PGA Tour: Presidents Cup / Q-Schools etc: Notes from the Ballwasher

1).For the first time since 2003 the American Prsidents Cup Team will have to use their passports and there is every prospect of an exciting "Cup" this week at Royal Melbourne, hopefully with a little touch of needle and a partisan crowd. Presidents Cups have often resembled exhibitions and that's exactly what we don't want this week.

2).Both teams must take some comfort from last week's tournaments in Japan, Singapore and Sydney with good results from Woods, Watney and Watson, plus Baddeley, Day, Ogilvy, Scott, Ishikawa and Schwartzel. Mahan and Stricker have declared themselves fit and rarin' to go, so the stage is set for a thriller.

3).Who's going to win? On paper you'd have to go with Team USA especially bolstered by Woods' good form at The Lakes. The International Team pay the price for a qualifying system that rewards players for 2010 form even if they stunk the joint up these past few months - Exhibit "A" being Goosen who has fallen from the World's Top 20 just three months ago, now languishing with team-mates Allenby and Els outside the Top 50, Baddeley, Ishikawa and Yang not much better in the 40's. In contrast, only Furyk and Woods of the Americans lie outside the Top 22.

4).But the Americans have ridden homefield advantage to straightforward wins while coming up short in their only two journeys abroad: 1998's thumping in Australia and 2003's twilight tie in South Africa. This is a very big deal for Greg Norman, presumably much more so than for Couples, and his Team is as Melbourne-centric as he could get. In 1998, Appleby, Elkington, Norman and Parry finished 10 - 1 - 3 in their matches on their way to a resounding win and if Shark's homeboys don't do something similar, I don't see Goosen, Els and Ishikawa (the only three Internationals with a winning PC record) rescuing them.

5).Most of us let our heart rule our head when it comes to Team events and I'm expecting the poor recent form of Furyk, Kuchar, Mickelson and Toms, plus the inexperience of some American rookies to be beaten to the post by Greg Norman's ability to galvanize his Team. He'll need Ogilvy and Scott to lead from the front and better form than they've shown previously from senior players like Allenby, Choi and Els. But in Baddeley, Ishikawa and K-t Kim, Shark may have the three best putters in the event, hopefully trump cards.

6).What of Woods? He looked good at The Lakes; even when he was piling up bogeys on Saturday, his form wasn't as bad as his score. Arguably only ring-rust prevented him from winning the tournament and I expect him to justify his selection this week - apart from anything else, Couples needs Tiger's experience. I agree with selecting Woods over Keegan Bradley, just not announcing it months in advance. Whatever happens this week, expect Tiger to reassert himself at his Chevron benefit and then embark on a Masters-oriented schedule early next year, hoipefully adding an event (Riviera?) to his normal schedule.

7).Whatever the golfers do in the coming week, expect the real star of the show to be Royal Melbourne's "composite" course. The course will play relatively short (about 7,000 yards), but positioning of the tee shot is crucial to being able to shoot at the pin (very Harbour Town in that regard), and the famous bunkering will get lots of action. Geoff Ogilvy's perceptive comments about golf and golfcourses belie his apparently laid-back, nonchalant on-course demeanour, and he once defined a great course design and set-up as one which the very best players found "relatively easy" while lesser players "found it really difficult" (his description of Southern Hills at the 2007 PGA).
When he talks about Royal Melbourne in GolfWorld, "I must have played the course thousands of times, but I can't wait to get back. It really is a special place.", you get the impression he hopes to navigate it successfully while others with less familiarity of its nuances find it very tricky.

8).Just a word or two about John Daly. Yes, he behaved like an idiot in Sydney last week and he seems to have worn out his invariably warm Australian welcome. But, really, what did the Aussies expect; he's done it before and, given the chance, he'll doubtless do it again. Fortunately Tour comedian Jarrod Lyle had the last word by presenting Daly with a box of golfballs before the start of their round at a Monday Melbourne Pro-Am.

