Tigers V Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Is it too early in the week to start this thread?

Don't care.

My local rugby calendar is clear for the day and I have two tickets for this beauty! The wife and I will be at Welford Road (she likes a bit of Toby) to cheer on the boys and looking forward to a great day.

Bring on the Irish Invasion!

TIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSS!

Metal Tiger wrote:

roddersm wrote:Oh dear I hope he doesn't buy the dummy again if young Spence comes on, that would be embarrassing in front of your home crowd .....

Your not wrong Roddersm, he is known for breaking the line early looking for the big hit, sometimes he gets it wrong, but most of the time he gets it, oh, so very, very right! BOOM!

Actually, let's just see if the rumour is confirmed first, and he is playing. Otherwise this is a non argument.

Only a bit off banter Metal Tiger

I hope he is playing actually, I love watching Tuilagi and would love to see how Cave goes against him. He is the incumbant England 13 so he's the kind of player Cave needs to get the better off to push his Irish credentials. He did reasonbly well against Rougerie last week and Tuilagi would be another big test.

Roddersm, Took it as nothing else but banter

I would be far happier if BOTH teams were at full strength with 1-23 first choice picks. Then we would have an absolute hum-dinger of a game on our hands! I'm always sad when Tigers lose but generally I can accept when we are beaten by a better side humbly.

Unlike when we were cheated off the park by those prawn munching Dubliners!!

Metal Tiger wrote:
Unlike when we were cheated off the park by those prawn munching Dubliners!!

coal eating Welshmen

biltong munching Londoners

picnic ruining Wycombeites

Looking at last weeks game , a couple of season's ago we would have rolled over and given up (Ulster). We knuckled down and took it back, this is a testement to how far we have come from 2 seasons ago. I don't see why we can't win at Welford Road, we have the players and now the mental strength.

"Unlike when we were cheated off the park by those prawn munching Dubliners!! "

Just wondered, is this because of the Prawn sandwich brigade, or Dublin bay prawns?

However I like it, Ladyboys has fallen out of favour, Prawn muching Dubs works for me.

Prawn munching Dubs
Turnip munching munster people.
Ulster Fry Loving Ulstermen,
and
oyster eating Galweigians

Kingshu,

It's a bit of both... but it works

What is an 'Ulster Fry'?

roddersm wrote:

Metal Tiger wrote:
My sources are telling me that there's going to be a few surprises for Ulster. It looks like Manu will be back... BOOM!

Oh dear I hope he doesn't buy the dummy again if young Spence comes on, that would be embarrassing in front of your home crowd .....

Stand I agree I think a LBP probably won't be enough, we have to go for the win.

SUFTUM!!

Looks like this is a real possibility as Wallace might not make the match.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/15725881.stm

If he doesnt make it will be spence and cave in the centres.

Metal Tiger wrote:Kingshu,

It's a bit of both... but it works

What is an 'Ulster Fry'?

What I tought it was famous, it's only th ebiggest and best fry in the world,

An Ulster Fry is a dish similar to the Irish breakfast and is popular throughout Ulster.

A traditional Ulster Fry consists of bacon, eggs, sausages, white pudding, black pudding, fried tomato, the farl of soda bread, potato bread, mushrooms and maybe a fried pancake.
The Ulster Fry is often served for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Yum

King I could murder an Ulster fry right now!

I guess I'll have to wait and settle for one before the Leicester game!

Perfect pre-drinking meal!

Metal Tiger wrote:What is an 'Ulster Fry'?

As others have said we have a chance = I would say this is a 70/30 game in Leicesters favour.

It has to be remembered Ulster are missing 3, maybe 4, top players - Payne, Pienaer, Afoa and maybe Wallace. That is a huge lose to us and means Leicester are not the only under strength side in this match.

We need Marshall, Darcy etc matching their performances last week.

Geoff whats the deal with Wallace? Will Spence slot in at 12 if he is out?

If so, personally I think that will strengthen us but hey ho what do I know.

Any update on Ferris?

Kingshu & roddersm.

I suspected that it was a heart attack on a plate but thought I'd better ask first. I love white pudding by the way, you just don't see it that much over here.

I think I'll have one too!

roddersm wrote:Geoff whats the deal with Wallace? Will Spence slot in at 12 if he is out?

If so, personally I think that will strengthen us but hey ho what do I know.

Any update on Ferris?

Apparently Ferris will be fit to play, according to the same article on Wallace.

Ferris is fine, Paddy very doubtful

Jackson has not been selected for the Ravens so it looks like Spence in and Jackson on the bench.

I thought Paddy was outstanding last week but Spence will give us more in defence.

Flip forgot Paddy was back up fly half too .

If Spence is in I'm looking forward to see how he and Cave match up to the tigers midfield.

I hope Tuilagi makes it, although maybe he'll feign injury if he hears Spence might be playing....

I think you need to rewatch the Lions tour again. Ferris was in outstanding form, maybe the best of his career at that point, until he got injured. Croft played very well but Ferris almost certainly would have been involved in the test team.

