Northampton v Scarlets

by Smirnoffpriest Tue 15 Nov - 16:22

First topic message reminder :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15725328.stm

Northampton put their seven-and-a-half year unbeaten Heineken Cup record on the line against Scarlets on Friday.

The Llanelli region were the last team to beat Saints at Franklin's Gardens when fly-half Stephen Jones kicked eight points in an 18-9 win in 2004.

The Scarlets have only won once away in their last eight European games and but Heineken Cup runners-up Northampton lost their opener this term at Munster.

Rhys Priestland could make his first Scarlets start this season.

The versatile back suffered a shoulder injury in Wales' World Cup quarter-final victory over Ireland and came on as a replacement for Stephen Jones in the Scarlets' opening European victory against Castres.

Northampton beat Llanelli at the Madejski Stadium in the 2000 Heineken Cup semi-final en route to winning the tournament.

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Should be a good game but unfortunately I can't see the Scarlets getting much out of it, hopefully a LBP. Still we can dream

by red_stag Fri 18 Nov - 22:31

Delighted by this. If Munster win tomorrow Rounds 3-4 become vital

by SubsBench Fri 18 Nov - 22:32

Well I didnt see that coming. I've been saying all week that we would do really well to get a LBP. What do I know! Fantastic result.

by maestegmafia Fri 18 Nov - 22:34

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think this was great result for Scarlets, not only winning but picking up BP and denying Saints anything as well.

They got a losing bonus point... Unfortunately. They didn't earn it or deserve it but they got it.

by Thomond Fri 18 Nov - 22:36

Great win and brilliant performance. Ashton did himself no favours with his "work" for the 4th try. You're taught from U-6s to play the whistle! Well done Scarlets. Someone said to me that the Scarlets intentionally let the Saints in for a try so they could still have something to play for and maybe hurt Munster/Castres. I found it interesting and a total crock.

by LordDowlais Fri 18 Nov - 22:40

Ashton should get a very long ban for what he did to George North, that sort of thing should be up there with gouging and stamping. What do they teach in Northampton ? All I saw was dirty tactics and off the ball incidents, and do not get me started on the scrummaging. All in all they have got what they deserved, they are cheats and bad loosers. Good job they lost, they are a bad advert for rugby union !!!! steam

by maestegmafia Fri 18 Nov - 22:42

LordDowlais wrote:Ashton should get a very long ban for what he did to George North, that sort of thing should be up there with gouging and stamping. What do they teach in Northampton ? All I saw was dirty tactics and off the ball incidents, and do not get me started on the scrummaging. All in all they have got what they deserved, they are cheats and bad loosers. Good job they lost, they are a bad advert for rugby union !!!!

Very unfortunately I could not agree with you more.

by belovedfrosties Fri 18 Nov - 22:42

Turkster wrote:I think Ashton could well be cited, very dirty off the ball incident on George North, hope it's not too serious.

Not condoning what Ashton did but it would be a shambles if he got cited for that. Unfortunate for North (hes a great player) but that sort of thing happens at least once in a game, just unlucky that he got hurt.

Seems to be a lot of hostility towards saints which I'm still a bit confused about. People saying they were lucky last year when they played some good solid stuff. Often people talk about how they were played off the park in the 2nd half against Leinster but always fail to mention that they blew them away in the first as well. Someone saying that their luck ran out today, well it didn't really (though some decisions by the ref were awful, for both sides, that yellow card against scarlets, the penalty for northampton after you scored from Pisis man sausage up, not to mention the missed offside and knock on for Scarlets second try) we played shockingly bad. I'm very worried about Hartley, just hasn't seemed up to it recently (for england as well where Thompson was clearly the better option) and our centres are too average at this level.