9).John Daly should be at Stage 2 PGA Tour Q-School this week with fellow Major Champions Duval, Beem, Janzen, Micheel and Hamilton. Not to mention erstwhile "Cuppers" Austin, Begay, Maggert, Weekley, Franco, Hensby and Lonard. Garcia-Heredia, Gronberg, Hafthorsson, Johnson, Owen and Fergal Rafferty are among the Europeans competing, while other surprising entries include Nathan Green and wonderkids of recent times Lovemark and Michael Sim. Barry Lane and Mark Mouland contest Champions Tour Final Stage Q-School.

10).Happy 30th Birthday today to Lorena Ochoa. And hearty congratulations to Catriona Matthew for winning last week's Lorena Ochoa Invitational in Guadalajara.

PS: Would the Moderators please remove the previous two weeks' Ballwashers Notes from the Stickies? Thanks.

Kwini, from your perspective as a Brit in America what's the American take on The President's Cup? Is it a big thing and how does it compare to the Ryder Cup in terms of coverage and size/importance.

s_r,
Seems like there's more interest this year than previously; Team USA being built up as the underdog by the Tour's mouthpiece, pgatour.com, some especially ignorant nonsense being written by top journalists who should know better.

Fact is, the Pres Cup really needs an International win!

But the Pres Cup doesn't match up to the Ryder Cup in players' minds or in media attention, Fred Couples as Captain probably being as big a manifestation of that as any. Lots of media speculation also that Tiger was only chosen for his box-office value; though remember, the Ryder Cup Captain has four "picks" and doubtless Tiger would have been chosen with one of those in an RC year.

Kwin - Yet another fine write up. Thanks for your efforts. A few thoughts ...

I think the International teams wins this thing. Couples may be a great guy to play golf with (this from someone I know who played with him in a member-guest), but I'm not sure he's an inspiring team leader (think Crenshaw, even though you may cringe at his "golly-gee" delivery). Neither team chock-full of hot golfers at the moment, so I give the nod to the home field boys.

Speaking of home field, I can't wait to see this course on TV. People I know who have played it rave about the place (in contrast to the polarizing Medinah).
When Geoff Ogilvy discusses golf architecture I listen. He's passionate, well informed and his interest in RM alone may be what he needs to post some winning matches.

Kwini - not often the course is the star but it is this week. A proper folders course as opposed to so many bombers playgrounds. Perfect course for this type of event, as Paris will be for the RC.

Cheers Shotrock,

pgatour.com is hinting that the USA foursomes on Thursday will include a Joe LaCava pairing of Woods and Johnson! Given that Dustin achieved the unique distinction of leading the Deutsche Bank tournament in both driving distance AND accuracy (first time that's been done, but he still didn't win!), that's not such a daft idea as it might sound.

I meant to add a note about Tim Clark, who'll be Vice Captaining along with Frank Nobilo. I'd imagine Shark rues the day when Timmy's elbow was injured; just as Faldo missed Luke Donald's steadiness at Valhalla, this year's Internationals will surely miss having Tim Clark in the Team.


Agree with that puligny; must admit I find the concept of playing a "composite" course quite difficult to grasp. I know it happens a lot more than we might think, but wonder if it messes at all with the home advantage? Sounds as if the greens will be lightning quick; will anyone putt their ball into a bunker?.

Kwini nice write up (mainly because you said positive things about Tiger) if you keep this up I would rate you very highly.

I am very excited about this Presidents cup! Any idea on the tee times?

Kwini - the composite at RM is always used for competitions so won't be a surprise to the home birds, or frankly anyone who has been there.
The fact of the composite layout is one of the causes of (friendly) rivalry with Kingston Heath. As it was put to me, "they need 36 holes to find 18 as good as ours!"
Would love to see a putt rolled into a bunker, and then for the ghost of the good Doctor Mc to keep it in there for a couple of blows!!