I've got the dvd. Ferris played well but he didn't offer the off the shoulder attacking threat croft did. the hard ground suited croft's speed as well.

If Spence is in I'm looking forward to see how he and Cave match up to the tigers midfield. I hope Tuilagi makes it, although maybe he'll feign injury if he hears Spence might be playing....

manu won't be fit. He isn't supposed to be back for another three weeks. Billy is also unlikely. Tigers midfield is likely to be forsyth and smith. Spence and cave should better those two if the have any international inspirations.

Geoff!!! Where the duck have you been?!?

I'm really worried if we have to draft Spence in for Wallace- but better it be for an away game. Should it be a case of kicking well and defending well, Spence will do a job but there's no way he can replace Wallaces rugby brain and flair at 12. He has his own attributes of course but he's not a 12.

Notch wrote:I'm really worried if we have to draft Spence in for Wallace- but better it be for an away game. Should it be a case of kicking well and defending well, Spence will do a job but there's no way he can replace Wallaces rugby brain and flair at 12. He has his own attributes of course but he's not a 12.

Booooo

Notch wrote:I'm really worried if we have to draft Spence in for Wallace- but better it be for an away game. Should it be a case of kicking well and defending well, Spence will do a job but there's no way he can replace Wallaces rugby brain and flair at 12. He has his own attributes of course but he's not a 12.

I don't think I have seen much of Spence's kicking game!

Just a fleeting visit Geoff?

UAFC saying Paddy is out until the new year with a broken hand. Really big blow for this weekend but hopefully we can give Spence some front foot ball and reap the dividends.

Just to stimulate debate is there a case for

12. Cave
13. Spence

??

Cave has the better hands. Spence ain't a 12. I'm sorry rodders he just ain't. Worth a try in my opinion.

Well Stand there probably is a case for that but I genuinely believe Spence at 12 and Cave at 13 is a very good combination. I do think they could interchange though throughout the game though.

Cave is playing so well at 13 I'd like to see him stay there to enhance his international prospects and Spence has played some stormers at 12.

Sorry to hear about Paddy though.

Spence has had some stinkers as well.

Glass half full Willy!

Look guys the center positions aren't that different, Spence doesn't change from a potential Irish international to a terrible player by moving from 13 to 12. Spence is slightly bigger and Cave slightly faster so imo it makes sense for Cave to play mostly outside.

Look at Gibbs\Gusgott, Nonu\Smith, Roberts\BOD. Spence and Cave is a very balanced combo imo. Two clever strike runners who can both break and offload, it's very hard to defend against. Spence obvously has to do a bit more of the donkey work on the inside but for me it works well.

Leicester are the perfect team for Spence to come in at 12. Ulster will benefit from his physicality there in this game.

Rodders sorry but there isn't a chance Cave is faster than Spence. Cave hasn't got that much pace, but is a better distributor and has a better brain (suited for 12). Spence is a much more direct runner, who is defensively very good, is very fast and very strong. He reminds me of a Fourie type centre.

The centre partnerships you mention show you need to have a direct runner and a smart player. Nonu however is much more of a distributor nowadays than a crash ball centre, and he is also good at kicking and defence. Preferably I like a good distributing/kicking/brainy type of 12 who can play alongside a direct running, offloading 13.

It does not matter so much if 12 or 13 is the crash/brains, but Spence and his skills are much better suited to 13. Cave I think is a 13 also but would do better at 12 than Spence, so it would be smarter to play him there.

Rory I haven't seen their 60m sprint times so I will bow to your superior knowledge but Cave has a better awareness of space and runs better lines imo.

The inside centre generally has to work in a tighter space and make more tackles which is why Spence, who is the more physical player is better on the inside. That frees up space for Cave to exploit outside.

I don't think there is a right or wrong on this, it comes down to how you feel the game should be played.

For me the midfield is a about power more than ever before and the standout midfields around are the likes of Roberts, Nonu, SBW etc. who can consistantly break the gainline and lay a platform for their team.

Please don't use the words 'crash ball centre', that is absolutely not what I am talking about. Kevin Maggs was a crash ball centre, Nonu,SBW and Roberts aren't and Spence isn't either.

Should be back for good.

I am not surprised Paddy's arm has break it looked horrible after the match.
Fair play to him, if foolish, to play through it to the end.

Spence will be 12 - McGlock isn't going to change things unnecessarily at this late stage.

Geoff whats you opinion on the centre options with Paddy out?

How do you feel Spence has done at 12? What about Caves excellent form? Do you think either or both are in with a shout with Ireland in the new year?

Paddy confirmed out for 6-8 weeks. Big blow.

Come on ulster. I think they can win this one. A losing bp is a must or they can almost forget about qualifying as the won't win away to Clermont.

Suftum!!!

Cave can only do his best weak in weak out. He has problems with the physicality of the game and is not the fastest 13 but he he is, by some distance the most intelligent 13 (BOD excepted) in Ireland in terns of hands, positioning and all round reading of the game.

He out performed McFadden, Barner and Griffin at the weekend (I watched all 4 games) - he cant do more than that. I honestly think he deserves a start for Ireland - I expect Earls will start the 6N though.