Plus points are that I thought Lamb was decent, good kicks mostly (hit the post that eventually led to a scarlets try) but nailed 1 from the touchline, passed well and kicked out of hand well. Wood was great, seemed like the only player that thought we could get back into the game, everyone elses head just dropped. He showed the same never say die attitude when England were getting destroyed against Ireland in the 6N, I'd prefer him to Hartley as captain and would be pleased to see him get the chance to captain england. Not even going to talk about pisi.

All is not lost, just bonus point wins from here on in and it should be alright......

by yappysnap Fri 18 Nov - 22:44

Well done Scarlets.

Dismantled Saints across the pitch. Playing like that It'd be a travesty for you not to make the play offs and in Priestland you have to have the best NH flyhalf in the comp.

As to the Saints? Well last season any one who looked past 5 key players saw they had a pretty average team especially in the backrow and centres, fly half is still an issue too. Untill they get a centre who is comfortable playing ball in hand and passing, and another wing that can actually catch as well as a quality fly half who can own the game they aren't going to win chuff all.

Once again well done Scarlets a frickin awesome performance.

by Thomond Fri 18 Nov - 22:46

I think Johnny Sexton might have something to say about that Yappy. Rhys is up there though and could may well be.

by yappysnap Fri 18 Nov - 22:48

Sorry guys what's all this Northampton are a dirty team business? from what i saw it was two very hyped up teams going hammer and tong and BOTH sides took it too far at times.

Penalties were going either way and dangerous play was pinged against each pack. Seemed 50/50 the whole match through.

Scarlets were the better team on the night but lets not start a witch hunt as well, it comes across as very unsavoury and is a shame after such a good game.

by yappysnap Fri 18 Nov - 22:49

Thomond wrote:I think Johnny Sexton might have something to say about that Yappy. Rhys is up there though and could may well be.

True true, he's another disgustingly talented youngster. As an Englishman it's enough to make me weep.

Still we have Cips at least...

by ME-109 Fri 18 Nov - 22:53

Cheap shots were coming from saints. Lawes as usual doesnt know the law for using his arms when tackling or clearing rucks...is very good ar hitting prone players

by maestegmafia Fri 18 Nov - 22:54

belovedfrosties wrote:

Not condoning what Ashton did but it would be a shambles if he got cited for that. Unfortunate for North (hes a great player) but that sort of thing happens at least once in a game, just unlucky that he got hurt.

No that was vindictive and dirty play off the ball. It was a long the lines of what ruined Ken Catchpoles career.

He was trying to injure not to clear a player away. He should be cited and serve a decent ban for that. Above poster said the same, what he did was as bad as gouging.

belovedfrosties wrote:
Seems to be a lot of hostility towards saints which I'm still a bit confused about. People saying they were lucky last year when they played some good solid stuff. Often people talk about how they were played off the park in the 2nd half against Leinster but always fail to mention that they blew them away in the first as well. Someone saying that their luck ran out today, well it didn't really (though some decisions by the ref were awful, for both sides, that yellow card against scarlets, the penalty for northampton after you scored from Pisis man sausage up, not to mention the missed offside and knock on for Scarlets second try) we played shockingly bad. I'm very worried about Hartley, just hasn't seemed up to it recently (for england as well where Thompson was clearly the better option) and our centres are too average at this level.

The hostility towards saints is most likely because they get away with murder, at scrums and off the ball. There should be several other citings for awful off the ball behaviour, particularly the highlighted grabbing Gareth Davies by the scruff of the neck, kicking him at rucks and the punches and elbows went in when Lawes was pulled in the line out.

belovedfrosties wrote:
Plus points are that I thought Lamb was decent, good kicks mostly (hit the post that eventually led to a scarlets try) but nailed 1 from the touchline, passed well and kicked out of hand well. Wood was great, seemed like the only player that thought we could get back into the game, everyone elses head just dropped. He showed the same never say die attitude when England were getting destroyed against Ireland in the 6N, I'd prefer him to Hartley as captain and would be pleased to see him get the chance to captain england. Not even going to talk about pisi.