Blimey Keizo, Any more of that treacle and you'll get me drummed out of 606.
I can't find exactly when the action starts, tee-times due to be announced at, or just following, the Opening Ceremony. Would expect the action to start at about 8.00 a.m. Melbourne time so that Thursday, Friday, first series on Saturday, and Sunday's action can be shown at a reasonable time in the States.

puligny,
Agreed, but it also seems they change the "composition" for different events, depending on expected crowds and to try to avoid spectator log-jams! My understanding is that there's a lot of intense rivalry in Australia between rival clubs and rival Associations, Melbourne vs Sydney for instance!

Kwini - for Sydney, Melbourne probably read Lancs Yorks! Lot of rivalry between Kingston Heath and Royal Melbourne but from my experience less so with other Sandbelt courses. Didn't get to play RM last time we were there but did manage to walk quite a bit of it. We were told it doesn't have it's own water which in that part of the world has been crucial over the past few years, and at the time it showed. Aussies being Aussies it will be fantastic for PC!!
Sandbelt courses are like the very best of Surrey with reliable weather.
Interested you say they change the composition - I had not heard that before, and believed it was a pretty much done deal as to which holes featured?

Kwini - their website defines the composite course as 12 from West and 6 from East, used since 1959. Maybe they alter the routing for crowd control? Hey ho it'll be great!

Kwini My take on team Oz/Asia, will be that they'll make up for lack a of world table status, by being more of a team. I see them scrapping for each other more than the US boys. There may even be a bit of an undercurrent within the yank ranks, due to the selection of Woods etc ??

Hi kwini,

Looking forward to this event (the ale has been ordered and delivered) even though there is very little mention of it from my golfing buddies, the local papers or even the golf shop. Some don't even know where, why or when it's being held.

You're correct in stating that the International side needs to take the Cup in only to create some interest. One would think that the Americans would get wound up and show more concern if they take a blow to the chin... But sadly so far, nobody here really cares what happens in Aussieland.

Love shorter course decision. Should make every match that much tighter with length off the tees not as critical. Certainly the official pinsetters have a few tricks up their sleeve for certain holes on certain days. Hopefully they won't rely too much on the speed factor of the greens to support their strategy.

Read where South America, Korea and China are lobbying to host the 2015 Presidents Cup. Any thoughts on which location might serve the game best?

Doc,
You may be right about the International Team but I seriously doubt any of the US Team gives a monkey's about the choice of Tiger - he'll be as welcome as he usually is, perhaps more as there seems to be an affinity with more players on the Team.
Key for The Internationals will be to make a fast start, get Freddie's head spinning, make the US try to play "catch up".

Hi venice,
Glad you've got the brewskis chilling; agree, you have to really work to unearth much in the press about the PC. Definitely feel the Golf community is up for it, though, here anyway!
Finchem talked a couple of weeks ago about Korea as a likely 2015 venue, then started to say South America might be suitable as a sort of pre-Olympic foreplay. So he's presumably conducting an unofficial bidding war.

kwini

Do you have any idea how much the players get paid for playing in the pres cup?

Hi Mac,
My understanding up to now is that US Team members in both the Ryder and Presidents Cups receive a sum of money, $150K apiece in 2007 which is the last year I've seen details for, to be donated to a charity of their choice in their name, this being the essence of the compromise reached after Duval, O'Meara/Woods in the late 90's complained about lack of remuneration.
As the PC is PGA Tour sponsored, International Team have the same arrangement.

I don't know if the European Tour has got into compensating European Ryder Cup Team Members.

Wonder if this happened to Faldo also?
I bet it never happened to Monty, Azinger or Pavin.
Couples watched Simpson swing a golf club live for the first time on Monday.
Norman watched K-t Kim swing a club for the first time Monday also.

Does this indicate that the PC is more show than bruins sporting event? The course is the star!!!!!

Don't know where bruins came from there - thought I typed genuine!!!!

