened. The first round was highly competitive at all corners of Europe and it made for great viewing for everyone. I just hope round 2 can be as entertaining.

Lets have a look at the vote midway...! Votes not odds are included...

Pool 1

Northampton v Scarlets Fri 20:00 - Saints big favourites 36-5
Castres v Munster Sat 15:40 - A little closer Munster Favourites at 25-15

Pool 2

Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Fri 20:00 - Blues Favs at 36-6
Edinburgh v Racing Metro, Fri 20:00 - bit closer favouring Edinburgh 27- 15

Pool 3

Bath v Montpellier, Sun 15:00 - Bath Favs at 23 - 12
Leinster v Glasgow, Sun 12:45 - Glasgow hardly given a hope in hell 40 - 7

Pool 4
Leicester v Ulster, Sat 18:00 - Welford roads reputation for the home side sees Leicester clear favs with a vote of 31 - 9
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Fri 20:00 - CA clear favs 36 - 1

Pool 5

Treviso v Ospreys, Sat 13:30 - Ospreys clear favs to increase their unbeaten run over Treviso 35 - 5
Biarritz v Saracens, Sat 13:30 - Despite Biarritz understated form they are apparently favourites to beat Saracens 23 votes to 16

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse, Sat 18:00 - Connacht are not a bad side as Quins can attest to but the vote goes heavily in Toulouse's favour 31 - 6
Gloucester v Harlequins, Sat 15:40 - Home advantage against co-patriot league leading team here 25 votes to 14

I'm hope the Welsh teams can do as well as the 1st round - but I'm not expecting too much.

If the Scarlets can be competitive then I'll be happy.

I have a feeling that one of the Italian sides or new boys Connacht and Montpellier could pull of a surprising victory. They have a poor reputation but all have played some very good rugby this year and last.

I agree that all 4 (or at least the 3 Italian/Irish sides as I don't watch much French rugby) have been doing well, but looking at the sides they are playing I think realistically it's only Montpellier who have a realisitic chance this round.

Ulster could be a surprise too, they look great some games, dire others... But they will go to Welford road with hopes of a big victory to stand them in a great place in their group. Tigers have been off colour this year.

beshocked wrote:thebandwagonsociety your predictions are really strange in my opinion.

You seem to think that the team bottom of the Top 14 will beat the English champions who have won 11 away in a row yet believe that Ulster will beat Leicester and Montpellier will beat Bath?

You're a mad man in my opinion!

Not the worst thing I have been called on here. Just my opinion all the same. Biarritz are a team that up themselves for HCup, they have more pride playing for the Basque region on the european stage. They are horrific away from home but great at home. They also were without Yachvilli and HarryOrdinary for the RWC stint of time and as a team they really rely heavily on those two key players.

I also haven't been impressed by Leicester at home in the Jeff this year. In the past Welford road was a guaranteed 4 points to Tigers and probable 5 points. Just don't see the same Tigers as usual this year. Ulster are a team on the up, and I just feel there is an upset in them this weekend.

On Bath losing, does anyone think their performance against Glasgow last weekend makes them favourites against a french side that took the european champions all the way to the final kick of the game as home win. The french don't travel when they are out of a comp, but the french sides (outside of Bourgoin) do take pride in their first venture into HC rugby and Galthie is a coach that would target a good HC run for his own CV.

Mad, twisted logic but still just my opinion.

thebandwagonsociety it's your opinion. That's fair enough.

Yachvili is injured... I can understand why you think Biarritz will win but personally can't see how they have a higher chance of winning than Leicester and Bath.

Leicester lost 21 players during the world cup because of call ups and injuries. They have to bounce back eventually.

Bath have Donald. Plus they have home advantage. Montpellier should have won at home. Also they do not a proven track record.

I am amazed 14 people tink Quins will win.

You crazy fools! I'd love it if we did, and will be expecting it cometh the hour, but at the moment all I can see is our glorious streak ending in that manky shed.

Really seems like the weight of expectation is building on Quins and we do best when no one is expecting us to win. A good loss and we'll be straight back on it again.

bandwagonsociety, I fancy your team to do another double over Bath. Not quite sure as to why Bath are rated to do well in this years H-Cup.

The votes should have closed today...

So 606V2 pundits think that the following will happen.

A Total of 506 Votes this week. Thats 21 Contributions with at least one person voting for too many teams...! (Cyril ..???)

The number in []'s is the amount of votes that team received.


Pool 1

Northampton Saints [ 37 ] to beat Scarlets [ 6 ]

Munster [ 26 ] to beat Castres [ 16 ]


Pool 2

Cardiff Blues [ 37 ] to beat London Irish [ 8 ]

Edinburgh [ 27 ] to beat Racing Métro [ 15 ]


Pool 3

Bath [ 24 ] to beat Montpellier [ 12 ]

Leinster [ 42 ] to beat Glasgow Warriors [ 7 ]


Pool 4
Leicester Tigers [ 34 ] to beat Ulster [ 9 ]

Clermont [ 38 ] to beat Aironi [ 3 ]


Pool 5

Ospreys [ 36 ] to beat Treviso Benetton [ 7 ]

Biarritz [ 23 ] to beat Saracens [ 18 ]


Pool 6

Toulouse [ 33 ] to beat Connacht [ 6 ]

Gloucester [ 27 ] to beat Harlequins [ 15 ]

37 people wrong about the scarlets

But 27 believed in the gunners... Bet they couldnt have predicted that immense game though... Wow...!

Well played Irish, unlucky to have young Shingler sent off but don't we all know about that being the current vogue with French refs.

Clermont proving to be a better team than airing by fifty points.

I must admit that I was one of those wrong voters about the Scarlets - so glad that I'm wrong! Awesome performance!!!

Maes I'd say Shingler will be lucky not to be given a longer ban that was a far far worse tackle than Warbs, or many I have seen recently

Shingles is not a dirty player he has a much cleaner record than many of his teammates, one serving his fifth ban in twelve months.

So Sunday morning and 606 v2 has again called plenty of scores incorrectly.

true he's not a dirty player at least when I've seen him - but that tackle was very bad

Smirnoffpriest wrote:true he's not a dirty player at least when I've seen him - but that tackle was very bad

This the thing isn't it, that tackle was actually very good, but also illegal. Those tackles have to be illegal for the good of the game at lower levels.

That tackle in my opinion is far less deserving of a red card than when, as many players do, a defender pulls a nan down from being lifted in the line out.

IRB need to work out their tackle laws ASAP, what they have at the moment doesn't work and is not refaced consistently because of that.

maestegmafia wrote:37 people wrong about the scarlets

I was one of the 37. The strength of the Scarlets defence impressed me most, followed by their ruthlessness in punishing Saints mistakes.

But 27 believed in the gunners... Bet they couldnt have predicted that immense game though... Wow...!

I was one of the 27, though how they came back to win that who knows. In other sports corruption and betting would be suggested. (Joke)

Well played Irish, unlucky to have young Shingler sent off but don't we all know about that being the current vogue with French refs.

Clermont proving to be a better team than airing by fifty points.

[/quote] Really, you think he was unlucky? That was a clearcut red card and as he drove the player into the ground could be looking at a long ban.

LT I Didn't think that tackle was deliberate. Steven Shingler is a well behaved and clean player.

What he did was stupid, but I think it was just poor tackling technique not aiming to hurt or injure Hewitt.

An incident non-compatible with Chris Ashton on George North in Fridays other match. That was intent.