Lamb had an awful game, not helped by how poor Dixon is. Wood was good, Roberts too when he came on.

belovedfrosties wrote:
All is not lost, just bonus point wins from here on in and it should be alright......

good luck with that...

I would ope saints work hard on their rugby and not on their awful off the ball rubbish.

by maestegmafia Fri 18 Nov - 22:55

yappysnap wrote:Sorry guys what's all this Northampton are a dirty team business? from what i saw it was two very hyped up teams going hammer and tong and BOTH sides took it too far at times.

Penalties were going either way and dangerous play was pinged against each pack. Seemed 50/50 the whole match through.

Scarlets were the better team on the night but lets not start a witch hunt as well, it comes across as very unsavoury and is a shame after such a good game.

No you are wrong.

Saints were appalling.

Watch the game again. Sky sports highlighted a great deal of it.

by yappysnap Fri 18 Nov - 22:59

What did Saints do?

by maestegmafia Fri 18 Nov - 23:05

yappysnap wrote:What did Saints do?

Ashton tried to break George norths leg while North was pinned at a ruck, North went off immediately.

Hartly had Gareth Davies by the scruff of us neck behind the refs back for about a minute.

When Lawes was pulled down by Edwards in the line out saints effectively improvised their own petty version of the 99 call and started hitting everyone.

As well as all the niggly nastiness and pathetic unsportsmanlike like behaviour after play had finished, only once did they get marched back ten.

They were an bsolute disgrace...! Really let their fans down.

by LordDowlais Fri 18 Nov - 23:10

North will miss most of the season before Christmas and possibly some of the new year also after what I saw, and looking at how he was helped from the pitch I will be surprised if she make the six nations squad as well. I hope Ashton is proud of himself. Also what was he trying to do ? and what are they teaching them at Northampton ? The whole lot need to be looked at as they are bringing the game into disrepute !!!! steam

by munkian Fri 18 Nov - 23:20

Lawes looked like a sulky child going back into the dressing room, didn't clap the Scarlets like the rest of his team, just stomped off to his Mum.

Who was the crazy old Blonde screaming at the ref from the sidelines, someone told me it was Ashton's Mum but I'm taking that with a pinch of salt Wink

by maestegmafia Fri 18 Nov - 23:23

munkian wrote:Lawes looked like a sulky child going back into the dressing room, didn't clap the Scarlets like the rest of his team, just stomped off to his Mum.

Who was the crazy old Blonde screaming at the ref from the sidelines, someone told me it was Ashton's Mum but I'm taking that with a pinch of salt

Looked a lot like him, petulant, stroppy, annoying and thinks you shout your defence rather than tackle.

by Morgannwg Fri 18 Nov - 23:24

Didn't this guy who was going to redefine wing play get skinned by Shingler?

by wales606 Fri 18 Nov - 23:32

Morgannwg wrote:Didn't this guy who was going to redefine wing play get skinned by Shingler?

Yep

And shrugged off by the no20

by Guest Fri 18 Nov - 23:34

Munster will be hard very hard,
they are a real team not like the fairy English mediocre rubbish who can't handle pressure.

Munster love pressure,it makes them play better,
Scarlets can't make as many mistakes as they did tonight because a real team like Munster will punish you big time.

Saints are one of the most over hyped teams in world rugby,along with its over hyped Ashton ,Hartley and Lawes.

by Morgannwg Fri 18 Nov - 23:44

With you on those 3 view, Hartley and Lawes in particular. Nothing but a pair of pre- madonna's...

by Turkster Fri 18 Nov - 23:55

c'mon lads, it's a man's game you know, I'm sure the Scarlets forwards were winding up the NH forwards off the ball too, shame if a good win just starts off 10 pages of arguing, it looked like a high-tension pressurised no-holds-barred game, it's what the HEC is all about. (apart from what happened to George North of course)

by Guest Sat 19 Nov - 0:00

Off to bed now lads im knackered,i missed going to the gym tonight for this game and im so glad i got to watch it,well done Scarlets and thanks for the links lads,
sweet dreams Yahoo

by flyhalffactory Sat 19 Nov - 0:00

SubsBench wrote:Well I didnt see that coming. I've been saying all week that we would do really well to get a LBP. What do I know! Fantastic result.