We like the Bruins!
Difficult to believe isn't it? Makes one wonder if he ever saw Keegan Bradley play? Chances are, No! Plus Fred's maintained a "He can call me, I'm not calling him" attitude with Keegs during the will he, won't he Stricker saga.

In so far as I know anything about I like the Bruins, but have never consciously typed it! It's a miracle get your money on Bruins!

McLaren wrote:kwini

Do you have any idea how much the players get paid for playing in the pres cup?

Isn't it a disgrace that they get paid at all? It should be an honour to represent your country. Same with appearance money in normal competitions.

s_r,
Please see my response to Mac; I don't think they do get paid, despite Iain Carter's rather curious blog suggesting/stating they do.
If there is payment, it is brand new for 2011.

Even if a donation is made to charity by proxy, I still don't think it's a reason to guarantee their support.
If I was a pro on their sort of money, I'd do it for nothing and donate to charity out of my own pocket. Or at least match what was paid on my behalf.

To be fair, a lot of these guys do a tremendous amount for various charities and causes. Millions, perhaps even gazillions, and good for them if they can leverage some more.
Point is, the money doesn't go in the pros' pockets.

Surely none of them would actually not play unless a charitable donation was made though?

There was talk of that in the late nineties, prior to Valderrama I think. One reason why O'Meara will never be a Ryder Cup captain, nor Duval.
But this compromise was reached and I would say it's very fair.

I was wondering whether certain players were still of that opinion Kwini?

Surely they would be told to F Off in such circumstances?

Certainly not as far as I know; no sign of anyone not trying to make the Team, and no rumblings of discontent heard on the rumour mill.
It might also be that Team members reap sponsorship dollars, plus they qualify automatically for the following year's Bridgestone with a $36K pay cheque for finishing last.

Q-Schools update.

Not going to bother to post updates on PGA Tour Q-School until two rounds are in the book.

But the Final stage of Champo Tour's Q-School is underway with Round 1 in the books.
Players of possible interest:
1st: Mike Harwood
T2; Hallberg
T2; Clearwater
T6: Barry Lane
T22: US Open Champ Steve Jones
T22: Damon Green (Zach Johnson's caddie)
T31: Mark Mouland
T52: Miguel Angel Martin
T52: Clampett
T52: Tim Simpson
T52: Peter Fowler

Let the games begin: Thursdays Foursomes:
Watson and Simpson vs Els and Ishikawa
Haas and Watney vs Ogilvy and Schwartzel
Kuchar and Johnson vs Badds and Day
Mickelson and Furyk vs Goosen and Allenby
Mahan and Toms vs Kim and Yang
Woods and Stricker vs Scott and Choi

Perhaps a bit contrived, but I'll be watching! Surprised to see Badds and Day playing together . . . . .

How about some light-hearted banter:

Would like to know the reasoning behind each of the pairings. For instance: Els and Ishikawa. Is this team based on how each of their games compliment each other or is it that Ernie can provide the experience while Ryo can instill energy?

I've grown tired of the Woods / Stricker pairing. Are they truly better when playing together? Would be interested to know what their overall record is for RC and PC.

What's the understanding of deciding the Kim and Yang team? Can this be considered subtly racist?

How about the "Old Mens League" between Phil/Furyk and Retief/Allenby? I'm looking for Gary Player to be hanging in the wings.

Haas/Watney and Ogilvy/Schwartzel. Incredibly, besides golfers, nobody knows who these guys are. Bad PR or a case of not much to promote?

How much better is Jason Day than the other 3 he's grouped with? Kuchar is the key to his side.

Bubba and Webb seem like a poker game where the jokers are wild.

Toms and Mahan got stuck with each other because they were the last 2 left after the other teams were chosen.

Mentioning the Tiger/Stevie encounter is poor journalism. Damn.

I hear the first to blink is Yang complaining the greens are too fast. I just hope for his sake the good Dr Mc hasn't heard him!!!!!