For that reason I would leave him at 13 - lets not mess him about playing him at 12. I understand the reservations of playing Spence at 12 but away from home I would definitely play Cave 13, Spence 12. In truth if Luke Marshall had been available I would have played him at 12.

Danielli retains his spot. Deccie F in for Afoa. D'Arcy very unfortunate to lose out.

I thought he would do that (retain Danielli) - mistake in my view.

At least the idea of Court at TH and McAllister at LH hasn't happened - that would have been a terrible decision .

Fitzpatrick has to play - he is, comfortably, the best TH available. He may not offer much around the park but we must have a stable scrum.

Got to feel for D'arcy. Danielli has been poor in his last two games for Ulster.

I suppose his experience got him the nod and Welford road will be pretty pretty tough.

Even if we switched Danielli and Gilroy that would be an improvement I think as Danielli's running lines are awful.

I'd say we'll see D'arcy come on even earlier this week. maybe they perfer his running when the defences are beginging to tire, he could make bigger breaks then!

I'm a fan of D'arcy by the way, always liked his attacking mindset. A good attacking fullback. Even when Payne is back I see him being an impact sub.

I like the way he could be used to come on and attack attack attack, if we're chasing a game. Didn't think he had a future at Ulster with Payne's signing but now I do.

geoff998rugby wrote:Cave can only do his best weak in weak out. He has problems with the physicality of the game and is not the fastest 13 but he he is, by some distance the most intelligent 13 (BOD excepted) in Ireland in terns of hands, positioning and all round reading of the game.

He out performed McFadden, Barner and Griffin at the weekend (I watched all 4 games) - he cant do more than that. I honestly think he deserves a start for Ireland - I expect Earls will start the 6N though.

For that reason I would leave him at 13 - lets not mess him about playing him at 12. I understand the reservations of playing Spence at 12 but away from home I would definitely play Cave 13, Spence 12. In truth if Luke Marshall had been available I would have played him at 12.

Agree with all aspects of this.

Red_Stag you are clearly a wise person for one so young

Or just a Yes-Man

I was just playing devils advocate by suggesting Cave @ 12 by the way. I do think Spence is a 13 mind you and i agree with geoff that had Marshall been fit i would have played him. (McLaughlin doesnt see it yet though).

Only disappointing thing in my view is Danielli retained for D'arcy but as Kings has said maybe the idea is for him to have a significant impact and up the pace of our attacks in the 2nd half.

Anyway cant wait for this one to start. Come on Ulster!

Paddy just tweeted this picture.

FYI not for the squeamish.

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/paddywallace12/status/137497883040686080

Team as expected with the injuies and absentees, thought D'arcy should be at fullback though Danielli is not comfortable there and dorsnt have the gas anymore. However at least 1F is ready to rumble again what a game its going to be

What I think is intresting is;
Treviso to win at home to Ospreys is 3-1
Connacht to win at home against Toulose 4-1
Ulster to win away against Tigers 5-1

In that context I'd say Ulster are a good bet.

OK Connacht and Treviso are at home, but in my opionion Ulster have a better chance of winning this weekend than Connacht, and maybe about same chance as Treviso, but have much higher odds. So therefore if you were going to put money on one of 3 events you think have an equal chance of happening, you may as well pick to one with the best return.

By the way i'm not putting money on any off them. well maybe £2.

also since I don't think anyone has added them
Leicester: 15 Geordan Murphy, 14 Horacio Agulla, 13 Matt Smith, 12 Andy Forsyth, 11 Alesana Tuilagi, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Sam Harrison, 8 Thomas Waldrom, 7 Jules Salvi, 6 Tom Croft, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Louis Deacon, 3 Dan Cole, 2 George Chuter, 1 Marcos Ayerza.
Replacements: 16 Rob Hawkins, 17 Boris Stankovich, 18 Martin Castrogiovanni, 19 George Skivington, 20 Steve Mafi, 21 Ben Youngs, 22 Jeremy Staunton, 23 Niall Morris.

Ulster: 15 Simon Danielli, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Darren Cave, 12 Nevin Spence, 11 Craig Gilroy, 10 Ian Humphreys, 9 Paul Marshall, 8 Pedrie Wannenburg, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Stephen Ferris, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Johann Muller, 3 Declan Fitzpatrick, 2 Rory Best, 1 Tom Court.
Replacements: 16 Nigel Brady, 17 Paddy McAllister, 18 Adam Macklin, 19 Lewis Stevenson, 20 Willie Faloon, 21 Ian Porter, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Adam D'Arcy.

Honestly, looking at the teams I think Ulster should win this. Man for man, Ulster take the lead imo. I guess it depends on the pitch however.

I wouldn't be so bold as Rory but its as strong an Ulster side as we have available.

If we are to win at Welford rd NOW is the time!

SUFTUM!!!

Oh yeah still thinking of heading to the taphouse to watch this if anyone else is around?

If we are going to beat leicester to my mind it will have to be done in the backs.