I don't want to blow my own trumpet but BARRRRRRRPPPPPP drumroll

I was one of the few (if the only one) who thought that the Scarlets would win............ I particularly like Welch, Shingler and Jon Edwards is a very under-rated player, along with that Timani fellow, they stood up well (sorry only Hartley did that the cheating beggar) thumbsdown

Where's beshocked and Ozzy Smile

by slartibartfast Sat 19 Nov - 0:44

beshocked wrote:True some of my views can be a bit blinkered maestegmafia. Yes I do occasionally underestimate sides. That makes me look foolish when I am wrong though doesnt it?

I know a lot more about the Aviva Premiership sides than I do the Celtic League sides.

I personally find it harder to respect some Celtic League sides when they don't get into the HC on merit. They just automatically qualify whereas the French and English sides have to fight tooth and nail throughout the season.

Some sides in the HC have an artificially high ERC ranking including Biarritz which I think is wrong. I want Saracens to make a mockery of that system (well more than it is already). I hope they will.

You will have every right to tell me I am wrong if Saracens lose this weekend and don't top the pool.

they do get in on merit though - that's why the dragons are only in the amlin , they finished "bottom"- so what you on about?

by Gibson Sat 19 Nov - 1:01

Excellent win by Scarlets. WBP in Franklyn Gardens. Brilliant. They were ruthless and scooped up every chance they got. Defended like demons when they really needed to. Great HC rugby.

Saints, were a shambles. And after just 2 rounds, could be out of it? Good LBP in the end? At home? Not good.

It's between Scarlets and Munster now.

I see Munster & Saints fighting it out for the Amlin.

by flyhalffactory Sat 19 Nov - 1:03

Slartibartfast

You'll find beshocked does make some statements that you have to blink to see if its real or what!!!

At the end of the day doesnt matter about rankings...... the best team will beat the teams put before them and prgress to the next round and then the best team will beat all before them and become champs

by Gibson Sat 19 Nov - 1:07

flyhalffactory wrote:Slartibartfast

You'll find beshocked does make some statements that you have to blink to see if its real or what!!!

At the end of the day doesnt matter about rankings...... the best team will beat the teams put before them and prgress to the next round and then the best team will beat all before them and become champs

That's about the size of it.
guinness

by Standulstermen Sat 19 Nov - 2:59

what exactly did ashton do to North? I was working and didnt really see the last 10. Saw his pathetic work for the last try mind you. Mallinder will go through him for that i should wager.

by Breadvan Sat 19 Nov - 5:57

DOD wrote:Cheap shots were coming from saints. Lawes as usual doesnt know the law for using his arms when tackling or clearing rucks...is very good ar hitting prone players

by Breadvan Sat 19 Nov - 6:04

Good game and a great win for the Scarlets. Missed the end so didn't see any 'cheapshots'. Predictable to see the usual crowd on here having a pop at certain players... Rolling Eyes

by munkian Sat 19 Nov - 7:22

Predictable to see the usual player having a pop at prone players you mean.

How can you judge people for commenting on something you didn't see
?

by Breadvan Sat 19 Nov - 7:41

Its not what happened on the pitch that bothers me tbh. The usual trio (Lawes,Ashton, Hartley) could do nothing but still get grief. They're easy targets for the usual suspects on here. Oh, and its club rugby. What the deuce does it matter what league/country a team play in?? Headscratch

by munkian Sat 19 Nov - 7:46

Fair enough but they DID do something.