The Watson and Simpson pairing is obviously so god can concentrate his efforts on that group and gain the first point for the US.

Bit bizarre putting Allenby and Goosen together I think. Not in much form or great putters right now. Would have taken one half and paired him up with one half of Ogilvy and Schwartzel.

Would think Mahan and Toms would have been paired up with a pair of bombers. Like Haas and Watney. This is all just on paper though, who knows how close some of them are.

The rest pretty much makes sense to me.

Can see Scott and Choi getting their point. If anyone can shut out all the noise its Choi.

I see tiger will face stevie on day 1.

Mac, think the two captains wanted it out of the way. They knew that it would happen at some point and probably didnt want it only happening in the final day singles. It also gets the crowds and viewers interested early doors.

Think I will get up early a few mornings to catch the end of the days play. Dont think I'll manage avoiding the results until the evening re-runs or highlights!

Stricker and Woods' record in the past two "Cups" when partnering each other is something like 6 wins, 1 loss. But sure they'll split up for Saturday when it's likely that Stricker, at least, will take a session off. Expect DJ to pair with Tiger instead.
I've read that Haas / Watney and Simpson / Watson asked to be paired together and sounds like no-one much wanted to be paired with Phil!

Most of the International pairs were surprising to me, especially the Ogilvy / Schwartzel pair; arguably their two best players. Plus pre-tournament speculation had Jason Day with Scott - perhaps, as Lairdy says, they wanted the stoic KJ with Scott and Stevie. Maybe Andy Prodger can wind Stricker and Woods up?

Really looking forward to this - brand new bottle of Scotch to see me through the first day's entertainment. I hope.

May have missed it earlier in this thread, but thought I'd mention that the BBC are reporting that South Korea has had the nod for 2015.

Yup, I see that also Sky. Richly deserved, I'd say.
But Finchem has a bit of a problem now unless he's going to pass on South America.
I'm sure Ernie Els will want to reprise Greg Norman and Gary Player and be the Captain / Host in South Africa. If the Cup goes to, say, Argentina in 2019, Ernie would have to wait until 2023. And that is avoiding Japan until at least 2027!

KJ Choi, when he gets it going, seems unflappable. I have a hunch about him having a great PC.

No one wants to play with Phil? No surprise at all Kwini. Known in some of the professional circles as the original FIGJAM - "F, I'm Good, Just Ask Me ..."

I don't see how Striker can be effective much after such a long layoff, but, hey, surprise me.

Scotch? I like your style. An early dental appointment tomorrow will have me nursing Shirley Temples.

Tee to green Furyk must be as good a foursomes partner for Phil as anyone there, however both a bit shaky on the greens right now, even with belly putters.

I would think Mahan would be a good partner for Woods. One of the best drivers of the ball around and a good putter. They could talk about their weird little coach Foley too.

The US pairings are quite interesting, among the veterans at least. Toms once enjoyed (Belfry in 2002 I think) an excellent RC paired with Phil but they fared poorly subsequently. And it seemed as if Phil took Mahan under his wing at Royal Montreal. DJ and Phil certainly didn't do well together - looks as if Kuchar is this year's designated teammate du jour, to pair up with guys who are otherwise misfits!

Still very interested to see who will be chosen as Pres Cup Captains next time round, at Muirfield Village. Does Vijay get a turn? Then KJ Choi in Korea?? Followed by Ernie in 2017 and 2019 if it goes to S.Africa???
And who for the Americans? No obvious choice as far as I can see.

And the 2014 Ryder Cup skipper will also be a tough choice. David Toms would be my expectation, then Furyk next time round..

Lairdy wrote:Tee to green Furyk must be as good a foursomes partner for Phil as anyone there, however both a bit shaky on the greens right now, even with belly putters.

I would think Mahan would be a good partner for Woods. One of the best drivers of the ball around and a good putter. They could talk about their weird little coach Foley too.