I don't think I mentioned their International backgrounds ?

by Breadvan Sat 19 Nov - 8:07

Yeh and they should be dealt with. No, you didn't mention the int backgrounds. Just making a point but blimey, There's some talent at Gatlands dispossal eh?

by munkian Sat 19 Nov - 8:13

Yes , things seems to be working at the regional development level Smile

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 19 Nov - 8:15

Breadvan wrote:Its not what happened on the pitch that bothers me tbh. The usual trio (Lawes,Ashton, Hartley) could do nothing but still get grief. They're easy targets for the usual suspects on here. Oh, and its club rugby. What the deuce does it matter what league/country a team play in??

Well said, but unfortunately a lot of posters on here don't see past their national bias even in club rugby!
Ironically & thankfully this contrasts with a lot of supporters I meet personally at games & players themselves.

by maestegmafia Sat 19 Nov - 8:42

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Breadvan wrote:Its not what happened on the pitch that bothers me tbh. The usual trio (Lawes,Ashton, Hartley) could do nothing but still get grief. They're easy targets for the usual suspects on here. Oh, and its club rugby. What the deuce does it matter what league/country a team play in??

Well said, but unfortunately a lot of posters on here don't see past their national bias even in club rugby!
Ironically & thankfully this contrasts with a lot of supporters I meet personally at games & players themselves.

Sorry lads but the way Northampton played was not rugby. The niggley stuff like any opportunity to stamp on a player, kick him, punch him throw a ball away, leaving a firm shoulder is all part of the game, in little doses. Not at any god given opportunity.

But worse was the behaviour of Hartley and Ashton in particular, Sky Sports Highlighted Hartley clearly grabbing Gareth Davies by the scruff of the neck for a good while behind the refs back, Ashton Grabbing Norths leg and pulling it upwards against the way his body is pined down.

None of that is part of the game, any more than gouging or spear tackling.

Very good to see a young side like Scarlets not react in the same way.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 19 Nov - 8:45

maestegmafia wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Breadvan wrote:Its not what happened on the pitch that bothers me tbh. The usual trio (Lawes,Ashton, Hartley) could do nothing but still get grief. They're easy targets for the usual suspects on here. Oh, and its club rugby. What the deuce does it matter what league/country a team play in??

Well said, but unfortunately a lot of posters on here don't see past their national bias even in club rugby!
Ironically & thankfully this contrasts with a lot of supporters I meet personally at games & players themselves.

Sorry lads but the way Northampton played was not rugby. The niggley stuff like any opportunity to stamp on a player, kick him, punch him throw a ball away, leaving a firm shoulder is all part of the game, in little doses. Not at any god given opportunity.

Scarlett's aren't Saints

But worse was the behaviour of Hartley and Ashton in particular, Sky Sports Highlighted Hartley clearly grabbing Gareth Davies by the scruff of the neck for a good while behind the refs back, Ashton Grabbing Norths leg and pulling it upwards against the way his body is pined down.

None of that is part of the game, any more than gouging or spear tackling.

Very good to see a young side like Scarlets not react in the same way.

by Knackeredknees Sat 19 Nov - 9:27

maestegmafia wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Breadvan wrote:Its not what happened on the pitch that bothers me tbh. The usual trio (Lawes,Ashton, Hartley) could do nothing but still get grief. They're easy targets for the usual suspects on here. Oh, and its club rugby. What the deuce does it matter what league/country a team play in??

Well said, but unfortunately a lot of posters on here don't see past their national bias even in club rugby!
Ironically & thankfully this contrasts with a lot of supporters I meet personally at games & players themselves.

Sorry lads but the way Northampton played was not rugby. The niggley stuff like any opportunity to stamp on a player, kick him, punch him throw a ball away, leaving a firm shoulder is all part of the game, in little doses. Not at any god given opportunity.

But worse was the behaviour of Hartley and Ashton in particular, Sky Sports Highlighted Hartley clearly grabbing Gareth Davies by the scruff of the neck for a good while behind the refs back, Ashton Grabbing Norths leg and pulling it upwards against the way his body is pined down.