Phil has ditched the belly putter, I didn't think it would suit him anyway certainly not with his stroke. I think Furyk phil is a good pairing. One steady and the other can make birdies.

@ Kwini, I don't understand the Els Ishikawa pairing at all, do you think they compliment one another? Why didn't they put Ryo with Jason Day instead. Greg Norman on his way to being the worst PC captain much to my delight. I detest him!

The "Shark's" criticism of Couples for choosing Woods over Bradley doesn't hold much water at the moment. What an ego. And what of his own choice of fellow Aussie Allenby over Oosthuizen? Looks downright ridiculous on paper as I type this.

But, they don't play it on paper as they say ...

Hi Keizo,
I think Shark wanted to send out an old hand (Ernie) who's familiar with the course with Ryo, principally because Ryo's flights got hosed up and he only arrived in time for one practice round. Stupid but true.
Actually I think Ernie and Ryo might complement each other well, one hits it long and straight enough and hits lots of greens, the young 'un is a genius short game artist.
A bit early to condemn Norman even if you do detest him!

Norman needs his head read for making any comment about Couples's choices. As for the International Team, the antiquated method of qualification is most to blame for its composition. Local boys Baddeley and Allenby were always going to be his choices if no-one else proved themselves and Oosthuizen's form only really warmed up after it was too late.

Lots of things look ridiculous on paper, but I personally don't think anyone on either side can have much to complain about. Except Norman who has been denied Tim Clark, the quintessential team man.

Cheers kwini.
It's a bit of an odd contest this President's Cup, isn't it... One team I assume is motivated by national pride/winning for their country, while the other... by the simple pleasure of beating up the Americans and maybe the extra publicity that comes with it!? The negatives this year for me are the whole Tiger/Williams 'joke', which was sort of intriguing at the begining, but it's been really pushed to the extremes over the past couple of days by the media, to the extent it's becoming something of a turn off. And then there are those strating times... between 2am to 3am from where I'm sitting! So, I'm afraid I won't be watching too much of it (maybe just the last couple of holes of the late starters)... On the positive side, I look forward to seeing again some action and images from that wonderful golf course...

Prediction? I think US will win it... just.

kwinigolfer wrote:Hi Keizo,
I think Shark wanted to send out an old hand (Ernie) who's familiar with the course with Ryo, principally because Ryo's flights got hosed up and he only arrived in time for one practice round. Stupid but true.
Actually I think Ernie and Ryo might complement each other well, one hits it long and straight enough and hits lots of greens, the young 'un is a genius short game artist.
A bit early to condemn Norman even if you do detest him!

Wait, I thought it was 4 balls...I just checked and it is foursomes, pls hit me on the head with a pan! In that respect I think the pairing makes sense. If it's 4 balls then Ryo+Jason would be my choice.

pd,
I'm dismayed about the tee-times, all the build up about Golf Channel showing it here in Prime Time; I didn't realise they meant only in Hawaii. Makes absolutely no sense.
First day's six matches are crucial - don't think the Internationals will be much good at recovering from an early deficit.
But fingers crossed for an International win as a US "W" could be the event's death knell.

Barry Lane and Mike Harwood are getting left behind in the Champions Tour Q-School - just a hole or two to make up their early arrears.

Oh dear - hope Barry [Lane] fares better in the final rounds.

I tried to watch him for a bit at the Senior Masters in Woburn a few months ago. It wasn't a very successful endeavour. Waited ages for his group to arrive at the tee after the last lot had trotted off out of sight. Could then only stomach about half a hole before becoming utterly frustrated at the geological pace of play (although to be fair, I think Peter Fowler was the worst offender in that threesome). I caught back up with the following group (Torrance's) and watched them finish.

After a leisurely stroll around the merchandising tents and a lunch of sausage & chips, I returned to the course albeit in reverse direction. Lane and Fowler had just about reached the 18th green. Overheard an irate spectator say something about them being 3 holes behind. Blimey.