None of that is part of the game, any more than gouging or spear tackling.

Very good to see a young side like Scarlets not react in the same way.

Maestagemafia
I've not seen the game yet (sky+) for later when i get in from playing away today
But before you get on the high horse and having a go at these players inparticular Astons, can you hand on heart say that no Welsh/Scarlet/anyother team in the world has not had a player do the same?
I'm sue if you googled it you would find plenty of pics of player doing the same( i take it it North in a ruck and Aston picked his legs up?) so please stop the national bias in picking on only English players as i'm sure some of the Scarlet lads wern't whiter than white last night.

Enjoy the win, and look forward to a possible 1/4 final spot

by swooptoconquer Sat 19 Nov - 9:41

Ashton is a petulant child of a man. Hartley cant scrummage without standing up and then sticking his head into his opposite number and Lawes is just plain dirty. The reason they have a reputation is that it is thoroughly deserved

by Knackeredknees Sat 19 Nov - 9:45

swooptoconquer wrote:Ashton is a petulant child of a man. Hartley cant scrummage without standing up and then sticking his head into his opposite number and Lawes is just plain dirty. The reason they have a reputation is that it is thoroughly deserved

Really then the only people that give them this reputation is some posters on here who no matter what they did would bad mouth them because they are English
*edit better say Kiwi as well before thats thrown around as well

by maestegmafia Sat 19 Nov - 9:54

Knackered knees

Good luck with your match today, nice afternoon for it.

This is nothing to do with where a player is from or who they play for it is about how they conduct themselves on the pitch.

Hartley was regularly doing plenty of unnecessary work, plenty of unlike able work. No it is not the first time and no it is not a select bunch of posters who point it out...!

Ashtons behaviour at the end of the match with George North was appalling.

Watch the game enjoy the good bits but saints candour will make you cringe.

by maestegmafia Sat 19 Nov - 9:55

Knackeredknees wrote:
swooptoconquer wrote:Ashton is a petulant child of a man. Hartley cant scrummage without standing up and then sticking his head into his opposite number and Lawes is just plain dirty. The reason they have a reputation is that it is thoroughly deserved

Really then the only people that give them this reputation is some posters on here who no matter what they did would bad mouth them because they are English
*edit better say Kiwi as well before thats thrown around as well

Give it a bloody rest...!

You are way off the mark.

by Knackeredknees Sat 19 Nov - 9:57

Maestag
I wish i could but its against a team who are unofficialy semi-pro so i think i'm going to be on the wrong end of a thumping

by Breadvan Sat 19 Nov - 9:57

maestegmafia wrote:
Knackeredknees wrote:
swooptoconquer wrote:Ashton is a petulant child of a man. Hartley cant scrummage without standing up and then sticking his head into his opposite number and Lawes is just plain dirty. The reason they have a reputation is that it is thoroughly deserved

Really then the only people that give them this reputation is some posters on here who no matter what they did would bad mouth them because they are English
*edit better say Kiwi as well before thats thrown around as well

Give it a bloody rest...!

You are way off the mark.

He's right! 100% spot on!

by slartibartfast Sat 19 Nov - 10:16

I don't understand how refs don't penalise heartily more for standing up. it happens when he plays for england. This is not about pressure this is about his technique.

Why wasn't ashton penailised for taking Norths legs - he had no right to, you're supposed to drive people off the ball not pulll at them. Can you imagine the fuss if it was Lee Byrne that had done that to ashton?

Anyway - scrappy game, Saints were undone by pace and their own errors.

I really believe that Saints trying to get a penalty at every scrum is upsetting their back row play - when they did get the ball out quick their back row made yards.

by Knackeredknees Sat 19 Nov - 10:30

slartibartfast
Trouble is you see it happen 10+ times in a game by everyone

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